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TheGoalNet

Custom Skate Works for Vasi

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Hmmm, that's interesting. Could be a nice option for guys like Price who still use a cowling, but this option may be able to provide them with the protection they need without the added bulk. I like it.

Vasi coming up huge (in the highlight reels) and in the skate protection conversation.

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3 hours ago, dualshowman said:

So, he essentially added... a cowling? 

This not a cowling replacement. It’s on the outside edge of his boot and goes to the ankle. A cowling never went there... 

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2 hours ago, creasecollector said:

Hmmm, that's interesting. Could be a nice option for guys like Price who still use a cowling, but this option may be able to provide them with the protection they need without the added bulk. I like it.

Vasi coming up huge (in the highlight reels) and in the skate protection conversation.

Price uses a cowling because of the height of the cowling, not because of the desire to have padding. The inside of his cowling is all cut open and his foot is exposed 

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I don't see much about this product available at retail. But judging by IG they're sending out sheets of the laminated material for Equipment Managers to custom cut to whatever they're applying to. Guessing it's applied via adhesive as well given I don't see any stitching.

image.png.691b9f95fab6ec5228262c45bdb0ddb6.png

image.png.b349f4c73812abbf519b4c6d7e7543c5.png

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9 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

This not a cowling replacement. It’s on the outside edge of his boot and goes to the ankle. A cowling never went there... 

Not really sure what this is for...

A while ago there was a thread where the comments were made that a cowling wasn't necessary as "no one makes skate saves any more" as it is an "outdated move". Well if that's unnecessary, I don't know what you'd call a save with the outside of the skate. And if anyone says an errant tip could hit the outside of the skate - I would say it is just as likely if not more that one would hit the inside of the skate...

It also seems that one of the two main plusses of a cowlingless skate is weight reduction, so why add some?

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30 minutes ago, Colander said:

Not really sure what this is for...

A while ago there was a thread where the comments were made that a cowling wasn't necessary as "no one makes skate saves any more" as it is an "outdated move". Well if that's unnecessary, I don't know what you'd call a save with the outside of the skate. And if anyone says an errant tip could hit the outside of the skate - I would say it is just as likely if not more that one would hit the inside of the skate...

It also seems that one of the two main plusses of a cowlingless skate is weight reduction, so why add some?

First off... the statement regarding current save/blocking technique is accurate. Skate saves  a la Bill Ranford are not only no longer seen regularly... they rare rarely seen at all.  

Secondly... One thing you will also notice is that a pad sat down much lower on a skate than they do now. So when you combine changing technique and exposed skate... there is a larger opportunity for a puck to hit the outside of a boot.

As for the advantages of cowlingless... to name a few...

  • weight reduction
  • increased energy transfer
  • better attack angle

Lastly... the topic is Vasi specific. A guy who not only makes Gumby saves where a hit against the outside of the boot is more than possible... but who is also coming off having a broken foot. If this was every goaltender in the NHL who wears cowlingless skates... then maybe something should be further evaluated.

Image result for bill ranford skate save  Image result for 1990's nhl goalies  

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24 minutes ago, BadAngle41 said:

First off... the statement regarding current save/blocking technique is accurate. Skate saves  a la Bill Ranford are not only no longer seen regularly... they rare rarely seen at all.  

Secondly... One thing you will also notice is that a pad sat down much lower on a skate than they do now. So when you combine changing technique and exposed skate... there is a larger opportunity for a puck to hit the outside of a boot.

As for the advantages of cowlingless... to name a few...

  • weight reduction
  • increased energy transfer
  • better attack angle

Lastly... the topic is Vasi specific. A guy who not only makes Gumby saves where a hit against the outside of the boot is more than possible... but who is also coming off having a broken foot. If this was every goaltender in the NHL who wears cowlingless skates... then maybe something should be further evaluated.

Image result for bill ranford skate save  Image result for 1990's nhl goalies  

To add onto this, this also a reality of the posts beating up on composite boots. It's why all the Bauer boots have a piece plastic in the mid foot.

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14 hours ago, dualshowman said:

So, he essentially added... a cowling? 

he added shot blockers

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22 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

This not a cowling replacement. It’s on the outside edge of his boot and goes to the ankle. A cowling never went there... 

Well, I was offering my snide comment as tongue-in-cheek, but there were cowlings that largely 'went there', like the ICM cowlings of my youth: 

daoust-301-goalie-skates-size-5-never_1_

11 hours ago, jayluv54 said:

he added shot blockers

Wait... he added what? Am I to understand that our skates are once again being used to stop pucks? So when that asshole at a pickup/rat/shinny is yelling at me to 'Stand up!!!!' I should follow his orders? I'm about to cut the cheater off of my gloves. I'll be right back...

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11 hours ago, dualshowman said:

Well, I was offering my snide comment as tongue-in-cheek, but there were cowlings that largely 'went there', like the ICM cowlings of my youth: 

daoust-301-goalie-skates-size-5-never_1_

Wait... he added what? Am I to understand that our skates are once again being used to stop pucks? So when that asshole at a pickup/rat/shinny is yelling at me to 'Stand up!!!!' I should follow his orders? I'm about to cut the cheater off of my gloves. I'll be right back...

@dualshowman - that’s still nothing like the padding running up the ankle collar and covering the whole ankle. 

He added padding for erriant pucks in weird places, not to intentionally take pucks off the arch

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45 minutes ago, dualshowman said:

Better?

