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Passau Axiom Pad Set


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Let me start off this review with a huge thank you to @GoalieTimmy33 for helping me through the ordering process, being extremely patient with me, and being accommodating even when I was upset. In addition, I appreciate the opportunity I was given, regardless of how it ended up going (I'll get into that later). 

I want to be clear though: This was a very unique situation in that I was invited to participate in a closed R&D program. This experience is NOT what I would expect from Passau for other customers.

Background

I had just started playing goal in November 2014. I had a set of Brian's S-Series pads, 33+1, in white/black/silver (LA Kings colors). I was happy enough with them and they were a fantastic entry-level pad, but I wanted to move up to a higher level pad after getting a few stingers in the glove. 

I joined my first non-rookie league team in fall of 2015 I designed uniforms for them based on the Chicago Blackhawks colors and logo. I used red pad wrap to cover the silver on my Brian's pads. At the time I had already been wearing a Passau chest protector for a few months (in black/white/silver) and knee pads, so I already had been in contact with Tim on GGSU. With the exchange rate, I calculated that I could basically get a full set for the same price as just a pair of Brian's pro-level leg pads, making the glove and blocker basically free. I decided to pull the trigger on Passau.

Design

After having been on a new team pretty much every year for the past 6-7 years I didn't want to go all out with the color on my new pads. I wanted to stay pretty neutral with something that would be easy to cover up if I changed teams. I ended up coming up with a simple design that followed a simple idea: all black, with a white face, and red accent. If I had any idea that I'd still be on this team a couple years later I would have definitely gone with something a bit more flashy. Likely a lot more red, or a sock graphic, etc. 

My wife STILL gives me crap for my design. "You look at all these cool designs on line, and THAT'S what you came up with? Why wouldn't you just go retro if you wanted something to match any team?" LOL.

For the glove, I chose the newer 60° model because I loved the look of the ventilation on the glove and everyone was raving about how great the break was. Here is my glove specs list:

  • Glove Angle - 60°
  • Hand - Regular
  • Graphic - Axiom
  • Pocket - Red skate lace
  • Palm - Maltese ($50)
  • Pre-Breakin - Yes ($25)
  • Palm Internals - Intermediate
  • Nash Palm - No
  • Pocket - Double
  • Name - "JONES"

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Here is my leg pads and blocker specs list:

  • Size - 33+2
  • Graphic - Axiom
  • Top - Bindingless
  • Knee Cradle - Hybrid (Wide strap, can be attached behind knee or below knee). Removable outer flap.
  • Knee Block - Add Maltese spacers
  • Leg Channel - closed
  • Strapping - Smart Strap, elastic boot strap w/ velcro (can be replaced w/ leather/nylon)
  • Knee Protection - None
  • Toe Brides - Elastic (smart toe strap clone)
  • Boot Angle - Normal
  • Flex - Soft boot, then stiffen the pad from medium-soft to stiff as we move up through the 3 flex points in the knee
  • Outer Rolls - Triangle
  • Breaks - None
  • Curve - Aggressive
  • Name - "JONES"

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I ended up changing a couple things later. Specifically I added a break at the knee, and changed the Maltese spacers to be Maltese inside the landing stack. You can see the color scheme in the image. Note that I requested that the sliding surface be made out of weave. I also requested that the toe of the boot be weave in an effort to reduce premature wear. 

Ordering

Once I had the design finalized I placed the order on December 10, 2015. The ordering process was easy and straight forward. I paid $2340 CAD for my set on 12/10/2015 via PayPal. That included $270 worth of customizations, plus $60 for shipping.

It was soon after ordering, I don't recall the specific date, that Tim called me. He mentioned that they were working on some design changes and asked if I'd be interested in being one of the first with the new specs. The caveat was that I'd be waiting longer. I thought it was really cool that they'd offer this, so I went for it. I didn't mind waiting longer if the changes were going to be worth it. Tim assured me they would be.

Waiting!

