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League Ridiculousness


IPv6Freely

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Yes, @IPv6Freely it seems that there is no parity in amateur sport. One rink was trying like mad to get me to field a team, but literally, it was current and former teams from two of the local NCAA schools. We would have been the goats. When I found out who the teams were, I said thanks, but no. 

There are HNA leagues around here, and there is literally one team that has 3 leagues above ability and depth (literally one true novice) and are still allowed to play novice!!!! I wish I were kidding!!!!

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3 hours ago, mik said:

This just happens often in amateur sport, when there is one team with evidently better players. It is sometimes frustrating to play against them, but when you beat them in the match...nice to see their reactions ;)

Yea, their two losses are against us. Two games where we actually had more than 6-7 players show up. Imagine that. We also beat them in the finals last season after they had started to ramp up their talent (they were previously a bottom team in the league). They replaced their below-average (about my skill level) goalie with a guy from Div3. They added 2-3 buddies from D4. 

On the flip side, our team is now comprised of mostly guys who moved up from the Rookie division (Div 6). In fact, since nobody ever seems to show up, on some nights that's our entire team. Our top two defencemen left the team after last season. Now our top two defencemen are guys who moved up. They have decent enough skill but not enough experience to make smart plays and either pinch when they shouldn't, or turn the puck over, etc. 

I personally don't think teams should be allowed to recruit from the upper divisions. A sub here or there because they are short (and the game before ours is always D4 game) is fine.

3 hours ago, bunnyman666 said:

Yes, @IPv6Freely it seems that there is no parity in amateur sport. One rink was trying like mad to get me to field a team, but literally, it was current and former teams from two of the local NCAA schools. We would have been the goats. When I found out who the teams were, I said thanks, but no. 

There are HNA leagues around here, and there is literally one team that has 3 leagues above ability and depth (literally one true novice) and are still allowed to play novice!!!! I wish I were kidding!!!!

Our parity was actually really good prior to two seasons ago. All four teams were within 6 points of each other. This season three of the four teams are going to end up 1 point apart from each other (final regular season game is this sunday) and all three of them with a losing record. There's only one team who is an issue. It would be easy to fix, too. Just make the goalie and their guy who scores 4-5 goals a game move up. 

We actually got an email from the league director yesterday specifically addressing it, though his suggestion is a bit odd. He's trying to add two more teams to the league so that instead of fixing the parity, we just don't have to get our asses kicked every 3 weeks. It will be every 5 instead. Good plan, idiot! Oh, and since he needs another time slot, we will now have 10:15PM games on Wednesdays. Because we weren't already having enough of an issue getting people to show up at 9PM on sundays... 

 

I might as well throw in my suggestion for teams using D4 subs as well into this thread. My suggestion is: You can play the game with 1 higher-division sub, maximum. If you're so short you need more than 1, that's fine, you can play the game, but it will be a forfeit. 

 

I'd also like to see a mercy rule. 5 goals differential, the game is over. It would keep things from getting ridiculous and having meatheads being idiots out there. Sure there's always the "it's possible to come back from being down 5 goals!" argument, but...well... don't go down 5-0 and you'll have nothing to complain about. 

 

Of course, these are ideas for low division beer league. The higher divisions seem to have less issues. Seems like the more skill, the less stupidity. 

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Hey look on the bright side - at least you guys get leagues and semi-regulated ones at that!

Here in the UK our governing body won't allow leagues at rec / beer league level for some reason (insurance possibly?) so instead we have to make do with tournaments, 'friendlies' and cup competitions which are all but mini leagues. 

There's no regulating levels apart from teams agreeing between themselves what sort of level they are and what players they have, which of course is open to all sorts of dishonesty and false reporting! Regularly get teams that have a guy / couple of guys that have just dropped down from the UK semi-pro level and they can be up against guys who have been playing a year or less which makes for fun times for the goalies xD

When I was looking back at gopro footage of a game last year I realised 95% of the shots /scoring chances / goals were a couple of these guys walking through one of our 'less experienced' D like she wasn't even there :facepalm: . We ended up winning that game by a couple, but in general most scores in UK rec most tend to be heavy wins / defeats rather than close, evenly matched games.

