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BadAngle41

More POP off my Blocker - Rebuild

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While I continue to skate during the summer, the high level skate takes a break, so I have some time to modify equipment properly. One item I'd like to get everyone's input on is getting more POP off my blocker, like the Bauer 1s/2s or Vaughn SLR. I'm using Koho 589 Vintage Pro which has seen ~3 years of service so I need to replace the blocker board anyway and have some small repairs made on the palm gusset. But any suggestions on...

  1. Blocker Board Materials (carbon sheets vs. standard plastic)
  2. Higher density foams (perhaps layers as yes > density also means >weight)
  3. Sourcing options for materials

I'm not opposed to sending this work off to say @Beccaraptor at PAW so if i even wanted to thin out blocker face as a whole it could be done. Trying to build a better blocker is all. Help me brainstorm... and if you have a 1s or any other block you feel has good POP and you don't mind opening it up to show off send some pics. The IG post below from GoalieCoaches got me thinking about this...

 

Edited by BadAngle41

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Going to some more research on high density forms and carbon sheets... perhaps this is a low interest item but I'll keep updating as it seems like it will be both relatively easy to swap out and the benefits could be decent.

Anyone with some suggestions on specific foam type(s) and/or densities... drop me a line.

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If you can find out what Glenn Miller used as the makeup of his blockers in the late 80's they had HUGE pop.  I used a Brian's 451 after my Miller and really noticed how much less the Brian's popped.
Glenn is on FB and is part of the Vintage Goalie Equip group.  You should be able to Message him on FB.  I have his email somewhere as well.  Will try to find it.

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On 4/12/2018 at 11:18 AM, BadAngle41 said:

Going to some more research on high density forms and carbon sheets... perhaps this is a low interest item but I'll keep updating as it seems like it will be both relatively easy to swap out and the benefits could be decent.

Anyone with some suggestions on specific foam type(s) and/or densities... drop me a line.

There's two primary ways to do this and they are both used. The carbon style sheet from Bauer and Vaughn is 1. Brian's accomplishes this with really really hard foam pieces. The second is a soft springy materials. The new max rebound inside premier would like a sheet of orange VN foam to the naked eye. 

The the material has to be hard enough to make the puck it self compress and then spring or the material has to be soft enough to act as the spring 

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40 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

There's two primary ways to do this and they are both used. The carbon style sheet from Bauer and Vaughn is 1. Brian's accomplishes this with really really hard foam pieces. The second is a soft springy materials. The new max rebound inside premier would like a sheet of orange VN foam to the naked eye. 

The the material has to be hard enough to make the puck it self compress and then spring or the material has to be soft enough to act as the spring 

Based on the availability of materials... it sounds like option 1 is my most likely route... but if I can find out more on a generic version of CCM's max rebound I'll definitely post it.

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8 hours ago, BadAngle41 said:

Based on the availability of materials... it sounds like option 1 is my most likely route... but if I can find out more on a generic version of CCM's max rebound I'll definitely post it.

Sorry, I don’t know a generic name for the foam 

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Just now, TheGoalNet said:

Sorry, I don’t know a generic name for the foam 

No worries. Doing some research on Curv by Propex I saw where it’s properties also lend themselves to things like luggage... which reminded me of some Tumi bags I have that are made from Tegra Lite... a version of Tegris by Milliken. Certainly not about to start cutting up a Tumi but they’re similar thermoplastic composites. Gives me hope of finding something better than what was stock. 

Btw... I’m guessing CCM didn’t put Max rebound on the face of the blocker... wonder why. Would you mind perhaps taking out the internals of the Premier II and posting a couple pics?

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10 hours ago, BadAngle41 said:

No worries. Doing some research on Curv by Propex I saw where it’s properties also lend themselves to things like luggage... which reminded me of some Tumi bags I have that are made from Tegra Lite... a version of Tegris by Milliken. Certainly not about to start cutting up a Tumi but they’re similar thermoplastic composites. Gives me hope of finding something better than what was stock. 

Btw... I’m guessing CCM didn’t put Max rebound on the face of the blocker... wonder why. Would you mind perhaps taking out the internals of the Premier II and posting a couple pics?

It's demo gear and there no zipper. I am sorry, but I don't feel comfortable unlacing anything. 

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52 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

It's demo gear and there no zipper. I am sorry, but I don't feel comfortable unlacing anything. 

