Disappointed in 2X Pro?

[jayluv54]

I just picked up a pro return 2X set 34+1.5 and they weigh roughly the same as my pro return 33+2 Vaughn V-Elite Carbons a just over 5lbs.  I used to be a Bauer guy but haven't touched anything since my Reactor 9000's...not impressed with this gear at all.

[coopaloop1234]

31 minutes ago, jayluv54 said:

I just picked up a pro return 2X set 34+1.5 and they weigh roughly the same as my pro return 33+2 Vaughn V-Elite Carbons a just over 5lbs.  I used to be a Bauer guy but haven't touched anything since my Reactor 9000's...not impressed with this gear at all.

Just curious as to why you're not impressed?

[TheGoalNet]

1 hour ago, jayluv54 said:

I just picked up a pro return 2X set 34+1.5 and they weigh roughly the same as my pro return 33+2 Vaughn V-Elite Carbons a just over 5lbs.  I used to be a Bauer guy but haven't touched anything since my Reactor 9000's...not impressed with this gear at all.

Any pics of the set?

[jayluv54]

1 hour ago, TheGoalNet said:

Any pics of the set?

I can take some tonight but they are skinned 2S, so no graphic help there.

[Max27]

2 minutes ago, jayluv54 said:

I can take some tonight but they are skinned 2S, so no graphic help there.

were they on Sideline Swap from a CHL Goalie?

[jayluv54]

8 minutes ago, Max27 said:

were they on Sideline Swap from a CHL Goalie?

those are the ones

[Max27]

Just now, jayluv54 said:

those are the ones

ya i saw those. what dont u like abt them?

[jayluv54]

1 hour ago, Max27 said:

ya i saw those. what dont u like abt them?

3 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Just curious as to why you're not impressed?

Its not that I don't like them, but I guess I just expected something more.  I've had a lot of Bauer gear over the years from RX10's and One100's to NXG's and Reactor 9000's and everything in between.  The pads are OK, but like I said, not nearly as light as I was expecting.  Sliding is obviously really good, rebounds are similar to my R/GT Pros.  Not much else to say about them, feel kind of unstable.   

To me the gloves are the biggest disappointment.  The blocker is nearly identical to the Reactor 9000. Was always a fan of the balance and weight though, so its OK, just mostly unchanged in 4 years.  Not necessarily a bad thing, but durability definitely still an issue and lack of finger protection.  The catcher looks different with the 1 piece cuff, but it still has the same crappy closure the 6000 and 9000 gloves had.  Extremely stiff and very little grip inside the glove.  The feel is inconsistent and reminds me more of the 6000 than the 9000 in that regard.

I'm not bashing the set or anything, its all fine, but I guess I was just expecting something a little fresher.  The skin is tougher this time around, but the seams are weak.  I don't know if its the material or the craftsmanship.

[Max27]

39 minutes ago, jayluv54 said:

Its not that I don't like them, but I guess I just expected something more.  I've had a lot of Bauer gear over the years from RX10's and One100's to NXG's and Reactor 9000's and everything in between.  The pads are OK, but like I said, not nearly as light as I was expecting.  Sliding is obviously really good, rebounds are similar to my R/GT Pros.  Not much else to say about them, feel kind of unstable.   

To me the gloves are the biggest disappointment.  The blocker is nearly identical to the Reactor 9000. Was always a fan of the balance and weight though, so its OK, just mostly unchanged in 4 years.  Not necessarily a bad thing, but durability definitely still an issue and lack of finger protection.  The catcher looks different with the 1 piece cuff, but it still has the same crappy closure the 6000 and 9000 gloves had.  Extremely stiff and very little grip inside the glove.  The feel is inconsistent and reminds me more of the 6000 than the 9000 in that regard.

I'm not bashing the set or anything, its all fine, but I guess I was just expecting something a little fresher.  The skin is tougher this time around, but the seams are weak.  I don't know if its the material or the craftsmanship.

gonna be an adjustment time from r9000s, especially since the guy selling the 2x pads said they have only 1 internal break

[jayluv54]

5 hours ago, Max27 said:

gonna be an adjustment time from r9000s, especially since the guy selling the 2x pads said they have only 1 internal break

As far as the pads go, they feel a lot like my R/GTs, very similar feel and flex, so I dont have a lot of issue with how they play.

[southpawtendy48]

On 11/27/2018 at 1:44 PM, jayluv54 said:

Its not that I don't like them, but I guess I just expected something more.  I've had a lot of Bauer gear over the years from RX10's and One100's to NXG's and Reactor 9000's and everything in between.  The pads are OK, but like I said, not nearly as light as I was expecting.  Sliding is obviously really good, rebounds are similar to my R/GT Pros.  Not much else to say about them, feel kind of unstable.   

