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Max27

Transition from a cowling skate to a cowlingless one

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Likely getting a new pair of skates soon, my skates i have right now are a little too big and its uncomfortable to skate in them, and wanna try cowlingless ones a lot. Curious to see what the transition would be like. Obviously the Cowlingless is lighter and is higher up but im wondering what the adjustment period will be like going from a skate with a cowling to one without. Pros as well as Cons. Im in CCM RBZ 80 Skates Right now for whatever its worth and will be getting Bauer Supreme skates if i get the cowlingless 

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I'm coming off a pair of ancient Bauer 4000's from 1994 to the cowlingless Bauer S29. The transition has not been friendly for me. I find shots hurt a lot more than they did when I played junior in my cowling skates. I love the lightness of the Bauers though. But having said that, the Bauers aren't fitting properly and they must go. I just ordered a set of True skates and went back to the cowling that I am so used to.

Now I will say that although I am a butterfly goalie, I have the odd foot out desperation move or kick save that exposes my foot more than most modern players would. Even still, shots get deflected, things happen and I am not used to stingers on the foot. 

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3 minutes ago, aircanuck said:

I'm coming off a pair of ancient Bauer 4000's from 1994 to the cowlingless Bauer S29. The transition has not been friendly for me. I find shots hurt a lot more than they did when I played junior in my cowling skates. I love the lightness of the Bauers though. But having said that, the Bauers aren't fitting properly and they must go. I just ordered a set of True skates and went back to the cowling that I am so used to.

Now I will say that although I am a butterfly goalie, I have the odd foot out desperation move or kick save that exposes my foot more than most modern players would. Even still, shots get deflected, things happen and I am not used to stingers on the foot. 

what do you mean the shots hurt, like on the toe cap or the boot itself? also what is wrong with the fit?

Edited by Max27

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@Max27 Both Boot and toe have both taken shots that make me swear and I am well used to puck pain. My S29s just don't fit my dainty feet properly, toes go completely cold and numb, perhaps this is why things hurt more than usual. I've tried a lot of solutions but they just don't work for me, your mileage will definitely vary!

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2 minutes ago, aircanuck said:

@Max27 Both Boot and toe have both taken shots that make me swear and I am well used to puck pain. My S29s just don't fit my dainty feet properly, toes go completely cold and numb, perhaps this is why things hurt more than usual. I've tried a lot of solutions but they just don't work for me, your mileage will definitely vary!

ah. interesting. hope you find success w the true skates

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Thanks! If it helps, I didn't find the height or change in attack angle too bad. It seemed very natural, I enjoyed that part. What size are your feet? I will be practically giving my S29's away!

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I recently switched from Bauers with a cowling to S190s.

It felt a little weird at first being noticeably taller and more...lightfooted. 

I swear, they're faster and more aggressive and reactive. I feel like my skating and puckhandling improved quite a bit because they just feel super responsive.   

No shots have been felt on my feet so far. 

I can notice the inside corner of my pad boot being further up and a bit less likely to stop a shot that might get by my stick with me on my feet, but no instance of this so far.

To summarize,  cowlingless skates are more nimble and aggressive in footwork and skating in my very recent experience. 

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14 minutes ago, aircanuck said:

Thanks! If it helps, I didn't find the height or change in attack angle too bad. It seemed very natural, I enjoyed that part. What size are your feet? I will be practically giving my S29's away!

I use 10.5 EE for skates 

im in 11 EE but theyre too big and it hurts my feet like hell lol

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I went from vh boot on Bauer vertexx cowling to vh’s two piece cowlingless skates. It was a fairly seamless transition. The cowlingless respond better, IMO. I like the better attack angle of the cowlingless. I have to say the biggest difference for me was going from 3mm in the vertexx to 4mm in the step holder. 3mm I had to sharpen to 3/8” and it lost the edge quickly and needed to be resharpened every 2-3 skates. 

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7 hours ago, seagoal said:

I recently switched from Bauers with a cowling to S190s.

