Kids playing goal in Novice (poor lil bastards)

[Lucky Pucker]

We signed my almost-7 year old up for organized hockey this fall. Having never played organized hockey myself, there's a lot of new stuff we're encountering. I volunteered to be an on-ice helper for practices, as it beats sitting around in the stands. (Side note: MAN, do player skates ever feel weird now; takes me a few rounds of the rink to remember how to skate like a mediocre skater... don't know how you guys who regularly switch back-and-forth do it)

So far, so good! Good coaches, decent parents. My kid is probably around the bottom, but there's no quit in him, and he grins at me every time he awkwardly skates by. Oh, and he has shown no interest in being a goalie (I always knew he was smarter than his old man - lol!)

As we prepare for the first game, it was announced that players will take turns being goalie, as there is no "full time goalie" at this level - which I knew. But, man - my heart aches for these kids when it's their turn. Some, I'm sure, won't be bothered by it, but I'm afraid some might.

While I haven't volunteered or been asked to help with the position (I'm pretty much a noob myself), my mind is racing about how to make it survivable for the poor kid who is in net. I saw at the sort out sessions some parents trying to show some basic skills and stuff, but silently disagreed with what I was seeing, as I don't think the point here is to teach proper foundation-building technique to kids that might never play the position again. I keep thinking things like:

"skaters at this level can barely lift the puck, so why not get the kid playing goalie to over-use paddle down, and get an ego boost at having some pucks hit them instead of the back of the net?"

""at this age, being down and not getting up as a goalie is not verboten the way it is for adult goalies; it's not like a 7 year old has a 6-ft reach to shovel the puck around and past the squirt in the pads"

"Is there really any point to have the team's goalie stick shaft at normal length? No 7 year old is gonna slide the blocker up the shaft for a poke-check, or fire off a break out pass. Wouldn't cutting it down a bit make it easier for the kid to handle...? I mean if Price can do it..."

My concern is not that I want to make the kid who is playing goal tactically and technically proficient; I just want them to do better than a player standing there without pads would do, and maybe save them some embarrassment - or even cultivate a bit of enjoyment, and even pride. Having just started this position myself as a well-informed adult, I found it devastatingly hard the first few times out, and a real test of character. I wouldn't wish that on a poor 7 year old kid.

Any thoughts or experience with this? Am I over-thinking and worrying for nothing?

[stackem30]

I think you're overthinking it a bit (and I am a chronic over-thinker). One of the cool thing about kids is how unaffected they can be when it comes to being discouraged or embarrassed. I have a feeling you are projecting some of your own worries/fears onto your kid (totally normal and understandable). In all likelihood, a 7 year-old is not going to have his ego damaged by how well he plays in goal, especially when it's just his turn in a team rotation. The newness of the position and the challenge of trying to stop goals is probably fun/interesting enough as it is.

Goalie is a hard position to pick up. You're going to feel pretty helpless, and you're not going to be any good at it. But again, the mind of a child is an asset in this case. I was 10 when I started playing in goal, and I was already a pretty self-conscious kid. I was also likely far more cognizant of failure, or my own inability to play the position than a 7 year-old... but I don't remember any of that. I was just having fun "bEiNg a GoAliE!!!", wearing the pads, standing in net, etc. If I tried learning the position as an adult, those feelings of excitement would probably take a backseat to frustration, embarrassment, feelings of ineptitude, etc. Luckily, most children tend to perceive those experiences differently. Learning new things and being bad at them is an everyday experience for a kid! Riding a bike, throwing a baseball, learning to read, etc. 

This is kind of moot, since it sounds like your son or his teammates are not likely to convert to goalies and begin truly learning the position... but I wouldn't teach any youngster to take shortcuts in goal, like going paddle-down every time or staying down once they go down. Good habits need to start early, and bad habits should be squashed early. Having a young person learn something and then having them un-learn it later is confusing, and it delays progress and eventual mastery of certain skills. At one point, it was quicker for me to get up with my left leg every time... I probably saved more goals because it allowed me to get to my feet quicker than if I struggled to use the proper leg. But eventually, I got to the point where I needed to unlearn that habit. I was never truly able to, and now it costs me goals against.

[BadAngle41]

Couple thoughts... none of which are coming from personal experience in coaching at that age...