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On 10/26/2017 at 3:11 PM, IPv6Freely said:

Our league is so ridiculous that every team has a losing record except the top team. Can you say "unbalanced"? They better fix this shit. 

The summer season of one of the leagues I play dropped the skill level from a bunch half the winter divisions and just went with what night it played on regularly.  So me and my team of late 30s/early 40s teammates ended up matched up against a team with Adam Pelech (here's the link to his NHL stats page) and his two minor-league brothers and their assorted ex-Junior/college/minor pro friends.  Connor Brown was allegedly also supposed to be on the team but either backed out or was told not to play by the Leafs or his agent.  Almost every score shows 10-0 on the schedule because the time keepers stopped counting goals.  Best part?  They asked to be moved up to the top "A" division night (kept that one intact for the summer) but the league commissioner said no, it would imbalance the schedule.  So, instead, no one has fun.  Some leagues are pure cash grabs.

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Interesting read so far. 

There are multiple leagues around here. Some more organized than others. Usually parity is the goal, provided there are enough teams and skill divisions to place each team properly. Of course there is always the odd team that is misplaced usually temporarily. Sometimes they finish the session and win the championship, then move up a division. Or the opposite, go winless and drop a division the next session. The league I play in has six skill divisions playing at three different rinks (Check your schedule before you head to the wrong rink!). The commissioner moves teams after a completed session based on the percentage of wins during the session with consideration to how lopsided wins or loses are. He also allows teams to drop good players to stay in a division. Players can play in multiple divisions provided there isn’t too much of a spread between the divisions. He’ll allow good players to play in lower divisions if it helps a really bad team. He’s trying at least.

Of course, around here, if you play during the week, the game times will be 10 or 10:15pm. Otherwise most leagues play Sundays ranging from 4pm to 10pm start times. Leagues usually have running time after a 10 goal differential. But if the losing team scores to make it a 9 goal differential it goes back to stop time. Incidentally, I also play soccer. In the outdoor league I’m in there is a five goal differential rule. If you win 8-0, It shows on the website as 5-0, but if they scored 3 it’d be 8-3. Indoor leagues tend to have a larger differential rule, such as 8 or 10. Same idea. The leading goal amount only increases if the differential is less than the 8 or 10 differential league rule.

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On 10/27/2017 at 11:41 AM, IPv6Freely said:

Yea, their two losses are against us. Two games where we actually had more than 6-7 players show up. Imagine that. We also beat them in the finals last season after they had started to ramp up their talent (they were previously a bottom team in the league). They replaced their below-average (about my skill level) goalie with a guy from Div3. They added 2-3 buddies from D4. 

On the flip side, our team is now comprised of mostly guys who moved up from the Rookie division (Div 6). In fact, since nobody ever seems to show up, on some nights that's our entire team. Our top two defencemen left the team after last season. Now our top two defencemen are guys who moved up. They have decent enough skill but not enough experience to make smart plays and either pinch when they shouldn't, or turn the puck over, etc. 

I personally don't think teams should be allowed to recruit from the upper divisions. A sub here or there because they are short (and the game before ours is always D4 game) is fine.

I don´t know what diferences between D3, D6, Dvi 6 are in reality (we have different system here in Czech rep.), but I know what you are you talking about. I remember games in league which was supposed for amateurs (one or two ex-pro players for team were "allowed"). But when you and your amateur teammates face team with all the AAA junior players, score goes to 14-0 (because your team hardly makes it from their zone) and league says it is no problem, it is just not fun. Then it just happens, that teams don´t play against them afterall and gets 10-0 penalization. Whatever... 

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2 hours ago, mik said:

I don´t know what diferences between D3, D6, Dvi 6 are in reality (we have different system here in Czech rep.), but I know what you are you talking about. I remember games in league which was supposed for amateurs (one or two ex-pro players for team were "allowed"). But when you and your amateur teammates face team with all the AAA junior players, score goes to 14-0 (because your team hardly makes it from their zone) and league says it is no problem, it is just not fun. Then it just happens, that teams don´t play against them afterall and gets 10-0 penalization. Whatever... 

But the problem is, it gets to be no fun. I swear when play gets dangerous and contentious is when there is one team stacked with the other teams sucking. The guys who suck start feeling like they are getting mocked, so then they want to start fights or throw sticks at the player on their 50th break away that game. And usually the fights are with EACH OTHER!!!!