To me the gloves are the biggest disappointment.  The blocker is nearly identical to the Reactor 9000. Was always a fan of the balance and weight though, so its OK, just mostly unchanged in 4 years.  Not necessarily a bad thing, but durability definitely still an issue and lack of finger protection.  The catcher looks different with the 1 piece cuff, but it still has the same crappy closure the 6000 and 9000 gloves had.  Extremely stiff and very little grip inside the glove.  The feel is inconsistent and reminds me more of the 6000 than the 9000 in that regard.

I'm not bashing the set or anything, its all fine, but I guess I was just expecting something a little fresher.  The skin is tougher this time around, but the seams are weak.  I don't know if its the material or the craftsmanship.

Kind of sheds a bit of light for people who are saying Vaughn has never really changed their gear much lately, huh? Sorry it didn’t work out though 

[TheGoalNet]

7 hours ago, southpawtendy48 said:

Kind of sheds a bit of light for people who are saying Vaughn has never really changed their gear much lately, huh? Sorry it didn’t work out though 

Here's the big difference for me on this topic...

Bauer revolutionized the industry when they showed the 1S prototype back on GGSU and GSBB back about 5 years ago. No one had seen a "no cowling" skate before that. Vaughn has not done anything like since the OG Velocity pads which was like 2000? Since then, they have constantly been tweaking their line.

By contrast, Bauer had a major release and is now refining design based on consumer and pro feedback. I would agree that 2S and 2X and sort of "iPhone S" releases, but it's apples and oranges with Vaughn in comparing overall strategy and recent innovations.

In that same period Bauer also launched the no sew pad, printed graphics, and started a trend of new materials being used to enhance sliding.

[southpawtendy48]

5 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

Here's the big difference for me on this topic...

Bauer revolutionized the industry when they showed the 1S prototype back on GGSU and GSBB back about 5 years ago. No one had seen a "no cowling" skate before that. Vaughn has not done anything like since the OG Velocity pads which was like 2000? Since then, they have constantly been tweaking their line.

By contrast, Bauer had a major release and is now refining design based on consumer and pro feedback. I would agree that 2S and 2X and sort of "iPhone S" releases, but it's apples and oranges with Vaughn in comparing overall strategy and recent innovations.

In that same period Bauer also launched the no sew pad, printed graphics, and started a trend of new materials being used to enhance sliding.

If we’re talking about all around gear then yes you’re right, it’s just surprising to hear someone say that about Bauer’s gloves and that they don’t feel much different than older lines of gear

[jayluv54]

4 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

Here's the big difference for me on this topic...

Bauer revolutionized the industry when they showed the 1S prototype back on GGSU and GSBB back about 5 years ago. No one had seen a "no cowling" skate before that. Vaughn has not done anything like since the OG Velocity pads which was like 2000? Since then, they have constantly been tweaking their line.

By contrast, Bauer had a major release and is now refining design based on consumer and pro feedback. I would agree that 2S and 2X and sort of "iPhone S" releases, but it's apples and oranges with Vaughn in comparing overall strategy and recent innovations.

In that same period Bauer also launched the no sew pad, printed graphics, and started a trend of new materials being used to enhance sliding.

That being said, I don't think that certain innovations are for everyone.  Frankly, I think all that innovation is more of a hindrance for me than a benefit and that's coming from someone who has approached it with an open mind and open wallet.  The reality is that it can be very difficult to quantify what actually makes us better goalies..but its usually not the equipment.

There are still plenty of elite goalies out there with cowlings on their skates and leather straps on their pads.  Would they be better if they removed them?  Probably not.  Innovation is funny like that...if it's not solving a problem you had, it doesn't mean much.

[jayluv54]

4 minutes ago, southpawtendy48 said:

If we’re talking about all around gear then yes you’re right, it’s just surprising to hear someone say that about Bauer’s gloves and that they don’t feel much different than older lines of gear

I don't think the gloves have seen many changes.  They added Curv, which is probably more durable than plastic, but it really doesn't change the way the glove performs.  The blockers haven't changed at all.  Rebounds might be a little hotter, but don't really know because rebounds weren't getting the same attention 8 years ago.

[TheGoalNet]

2 hours ago, southpawtendy48 said:

If we’re talking about all around gear then yes you’re right, it’s just surprising to hear someone say that about Bauer’s gloves and that they don’t feel much different than older lines of gear

Agreed, but no one glove's have really changed. BOA for the wrist strap or Curve in blockers for hot rebounds are the only thing lately.