1. Mindset: Get the kids excited to play goal when it's their CHANCE to play net. It's not something they HAVE to do bc it's their turn... it's something they GET to do because it's FINALLY their turn.
2. Practice: As everyone will eventually play goal, when doing a shooting drill instead of shot and going to the back of the line... they go in goal to stop the next one. No need to wear the gear obviously... but get everyone quasi accustomed to seeing the game from that perspective and maybe even build some confidence and excitement when you celebrate the SAVE not the goal.

I wouldn't say you're over thinking it... the fact you're even asking means you know they're just kids learning and that most will not take to it. But there are certainly things that can make it more fun for them and you.

[Lucky Pucker]

3 hours ago, stackem30 said:

I think you're overthinking it a bit (and I am a chronic over-thinker). One of the cool thing about kids is how unaffected they can be when it comes to being discouraged or embarrassed.

LOL - thanks @stackem30. Funny, but this is what I usually tell my wife when we're wondering and worrying about something for the kids. You'd think I'd apply it here. Thank goodness for the resiliency of kids, and their inherent ability to survive their parents' (over)parenting!

3 hours ago, BadAngle41 said:

Couple thoughts... none of which are coming from personal experience in coaching at that age...

1. Mindset: Get the kids excited to play goal when it's their CHANCE to play net. It's not something they HAVE to do bc it's their turn... it's something they GET to do because it's FINALLY their turn.
2. Practice: As everyone will eventually play goal, when doing a shooting drill instead of shot and going to the back of the line... they go in goal to stop the next one. No need to wear the gear obviously... but get everyone quasi accustomed to seeing the game from that perspective and maybe even build some confidence and excitement when you celebrate the SAVE not the goal.

I wouldn't say you're over thinking it... the fact you're even asking means you know they're just kids learning and that most will not take to it. But there are certainly things that can make it more fun for them and you.

I like these ideas, @BadAngle41. I'm not a coach officially, but if it looks like there's an opportunity to suggest this, I will!

In all of this, the easiest thing is to heap on the positive encouragement, which I already try to do.

[RichMan]

As an instructor, what I've seen from others, be they experienced or just a parent or whatnot filling in for the task, more than often the teaching is farther ahead than the level played.

At Novice, what I believe is a priority for the position is: movement (your basic shuffling, moving forward and backwards), squaring to the puck (you could talk angles here but rarely are there little forward deeking masters at this level), stick positioning (keeping the blade ON the ice and centred to close the hole), tracking (seeing the puck and following the play).

It's fairly basic. Most of them can barely move comfortably on skates, let alone with goalie gear on. The overall goal and experience is to have some fun, win or lose. This goalie rotation thing is just a method to either spark an interest for the position or find a diamond in the rough.

Like stackem30 said, don't over think it, keep it simple and fun and don't forget the positive reinforcement, a lot of these kids can't accept failure because of their surroundings (parents, friends, school, etc.). One thing I must insist on here is that you fight for your space and time with the goalie. Often the practice plan is all forwards/defencemen targeted and little to do or in support of proper goalie development. We're as important if not more so than any of the other positions.

If you need a couple tricks, just PM me. You can also reach out to your Eastern Ontario Hockey Association for tips or coaching programs. They have a well thought out newsletter.

Have fun man. Welcome to the coaches lounge  

[SaveByRichter35]

@Lucky Pucker, if one of the kids end up enjoying playing goalie can they be the full time goalie so long as no one else wants to do it?

[Lucky Pucker]

Just now, SaveByRichter35 said:

@Lucky Pucker, if one of the kids end up enjoying playing goalie can they be the full time goalie so long as no one else wants to do it?

Well, if one of these 7-year olds gets 2 or 3 skates in with full gear, then they'll be better than me! LOL!

I have no idea; I know that in the sorting, I saw the Novice B teams had "full time" goalies determined. We're on for practice tomorrow morning (provided I don't injure myself in my own game today!), so I'll chat with the assistant and head coaches.

[Lucky Pucker]

Just a small update on this.

TL; DR: Yeah, I completely overthought this.

So it turns out that another dad on the team is a real goalie (unlike me, a poser in pads - lol!), and his son is very keen on playing goalie. He's been suiting up for practices, and this kid is great - and always has a huge smile! Even the other kids are all "wow - he's really good!" The offer is still out there for other kids if they want to try it out, but so far this kid is our goalie, and everyone seems happy with this. I did feel bad for him once though, as he literally did not touch the puck in my son's team's first game Sunday, as they won 9-0 (2 goals and 2 assist for my son... my name never looked so good as it did on his back!)

