Reason behind NHLers switching to a Kenesky C&A?

[jeff da goalie]

On 11/30/2018 at 2:24 PM, TheGoalNet said:

I think it's safe to say if you are looking to buy a bespoke custom C&A, Passau and Brown have a new competitor. The question is... How well do they do in the NHL long term?

I'm not sure it's safe to say that.  Other than the one guy who scored the Anderson unit on this board, no beer leaguer has one.  All of the units so far have been custom made with non-adjustable strapping.  One of the things I love about Passau is the adjustability.  We haven't seen a Kenesky with those features.  we've seen what looks like beautiful, NHL compliant custom made chesties that look like a P1, but we haven't seen them in the wild yet.  Yes, Kenesky is getting a ton of noise on pages like this and GGSU, but so was the Brian's Optik chesty until people started getting them and all of a sudden there were a ton up for sale.

I mean no disrespect to Kenesky.  I think it will be great if there is another option as much as I love Passau, I think competition is always good.  But this is otherwise like all the rage when Tesla first came out and everyone was telling us how great it was even though nobody had actually driven one.  

[estogoalie]

On 11/24/2018 at 4:04 AM, TheGoalNet said:

Baseball juiced the balls... 

C'mon, somebody gotta make a "yo mama" joke here, this is low-hanging fruit...

[Obiwanjabroni]

1 hour ago, jeff da goalie said:

I'm not sure it's safe to say that.  Other than the one guy who scored the Anderson unit on this board, no beer leaguer has one.  All of the units so far have been custom made with non-adjustable strapping.  One of the things I love about Passau is the adjustability.  We haven't seen a Kenesky with those features.  we've seen what looks like beautiful, NHL compliant custom made chesties that look like a P1, but we haven't seen them in the wild yet.  Yes, Kenesky is getting a ton of noise on pages like this and GGSU, but so was the Brian's Optik chesty until people started getting them and all of a sudden there were a ton up for sale.

I mean no disrespect to Kenesky.  I think it will be great if there is another option as much as I love Passau, I think competition is always good.  But this is otherwise like all the rage when Tesla first came out and everyone was telling us how great it was even though nobody had actually driven one.  

I have a placeholder for one right now. Once I get it and use it for a bit I'll post a review with some picture.

[TheGoalNet]

2 hours ago, jeff da goalie said:

I'm not sure it's safe to say that.  Other than the one guy who scored the Anderson unit on this board, no beer leaguer has one.  All of the units so far have been custom made with non-adjustable strapping.  One of the things I love about Passau is the adjustability.  We haven't seen a Kenesky with those features.  we've seen what looks like beautiful, NHL compliant custom made chesties that look like a P1, but we haven't seen them in the wild yet.  Yes, Kenesky is getting a ton of noise on pages like this and GGSU, but so was the Brian's Optik chesty until people started getting them and all of a sudden there were a ton up for sale.

I mean no disrespect to Kenesky.  I think it will be great if there is another option as much as I love Passau, I think competition is always good.  But this is otherwise like all the rage when Tesla first came out and everyone was telling us how great it was even though nobody had actually driven one.  

Fair points... to be clear, I think they will offer tons of custom options compared to CCM, Bauer or Vaughn. I’m sure they’ll make it as heavy duty as you want 

Thats why I say it’s safe to say there might be some more competition 

[jeff da goalie]

20 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

Fair points... to be clear, I think they will offer tons of custom options compared to CCM, Bauer or Vaughn. I’m sure they’ll make it as heavy duty as you want 

Thats why I say it’s safe to say there might be some more competition 

I saw a discussion on FB over whether they'd offer old spec floaters and one of the Kenesky guys said no.  Contrast that with Passau saying that they'd make a more streamlined chesty at a customer's request.  (God knows why, I play beer league, i want every advantage I can get!)

Again, I wish them much success, but I'm waiting to see what happens.  For example, I was an early jumper on the Passau bandwagon until I got my Gen 1 chesty.  Hated, hated, hated it.  (Loved their gloves.)  But when they retooled it, the Gen 2 became my favorite.  So, pics and press are nice, but I'm just waiting for some real world experience.

