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Tim_TRUEHockey

TRUE Goalie Skates - 1 Piece vs. 2 Piece

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2 hours ago, Majik said:

As soon as True makes a MUCH lighter goalie skate, I'll be buying. I have a problem with off-the-shelf goalie skates in that my right ankle doesn't sit on the foam, it sits right near the eyelets and ends up pushing the foam back into the boot after a couple of months - which leads to the medial malleolus pushing against the sidewall... pretty much like playing with a rock stuck between your ankle and the skate boot. So having a custom pair made is definitely in my future, but these skates are heavy - (coming from the bauer x900).

IDK about the two piece, but now that I’ve handled the one piece in person, I suspect that they really can’t make it any lighter. The main feature of the one piece is the rock solid connection (ie, no connection at all - just one unit) between the “boot” and the “holder”, which they achieve with layers of carbon/composite. 

I’m not exaggerating when I say you can feel in your hands the difference between the stiffness of the boot/holder connection on the one piece vs any other boot/holder or boot/cowling combo. This, combined with the custom fit, is where the “zero” energy loss idea comes from. Of course I don’t have mine yet so I can’t personally attest to it but that’s the idea at least!

So anyway, I have a hard time seeing how they can achieve that level of strength with lighter construction or materials, but who knows. Carbon nanotubes maybe??

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3 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

IMO you want to be slightly pitched forward anyway.  A lot of beer league goalies I've seen around here look like they're doing wall squats.

Having your skates/steel pitch you forward makes it easier to get your shoulders and forward to sort of envelop the puck as it comes in.

Yeah I thought about this too but on balance I really feel like the aggressive forward pitch hurts my lateral skating (t pushes mainly). It’s also a function of the overall height. Either way, I realize I’m taking a big, only somewhat educated, gamble on these but at least with pitch I figure I can change that a little bit with the blade profile if really necessary. 

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@Tim_TRUEHockey or anyone else, can someone please confirm the diameter of the toe strap hole (and the other holes in the holder, for that matter) on the one piece skate? Trying to figure out if standard size Pro Laces and/or HALs will fit through. Thanks!

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3 hours ago, Punisher Goalie said:

@Tim_TRUEHockey or anyone else, can someone please confirm the diameter of the toe strap hole (and the other holes in the holder, for that matter) on the one piece skate? Trying to figure out if standard size Pro Laces and/or HALs will fit through. Thanks!

If its like it used to be, you could get them actually drilled any size you wanted (within reason).

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On 3/31/2018 at 6:43 AM, Punisher Goalie said:

IDK about the two piece, but now that I’ve handled the one piece in person, I suspect that they really can’t make it any lighter. The main feature of the one piece is the rock solid connection (ie, no connection at all - just one unit) between the “boot” and the “holder”, which they achieve with layers of carbon/composite. 

I’m not exaggerating when I say you can feel in your hands the difference between the stiffness of the boot/holder connection on the one piece vs any other boot/holder or boot/cowling combo. This, combined with the custom fit, is where the “zero” energy loss idea comes from. Of course I don’t have mine yet so I can’t personally attest to it but that’s the idea at least!

So anyway, I have a hard time seeing how they can achieve that level of strength with lighter construction or materials, but who knows. Carbon nanotubes maybe??

I hear ya, but as it is now, I'm in the Bauer x900s (no cowling), and those are some REALLY light skates (2-piece of course). the only issue I have with them though is that my right ankle is pitched forward a bit so it's at the point where it has pushed back the memory foam in the lining from all the back and forth movement and now it's literally resting against the skate sidewall - "ouch" to say the least lol.

I went and tried every single skate they had in the store and it's clear if I buy another pair it would just be a repeat of the x900s... so getting a custom boot made is my best option, but damn - feels like i'm holding a brick in my hand (compared to the Bauers). That said - comfort (no pain) over a bit of weight... shouldn't even be a question. I'll go take another look at them. 

wonder if anyone at True can tell me there's any way we can shave some weight on the one piece or no? 

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5 hours ago, Majik said:

I hear ya, but as it is now, I'm in the Bauer x900s (no cowling), and those are some REALLY light skates (2-piece of course). the only issue I have with them though is that my right ankle is pitched forward a bit so it's at the point where it has pushed back the memory foam in the lining from all the back and forth movement and now it's literally resting against the skate sidewall - "ouch" to say the least lol.

I went and tried every single skate they had in the store and it's clear if I buy another pair it would just be a repeat of the x900s... so getting a custom boot made is my best option, but damn - feels like i'm holding a brick in my hand (compared to the Bauers). That said - comfort (no pain) over a bit of weight... shouldn't even be a question. I'll go take another look at them. 

wonder if anyone at True can tell me there's any way we can shave some weight on the one piece or no? 

They are definitely going to be heavier than Bauers, no question. But like you said, the fit and comfort make the weight difference so unimportant. It's not like we as goalies are skating around the ice all night like a forward would be. 