Thanks for the input on this everyone - including the astute observations that I was overthinking it

[SaveByRichter35]

2 hours ago, Lucky Pucker said:

Just a small update on this.

TL; DR: Yeah, I completely overthought this.

So it turns out that another dad on the team is a real goalie (unlike me, a poser in pads - lol!), and his son is very keen on playing goalie. He's been suiting up for practices, and this kid is great - and always has a huge smile! Even the other kids are all "wow - he's really good!" The offer is still out there for other kids if they want to try it out, but so far this kid is our goalie, and everyone seems happy with this. I did feel bad for him once though, as he literally did not touch the puck in my son's team's first game Sunday, as they won 9-0 (2 goals and 2 assist for my son... my name never looked so good as it did on his back!)

Thanks for the input on this everyone - including the astute observations that I was overthinking it

i LOVED THAT!!  I cannot wait to watch my son play one day.

[MTH]

19 minutes ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

i LOVED THAT!!  I cannot wait to watch my son play one day.

It's the best.

[Netnewbie]

9 minutes ago, MTH said:

It's the best.

Neither of my kids play hockey but i have a friend that has a daughter playing in goal.  i love going to watcher her play!

[Lucky Pucker]

1 hour ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

i LOVED THAT!!  I cannot wait to watch my son play one day.

It's surprisingly powerful stuff, man. My wife was in tears just watching him walk on to the ice for the warm up - which almost set me off. Almost...

[SaveByRichter35]

1 minute ago, Lucky Pucker said:

It's surprisingly powerful stuff, man. My wife was in tears just watching him walk on to the ice for the warm up - which almost set me off. Almost...

My son will be 15 months in 2 weeks.  He's been walking since about his birthday.  I plan on getting him on the ice sometime between 18 months and 2 years.  

[Lucky Pucker]

21 minutes ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

My son will be 15 months in 2 weeks.  He's been walking since about his birthday.  I plan on getting him on the ice sometime between 18 months and 2 years.  

Nice! That's better than I did; I think my son was 3 and a half...(?) But then I never even played organized hockey, so he's doing better than me at least!

Another unanticipated bonus with him doing hockey is that there is a shit-ton of hockey Mom stuff you can get online. Stuck for a gift idea for the wife? Get her a hoodie that says "My favorite hockey player calls me "Mom." She'll melt - I've seen it happen!

[SaveByRichter35]

10 minutes ago, Lucky Pucker said:

Nice! That's better than I did; I think my son was 3 and a half...(?) But then I never even played organized hockey, so he's doing better than me at least!

Another unanticipated bonus with him doing hockey is that there is a shit-ton of hockey Mom stuff you can get online. Stuck for a gift idea for the wife? Get her a hoodie that says "My favorite hockey player calls me "Mom." She'll melt - I've seen it happen!

I could be way ahead of myself getting him on skates so soon.  I have no idea how it will pan out.  He's been doing swimming lessons since 3 months old so I figure why not at least get him on the ice even if its just him wearing skates while I hold him from his underarms to keep him upright the whole time haha.

[Lucky Pucker]

9 minutes ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

I could be way ahead of myself getting him on skates so soon.  I have no idea how it will pan out.  He's been doing swimming lessons since 3 months old so I figure why not at least get him on the ice even if its just him wearing skates while I hold him from his underarms to keep him upright the whole time haha.

Meh - I say go for it; if it never goes further, even that will be a great memory you'll have for life!

...and lower back pain. You'll have that too. LOL!

[ThatCarGuy]

21 minutes ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

I could be way ahead of myself getting him on skates so soon.  I have no idea how it will pan out.  He's been doing swimming lessons since 3 months old so I figure why not at least get him on the ice even if its just him wearing skates while I hold him from his underarms to keep him upright the whole time haha.

It's all good. I started skating at age 4 and started goalie at age 8 or 9. For my skating lessons we had those folding chairs that we just pushed around (those have since been replaced with plastic, multicolored, home depot style buckets). If/When you start lessons (official or not) make sure that he learns to skate before receiving his stick. If you give him a stick now then he'll be one of those tripod kids. You don't want your son to be a tripod now do you? 