No worries. If they had put Max Rebound in it they would be saying so... likely not much different than the internals on mine.

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1 hour ago, TheGoalNet said:

It's demo gear and there no zipper. I am sorry, but I don't feel comfortable unlacing anything. 

Wuss.

Do it, for the good of the site!

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26 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Wuss.

Do it, for the good of the site!

The blocker does NOT have the Max Rebound tag. I would be surprised if the material is present. However, I still believe the concept is valid. 

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4 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

The blocker does NOT have the Max Rebound tag. I would be surprised if the material is present. However, I still believe the concept is valid. 

Absolutely... layering of other materials may also be a factor in its performance in a blocker vs. leg pads but it's certainly exciting as a concept. 

If/when i could get my hands on such material (in a small quantity) I'd try it for sure. Until then I'll be going down the high density route looking at foams and thermoplastic composites at the face. Of course the other glaring variable here is my inability to accurately define my endeavor with data to determine what constitutes improvement besides feel... but at the end of the day that's what really matters to most of us anyway.

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On 4/13/2018 at 12:53 PM, BadAngle41 said:

Absolutely... layering of other materials may also be a factor in its performance in a blocker vs. leg pads but it's certainly exciting as a concept. 

If/when i could get my hands on such material (in a small quantity) I'd try it for sure. Until then I'll be going down the high density route looking at foams and thermoplastic composites at the face. Of course the other glaring variable here is my inability to accurately define my endeavor with data to determine what constitutes improvement besides feel... but at the end of the day that's what really matters to most of us anyway.

One of my gear *modding* group chats just brought up a material called Kydex.  It looks pretty promising to mod with as it is very easy to mold (oven at 300+ degrees for a few minutes). 

From what i understand, it’s being used by team EQMs on player skates instead of those clear lexan pieces to protect from shots. 

Edited by Chenner29
autocorrect

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4 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

One of my gear missing group chats just brought up a material called Kydex.  It looks pretty promising to mod with as it is very easy to mold (oven at 300+ degrees for a few minutes). 

From what i understand, it’s being used by team EQMs on player skates instead of those clear lexan pieces to protect from shots. 

Thanks!!! I’ll check it out. Now that I painted my mask (although it has really just given me the itch to sand it back down and so it again) I’m turning my attention to this project. 

Price isn’t even pennies in the dollar compared to Curv or Tegris...

Gourd 3 Pack Kydex Plastic Sheet Black 12" X 12" X 1/16" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0779B8KYK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_Kst3AbK87G6VX

Edited by BadAngle41

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@BadAngle41

You'll want to play with different thicknesses.  My group said that .080 is probably the thickest they'd work with, but since you're working with something fairly easy to mold (a blocker board) you might be able to go up to .125 thickness.

Here's a really cool video showing how easy it is to work with.  He also quickly goes over some tools which you might want to use.

I haven't played with the stuff yet, but I'd like to.

I think this material looks really good for people who want to reinforce the arms on their chest protectors.  You can easily make a plastic outer shell like the Warrior and Bauer 1X.  The plastic is supposed to be pretty easy to sew through.

Edited by Chenner29

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9 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

@BadAngle41

You'll want to play with different thicknesses.  My group said that .080 is probably the thickest they'd work with, but since you're working with something fairly easy to mold (a blocker board) you might be able to go up to .125 thickness.

Here's a really cool video showing how easy it is to work with.  He also quickly goes over some tools which you might want to use.

I haven't played with the stuff yet, but I'd like to.

I think this material looks really good for people who want to reinforce the arms on their chest protectors.  You can easily make a plastic outer shell like the Warrior and Bauer 1X.  The plastic is supposed to be pretty easy to sew through.

Thanks for the video. I poked around molding Kydex as well and because I really just need 1 bend I'll probably go the heat gun route instead of kitchen oven. Also, I'll get a few thicknesses to try out and do a weight comparison to standard blocker board. I only have about 6 skates between now and hip surgery, so I'll try and get materials in so I can I can post with initial impressions before I'm on IR. 