89A30CB3-7855-4AF4-B31D-E98377923428.jpeg

6B8DE7C6-4C79-4120-9C6D-087D1426FD2A.jpeg

05504302-0C97-4EC1-AF4C-CC1750C11C3D.jpeg

Still nope. This is a thin layer of foam to cover the whole boot. This maintains attack angle, light weight, and no gaps on the side boot.

If you’re loyal to a cowling I respect that. But argueing cowlings still add a statsically significant amount of additional injury protection seems silly to me. Pro goalies rarely open up and expose their inner foot when making a save. 

Between True and Bauer, probably 75% of goalies have ditched the cowling. Injuries are not up by 75%, 50%, etc. a guy or two a year is going to injuried in the foot. That’s the reality of the position. 

If companies want to focus on 1 single thing to make the game safer, it should be masks. The mask has barely evolved in 40 years and concussions are way up 

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11 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

Still nope. This is a thin layer of foam to cover the whole boot. This maintains attack angle, light weight, and no gaps on the side boot.

If you’re loyal to a cowling I respect that. But argueing cowlings still add a statsically significant amount of additional injury protection seems silly to me. Pro goalies rarely open up and expose their inner foot when making a save. 

Umm - going back to the response by @BadAngle41 to my original comment, he states:

"Secondly... One thing you will also notice is that a pad sat down much lower on a skate than they do now. So when you combine changing technique and exposed skate... there is a larger opportunity for a puck to hit the outside of a boot. how goalies are wearing their pads "

This is very true and I have noticed this. So a shot to the (outside of the) skate because the pad was raised up, still does as much damage as a shot taken to the inside of the skate via a skate save. The fact Vasi put on the foam seems to support the concern.

Seems cowlings need to make a comeback...

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5 hours ago, Colander said:

Seems cowlings need to make a comeback

Not quite. This is a rare enough occurrence and a unique enough place that this seems like a reasonable solution for now. 

@dualshowman's last post is the only one I've seen where a cowling would actually cover any significant outside portion of the ankle.

Don't get me wrong, I hope cowlings stick around in one form or another for those that want/need them. But I imagine that companies will just find a way to "bullet proof" their boot material in the coming years if it's a real need. 

I do wonder what goalie equipment would look like today if it was designed from a perspective of possibly making a save with every surface on our bodies though

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6 hours ago, Colander said:

Umm - going back to the response by @BadAngle41 to my original comment, he states:

"Secondly... One thing you will also notice is that a pad sat down much lower on a skate than they do now. So when you combine changing technique and exposed skate... there is a larger opportunity for a puck to hit the outside of a boot. how goalies are wearing their pads "

This is very true and I have noticed this. So a shot to the (outside of the) skate because the pad was raised up, still does as much damage as a shot taken to the inside of the skate via a skate save. The fact Vasi put on the foam seems to support the concern.

Seems cowlings need to make a comeback...

No cowlings don’t.

Do skates potentially need something like Vasi has to protect the outside of the boot? Sure, maybe the evolution of the position has created a new padding gap. As always, the detail @BadAngle41 adds to his posts and the pictures are great illustrations. 

A giant plastic injection molded shell that holds the runner is not the solution. Some sort of light weight padding is... maybe a layer of Poron or D3O on the outside of the boot? 

@Mroy31 summed this up pretty well. I’m not anti cowling. I respect not changing your set up if you’re happy with it, but that doesn’t mean the industry made a mistake and we’re all worse off for not having cowlings 

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22 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

Still nope. This is a thin layer of foam to cover the whole boot. This maintains attack angle, light weight, and no gaps on the side boot.

If you’re loyal to a cowling I respect that. But argueing cowlings still add a statsically significant amount of additional injury protection seems silly to me. Pro goalies rarely open up and expose their inner foot when making a save. 

Between True and Bauer, probably 75% of goalies have ditched the cowling. Injuries are not up by 75%, 50%, etc. a guy or two a year is going to injuried in the foot. That’s the reality of the position. 

If companies want to focus on 1 single thing to make the game safer, it should be masks. The mask has barely evolved in 40 years and concussions are way up 

I appear to be involved in debate, argument or friendly conversation in which I have taken a stance on something... which I haven’t. There once was more obvious ‘protection’ on the outside of a goalie skate as a result of the cowling. That has clearly decreased over time to the point were we have cowlingless skates. My follow-up posts demonstrate the progression and the precedents set by cowlings. 

I never stated that a cowling was offering more protection or that I was loyal to cowlings. I have to reference with which to compare. I made a snide remark about Vasi adding protection to a cowlingless skate, nothing more. Attack angle, weight, no gaps? I didn’t realize I was obligated to address those in an argument I wasn’t even making...

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@dualshowman - anytime I comment or challenge someone, it’s NEVER meant to be anything other than a friendly debate or to start a conversation 

If you can’t tell, I’m pretty passionate that getting rid of the cowling was a major step forward 

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5 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

@dualshowman - anytime I comment or challenge someone, it’s NEVER meant to be anything other than a friendly debate or to start a conversation 

If you can’t tell, I’m pretty passionate that getting rid of the cowling was a major step forward 

My sense of humor often doesn't translate well. I believe this is one of those times. 

I get that, and I believe that the performance benefit is palpable for those at all levels. Having broken multiple toes over the years (although many years ago) and an ankle, I'll likely be a late adopter

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