The only way you can shave weight off is going to be to have them cut larger holes in the holder area, but you're going to hit that line between weight and structural integrity at SOME point (I have no idea where). With all of that being carbon fibre, you're not going to notice it enough to bother. 

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11 hours ago, Majik said:

I hear ya, but as it is now, I'm in the Bauer x900s (no cowling), and those are some REALLY light skates (2-piece of course). the only issue I have with them though is that my right ankle is pitched forward a bit so it's at the point where it has pushed back the memory foam in the lining from all the back and forth movement and now it's literally resting against the skate sidewall - "ouch" to say the least lol.

I went and tried every single skate they had in the store and it's clear if I buy another pair it would just be a repeat of the x900s... so getting a custom boot made is my best option, but damn - feels like i'm holding a brick in my hand (compared to the Bauers). That said - comfort (no pain) over a bit of weight... shouldn't even be a question. I'll go take another look at them. 

wonder if anyone at True can tell me there's any way we can shave some weight on the one piece or no? 

5 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

They are definitely going to be heavier than Bauers, no question. But like you said, the fit and comfort make the weight difference so unimportant. It's not like we as goalies are skating around the ice all night like a forward would be. 

The only way you can shave weight off is going to be to have them cut larger holes in the holder area, but you're going to hit that line between weight and structural integrity at SOME point (I have no idea where). With all of that being carbon fibre, you're not going to notice it enough to bother. 

+1 you can definitely feel that they're heavier, but the fact that theres almost zero negative space in the skate makes the weight a non-factor. 

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I'm running into an issue where I can't decide between the 1 piece and the two piece skates. I just got the Bauer 1S skates about 4 months ago, but these have been killing my ankles, to the point where it hurts too much to skate, so I'm going to be getting the True's for a custom fit to fix this...

My dilemma is that I can't decide whether to go with the more traditional one piece or the two piece with the attack angle. I've liked the attack angle on the 1S, but I do somewhat miss the traditional feel of my old Bauer reactors with the lower style of boot.

I do have a couple questions if anyone on this thread could answer.

1. What are the advantages/disadvantages of having a 1 piece or a 2 piece (I know about the attack angle and the energy loss, but besides that is there anything significant or is it more just preference?)

2. Would it be worth it to get the reinforced boot or is the normal boot protective enough on its own?
 

Thanks!

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I have no experience with either skate so take my opinion with a grain of salt.  If I were to ever get True skates I would get the two piece for the sole reason of the possibility of the holder portion of the one piece cracking.  I'd rather be able to replace a plastic holder than have to get composite fixed.

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2 minutes ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

I have no experience with either skate so take my opinion with a grain of salt.  If I were to ever get True skates I would get the two piece for the sole reason of the possibility of the holder portion of the one piece cracking.  I'd rather be able to replace a plastic holder than have to get composite fixed.

Plus with a two piece you acquire the ability to use different rockers/cowlings.

I'd definitely rock the AS1 cowling on a true skate.

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7 minutes ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

I have no experience with either skate so take my opinion with a grain of salt.  If I were to ever get True skates I would get the two piece for the sole reason of the possibility of the holder portion of the one piece cracking.  I'd rather be able to replace a plastic holder than have to get composite fixed.

Composite is very easy to repair; however- you’re locked in with the one piece. Why do that to yourself?

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13 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Plus with a two piece you acquire the ability to use different rockers/cowlings.

I'd definitely rock the AS1 cowling on a true skate.

CCM Attack Holder would be roughly the same as Bauer Vertexx in attack angle anyways. Good option for those who want 4mm steel and bit more toe protection on their 2 pieces. 

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5 minutes ago, Kayen said:

CCM Attack Holder would be roughly the same as Bauer Vertexx in attack angle anyways. Good option for those who want 4mm steel and bit more toe protection on their 2 pieces. 

Agreed. I think there is a real place for this in the market. I wonder if it kills the OG Vertexx. 

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15 minutes ago, Kayen said:

CCM Attack Holder would be roughly the same as Bauer Vertexx in attack angle anyways. Good option for those who want 4mm steel and bit more toe protection on their 2 pieces. 

Plus less height in your stance than compared to the Bauer and 2pc True holders.

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4 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Plus less height in your stance than compared to the Bauer and 2pc True holders.

I compared both over the weekend, and found them very close to the Bauer holders. There was a TRUE 2 piece in store too, but I didn't have the time to compare. Should've though. 

4 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

Agreed. I think there is a real place for this in the market. I wonder if it kills the OG Vertexx. 

I too wonder. I'm trying to get my hands on the attack holder right now as well, and one key advantage i'm hearing is that it comes with the CCM black steel by default, so i don't immediately have to upgrade my steel. For newer TRUE skates, they make for a very enticing alternative. 

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seems odd that True couldn’t partner or develop a new mold for a goalie specific holder. They obviously appreciate the market’s desire for a lower profile skate with their 1 piece unit.

Id consider ditching my cowling on my Graf dm1080s but I don’t like the added height on the step player holder and vertexx.

