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The Mask Thread


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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/20/2017 at 3:52 AM, Punisher Goalie said:

Not to beat this horse any further, but Sportmask says it uses a “carbon fiber composite” shell, so curious how their particular flavor compares to others. Not clear where and how much carbon is in the mask.

I'm not sure if I posted this here before; I did on GSBB back in the day.

My buddy custom ordered a Sportmask T3 when we worked retail 10 or so years ago.  Had it painted by Marlene Ross (biggest mistake ever).

She lost the cage that he shipped with it.  Just *gone*.  Without consulting him, she put another cage on it, but drilled new holes for it to fit.

So he gets this mangled, half assed "paint job" (I use that term loosely when it comes to her work) with a cheapo cage. 

He paid full price for it, paid via money order (she didn't take credit card, I can see why); she refused to make any concessions for him.

We take a quick look at it...

There's a crack running down the "carbon fiber" along the middle symmetrical line of the mask, going from the back of the crown straight down center to the bottom of the chin.
I'm thinking the "carbon fiber" that Sportmask uses is a lot like the "carbon fiber" that Vaughn uses.  Real carbon fiber has a brownish tint to it - I've seen threads of raw carbon fiber and they looked nothing like the stuff being used in Sportmask and Vaughn product.

I am by no means a material expert, but you look at all the carbon fiber/composite sticks being used today - it's a super lightweight material, but look at the breakage rates.  Is there any way you'd want that on your head?

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On 10/31/2017 at 6:38 PM, Chenner29 said:

I'm not sure if I posted this here before; I did on GSBB back in the day.

My buddy custom ordered a Sportmask T3 when we worked retail 10 or so years ago.  Had it painted by Marlene Ross (biggest mistake ever).

She lost the cage that he shipped with it.  Just *gone*.  Without consulting him, she put another cage on it, but drilled new holes for it to fit.

So he gets this mangled, half assed "paint job" (I use that term loosely when it comes to her work) with a cheapo cage. 

He paid full price for it, paid via money order (she didn't take credit card, I can see why); she refused to make any concessions for him.

We take a quick look at it...

There's a crack running down the "carbon fiber" along the middle symmetrical line of the mask, going from the back of the crown straight down center to the bottom of the chin.
I'm thinking the "carbon fiber" that Sportmask uses is a lot like the "carbon fiber" that Vaughn uses.  Real carbon fiber has a brownish tint to it - I've seen threads of raw carbon fiber and they looked nothing like the stuff being used in Sportmask and Vaughn product.

I am by no means a material expert, but you look at all the carbon fiber/composite sticks being used today - it's a super lightweight material, but look at the breakage rates.  Is there any way you'd want that on your head?

Carbon fibre can be laminated with different resins imparting different colours. Epoxy is amber, poly resin cures brownish. 

There are many grades of carbon fibre. Carbon fibre can do many things. You have to remember with a hockey stick that there is a LOT of twisting and impact, even more than a masque would EVER receive. You can use a bit of carbon to make a mostly kevlar masque deflect a LOT less. It all depends where it is in the layup. If it is outside, it is, at most, cosmetic; isually with a scrim coat of fine fibreglass over  top for easy finishing. Heck- I used to dye fibreglass to give a carbon “look” on bike frames as it draped much easier than carbon fibre (and thusly told my customers) and was easy to smooth. 

I understand and respects Protechsport’s reluctance to use carbon fibre, but I would not immediately dismiss carbon, either.

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6 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

Marlene Ross was the painter of choice for Reebok before Griffe. The paint job part of the story blows my mind 

How was she so bad? What happened to her?

Okay so I'll elaborate a bit more.

I worked with two other guys at Hockeymonkey/Goaliemonkey maybe 10 years ago.  We are still friends today, which is crazy to me.

Anyway, they are both in the market to get their masks painted.  One of them (Jerry) is a huge fan of Quebecois goalies and liked the connection between Ross and these guys so he contacted her.  She was a sweetheart on the phone and he was sold.  My other buddy Chris talked to her too, and decided to send his in around the same time as well.

So Jerry gets his mask back, absolutely mangled.  Brand new Sportmask T3, was never worn.  Crack down the center on the inside, a godawful beak looking cage got mounted on it.  She refuses to fix it, compensate him for the damaged mask, lost cage, or anything.

Chris gets his mask back several months later (remember- they shipped theirs within 2 weeks of each other).  We were at the point of just declaring it a loss after seeing what happened to Jerry's (lost cage? how about she loses a mask this time??)  She promised for 6 weeks straight that it was done and shipping next day.
He eventually gets it.  He asked for mountains in the background of his mask.  He got trees.  I don't think his was even clearcoated.

Quality of the work up close is pretty amateurish.  Look at her website.  That grainy 1998 look is how her stuff appears up close.  Just really unfinished and unpolished. 
I'm not surprised CCM/Reebok dumped her.  Griffe is a far superior artist.