With this set being made as a "customer prototype" as I call it, there were a number of revisions to the gear that kept pushing back the dates. I definitely got frustrated by it, but I was given multiple chances to back out. I wanted to push forward. Now, if I had known it was going to take nine months, I would have backed out immediately, but when you're talking about a prototype design process you just have to accept that you really have no idea how long its going to be. Tim gave me a couple ETAs during the process that came and went, but each time it was in the name of additional design tweaks that they felt would be beneficial.

In March 2016 I asked if the glove was being re-designed, thinking if it wasn't that it would be nice to have ahead of the pads so I could work on breaking it in. Tim said it was not and agreed to get production started. In early May, the glove arrived! Here are some photos. Note the odd lack of a cuff and the pull strap for getting your hand in. I'll get into the design a bit more later in the review portion.

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After a bunch more delays, the blocker and leg pads showed up in early August. However, they were not made correctly. There were a few issues, the biggest being that they didn't do the same black stitching as on the glove. They had also given me Maltese knee spacers rather than having it built right into the knee blocks. That was fair, since it was a change I made later on and it's likely the person building the pads never saw the change order.

The other issue were that logos were the wrong color. White logos on white jenpro in places, and on the blocker the PASSAU logo was black on black jenpro. There was also no weave on the toe bindings. 

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There was some back and forth and they were clearly not happy about the idea of having to re-make the blocker and pads again, but I just didn't see any other way to fix it. They finally agreed and I shipped the blocker and leg pads back to Passau.

Re-making the pads

Tim sends me a mockup to make "10000% sure" they get it right. I really appreciated that. It didn't show the weave specifically so I sent them back an image to make it REALLY obvious where the weave should be. He indicated that he did already have that down, but better safe than sorry.

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In mid-september, Tim sent me this image asking me to confirm that it looks right. Pretty cool to see a pad mid-production!

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Tim sent me a photo of the pads after they were re-made and unfortunately they had made a mistake on the blocker. They went ahead and re-made the blocker again and we confirmed everything looked good.

At the end of September, the final pads arrived! As it turned out, I actually played my first game after an ankle injury (broken ankle and the resulting blood clot) the week before - a full week before I had planned to come back. So they didn't arrive in time for my first game, but were back in time for the second game.

Full photo:

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And here's a shot side-by-side with my old Brians S-Series:

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As it turned out, I found the boot strap to be about 3" too long, and the calf smart straps to be about 3" too short. Passau sent out replacements at no charge. 

Thoughts on the Process

I want to be clear ... this was a very unique situation and aside from the production mistakes (which can and do happen with any company) this is NOT what I would expect from Passau on a typical order. I'm sure this was a learning experience for both me and Passau because this was probably the first time they opened up a prototype process to an outsider (and unfortunately, it may be the last - I hope not, though. If some things were done differently, it would continue to be a really good idea). I actually have some suggestions for them if they ever decided to run a customer through the process again and would be happy to share with Tim and Hugo if they were interested.

The communication was the real problem. Not the timelines, or the keeping the changes a secret, or even the production mistakes. I FELT (right or wrong) like every time I'd ask for an update, the answer I'd get would be (paraphrasing) "we decided last week to make some more changes, new ETA is x". In my opinion if they decided last week to make a change, I should have been told about it last week. Tim would always respond pretty quickly, I just think I shouldn't have had to ask for updates. To be honest I probably should have just told Tim this instead of allowing it to continue as long as it did, so that's really on me as well.

Again, there were definitely ways to alleviate this for the next time if they decide to do it again. Maybe an email thread with the prototype customers, Tim, and Hugo could have been started for discussion, suggestions, updates, etc. 

I don't want to turn people off Passau, and I really hope Passau isn't turned off the customer prototype idea because I think it's a good one, with some tweaks. It was rocky, but I learned from it and I'm sure they did as well. They even changed their QA and testing processes in response, which is huge for me. 

I have always said I don't care about mistakes... I just care about what the company does to fix them. Passau fixed the production issues, fixed the QA/Process issues, and perhaps learned that the initial prototyping process might not be good for a customer to be exposed to. Perhaps something more like an alpha/beta/release candidate approach would have been better. 

I would absolutely not hesitate to order from Passau, and have actually done so multiple times in the last year. Tim has been extremely helpful (though I've joked that he needs an assistant!) and has always been courteous.