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13 hours ago, dstew29 said:

seems odd that True couldn’t partner or develop a new mold for a goalie specific holder. They obviously appreciate the market’s desire for a lower profile skate with their 1 piece unit.

Id consider ditching my cowling on my Graf dm1080s but I don’t like the added height on the step player holder and vertexx.

I don't understand your first sentence. That's EXACTLY what they did. They worked directly with Step to develop the Step holder. 

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"Goalie specific"?

Image result for step holder true skates

Related image

I could be completely wrong but these appear to be the exact same holders, save for the triangular punch out near the toe...

If they are the same (punchout aside) my point was simply why not make a "goalie specific" holder that would emulate the height of the 1 piece unit?

I'm not knocking True at all by the way. This is just my personal preference for something that isn't available yet...

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1 hour ago, dstew29 said:

"Goalie specific"?

I could be completely wrong but these appear to be the exact same holders, save for the triangular punch out near the toe...

If they are the same (punchout aside) my point was simply why not make a "goalie specific" holder that would emulate the height of the 1 piece unit?

I'm not knocking True at all by the way. This is just my personal preference for something that isn't available yet...

Yeah, I agree with you. It seems like True tried hard to develop a holder that can be incorporated as both a player and goalie holder. And while I think it looks better as a goalie holder, I don't like it at all. Maybe it's just an optical illusion, but the radius of the holder looked way too short for a goalie especially compared to the Vertexx Edge. I know you can change radius fairly easily with the steel too, but I didn't want to risk it.

A VERY solid option is to just order the boot and put your favourite holder on it. It's what I did, as I think the Vertexx Edge is a nearly perfect cowlingless holder. With the new CCM holder, there's now 3 or 4 very solid options to choose from.

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1 hour ago, dstew29 said:

"Goalie specific"?

Image result for step holder true skates

Related image

I could be completely wrong but these appear to be the exact same holders, save for the triangular punch out near the toe...

If they are the same (punchout aside) my point was simply why not make a "goalie specific" holder that would emulate the height of the 1 piece unit?

I'm not knocking True at all by the way. This is just my personal preference for something that isn't available yet...

Sure, but why make two holders if one does the job?

I actually kind of like it. I could have a set of player steel and a set of goalie steel and use either depending on situation. 

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On May 3, 2018 at 10:48 AM, dstew29 said:

"Goalie specific"?

Image result for step holder true skates

Related image

I could be completely wrong but these appear to be the exact same holders, save for the triangular punch out near the toe...

If they are the same (punchout aside) my point was simply why not make a "goalie specific" holder that would emulate the height of the 1 piece unit?

I'm not knocking True at all by the way. This is just my personal preference for something that isn't available yet...

To be clear - the 2 piece is taller than the 1 piece. So I'm not sure why goalies would want us to emulate the height of the one piece.

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On 5/3/2018 at 11:51 AM, IPv6Freely said:

Sure, but why make two holders if one does the job?

I actually kind of like it. I could have a set of player steel and a set of goalie steel and use either depending on situation. 

I second @IPv6Freely here. If you don't like aesthetic, that is okay. That's a matter of opinion and there's no wrong answer. Some people like Tuuks and some people like Cobra's 

However, if they can engineer 1 product to serve both boots, who cares? That saves on tooling costs and development costs. Should be a cost savings for consumers and reduces the time it took True / Step to get to market with this. 

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8 minutes ago, TestAdmin said:

Some goalies like to be closer to the ice. While having a better attack angle is great for lateral movements, getting lower in you stance (making you wider), and butterfly movement, increased height makes it more physically demanding to get back on your feet. Some goalies also feel a "disconnect" from the ice when they are too tall. I personally think it is all about a balance between the height and the attack angle. While the industry just removed the cowling (ie material between boot and ice) and thus made the attack angle better without a change in height, there is not much more that can be shaved off. We have reached a point where it is height vs attack angle and comes down to personal preference. The height of the VH two piece scares me away. It seems a little too much to me. The one-piece might be too low for me and I don't think would be a right fit for what I am looking for in terms of durability, feel, and height/attack angle. I am considering Bauer vertexx with regular step or the new CCM cowling with extreme step.

Yes we're very aware of goalies' varying preferences in terms of blade height, pitch, etc.

One thing you could consider is going with a boot-only option with us and then putting on whichever holder/cowling you prefer.  Saves you about $150 upfront.

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7 minutes ago, Tim_TRUEHockey said:

Yes we're very aware of goalies' varying preferences in terms of blade height, pitch, etc.

One thing you could consider is going with a boot-only option with us and then putting on whichever holder/cowling you prefer.  Saves you about $150 upfront.

Does True still offer the ability to cut a specific size and shape of the holes in the 1-piece? They did back in the VH days but not sure if that's changed. 

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@Tim_TRUEHockey - Please note: The "TestAdmin" account is for site maintenance. The user using the account probably forgot to log out and log in with their traditional user name. Please note that comment is not an "official" TheGoalNet.com opinion. As with all comments, that's a unique users's opinion. That was not my post either. 

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