[aircanuck]

Just tried on the Kenesky Pro chest protector today and I may have tried to sneak it out of the shop underneath my christmas sweater. I liked it that much, deposit given! Range of movement was outstanding and felt very natural on my body. Love those magnetic clips. Will not get caught up in the chin of my mask when someone sets up shop behind the net. Purchase was a no brainer.

[Naz]

On 11/30/2018 at 11:24 AM, TheGoalNet said:

Luongo used it for a bit and went back to his CCM.

Ward is not using his.

From what I can tell, it seems like those who were using the P1 and not the Premier are the guys sticking with Kenesky. This would be Holtby and Khodobin off the top of my head. I am fascinated with this story and will continue to monitor who actually switches and who does not.

I think it's safe to say if you are looking to buy a bespoke custom C&A, Passau and Brown have a new competitor. The question is... How well do they do in the NHL long term?

Noticed in the Canucks/Panthers game last night that Luongo is using his Kenesky, will try to find pics

[cwarnar]

45 minutes ago, Naz said:

Noticed in the Canucks/Panthers game last night that Luongo is using his Kenesky, will try to find pics

Stolen from GGSU

[Chenner29]

Bringing this thread back up based on a conversation I had recently with Mike:

1. These things are a pain in the ass to make.  Lots of labor involved. 
2. Units are custom, not stock cut and paste to fit.  Provide desired chest length and arm length.
3. Based on the Craig Anderson and Ryan Miller units, some pretty robust custom options are available.
   1. Side note: Anderson returned his unit as he felt there was too much protection.
4. These units are actually thicker than the original P1 in the belly and ribs.  1/4" extra HD foam layer on top.

My custom specs:

21.5" arms, 7 rows of belly blocks (based on P1 dimensions) - I think this equates roughly to an XL body.
Velcro adjustment tabs over shoulders for shoulder height, collar height
Fight strap on backplate for tie down
All nylon back straps (no elastic)
Belly tie down on both inside and outside
Padding under forearm on glove side
Soft/thin foam on bottom 2" at wrist velcro for mobility.  Nash on the underside of this for grip

[estogoalie]

2 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

1. Side note: Anderson returned his unit as he felt there was too much protection.

So then he enjoys getting bruised? Most goalies are complaining they don't enjoy the bruises with the new CA rules.

...or should I interpret the "too much protection" in another way, like "lack of mobility"?

[beansbats]

I am the guy with the returned Anderson unit, and I do love it.  No stingers to this point and great mobility.  Too protective?  I don't know what that means.

-steve

PS - I do intend to update my review when I can get my act together.

[Chenner29]

4 hours ago, estogoalie said:

So then he enjoys getting bruised? Most goalies are complaining they don't enjoy the bruises with the new CA rules.

...or should I interpret the "too much protection" in another way, like "lack of mobility"?

I believe he’s been wearing a Vaughn unit up to this point if he hasn’t gone back. He probably went down to a more typical front block configuration of 1/4” HD foam + LD foam. 

[TheGoalNet]

4 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

I believe he’s been wearing a Vaughn unit up to this point if he hasn’t gone back. He probably went down to a more typical front block configuration of 1/4” HD foam + LD foam. 

I also am somewhat skeptical there might be some salesmanship involved in Kenesky's answer around Anderson. Why didn't Craig get a new one with more traditional padding? From what I can tell, he is still in Vaughn.

Kenesky C&As are a crazy sleeper hit and one of the most interesting things to happen to goalie equipment since VH skates.

Now that the dust has settled though, it feels like they basically only converted guys who were loyal to P1. CCM did not make a P1 new spec and Kenesky grabbed a market niche. They also have a couple guys using the arms, but not the body. I point this out because, in my opinion, they over promoted themselves at the start of the season. They didn't get lots of goalies out of CCM Premier, Vaughn, etc

By contrast, corporate CCM did NOT promote Quick trying there gear 2 years ago, Bauer didn't say anything Howard testing their gear last season, etc etc.

With every goalie forced to get a new C&A this year, people were open to trying lots of things. Halak and Fleury both tried at least 3 different units?

@Chenner29 - There is clearly a ton of demand for these. Does Kenesky  have plans to add people or something to actually maximize their opportunity and get over the "these are hard to make" challenge?

