VH / RVH question

[Xdave90x]

Hey guys i'm looking for place to read about the VH / RVH technique can anyone show me some place to read?

[coopaloop1234]

What do you want to read specifically? I can't think of too many places that have available guides to read online, but I know many of us can help out with any questions.

[insertnamehere]

http://ingoalmag.com/technique/reverse-vh-common-issues-proper-execution/

There are some other articles pertaining to it as well on the In Goal Mag website.

[Xdave90x]

1 hour ago, coopaloop1234 said:

What do you want to read specifically? I can't think of too many places that have available guides to read online, but I know many of us can help out with any questions.

Mostly how and when to use the technique

[loki1416]

First thing you have to recognize is save selection. If you recorded it every time you stepped on the ice, then you could go back and pick parts where you could have done this or that and it would have resulted in a better save. But, we are not pros, so we don't have (generally) that luxury. So by reading the articles and watching videos will allow you to understand where the pro/con is of each postion and that, plus experience, will let you add it into your game. And what that all boils down to is save selection. Knowing when to use what, when. If the answers you seek are not in the links below (or the one above my post), say so and we can try and find you something better.

First one is a good read.

http://www.gaahockey.com/vh-vs-rvh/

Second one is a good read as well, but also has some videos breaking it down.

https://goaliecoaches.com/rvh-goalies-execute-use/

[WizYuan]

Agreed on this diagram. However, I would highlight:

1. Behind the net RVH plays should extend to the willingness of how far you can play your stick in the lane. If you are unable to get a stick on it, you should be hugging the post standing.

2. Below the circle plays should be an angled RVH (not parallel with the goal line). This helps with covering far side and allowing you to be squared if they do skate it out or pass to the strong-side D. As well, if it's a pass to the slot, you can push out and be at top of crease to challenge.

It's what I teach the younger goalies (Peewee) and they don't really get burnt from the RVH, aside from the goals strong-side top corner because they are literally too short to cover it (I highlight that they should know how to do the technique when they become bigger and should stand when it gets past the goal line, but kids want to be the next Carey Price. If you are angling, you need to make sure you don't cheat the strong-side or you'll get holes picked on, as the Midget boys I coach learnt (covering strong-side corner requires your head).

[Bonesinium]

Pekka Rinne just gave up two awful goals, one glove side one stick side, both near side and both using the RVH. 

The glove side goal was a harmless shot from just off the goaline that snuck in inbetween his skateblade and post. 

Why NHL goalies continue to both overuse the RVH glove side and do so in a way that leaves so many holes along the post baffles me. Almost any other save selection or positioning and that doesn’t go in. Stick out of position really screwed him. 

Second goal he made the first save on the tuck attempt but then came off the post. This is actually a situation where the paddle down RVH variation would have been effective. 

In any case Rinne is pulled and Nashville is down two in game seven. 

[Puckducker]

Rinne shouldn't have his skate blade against the post while in RVH. Leaves a small gap, which is exactly where that puck goes in. 

Get the toe box or boot break of your pad on there, and the puck would have never gone in. 

[aircanuck]

28 minutes ago, Bonesinium said:

Pekka Rinne just gave up two awful goals, one glove side one stick side, both near side and both using the RVH. 

The glove side goal was a harmless shot from just off the goaline that snuck in inbetween his skateblade and post. 

Why NHL goalies continue to both overuse the RVH glove side and do so in a way that leaves so many holes along the post baffles me. Almost any other save selection or positioning and that doesn’t go in. Stick out of position really screwed him. 

Second goal he made the first save on the tuck attempt but then came off the post. This is actually a situation where the paddle down RVH variation would have been effective. 

In any case Rinne is pulled and Nashville is down two in game seven. 

I couldn't agree more about RVH opening up so many holes. I really like Corey Schneider and Steve Weeks' take on it in the video associated with this article:

https://ingoalmag.com/analysis/devils-schneider-breaks-vh-reverse-vh/

[Fullright]

Every year in the playoffs, it happens. An otherwise really great goalie makes a mistake with the alphabet move and bang, in the net. Not suggesting it needs to be discarded - when its effective which is a lot, it isn't mentioned - but it always bites some one in the ass in the playoffs. 