I know a lot of people don’t like drop in, but league can be just as bad. One of the reasons I haven’t joined a league are the horror stories like these. At least I am not in for $500 to put up with bush league crap; drop in is free for a goalie and I know it sucks. I just don’t have to pay for it!

But as I say- bad hockey is like bad sex- better bad hockey than none at all. 

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On 10/30/2017 at 6:04 AM, bunnyman666 said:

But the problem is, it gets to be no fun. I swear when play gets dangerous and contentious is when there is one team stacked with the other teams sucking. The guys who suck start feeling like they are getting mocked, so then they want to start fights or throw sticks at the player on their 50th break away that game. And usually the fights are with EACH OTHER!!!!

I know a lot of people don’t like drop in, but league can be just as bad. One of the reasons I haven’t joined a league are the horror stories like these. At least I am not in for $500 to put up with bush league crap; drop in is free for a goalie and I know it sucks. I just don’t have to pay for it!

But as I say- bad hockey is like bad sex- better bad hockey than none at all. 

I agree with you, it is not fun. Every player should consider, in which level he goes to play. OF course sometimes I play e.g. against players above my level of play, sometimes they are not so good that I am used to. But as any of my teams would not play in league full of ex-pros, on the other side we will not embarrass guys who just started to play. It does not make sense to raise your ego and make someone else to dislike hockey...

EDIT: I just never realize, what is so good about destoring teams at lower level? It is not fun to play against someone, who have no chance to win. Wins like 15-1 are not even wins...

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On 10/30/2017 at 7:46 AM, mik said:

I agree with you, it is not fun. Every player should consider, in which level he goes to play. OF course sometimes I play e.g. against players above my level of play, sometimes they are not so good that I am used to. But as any of my teams would not play in league full of ex-pros, on the other side we will not embarrass guys who just started to play. It does not make sense to raise your ego and make someone else to dislike hockey...

EDIT: I just never realize, what is so good about destoring teams at lower level? It is not fun to play against someone, who have no chance to win. Wins like 15-1 are not even wins...

I never got that. Even in Drop in where a bunch of guys played together for years and they are scoring literally every two minutes because they are five classes above the other “team” and are unwilling to trade a couple of players. I admit that I start trying for diving poke checks and only focus on making that one guy go flying at the behest of my stick. Thank G’d that guy and his team don’t show up any longer!!!! He and his horde had such an elitist attitude and want to stack drop in with his players. He finally started renting his own sheet!!!!

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Good conversation here.  Both of the leagues I play full time in are no asshole draft leagues, and there is usually parity throughout.  Every season the captains pick new teams so your teammates are always changing, and then everyone meets upstairs at the bar afterward.  It is perfect system as far as I am concerned.  Whenever I sub in traditional leagues it always amazes me how much sandbagging goes on.

-steve

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7 hours ago, mik said:

I don´t know what diferences between D3, D6, Dvi 6 are in reality (we have different system here in Czech rep.), but I know what you are you talking about. I remember games in league which was supposed for amateurs (one or two ex-pro players for team were "allowed"). But when you and your amateur teammates face team with all the AAA junior players, score goes to 14-0 (because your team hardly makes it from their zone) and league says it is no problem, it is just not fun. Then it just happens, that teams don´t play against them afterall and gets 10-0 penalization. Whatever... 

Put it this way. Div 6 is where guys have probably never skated before. When I started playing goalie I joined a D6 team and some of the guys in the dressing room had no idea how to put on their gear because they'd never done it. 

Div 5 (where I play now) is basically a step above that. Guys know how to play at this point and may have some raw skill but they have no hockey sense and there is little structure. Being able to cycle the puck almost guarantees wins.

The jump between D5 and D4 is massive. D4 is guys who know what they're doing and probably played highschool or college hockey. D3 is where it gets a bit fuzzy in our leagues because we don't have a D2 or D1, so it's basically where the most skilled guys play. 

So, even your mention of "ex-pro" kind of made me chuckle because we're nowhere even close to that level. 