It felt a little weird at first being noticeably taller and more...lightfooted. 

I swear, they're faster and more aggressive and reactive. I feel like my skating and puckhandling improved quite a bit because they just feel super responsive.   

No shots have been felt on my feet so far. 

I can notice the inside corner of my pad boot being further up and a bit less likely to stop a shot that might get by my stick with me on my feet, but no instance of this so far.

To summarize,  cowlingless skates are more nimble and aggressive in footwork and skating in my very recent experience. 

ive heard stuff like that a lot abt how theyre faster

i remember trav4oilers said he doesnt really believe in the cowlingless skate

6 hours ago, Imperative said:

I went from vh boot on Bauer vertexx cowling to vh’s two piece cowlingless skates. It was a fairly seamless transition. The cowlingless respond better, IMO. I like the better attack angle of the cowlingless. I have to say the biggest difference for me was going from 3mm in the vertexx to 4mm in the step holder. 3mm I had to sharpen to 3/8” and it lost the edge quickly and needed to be resharpened every 2-3 skates. 

ah, 

i hardly get my skates sharpened anyways, i like them duller so i can flow. one or 2 thru the season seems to do it for me

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I switched earlier this year from CCM RBZ 90s to the 1S skates. Biggest differences I noticed were that the skate was much more responsive, and allows for more agility (don't know if that's the exact way I would describe it, but it's close. They are the closest thing to a player boot I could've imagined, which I really prefer having started goaltending after playing defense for several years.  

I don't notice anything too different then what I had in the RBZs when it comes to the protection level. The more aggressive pitch , as well as the attack angle, were definitely noticeable but in good way. As for sharpening the Bauers need a little more regular sharpening than the CCMs did but its not a major increase the number of times I take them to get sharpened. Your first skate or two expect it will take a little adjustment but after that you should be just fine. 

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1 hour ago, Max27 said:

ive heard stuff like that a lot abt how theyre faster

i remember trav4oilers said he doesnt really believe in the cowlingless skate

ah, 

i hardly get my skates sharpened anyways, i like them duller so i can flow. one or 2 thru the season seems to do it for me

I made the progression to cowlingless through a Graf of all things... replaced the Cobra cowling with a Bauer Vertex... then jumped to cowlingless. Trav4Oilers should stop thinking about the skates as some sort of faith... there is nothing to believe in. Facts are as follows.. they're lighter and more responsive. Now if you don't like how that feels fine... but it's not a matter of belief.

As for taking shots off of them.... I can see where some guys would say that yes they feel it more than a traditional cowling. Of course you would. There is no longer a couple mm of plastic shroud and a couple more mm of space between that shroud and your boot. I would point out however that cowlingless skates are designed to be used in conjunction with a modern style of goaltending in which your boot is far less exposed than in times gone by. Rare occasional scrambles will happen where you do have an increased opportunity for a puck off the boot... but if you're tracking and moving decently well... your boot should be pretty well covered. Personally I think i've taken maybe 2 shots off the toe in the two years or so i've owned cowlingless. Neither of which were painful. 

Lastly... how very Robin Lehner of you to get 1 or 2 sharpenings a season. I'm not 100% sure but I think you're in a skate w/ 4mm steel now. Switch to Bauer cowlingless and you'l be in a 3mm... so finding that right hollow will take some time... and the steel is pretty darn soft... so post dings will have a much greater impact for you than before. In other words... you will likely need to get sharpenings more often. 

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46 minutes ago, BadAngle41 said:

I made the progression to cowlingless through a Graf of all things... replaced the Cobra cowling with a Bauer Vertex... then jumped to cowlingless. Trav4Oilers should stop thinking about the skates as some sort of faith... there is nothing to believe in. Facts are as follows.. they're lighter and more responsive. Now if you don't like how that feels fine... but it's not a matter of belief.