Hugo is an absolute craftsman and he and Tim have gone out of their way to try to involve an outsider in their prototype process, and regardless of the outcome it was completely in my control to pull out of it. 

Stay tuned for part 2 where I go over the pads themselves, their functionality, their performance and what I liked and disliked about them! 

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I also want to address the obvious - that I had previously posted a much longer review with a full timeline of events that painted Passau in a far more negative light than I had intended. It didn't accomplish a whole lot besides making a good company look bad with zero benefit. The problem with a review like that is that, while completely factual as far as I knew, it could EASILY have been taken out of context or misunderstood. In turn, that could be extremely damaging to a company that I still support. It doesn't benefit anyone; it only confuses. 

I didn't sign an NDA, but it was still an internal process that probably has no reason to be exposed to the public to the extent that I exposed it. In reality I probably should have slept on it, giving the other moderators a chance to read through it and offer their comments.

I want to apologize to @GoalieTimmy33 and to Hugo over at Passau for likely causing an absolute shitstorm over there, which was certainly not the intention. 

 

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Yea, any company can make mistakes on custom orders. That yours was done in pieces (gloves shipped first, pads later) and over several months, I guess it's easy for them to lose sight over small details like the stitching color.

I've had custom orders messed up as well by different companies. Sometimes if it's small, they knock a few bucks off and I live with it, otherwise it has to go back and that's a headache for everyone.


I don't really get why companies can't keep better track, and give customers updates along the way to ensure custom orders come out right the first time? I hope Passau will make a "lessons learned" and find a way to improve on it to save themselves and their customers headaches.

And yea, I'm not banging on Passau either, I'm sure they are not any better or worse than any other mfgr.

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Good detail of the relationship of a persistent customer and a responsive company. Lots of times it seems the customer settles for what is "good enough" and the company does a "near miss" on the final product. Nice to see the back and forth to get where you and the company wanted to be. Thanks for sharing, IP. Must have been a lot of work just to keep the back and forth chronological.

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I'm glad to see they were able to work through and make it right; in my experience, that is a true hallmark of a company that provides great service.

My experience with them was good.  I got one of the first backpack bags from Passau, and within 2 weeks the little toiletry bag ripped.  Sent Tim some pics and a replacement was at my doorstep within a week from Canada.

To give you some perspective:
When I worked retail and a custom employee order came in wrong from [a certain manufacturer, industry leader], we weren't allowed to say anything or ask for it to be fixed.

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First, thanks for the review.

I also read the original/detailed version of your review. In my opinion, mistakes are just happening (they should not, it sucks, but we are all just humans ;) ). But it's just about how to fix such a mistake. If the manufacturer communicates and offers solutions, I do not see a big deal about it. This is the approach that will make you a long-term customer - knowing that if something happens, then they are going to solve it.

Now to the topic - really like your set and Passau euipment overall. Black back of the gloves is great idea. I have all my gloves with white and it gets dirty easily :( .
Here in Europe is Passau in minority (I personally know only one goalie with C&A and one with full set and C&A who is going to order another full set).

Question:

What is your experience with weave material on the sliding areas and toe bindings, is it realy more durable? I had this material once at sliding zone, but found it less durable in comparsion to standard jenpro...  

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8 hours ago, mik said:

First, thanks for the review.

I also read the original/detailed version of your review. In my opinion, mistakes are just happening (they should not, it sucks, but we are all just humans ;) ). But it's just about how to fix such a mistake. If the manufacturer communicates and offers solutions, I do not see a big deal about it. This is the approach that will make you a long-term customer - knowing that if something happens, then they are going to solve it.

Now to the topic - really like your set and Passau euipment overall. Black back of the gloves is great idea. I have all my gloves with white and it gets dirty easily :( .
Here in Europe is Passau in minority (I personally know only one goalie with C&A and one with full set and C&A who is going to order another full set).

Question:

What is your experience with weave material on the sliding areas and toe bindings, is it realy more durable? I had this material once at sliding zone, but found it less durable in comparsion to standard jenpro...  