[stackem30]

@Chenner29 Very curious myself — I just emailed Mike @ Kenesky about one, but I'd like to hear about your experience.

[Chenner29]

2 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

I also am somewhat skeptical there might be some salesmanship involved in Kenesky's answer around Anderson. Why didn't Craig get a new one with more traditional padding? From what I can tell, he is still in Vaughn.

Perfectly fair statement.  They are the small guy trying to break into a pretty tightly controlled market.
As far as I know, Anderson had a second one built for him, but he probably went back to his Vaughn.

2 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

By contrast, corporate CCM did NOT promote Quick trying there gear 2 years ago, Bauer didn't say anything Howard testing their gear last season, etc etc.

Sure, and on the flip side, Bauer didn't promote when they took Vasi out of Brian's or Andersen out of CCM, or Ward out of Vaughn - they have kept and continue to serve these guys.

From what I know of Mike, he is very passionate about breaking into the league and getting his brand on the players.  Maybe he jumped the gun a bit, but I can't find fault in that.  I'd be pretty jazzed if a product I was a part of building or designing made it to the league.

2 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

@Chenner29 - There is clearly a ton of demand for these. Does Kenesky  have plans to add people or something to actually maximize their opportunity and get over the "these are hard to make" challenge?

Not my fish to fry, sir.
They are located in part of Ontario where a lot of pad manufacturers and repair facilities are (Brown, Battram, Brian's, Vaughn Canada; I think Brian Heaton's old plant was near there too) so they certainly have access to the type of work force that they need.
I'd imagine the biggest challenge for a small guy is the funding to make dies.

[Chenner29]

2 hours ago, stackem30 said:

@Chenner29 Very curious myself — I just emailed Mike @ Kenesky about one, but I'd like to hear about your experience.

Sorry, I missed this.  What questions did you have?  I don't have my chest pad yet

[stackem30]

30 minutes ago, Chenner29 said:

 From what I know of Mike, he is very passionate about breaking into the league and getting his brand on the players.  Maybe he jumped the gun a bit, but I can't find fault in that.  I'd be pretty jazzed if a product I was a part of building or designing made it to the league.

@TheGoalNet I wouldn't say Kenesky overplayed their hand — it's a totally different ballgame for a smaller player like them to get their name out there! Comparing them to CCM or Bauer is a moot point — look at what those companies are worth, how many employees they have, the ads they run, the events they sponsor... CCM is the largest hockey brand in the world, of course they don't need to promote the fact that Quick tried their gear. You cannot expect them to have the same standards as to what's promotion-worthy as a small shop like Kenesky. Apples and oranges.

The fact the NHL guys are wearing — or even trying out — Kenesky gear is a major boon to a business of their size, and adds a whole level of credibility to a brand that most goalies haven't even heard of. You don't see NHL guys trying out Battram, Simmons, or McKenney — but they tried out Kenesky, and plenty of them are still wearing the brand. In a lot of people's minds, that will catapult Kenesky to the top of the list of the non-major goalie brands (I think they belong there anyway, but that's from my own experience with them). Besides, when you're talking about an under-the-jersey item that 99.99999% of fans will never notice or see, you kind of have to take matters into your own hands and tell people that goalies are wearing them.

Ultimately, the guy had a new product that looked great, and was garnering a lot of interest from the highest professionals in the world. What small business is not going to want to promote that?

@Chenner29 I'll just DM you, it's fairly specific.

[TheGoalNet]

1 hour ago, Chenner29 said:

Perfectly fair statement.  They are the small guy trying to break into a pretty tightly controlled market.
As far as I know, Anderson had a second one built for him, but he probably went back to his Vaughn.

Sure, and on the flip side, Bauer didn't promote when they took Vasi out of Brian's or Andersen out of CCM, or Ward out of Vaughn - they have kept and continue to serve these guys.

From what I know of Mike, he is very passionate about breaking into the league and getting his brand on the players.  Maybe he jumped the gun a bit, but I can't find fault in that.  I'd be pretty jazzed if a product I was a part of building or designing made it to the league.