1 hour ago, bunnyman666 said:

I never got that. Even in Drop in where a bunch of guys played together for years and they are scoring literally every two minutes because they are five classes above the other “team” and are unwilling to trade a couple of players. I admit that I start trying for diving poke checks and only focus on making that one guy go flying at the behest of my stick. Thank G’d that guy and his team don’t show up any longer!!!! He and his horde had such an elitist attitude and want to stack drop in with his players. He finally started renting his own sheet!!!!

I don't know if you saw my last pickup video but that's basically what it came down to. We have one guy at pickup who celebrates every goal like its the cup winner and likes to cut into the middle instead of pass and is a general douchebag. It got to the point where when he'd skate in with the puck I'd literally just stand there and not move an inch. I laid him out once last year on a breakaway, but I'm not proud of that. As much as I loved doing it... heh.

18 minutes ago, mik said:

@IPv6Freely If it is a league, the organizer should deal with it.

They don't care. As long as they get their money that's all they care about.

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36 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

Put it this way. Div 6 is where guys have probably never skated before. When I started playing goalie I joined a D6 team and some of the guys in the dressing room had no idea how to put on their gear because they'd never done it. 

Div 5 (where I play now) is basically a step above that. Guys know how to play at this point and may have some raw skill but they have no hockey sense and there is little structure. Being able to cycle the puck almost guarantees wins.

The jump between D5 and D4 is massive. D4 is guys who know what they're doing and probably played highschool or college hockey. D3 is where it gets a bit fuzzy in our leagues because we don't have a D2 or D1, so it's basically where the most skilled guys play. 

So, even your mention of "ex-pro" kind of made me chuckle because we're nowhere even close to that level. 

I don't know if you saw my last pickup video but that's basically what it came down to. We have one guy at pickup who celebrates every goal like its the cup winner and likes to cut into the middle instead of pass and is a general douchebag. It got to the point where when he'd skate in with the puck I'd literally just stand there and not move an inch. I laid him out once last year on a breakaway, but I'm not proud of that. As much as I loved doing it... heh.

They don't care. As long as they get their money that's all they care about.

Ok, maybe I used ex-pro in term that is not usualy used in US/CAN, my fault :( . Here we use to call "ex-pro" not only ex-NHL or first national league (e.g. Czech Extraliga), but guys who played at "first class" teams, sometimes for money, sometimes they quit in juniors about 19-20 years old. But just guys who played organized hockey on top level every day from their young age.   

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  • 1 month later...

Well, we won 6-4 tonight against one of the two new teams, named Black Knights. We had 5 skaters for the first period and one more guy showed up for the rest. 

Though to be fair, the Black Knights have yet to score on me. All four of their goals were scored by a sub they used from a division up because “they were short” (they had 8 skaters total). 

This was the guy who scored all the goals for the team in our division last season that went 16-2. They made him move up a division, thankfully. But here he was, subbing for a D5 team with more than enough skaters.

Whatever, I’ll just call it a 6-0 shutout. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well the good news is the league made the guy move up. The bad news is that he now “subs” for them because they’re “short”.

They had a full bench of 10 skaters, 2-3 of them from one division up, and at least 1 who was from two divisions up.

We lost 8-0.

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  • 2 months later...
On 1/8/2018 at 1:11 AM, IPv6Freely said:

Well the good news is the league made the guy move up. The bad news is that he now “subs” for them because they’re “short”.

They had a full bench of 10 skaters, 2-3 of them from one division up, and at least 1 who was from two divisions up.

We lost 8-0.

If I lose a game 8-0 , I go home and tell my wife we lost 1-0.

If she knows I let up that many, she'll make me quit.

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On ‎16‎.‎3‎.‎2018 at 6:46 PM, MTH said:

If I lose a game 8-0 , I go home and tell my wife we lost 1-0.

If she knows I let up that many, she'll make me quit.

I can´t do that - my wife would think I was not in the net... 

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On 10/27/2017 at 8:29 AM, bunnyman666 said:

There are HNA leagues around here, and there is literally one team that has 3 leagues above ability and depth (literally one true novice) and are still allowed to play novice!!!! I wish I were kidding!!!!

Where are you?  Our HNA administrator does a decent job.  There is one team that has multiple franchises and they shuffle players around.  But when the admin saw one of the ringers play several levels below where he should be, he was booted up.  It took a while, but it sorted itself out.

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