Agreed with your first point. Knowing a company has your back if a mistake is made goes a long way. As for the black: it's great for staying clean for sure, but I know I've also got more than a couple quick whistles because the ref lost sight of the puck in my gear!

And for your question, I'll go over that in part 2 :) 

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  • 2 months later...

Passau Axiom Pad Set Review Part 2

Initial Thoughts: I had Passau basically build these pads to fit and feel like my old Brian's, so there wasn't much of an adjustment period with these pads at all. I was comfortable immediately in the leg pads and blocker, though the glove took a while. The build quality is mostly great, with only a few small exceptions. 

It's worth noting that I started wearing these pads immediately after coming back from a significant injury, which meant that I was far more focused on how my ankle felt, how exhausted I was, etc. than how my pads felt. 

Fit & Comfort: Passau sizing was pretty accurate to Brian's sizing. I ordered a 33+2 and while my knee would land exactly where it was supposed to, I was a bit disappointed in the thigh rise. If this was 33+2, then the +1 would have been way too small. Maybe this is just my perception since I don't have the flexibility to close the 5-hole. All that said, side by side with my Brians, these were significantly larger overall.

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I think that's because of how much less curve there is in these. That's also a bit disappointing as I had requested the aggressive curve but comparing these to the photos on Passau's Facebook I'm not sure that's what I ended up with. Just means I need to be more flexible!

I ordered Maltese in the knee blocks for some added cushion when in the butterfly, so these pads feel great. They also have a pad inside that your shins/calves rest on while in the butterfly, taking some tension off your ankles. They're extremely comfortable!

The blocker fit as expected with no issues to mention, however I did notice that the fingers were much smaller than the fingers on the Brian's, which was definitely a good thing.

The glove was a very interesting fit. The break itself is very strange and felt like a baseball glove, even more so than any other glove I've ever tried on. There were also no thumb or pinkie straps, but with the way the glove is made they are completely unnecessary. You basically slip your hand into a "inner glove", rather than just tightening straps down like most gloves.

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Weird at first, but extremely comfortable. Once the glove broke in it was impossible to wear any other glove. They all felt wrong after the Passau. 9/10 

Strapping: I went for the Brian's smart strap clone offered by Passau since that was what I was used to and saw no reason to change that. One wide strap from the knee block down across the calf (that you can customize the ankle on by clipping it to different parts of the pad), the smart strap itself, an elastic boot strap, and a Brian's smart toe strap clone. 

I actually had to order new straps after trying the pads on the ice a couple times. The boot straps were way too long, and the smart strap on the calf was way too short, no matter how much I adjusted it. Once I got the new straps and put them on, all was good. The boot straps were a bit odd though, because they basically connect in the middle on the inside of the leg, and connect in two spots on the other end of the straps, one where a normal boot strap would be, and one slightly up higher. I'm not sure how this is SUPPOSED to be strapped, but I basically put one under the skate and the other through the loop on the back of my skate. (This photo is from the 'mistake' set - on the final set the ankle-area strap is on the INSIDE of the outer pad wing, as it should be.)

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The toe strap was fine enough, but I ended up swapping it out for a Monster RYNO strap setup because I'm fat and not having to reach down so far once my pants are on is always a welcome thing. 

The wrist strap on the glove is fantastic. It's just a simple velcro closure but the cuff itself is thick and padded. Very comfortable. 

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Not much to say on the blocker side. It has a wrist strap but I basically made it as loose as possible and just left it that way. This photo is from the "mistake set", but the strapping is the same:

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My only issue with the strapping is some of the stitching was a bit questionable. This was ONLY on the leg pads and only on replaceable parts so I'm not super concerned by it. 9/10

Weight: I can't speak to the actual weight of these pads because I just don't know, however the leg pads are significantly lighter than my Brian's were. The glove and blocker feel heavier, but they're also much more protective than my low-end Brian's S-Series stuff so it's not a fair comparison. They do feel lighter than other gloves I've put on off the shelf. 10/10

Durability: I've had these for over a year now and have had absolutely no problems with durability. There is a tiny bit of wear on the toe of the boot, as you'd expect, but otherwise the only things showing any wear are the straps I mentioned earlier, but again - I assume straps to be a consumable and don't expect them to last forever. That's why they're made to be replaceable. 10/10

Protection: Not much to say about the protection of the leg pads. They do their job. I do like having the outer flap protecting my leg, though. Blocker protection is fantastic. The finger covers are well placed and move easily as I close my hand. The blocker face is well padded, as is the inner sidewall. I haven't had any pain at all from any shot that's hit my blocker. 