[Chenner29]

2 hours ago, Bonesinium said:

Pekka Rinne just gave up two awful goals, one glove side one stick side, both near side and both using the RVH. 

The glove side goal was a harmless shot from just off the goaline that snuck in inbetween his skateblade and post. 

Why NHL goalies continue to both overuse the RVH glove side and do so in a way that leaves so many holes along the post baffles me. Almost any other save selection or positioning and that doesn’t go in. Stick out of position really screwed him. 

Second goal he made the first save on the tuck attempt but then came off the post. This is actually a situation where the paddle down RVH variation would have been effective. 

In any case Rinne is pulled and Nashville is down two in game seven. 

Watched the replay a few times.

To me, it actually looks like it went in off his stick.  Shooter shot pretty much on the goal line. 
I think Rinne was committing to the post anticipating the shooter would just skate through, great job by the shooter to recognize an opportunity.

RVH is probably the best way to work wraparounds from behind the net.  Needs to be taken out of goalie repertoires for anything besides that, IMO.
I could probably count on one hand the amount of wraparound goals I've seen this season.

[Bonesinium]

It did. Hit his stick which was positioned in a way to direct the puck back into him (bad) and it found a gap. 

Glove side especially is using the RVH in that situation a problem. At least on the stick side your stick position actually beneficial in both guarding a pass and shot. Glove side you can pick one. That goal shows just how dangerous that is. 

[coopaloop1234]

15 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

Watched the replay a few times.

To me, it actually looks like it went in off his stick.  Shooter shot pretty much on the goal line. 
I think Rinne was committing to the post anticipating the shooter would just skate through, great job by the shooter to recognize an opportunity.

RVH is probably the best way to work wraparounds from behind the net.  Needs to be taken out of goalie repertoires for anything besides that, IMO.
I could probably count on one hand the amount of wraparound goals I've seen this season.

That's exactly what happened. Stick was slightly out of positions, and Rinne was using the skate on post variation of the RVH.

Mix that in with a well placed, hard shot and you've got a recipe for a gross goal like we saw.

Second point, In tight, tough angle shots are an excellent opportunity to use the RVH. I'm talking within stick's reach (and maybe a tad outside that). Anything further and you're asking to be beat up stairs.

[dreadlockgoalie]

His stick definitely should have been facing the puck, not angled like the pass was coming from behind the net.  I've seen is described by people far more knowledgeable than me as Pekka got lazy on the play and rather than reacting to the situation, he defaulted to an easy RVH with sloppy stick position.  If he keeps an active stick and hands, it's probably the nothing play it should have been.

[Puckducker]

It really just comes down to his stick positioning + his skate position on the post. His stick could not have been more perfectly positioned to deflect that between the tiny gap between the skate and the post. 

I don't think his choice of RVH is wrong based on where Myers was. He goes down as Myers is clearly moving with speed to go behind the net (and why his stick is in the position it was. He's anticipating Myers moving down low to pass to Stastny). Outside of the shot catching his stick positioning off guard, he's in a good spot.

That brings up an interesting point though. Stuff like the VH and RVH is just playing the percentages. You trade off reactive mobility for the assurance that simply holding your ground is going to stop 99% of shots from certain positions. But 99% isn't 100%, so no matter how good your positioning every now and again a goal is going to squeak through. 

So is that a bad goal then? Or does it just look bad because the goalie looks "frozen" on the shot. If Rinne had been in a more reactive position, and and tried to move and save that Myers shot, people would still probably call say it was a weak goal, but I think more credit would be given to Myers for putting up a "tricky shot to save". 

[coopaloop1234]

1 hour ago, Puckducker said:

So is that a bad goal then? Or does it just look bad because the goalie looks "frozen" on the shot. If Rinne had been in a more reactive position, and and tried to move and save that Myers shot, people would still probably call say it was a weak goal, but I think more credit would be given to Myers for putting up a "tricky shot to save". 