Not my fish to fry, sir.
They are located in part of Ontario where a lot of pad manufacturers and repair facilities are (Brown, Battram, Brian's, Vaughn Canada; I think Brian Heaton's old plant was near there too) so they certainly have access to the type of work force that they need.
I'd imagine the biggest challenge for a small guy is the funding to make dies.

Good point on being aggressive! Can’t blame the Kenesky team there. Not trying to be negative, just fuctual about how things ended up 

Will be most interesting to see if they can parlay any of the C&A success into more gear. 

For the size of Kenesky, it’s probably amazing they have more than 1 guy using their unit. Overall, it’s a fun story to watch 

[Chenner29]

4 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

For the size of Kenesky, it’s probably amazing they have more than 1 guy using their unit. Overall, it’s a fun story to watch  

True, for all the love Passau gets from us "normies," they have yet to get an NHL pro to stick in one of their chesties. 
Disclaimer: Not firing salvos here at anyone, just an observation.

[RichMan]

2 hours ago, stackem30 said:

@TheGoalNet I wouldn't say Kenesky overplayed their hand — it's a totally different ballgame for a smaller player like them to get their name out there! Comparing them to CCM or Bauer is a moot point — look at what those companies are worth, how many employees they have, the ads they run, the events they sponsor... CCM is the largest hockey brand in the world, of course they don't need to promote the fact that Quick tried their gear. You cannot expect them to have the same standards as to what's promotion-worthy as a small shop like Kenesky. Apples and oranges.

The fact the NHL guys are wearing — or even trying out — Kenesky gear is a major boon to a business of their size, and adds a whole level of credibility to a brand that most goalies haven't even heard of. You don't see NHL guys trying out Battram, Simmons, or McKenney — but they tried out Kenesky, and plenty of them are still wearing the brand. In a lot of people's minds, that will catapult Kenesky to the top of the list of the non-major goalie brands (I think they belong there anyway, but that's from my own experience with them). Besides, when you're talking about an under-the-jersey item that 99.99999% of fans will never notice or see, you kind of have to take matters into your own hands and tell people that goalies are wearing them.

Ultimately, the guy had a new product that looked great, and was garnering a lot of interest from the highest professionals in the world. What small business is not going to want to promote that?

@Chenner29 I'll just DM you, it's fairly specific.

Franklin gear, Grant Fuhr

[stackem30]

1 hour ago, RichMan said:

Franklin gear, Grant Fuhr

Ha, true! From the driveway to the St. Louis crease...

I did forget all about Passau in my post, they also seem to be on the high-end of the 'mid-level' spectrum (I only say mid-level based on the company/brand, not the quality). For the purpose of this discussion, I guess I assume we all consider CCM, Bauer, Vaughn, and Brian's to be the big names.

[TheGoalNet]

2 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

True, for all the love Passau gets from us "normies," they have yet to get an NHL pro to stick in one of their chesties. 
Disclaimer: Not firing salvos here at anyone, just an observation.

Really good point actually 

@RichMan - exactly, anyone can get 1

PS - I think your buddies as McKenney made that for Franklin 

[TitanG]

18 minutes ago, stackem30 said:

...I assume we all consider CCM, Bauer, Vaughn, and Brian's to be the big names.

And Warrior too? They're a weird case in that the pros certainly use their sticks, just not much else, but on the player side are considered equal to the other big brands. I would argue that Warrior is not a big name for anything other than sticks on the goalie side because they only have pros in Europe and lower level leagues and not the NHL, much like some European companies like Miklin or M4G.

[stackem30]

3 minutes ago, TitanG said:

And Warrior too? They're a weird case in that the pros certainly use their sticks, just not much else, but on the player side are considered equal to the other big brands. I would argue that Warrior is not a big name for anything other than sticks on the goalie side because they only have pros in Europe and lower level leagues and not the NHL, much like some European companies like Miklin or M4G.

"Yes" to everything you said — Warrior's a big brand, so they definitely belong with the big names... but we all know they're pretty much just sticks at the NHL level.

[RichMan]

8 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

Really good point actually 

@RichMan - exactly, anyone can get 1

PS - I think your buddies as McKenney made that for Franklin 

That was the point