As for the glove, I've been extremely happy. No stingers at all from shots unless they REALLY hit the wrong spot. But absolutely no issues with anything that has hit anywhere near the pocket. The palm and finger areas are well protected thanks to the maltese inserts. The only comment I have is that because of the baseball style closure I feel like my thumb is in a position where it can sometimes get pushed in when hit by a shot in that specific spot which can leave it sore for a day or so if I get hit there. 

The other thing is the lack of glove cuff. I haven't been hit in that area by a stray stick or anything, but I do have some concern about it not being there.

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I completely understand their justification for keeping that spot more open (with a fingers-up glove position, overlap with the C/A, etc) but I think I'd prefer to see some sort of mobile cuff there. 9/10

Rebounds: I love the loud 'boom' when pucks hit these pads :) They do seem to kick out pucks quite a distance which I'm a big fan of. Other than that, nothing noteworthy to mention. 10/10

Sliding: I ordered weave on all sliding surfaces because I have heard that weave slides better than jenpro. I'm very unhappy with the amount of slide I get with these pads. That said, I have nothing to compare it to so I can't totally pin the issue on Passau. I'd bet it's a large part my technique. That said, I don't remember having these complaints in my Brians with jenpro so I have to drop a couple points off the review. 7/10

Mobility: These pads fit well and are not bulky at all. I never feel like I'm fighting my pads. I don't know what else to really say about mobility other than I have no complaints. 10/10

Intangibles: Considering that I can buy a full set of Passau for the same price as a pair of Brian's leg pads, it's a bit of a no-brainer to go this route. Obviously exchange rate is helpful as well. The level of customization available is a huge plus as well. Unfortunately I didn't take advantage of that as much as I wish I had, but I had just joined a new team when I ordered them and wanted to stay pretty plain in case that didn't last. 10/10

Conclusion: Obviously we've had our issues but I still completely support Passau and continue to be a customer. In fact I just ordered a set of sticks to go with my pads. Being able to directly communicate with Passau reps as well is huge for me. These pads are pretty damn good and the glove is something I'd never stray from. If I ever went to another vendor I'd need to use a custom graphic just so that I can get a glove from Passau that matches. 

Overall score: 9/10

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  • 1 month later...

I read your original review and don't think you should have edited it. I didn't comment on it because I have been going through a situation with Passau, unfortunately I still have to make another call Monday.

Communication seems to be non-existent there. Every time they screw up, the factory or @GoalieTimmy33 it's a BS excuse. I like my set but will have a hard time buying from them again do to the experience I've had with them on correcting my order. I was going to get a C/A from them as well, but I ended up buying a different company's because I didn't want to deal with the BS.

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On February 16, 2018 at 7:19 PM, HockeyBum said:

I read your original review and don't think you should have edited it. I didn't comment on it because I have been going through a situation with Passau, unfortunately I still have to make another call Monday.

Communication seems to be non-existent there. Every time they screw up, the factory or @GoalieTimmy33 it's a BS excuse. I like my set but will have a hard time buying from them again do to the experience I've had with them on correcting my order. I was going to get a C/A from them as well, but I ended up buying a different company's because I didn't want to deal with the BS.

Sorry you feel that way and apologies for not being more active.  I'm not sure who this is but if we have an outstanding issue please DM me so I can help resolve it.

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  • 5 months later...

This is now the second set we have purchased and have found their product to be exceptionally well built for the abuse it has to endure.  I haven't experienced any of the communication troubles noted above and have even had to sent an item back to be repaired with no issues or fanfare...  If you are hesitant going through the custom order process, don't be!  Goalie equipment is like wine, what seems to be nice to one, may not be ideal for another.  Listening to a manufacturers opinion when going through the build process was helpful and it helped us tailor our structural design that works for us.     

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