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Stick Lies


TheGoalNet

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So... @SaveByRichter35 and I have both been a bit perplexed by a CR1 25” Mrazek. Something about the lie or way the paddle is measured just seems off...

This has sparked a bunch of discussions about lies. They used to be posted on every stick and now they’re posted on none...

Anyone know much about what a Bauer P31 would be measured at or have good comparison’s between brands?

@GoalieTimmy33 @TGC-Rance @thebigm @ULTIMA - Any feedback from selling sticks?

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its the round blade shape at the heel vs the p31 which is flat not rocker. if u measure at the bottom of the  paddle its going to be wrong.  the nhl way of measure is 3 " paddle width till its no more anything greater is usually part of the heel which is max width of 4". so all the 27" or higher  minus the blade of 3-4" is actuall legal.  that's why everyone is confused.

no one ever talk about the blade shape of the stick they choose , majority of pros use rocker blades

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10 hours ago, DL42 said:

its the round blade shape at the heel vs the p31 which is flat not rocker. if u measure at the bottom of the  paddle its going to be wrong.  the nhl way of measure is 3 " paddle width till its no more anything greater is usually part of the heel which is max width of 4". so all the 27" or higher  minus the blade of 3-4" is actuall legal.  that's why everyone is confused.

no one ever talk about the blade shape of the stick they choose , majority of pros use rocker blades

P31 was just used an example. 

I compared the Warrior to a 2S Pro Price clone and and CCM “New Price” Pro Stock. The issue here really isn’t the Warrior stick, it’s more trying to educate and compare among models. 

Do you have any idea what lie Bauer calls a P31?

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This is an interesting topic regarding what I perceive as a major annoyance with the specifications of goalie sticks. Many years ago, I recall not caring much, if at all, about the paddle length of a goalie stick. If available, I usually bought multiples of the same model. If a source dried up, I was often able to find something similar in height. However, paddle height wasn't and is not the first check box on the list of specifications I'm checking off. Stick lie is a far more important metric for me than paddle height. One or two more inches of paddle height will certainly position your blocker hand differently, but I argue a single degree of lie makes a truly drastic different in blocker position. I argue that a goal tender can more easily adjust to a one inch paddle height difference than a one degree lie difference, all other specs being equal. Change only the lie on a goal stick, and you may find the toe or heal off the ice in your stance, and you may also whiff on clearing attempts and break-out passes. Unfortunately, lie differences still exist, but the labeling of lie on a stick no longer does. I recently purchased some foam core Bauer sticks in the P34 pattern believe they would have a slightly lower lie than 14 degrees, but in actuality, they do not. I like the sticks otherwise, so I will soldier on.

Additionally, the stick's lie can have an effect on puck handling or one's approach to puck handling. A lower lie makes firing off an underhand pass more natural - A higher lie makes the modern overhand method more intuitive. I am a more-than-comfortable puck handler and have adjusted to the overhand approach largely due to the lack of lower-lie options. I can use either method and will be equally comfortable. It just took some time and practice. I am blade pattern agnostic - I think this is the biggest marketing gimmick for goalie sticks, but I understand how it can matter for many goalies. Compared to a truly straight blade, any curve will give you an advantage in the puck handling department. Unless you're CuJo, I suppose...

Experiential Aside:

I used 'Belfour' model sticks exclusively for years and years. His pattern was remarkably consistent over time and across brands. What initially drew me to using Belfour's stick pattern was that is the Eagle is the same height as I am, so it 'fits' from that perspective. His stick specs featured a 13 degree lie and a 26" or slightly over paddle length. Overall length varied slightly over time and brands, as the wicked curve he enjoyed. For someone with a deep, wide stance, and upright torso, this placed the blocker hand outside the knee ensuring no double-coverage. It worked for me then, but I certainly do not crouch as low as I once did. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just an FYI, I compared Bauer, CCM, Sher-Wood and Warrior sticks today. It seems that 25" and or 26" is pretty close in ever brand accept Warrior. It seems like you need size up 1" to be similar. My understanding that this is because uses different lies. That absolutely does not mean there's anything wrong with Warrior, just a heads up when changing between brands.

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blade of shape rocker makes lie useless,  i

in stance position from center line the blade rest in the middle tipping point of blade, not heel.

rounded toe and heel washes out the lie put he hand in better position and coverage + mobility.

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  • 2 months later...

Im currently using my last Passau custom stick which is a 13 lie.  Its a copy of the Belfour CCM/Christian stick.  Been using this lie and pattern for years.  As @dualshowman mentioned its alittle over 26 paddle.  26.5 i believe.  So after trying pretty much everyone, no one will make a 13 lie anymore.  Now im not sure where to begin on paddle length in a 14 lie.  Im thinking 27????

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17 minutes ago, daffy said:

Im currently using my last Passau custom stick which is a 13 lie.  Its a copy of the Belfour CCM/Christian stick.  Been using this lie and pattern for years.  As @dualshowman mentioned its alittle over 26 paddle.  26.5 i believe.  So after trying pretty much everyone, no one will make a 13 lie anymore.  Now im not sure where to begin on paddle length in a 14 lie.  Im thinking 27????

Have you tried Northstar? 

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@daffy I'm in the exact same boat, been using CCM Belfour pro returns and only have one decent one left. I've tried a couple of newer sticks and can't get used to the lie. I was very surprised how much it affected everything. Thanks for the info on the lie, happy to know what it is finally!

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21 hours ago, daffy said:

Im currently using my last Passau custom stick which is a 13 lie.  Its a copy of the Belfour CCM/Christian stick.  Been using this lie and pattern for years.  As @dualshowman mentioned its alittle over 26 paddle.  26.5 i believe.  So after trying pretty much everyone, no one will make a 13 lie anymore.  Now im not sure where to begin on paddle length in a 14 lie.  Im thinking 27????

If you are into composite, the new Price is pretty upright. You could you try to find a shop with those or custom order a 3 pack. Obviously not the cheapest route.

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@TheGoalNet when you say order custom, do you mean ordering a 3 pack in a 13 lie?  If so, ive tried everyone i can think of and they wont do 13 lie anymore even as custom.  Waiting on a response from Rob Laurie at Northstar to see if i can be done.  I have a buddy who wants them too.  Even if i had to order a dozen, i would just so i have them.

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23 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

Have you tried Northstar? 

23 hours ago, daffy said:

@Chenner29 not sure but going to now!

You will not regret that decision, I bought a three pack of Northstar G1 Shooter sticks and they are everything I could want from a stick. They're balanced, look good, super durable, and feel a little lighter than my composite Bauer TotalOne stick (which snapped after a month or two of use). Out of the 3 pack I'm still on #1 after 1 season of use playing for three teams (JV Gold, Varsity Bronze, 18U House, and half a season of 14U House this year). No signs of splintering in the wood, the blade is still near perfect, and zero signs of denting on the edges of the paddle. The stick also broke in very nicely and is super soft which I love. The only problem I have with these sticks is that the paint for the logos likes to chip a little.

IMG_0283.thumb.JPG.125a1e135d41ba661c49c5f5f46b36ef.JPG

Even if you don't like how they perform, they'll look great hung up on the wall.

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@dualshowman @johan29 good news!!! Rob @ Northstar can do 13lie.  Just needs a sample.  I have one of my Passaus here that i will send him in summer.  Team changing jerseys so not sure of colors yet.  He will keep on file so if any of you want that stick he will have it.  My Passau is made off the CCM belfour pattern.  Minimum 6 sticks for an order.  Once again the board helps me out!

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