As for taking shots off of them.... I can see where some guys would say that yes they feel it more than a traditional cowling. Of course you would. There is no longer a couple mm of plastic shroud and a couple more mm of space between that shroud and your boot. I would point out however that cowlingless skates are designed to be used in conjunction with a modern style of goaltending in which your boot is far less exposed than in times gone by. Rare occasional scrambles will happen where you do have an increased opportunity for a puck off the boot... but if you're tracking and moving decently well... your boot should be pretty well covered. Personally I think i've taken maybe 2 shots off the toe in the two years or so i've owned cowlingless. Neither of which were painful. 

Lastly... how very Robin Lehner of you to get 1 or 2 sharpenings a season. I'm not 100% sure but I think you're in a skate w/ 4mm steel now. Switch to Bauer cowlingless and you'l be in a 3mm... so finding that right hollow will take some time... and the steel is pretty darn soft... so post dings will have a much greater impact for you than before. In other words... you will likely need to get sharpenings more often. 

The “modern pad” and 3mm vs 4mm are excellent points to be considered. I was gonna chime in with that, but was lazy... and i think it sounds much better coming from @BadAngle41 anyway!

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The biggest transition will be from 4mm steel to 3mm.  You an I are very opposite, in that I like my skates razor sharp and with a deeper hollow.  Iv'e been known to take them to my buddy for a couple passes from his Sparx every week to keep nicks at a minimum.   Given that you would rather work off a duller blade I'm wondering if you'll notice any of the advantages of the cowlingless design.  The more aggressive angle of attack that the cowlingless skate offers is great for deeper stances and easier butterfly pushes, however dull skates negate both of these to a certain degree.  

You may be able to find a great deal on older, high level, previous generation skates that will feel more like what you currently have, but are more comfortable.   Just like has been mentioned in your stick thread, there isn't a magic set of skates that will improve your game.  Unlike a stick though, the wrong pair of skates can cause enough discomfort to diminish your enjoyment of the game.  My advice:  Worry more about getting the best fitting skate you can get for the money you have to spend first.  Then worry about whether it's 3mm or 4mm steel, has a cowling or doesn't, etc...   

Edited by Puckstopper

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4 hours ago, Max27 said:

ive heard stuff like that a lot abt how theyre faster

i remember trav4oilers said he doesnt really believe in the cowlingless skate

ah, 

i hardly get my skates sharpened anyways, i like them duller so i can flow. one or 2 thru the season seems to do it for me

Trav is in a cowlingless True 2-piece now anyway. 

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7 hours ago, Max27 said:

ive heard stuff like that a lot abt how theyre faster

i remember trav4oilers said he doesnt really believe in the cowlingless skate

trav4oilers also wears a mask that doesn’t fit him, doesn’t wear a neck guard or dangler. I called him out for that after he broke his collarbone and he blocked me 😂

Edited by southpawtendy48

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I went from Bauer One80 to the X700 and what stuck out the most for me was the height. Even though it's not a huge difference, it put some strain on my hips, knees and ankles. The 3mm blade is quite different as well. I wasn't ever the best skater out there, so the "more agile" argument falls mute on me. If anything, I felt more agile in my One80s, "happy feet" as I call it. I find myself struggling more on shuffles and t-pushes in my X700s.

I've been searching for a clue as to why I can't adapt as well as others to the no cowling approach. I'm starting to wonder if it has anything to do with the following; the 3mm vs 4mm, seeing that the 4mm covers a little more surface and may give me better stability, and I'm also wondering about the weight difference. Best example I can think of is when cycling (riding a road bike), the difference between a steel frame compared to a aluminum or carbon (or a mix) frame is like night and day. Sure the later is lighter but there is a momentum factor that steel frames bring to the table, especially in sprints and downhill. Of course, when on the ice, you remain flat, horizontal, but to weight and movement combined in say a t-push must play a factor in how well you move around, the energy transfer as those wearing True skates like to say, and you know how heavy those suckers are compared to Bauer and CCM skates.