The Koho 590 glove hasn't changed much since the Reebok P3 and it's the best selling glove in Hockey. Gloves and blockers are due for some innovation!

[TheGoalNet]

7 hours ago, jayluv54 said:

That being said, I don't think that certain innovations are for everyone.  Frankly, I think all that innovation is more of a hindrance for me than a benefit and that's coming from someone who has approached it with an open mind and open wallet.  The reality is that it can be very difficult to quantify what actually makes us better goalies..but its usually not the equipment.

There are still plenty of elite goalies out there with cowlings on their skates and leather straps on their pads.  Would they be better if they removed them?  Probably not.  Innovation is funny like that...if it's not solving a problem you had, it doesn't mean much.

Do we need printed graphics? Nope. Do pads need any graphics at all? Nope.

I understand your point there and am not arguing with that.

For me that's a matter of opinion. As an example, that's basically CCM's internal philosophy. They only change things when they think it absolutely will make you a better goalie. They won't do anything just because it's "cool" or "fun". That's the reasons why the Premier series has very slowly evolved since the RBK P1. Innovations like a solid molded core made a more consistent and durable product. No one could see it and a lot of people don't under it and they sleep on CCM's innovations... but it was one of the most revolutionary things to happen to the pad since the first foam pads.

However, I think we can all agree that lighter pads make goaltending easier. You are faster moving around in the net and you get less fatigued throughout a game. If removing straps only saves a few grams, I get why people are cynical about the concept. But if companies can make something 10% lighter each product cycle and you buy new pads every 3rd cycle, you are getting something that is 30% lighter than your old stuff. That is a marked improvement. When it's looked under the context of each release each year, then it may seem trite.

For me... the new strapping is about comfort, responsiveness, and seal. I am not that concerned with the weight either. But I think it's clear that even on an NHL level the average goalie is down to 1 or less straps. I think that validates that removing straps has not harmed anyone either.

As for cowlings, same rationale as the straps can applied for me. I think at least 70% of pro goalie use some form of no cowling. Either a "holder" skate or the True 1 piece. We have not seen a significant increase in broken feet and that would be the main explanation for not switching to one.

[southpawtendy48]

3 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

Agreed, but no one glove's have really changed. BOA for the wrist strap or Curve in blockers for hot rebounds are the only thing lately.

The Koho 590 glove hasn't changed much since the Reebok P3 and it's the best selling glove in Hockey. Gloves and blockers are due for some innovation!

I mean if it ain’t broke don’t fix it I guess, it’s just more of a feel thing but I didn’t like the feel of the Bauer gloves at all, but I like their blockers. It’s also interesting to me though how a lot of pros are still using older Vaughn models as their current gloves, whereas you don’t see that much with other companies. 

[TheGoalNet]

59 minutes ago, southpawtendy48 said:

I mean if it ain’t broke don’t fix it I guess, it’s just more of a feel thing but I didn’t like the feel of the Bauer gloves at all, but I like their blockers. It’s also interesting to me though how a lot of pros are still using older Vaughn models as their current gloves, whereas you don’t see that much with other companies. 

This is my opinion, based on observation... not anything from a Vaughn. 

1. Vaughn plays with their gloves more than other company. As example, they constantly tweak / update the thumb angle, internal components, or closure of the T5500 style and mark the changes as a new model number. 

With this glove design philosophy they have more different glove variants and that will yield more pros using different models.

2. Vaughn seems to cater to their older lines more than any other line. Bauer refuses to make anything older OD1N and Vaughn still has guys with V2 strapping. I have a feeling that Vaughn as a company or their pro reps take the “If ain’t broke, don’t fix it approach” and don’t push their guys into the latest models 

[southpawtendy48]

25 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

This is my opinion, based on observation... not anything from a Vaughn. 

1. Vaughn plays with their gloves more than other company. As example, they constantly tweak / update the thumb angle, internal components, or closure of the T5500 style and mark the changes as a new model number. 

With this glove design philosophy they have more different glove variants and that will yield more pros using different models.

2. Vaughn seems to cater to their older lines more than any other line. Bauer refuses to make anything older OD1N and Vaughn still has guys with V2 strapping. I have a feeling that Vaughn as a company or their pro reps take the “If ain’t broke, don’t fix it approach” and don’t push their guys into the latest models 

Which will tend to have more guys sticking with it than newer goalies or people who haven’t used Vaughn going for their gloves let alone their older models. I’m a rarity as I used to have a CCM premier 590 but use the LT98 currently and am still looking at older-ish models that might suit me better