From my experience, the earlier on the ice the better. I started skating just after I learned to walk (unfortunately now my stride's all messed up and I run the same way I skate) and was able to skate backwards by 5 (I think). I never once picked up a stick until I was around 6 or 7. No tripod-ing here.

[Lucky Pucker]

1 hour ago, ThatCarGuy said:

It's all good. I started skating at age 4 ...

...I started skating just after I learned to walk

Dude, I'm confused... are you saying you only learned to walk at age 4?

Or are you using "just after" figuratively to gloss over what is presumably a developmentally critical  ~3 year part of your life...?

[ThatCarGuy]

7 minutes ago, Lucky Pucker said:

Dude, I'm confused... are you saying you only learned to wall at age 4?

Or are you using "just after" figuratively to gloss over what is presumably a developmentally critical  ~3 year part of your life...?

I'll be honest. I don't know when I started walking exactly. I just know I was late and that I started skating soon after. That detail does not change the fact (that was not mentioned before) that I could skate (slowly) before I could run. My life has not been very developmentally critical. Especially not that stage. I also don't study these things to know when I could have possibly walked. Being horribly overweight as  a baby caused difficulty a much longer development time for walking.

I'm good with automotive engineering and crease movements. Not health science. A couple months ago I could not tell you the difference between a calf and a thigh (maybe a slight exaggeration). A couple months ago I could tell you where exactly piston #4 goes in an engine.

[Lucky Pucker]

32 minutes ago, ThatCarGuy said:

I'll be honest. I don't know when I started walking exactly. I just know I was late and that I started skating soon after. 

Pfft - all good man. I don’t even remember when my daughter started walking - and she just turned 5. I sure as hell don’t know when I started walking! 

You probably have me beat for automotive engineering and crease movements, the latter for me consisting exclusively of skating into it, and then skating out of it when the game is over

[Lucky Pucker]

...and falling down while in the crease. I’m counting that as “crease movement” too. Lol!

[Fullright]

Bless you guys! Wish I saw more like you fellas at the local ponds; you're positively influencing young kids more than you can ever know. 

[Hockey School Dropout]

Both my kids started in goal during novice and I have coached them both.  With the girls, anyone at anytime can play goalie.  Every year I have coached my daughter, and every year I have offered the other girls the opportunity to take a spin in the crease.  Very few have taken me up on the offer, but I think it's good for them to have the chance.  Now that she's in Bantam, they're pretty much set in their positions.

As for my son, he started in novice as well, but the boys hockey is a MUCH different animal.  If you register as a goalie, you are THE goalie.  If you want to be a part-time goalie, you have to go to sort outs as both so you can "be placed appropriately" to your level.  WTF?  It's HOUSE LEAGUE hockey.  If another kid wants to try goalie why shouldn't they be allowed to, or vice versa if my son wanted to be a skater once in a while?  His association really bullies the coaches into this way of thinking.  I think up until PeeWee at the earliest a kid should not be pigeon-holed into a position.

[Lucky Pucker]

1 hour ago, Hockey School Dropout said:

Both my kids started in goal during novice and I have coached them both.  With the girls, anyone at anytime can play goalie.  Every year I have coached my daughter, and every year I have offered the other girls the opportunity to take a spin in the crease.  Very few have taken me up on the offer, but I think it's good for them to have the chance.  Now that she's in Bantam, they're pretty much set in their positions.

As for my son, he started in novice as well, but the boys hockey is a MUCH different animal.  If you register as a goalie, you are THE goalie.  If you want to be a part-time goalie, you have to go to sort outs as both so you can "be placed appropriately" to your level.  WTF?  It's HOUSE LEAGUE hockey.  If another kid wants to try goalie why shouldn't they be allowed to, or vice versa if my son wanted to be a skater once in a while?  His association really bullies the coaches into this way of thinking.  I think up until PeeWee at the earliest a kid should not be pigeon-holed into a position.

Wow - that sorta sucks. I'm in the east end, and we have had nothing like that! I mean, let's be realistic here; kids this age/level may line up for a face off in a certain position, but after that puck drops they're all over the place!

Agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence about not pigeon-holing kids so early.

[Lucky Pucker]

Update: after seeing his friends try goalie, my son said he wanted to try it too, so we had him suit up for practice and scrimmage Sunday morning. He had a blast, and did really well. He'll be getting the start in their next game on January 5th!

Here's an action pic my wife snapped from the stands (I was on the ice, so couldn't take pics myself)