I might give Step Steel 4mm blades a try before I decide to search for some relics to retire with.

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22 minutes ago, RichMan said:

I went from Bauer One80 to the X700 and what stuck out the most for me was the height. Even though it's not a huge difference, it put some strain on my hips, knees and ankles. The 3mm blade is quite different as well. I wasn't ever the best skater out there, so the "more agile" argument falls mute on me. If anything, I felt more agile in my One80s, "happy feet" as I call it. I find myself struggling more on shuffles and t-pushes in my X700s.

I've been searching for a clue as to why I can't adapt as well as others to the no cowling approach. I'm starting to wonder if it has anything to do with the following; the 3mm vs 4mm, seeing that the 4mm covers a little more surface and may give me better stability, and I'm also wondering about the weight difference. Best example I can think of is when cycling (riding a road bike), the difference between a steel frame compared to a aluminum or carbon (or a mix) frame is like night and day. Sure the later is lighter but there is a momentum factor that steel frames bring to the table, especially in sprints and downhill. Of course, when on the ice, you remain flat, horizontal, but to weight and movement combined in say a t-push must play a factor in how well you move around, the energy transfer as those wearing True skates like to say, and you know how heavy those suckers are compared to Bauer and CCM skates.

I might give Step Steel 4mm blades a try before I decide to search for some relics to retire with.

Those are really interesting points.

I think for shuffles and t-pushes (and c-cuts) it's my experience too that my S190s are more difficult than my One80s were.  It makes sense given that the center of gravity is affected by being taller and the amount of weight distributed downward is arguably reduced in a taller skate. 

I would agree that for myself I felt more firmly planted and stable in my One80s, but, the benefits of the S190s outweigh that for me.  Give and takes with any change.

It'd be difficult to articulate the physics of this, but whatever physics (X) is involved in taller skates being faster and more responsive and better for skating, it's that same X responsible for shorter skates being easier to shuffle/t-push/c-cut....or so it seems in my mind.

Edited by seagoal

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11 hours ago, Harkonnen26 said:

I switched earlier this year from CCM RBZ 90s to the 1S skates. Biggest differences I noticed were that the skate was much more responsive, and allows for more agility (don't know if that's the exact way I would describe it, but it's close. They are the closest thing to a player boot I could've imagined, which I really prefer having started goaltending after playing defense for several years.  

I don't notice anything too different then what I had in the RBZs when it comes to the protection level. The more aggressive pitch , as well as the attack angle, were definitely noticeable but in good way. As for sharpening the Bauers need a little more regular sharpening than the CCMs did but its not a major increase the number of times I take them to get sharpened. Your first skate or two expect it will take a little adjustment but after that you should be just fine. 

Ok cool thanks

Good reference as you went from RBZ to Supreme just like i likely will. i will play around with how i like the sharpening on them, see if they hold edges longer, whatever

10 hours ago, BadAngle41 said:

I made the progression to cowlingless through a Graf of all things... replaced the Cobra cowling with a Bauer Vertex... then jumped to cowlingless. Trav4Oilers should stop thinking about the skates as some sort of faith... there is nothing to believe in. Facts are as follows.. they're lighter and more responsive. Now if you don't like how that feels fine... but it's not a matter of belief.

As for taking shots off of them.... I can see where some guys would say that yes they feel it more than a traditional cowling. Of course you would. There is no longer a couple mm of plastic shroud and a couple more mm of space between that shroud and your boot. I would point out however that cowlingless skates are designed to be used in conjunction with a modern style of goaltending in which your boot is far less exposed than in times gone by. Rare occasional scrambles will happen where you do have an increased opportunity for a puck off the boot... but if you're tracking and moving decently well... your boot should be pretty well covered. Personally I think i've taken maybe 2 shots off the toe in the two years or so i've owned cowlingless. Neither of which were painful. 