To "illustrate" my point

Check out these Cujo masks side by side (notice the blacked out Itech logo on the right). 
Both are for the same player and most likely the same shell, unless Joseph changed mask molds in this time frame.
Left is a Cipra paintjob, right something done by Ross.
All in all, same canvas, same concept, completely different execution.

In terms of artistic talent, attention to detail, and utilizing the curves of the mask to accentuate the work -

  • way more detail on the Cipra side.  Check out the  detail on the nose and fur, really fine brush work
  • look at how Cipra used the ridges at the forehead to give a more pronounced effect to the muzzle and teeth
    • compare that to what Ross did, it looks like she was drawing on a flat piece of paper and worked around the ridges instead of with them
    • I'd say hers looks more like a mildly upset Sully (from Monsters Inc) than a mythical wolf creature thing.
  • look under the teeth above the window on Ross'.  Solid flat black.  No depth. Just plain lazy.

... I could go on for days...

image.png.9cd08d8077c9bc3cf9fd6174989b0ed5.pngimage.png.03023ed6d89d07235713317e8e5feeb1.png

 

Edit:

Screw it, let's play portraits too.

Mike Smith's "Tragically Hip" (?) tribute mask vs. Cipra's Maple Leaf legends (I wanna say this was Raycroft's mask?)

image.png.856342f51e5c8495475f79244d5aff04.pngimage.png.d44cddbef0dfc336f2b99e2dd74ddb09.png

Edited by Chenner29
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I've seen a couple of masks painted by her up close up and all of the details and highlights were brushed on. And neither of those were clearcoated either, which I found strange. Her work tends to have a brush look to it because she's not a true airbrush artist like Cipra is. Her designs have always had a stenciled look with minimal airbrushing (mostly just fades). It's almost like she's a holdover from the Harrison era of mask painting, with bold designs and minimal colours. And while she was never one of my favourites, her Hextall Quebec polar bear mask remains one of my top five favourite designs. 

Cipra is just amazing! I could live 1000 years and never be that good. Although I was told that he was a very flaky guy to deal with. Always delays with him, even if you were in the NHL.

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3 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

@Chenner29 - huge value add, thanks for sharing!

Blows my mind. I was a boarderline Lefebvre fan boy back in the day. I wanted a Protechsport with Marlene Ross paint job... thankfully that never happened 

Dilly dilly 

Here's another thing.

I don't think television standards changing to HD did her any favors.

It's one thing to see her stuff on the grainy, old standard but look at how sharp TV picture is now, you can really see a lot of the fine details.

1 hour ago, parebele said:

I've seen a couple of masks painted by her up close up and all of the details and highlights were brushed on. And neither of those were clearcoated either, which I found strange. Her work tends to have a brush look to it because she's not a true airbrush artist like Cipra is. Her designs have always had a stenciled look with minimal airbrushing (mostly just fades). It's almost like she's a holdover from the Harrison era of mask painting, with bold designs and minimal colours. And while she was never one of my favourites, her Hextall Quebec polar bear mask remains one of my top five favourite designs. 

Cipra is just amazing! I could live 1000 years and never be that good. Although I was told that he was a very flaky guy to deal with. Always delays with him, even if you were in the NHL.

I'm with you on the Hextall.  The Hackett headdress from Chicago was a great concept, too.

But at the blobs of light on the Smith mask and Dr Evil clone frontmanning for the Hip. 

I feel like she put out a few solid designs, got to mail it in while riding out her reputation for a bit, and then people realized there were better artists out there.

My Pro's Choice is on the way to Cipra now.  Absolute gentleman to deal with so far.  I'm fine with delays in paint as long as the end product looks good.
In a way, I think all mask painters march to their own beat.  When I was shopping around for painters, I sent out a bunch of emails, texts, and made a few phone calls.  There's still some who have not responded and I started looking in August...

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2 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

My Pro's Choice is on the way to Cipra now.  Absolute gentleman to deal with so far.  I'm fine with delays in paint as long as the end product looks good.
In a way, I think all mask painters march to their own beat.  When I was shopping around for painters, I sent out a bunch of emails, texts, and made a few phone calls.  There's still some who have not responded and I started looking in August...

The goalie that told me that played NHL and dealt with him in the '90s so a lot has probably changed. I'd kill to be his apprentice. Sometimes I think I'm decent but then I see his work and think 'no, I suck'.

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6 minutes ago, parebele said:

The goalie that told me that played NHL and dealt with him in the '90s so a lot has probably changed. I'd kill to be his apprentice. Sometimes I think I'm decent but then I see his work and think 'no, I suck'.

Mine would look like finger paint compared to yours!

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2 hours ago, cwarnar said:

Which model is it?  Can you post your specs?

It's the 3:13 Pro model with single bar cage, stock neoprene blend foam, chin cup, regular back plate, no external logos. White window added. 

Matthew Gibbons was great to deal with.  He and Ron sent pictures throughout the process. Start to finish (shipping) date was 30 days. 

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