Still a bad goal. A percentage style save selection/mindset only works on non react able shots. 

A shot along the ice, on the goal line, from that far out? Poor goal.

[Puckducker]

But I'd say that puck was in a position where a non-reactable RVH save was the correct option. 

I guess my point is that people seem to be piling on Rinne for a bad save selection. Lots of "This is why the RVH's is overrated" hot takes. 

But the RVH isn't the issue, Rinne just got burned because of his stick positioning, and even then it was incredibly unlucky. 

[Fullright]

It's the playoffs. It's a bad goal. And I am a fan of his. 

[coopaloop1234]

1 hour ago, Puckducker said:

But I'd say that puck was in a position where a non-reactable RVH save was the correct option. 

I guess my point is that people seem to be piling on Rinne for a bad save selection. Lots of "This is why the RVH's is overrated" hot takes. 

But the RVH isn't the issue, Rinne just got burned because of his stick positioning, and even then it was incredibly unlucky. 

I'm not saying that RVH was incorrect, and you're right, he was a victim of an off chance. 

I was just saying that you can't just go, well, it can never be 100% therefore you can't say it's a bad goal. 

[Puckducker]

Maybe, but it always feels odd to me on a non-reactive save. Like the whole point is that you get in position, you hold that position and you don't move and just let the puck hit you. 

In those cases the difference between a routine save and a "bad goal" is....nothing. Goalie plays the exact same position and doesn't move/react differently in either circumstance. (Obviously Rinne's stick position could have been better, but the stick just re-directed the puck through the small gap. Entirely possible for Myers to hit that gap without the re-direct).

[bunnyman666]

I would say that there was a systemic breakdown in Nashville’s zone, plus poor sealing of the post on Rinne’s bad goal. Poor positioning was the order of the day. 

In general- Nashville as a team had a bad game at the worst possible time.

[Fullright]

Personally, I enjoyed the Peg winning and Snotsville losing. The Preds are a great team but the only guy on the team I like is Mr. Rinne. He's not only a great goalie, but also seems to be a nice person.  Really sucks for him that he got beat on crap and his coach hooked him in G7. 

[bunnyman666]

8 hours ago, Fullright said:

Personally, I enjoyed the Peg winning and Snotsville losing. The Preds are a great team but the only guy on the team I like is Mr. Rinne. He's not only a great goalie, but also seems to be a nice person.  Really sucks for him that he got beat on crap and his coach hooked him in G7. 

That has to be an ego killer!

Winterpeg seems to be having everything going at the right time. I have them going to the Finals in my bracket.

[old but slow]

15 hours ago, Puckducker said:

Maybe, but it always feels odd to me on a non-reactive save. Like the whole point is that you get in position, you hold that position and you don't move and just let the puck hit you. 

In those cases the difference between a routine save and a "bad goal" is....nothing. Goalie plays the exact same position and doesn't move/react differently in either circumstance. (Obviously Rinne's stick position could have been better, but the stick just re-directed the puck through the small gap. Entirely possible for Myers to hit that gap without the re-direct).

IMO, NO such thing as a "non-reactive save" unless the net minder never sees the shot and it just hits him/her. Playing this position requires you to read the play and react to it. Bad luck for Rinne for sure but  an argument could be made that he either read the play poorly causing an improper reaction or he reacted poorly to the developing play. Either way the result is that he didn't make the save that he should have = "bad goal".

[coopaloop1234]

17 hours ago, Puckducker said:

Maybe, but it always feels odd to me on a non-reactive save. Like the whole point is that you get in position, you hold that position and you don't move and just let the puck hit you. 

In those cases the difference between a routine save and a "bad goal" is....nothing. Goalie plays the exact same position and doesn't move/react differently in either circumstance. (Obviously Rinne's stick position could have been better, but the stick just re-directed the puck through the small gap. Entirely possible for Myers to hit that gap without the re-direct).

I get ya. Percentage based save selection is a huge part of the game, and Rinne chose the right tool. 

Though, at that angle he should've used foot inside the post style rvh. Gotta hug that post.