Lastly... how very Robin Lehner of you to get 1 or 2 sharpenings a season. I'm not 100% sure but I think you're in a skate w/ 4mm steel now. Switch to Bauer cowlingless and you'l be in a 3mm... so finding that right hollow will take some time... and the steel is pretty darn soft... so post dings will have a much greater impact for you than before. In other words... you will likely need to get sharpenings more often. 

yeah i wear pretty tight toe straps so my feet dont extend that much, so im not that concerned abt being shot in the foot. havent been shot there before anyway

and yeah lol i saw that article about how he does 1 sharpening per year. im about 6'2-maybe 6'3 so im similar to him in that were both bigger guys (hes 6'4 240 im 6'2 190-200 not exactly sure) and  like to flow. i found the last time i sharpened my skates i was all awkward and unbalanced. i was trying to do movements and would fall after them, or lose balance, things that didnt happen with the duller skate so i keep them dull. last weekend i got them sharpened for the first time since February and didnt feel that awkward but i like them really dull still. Prob gonna end up having play around w the sharpening on cowlingless to get comfortable

9 hours ago, Puckstopper said:

The biggest transition will be from 4mm steel to 3mm.  You an I are very opposite, in that I like my skates razor sharp and with a deeper hollow.  Iv'e been known to take them to my buddy for a couple passes from his Sparx every week to keep nicks at a minimum.   Given that you would rather work off a duller blade I'm wondering if you'll notice any of the advantages of the cowlingless design.  The more aggressive angle of attack that the cowlingless skate offers is great for deeper stances and easier butterfly pushes, however dull skates negate both of these to a certain degree.  

You may be able to find a great deal on older, high level, previous generation skates that will feel more like what you currently have, but are more comfortable.   Just like has been mentioned in your stick thread, there isn't a magic set of skates that will improve your game.  Unlike a stick though, the wrong pair of skates can cause enough discomfort to diminish your enjoyment of the game.  My advice:  Worry more about getting the best fitting skate you can get for the money you have to spend first.  Then worry about whether it's 3mm or 4mm steel, has a cowling or doesn't, etc...   

yeah ive found with my rbz skates bc theyre too big its almost a nuisance at times to skate in them bc i have so much room at the toe and its effected my movements. i looked at bauers sizing and im gonna use the 10.5 over 11. i have wider feet so ill keep the EE and bauers are made for more narrow feet.

abt money, im gonna get the s27 skates which are 300$ so its not a huge investment say they arent for me 

8 hours ago, Punisher Goalie said:

Trav is in a cowlingless True 2-piece now anyway. 

yeah i remember him saying in a thing on insta when he was selling his true boots that broke "if youre like me and dont believe in the whole cowlingless skate thing"

4 hours ago, southpawtendy48 said:

trav4oilers also wears a mask that doesn’t fit him, doesn’t wear a neck guard or dangler. I called him out for that after he broke his collarbone and he blocked me 😂

lol yeah i love trav hes a badass 

i would wear no neck guard if i could, tried to get away with it but the ref wouldnt let me play without it and made me go get one 

12 minutes ago, RichMan said:

I went from Bauer One80 to the X700 and what stuck out the most for me was the height. Even though it's not a huge difference, it put some strain on my hips, knees and ankles. The 3mm blade is quite different as well. I wasn't ever the best skater out there, so the "more agile" argument falls mute on me. If anything, I felt more agile in my One80s, "happy feet" as I call it. I find myself struggling more on shuffles and t-pushes in my X700s.

I've been searching for a clue as to why I can't adapt as well as others to the no cowling approach. I'm starting to wonder if it has anything to do with the following; the 3mm vs 4mm, seeing that the 4mm covers a little more surface and may give me better stability, and I'm also wondering about the weight difference. Best example I can think of is when cycling (riding a road bike), the difference between a steel frame compared to a aluminum or carbon (or a mix) frame is like night and day. Sure the later is lighter but there is a momentum factor that steel frames bring to the table, especially in sprints and downhill. Of course, when on the ice, you remain flat, horizontal, but to weight and movement combined in say a t-push must play a factor in how well you move around, the energy transfer as those wearing True skates like to say, and you know how heavy those suckers are compared to Bauer and CCM skates.

I might give Step Steel 4mm blades a try before I decide to search for some relics to retire with.

Thats interesting that u had issues w moving in them, id think something so much lighter would allow better movement

14 minutes ago, seagoal said:

Those are really interesting points.

I think for shuffles and t-pushes (and c-cuts) it's my experience too that my S190s are more difficult than my One80s were.  It makes sense given that the center of gravity is affected by being taller and the amount of weight distributed downward is arguably reduced in a taller skate. 

I would agree that for myself I felt more firmly planted and stable in my One80s, but, the benefits of the S190s outweigh that for me.  Give and takes with any change.

It'd be difficult to articulate the physics of this, but whatever physics (X) is involved in taller skates being faster and more responsive and better for skating, it's that same X responsible for shorter skates being easier to shuffle/t-push/c-cut....or so it seems in my mind.

yeah it is some interesting points

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11 minutes ago, Max27 said:

Thats interesting that u had issues w moving in them, id think something so much lighter would allow better movement

It's not like when you're actually feet to the ground, say playing basketball or running, a light shoe will definitely give you a mobility and quickness advantage. But on blades, it feels different and I think that weight plays a role in the movement or energy transfer. I know what the hamster is trying to say, just not sure how to better say it lolll

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28 minutes ago, RichMan said:

It's not like when you're actually feet to the ground, say playing basketball or running, a light shoe will definitely give you a mobility and quickness advantage. But on blades, it feels different and I think that weight plays a role in the movement or energy transfer. I know what the hamster is trying to say, just not sure how to better say it lolll

ahh

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Posted (edited)

Just used my new to me Vapor 1x skates in a noon drop in today and let me say I am all in on this whole cowling-less thing. I honestly kind of thought of it as a gimmick when they first came out but my god do they feel so much better to skate on than anything else I've used. They were noticeably lighter and I felt like I could move around both standing and in the butterfly much easier. That's even being in skates that are a half size too big for me as I couldn't pass up the deal on these and just wanted to see what all the fuss was about. I did take a decent shot off the toe cap on a stretching save and I definitely did feel it more than I would've but it didn't hurt.  I'll probably roll with these for a while as they weren't grossly too big but I think I'll go in and get a custom pair of Bauer skates within the next year.

Edited by wox33
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4 hours ago, wox33 said:

Just used my new to me Vapor 1x skates in a noon drop in today and let me say I am all in on this whole cowling-less thing. I honestly kind of thought of it as a gimmick when they first came out but my god do they feel so much better to skate on than anything else I've used. They were noticeably lighter and I felt like I could move around both standing and in the butterfly much easier. That's even being in skates that are a half size too big for me as I couldn't pass up the deal on these and just wanted to see what all the fuss was about. I did take a decent shot off the toe cap on a stretching save and I definitely did feel it more than I would've but it didn't hurt.  I'll probably roll with these for a while as they weren't grossly too big but I think I'll go in and get a custom pair of Bauer skates within the next year.

i got s27s for xmas but got sick and couldnt use them, i skate at a public skate tm and am super excited based off all the hype the cowlingless skate has. i sold my old rbz 80s so theyre gonna have to work lol

4 hours ago, seagoal said:

They're faster.  

image.png.fc3e205facacd84d322b89037638c3ad.png

i hope they are, i do a lot of skating and shuffling and think itll help increase agility, etc. 

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Just so you know, I made a couple toe saves tonight, and I'm not sure if it hit me on the toe cap or the holder, but I felt them enough to feel discomfort. I don't have a perfect flare b-fly so my Vapors are at a disadvantage on that level, and they weren't super hard shots. I've experienced this at least 4-5 times now since I've owned the skates. I fear that one of these days I'm going to get a real bomb and get injured.

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