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Fist run with KYDEX is set for tonight. I picked up KYDEX V @ .125" thickness (3.175mm.) The stock Nylon board was difficult to measure with my caliper as it has been pretty well dented of the past few years... but it averaged a thickness measurement of .075" (1.095mm.) Using some chalk ink to trace the stock board onto my sheet of KYDEX, it was easily trimmed out with a razor and curves were done with a pair of tin snips. Given that this piece of KYDEX is not only thicker than the stock board but also more dense (and less inclined to bend as easily as the Nylon board into shape), I used my head gun to warm it up and bend into place. Laying the Kydex on the foam blocker board and with <1min of back and forth passes over the bend area, the KYDEX soften an conformed to the blocker board shave VERY easily. After that I just let it cool to set. 

1180101845_KYDEXTools01.jpg.2e2914e5047297007ea58c065dd34cc1.jpg  1467455687_KYDEXTools02.jpg.4ad9fb6af1cd31c543b5d7cc21815b10.jpg1507482155_KydexBoard.12501.jpg.c7d2184d2e0323de4fbb00c2a6ba3e1b.jpg

Due to a higher density as well as increase in thickness over the stock Nylon, the KYDEX comes in at 150% the weight of the stock board. Below are some quick calcs on denstities of the materials as well as a projected weight for the next test of KYDEX V @ .080 thickness (at the same density as .125 thickness.)

256164382_StockNylonBoardWeight.jpg.d0dd185d58b4139aa9fe82bd68e45e3e.jpg      1385565257_KYDEXBoard.125Weight.jpg.d11d2706d03216558d408a49dde11c2c.jpg

image.png.5b9a0a97aab473172d0b2f3e2e119a97.png

image.png.bd0bf3e787d05ac685edd85af3750588.png

Edited by BadAngle41
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15 minutes ago, BadAngle41 said:

Fist run with KYDEX is set for tonight. I picked up KYDEX V @ .125" thickness (3.175mm.) The stock Nylon board was difficult to measure with my caliper as it has been pretty well dented of the past few years... but it averaged a thickness measurement of .075" (1.095mm.) Using some chalk ink to trace the stock board onto my sheet of KYDEX, it was easily trimmed out with a razor and curves were done with a pair of tin snips. Given that this piece of KYDEX is not only thicker than the stock board but also more dense (and less inclined to bend as easily as the Nylon board into shape), I used my head gun to warm it up and bend into place. Laying the Kydex on the foam blocker board and with <1min of back and forth passes over the bend area, the KYDEX soften an conformed to the blocker board shave VERY easily. After that I just let it cool to set. 

1180101845_KYDEXTools01.jpg.2e2914e5047297007ea58c065dd34cc1.jpg  1467455687_KYDEXTools02.jpg.4ad9fb6af1cd31c543b5d7cc21815b10.jpg1507482155_KydexBoard.12501.jpg.c7d2184d2e0323de4fbb00c2a6ba3e1b.jpg

Due to a higher density as well as increase in thickness over the stock Nylon, the KYDEX comes in at 150% the weight of the stock board. Below are some quick calcs on denstities of the materials as well as a projected weight for the next test of KYDEX V @ .080 thickness (at the same density as .125 thickness.)

256164382_StockNylonBoardWeight.jpg.d0dd185d58b4139aa9fe82bd68e45e3e.jpg      1385565257_KYDEXBoard.125Weight.jpg.d11d2706d03216558d408a49dde11c2c.jpg

image.png.5b9a0a97aab473172d0b2f3e2e119a97.png

image.png.bd0bf3e787d05ac685edd85af3750588.png

Can’t wait to see how it performs!

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2 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

@BadAngle41 - You had me at ASTM

Ha... I'm more of a data guy who happens to have some knowledge of ASTM (mostly fro time spent in manufacturing environments) and understands the value of standardized testing methods. Taking a step back from the materials themselves, I'm working on simple definitions of some physical and mechanical properties that will be the focus when comparing materials. Sounds like you may be one of the top guys to take a look at it before I post. Perhaps @IPv6Freely@bunnyman666, and @Chenner29 would be interested as well.

Edited by BadAngle41

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Verdict on the KYDEX V @.125" Thickness: NOT WORTH THE ADDED MASS

In the small sample size of 4 games... I can't say that I noticed a significant difference in pucks popping off the blocker face this weekend. Admittedly I was also facing lower level shooters with generally slower shots so while it may not be a completely fair performance comparison, I can say that any additional distance I may have gotten from faster shots would largely have been negated by the added mass. Now given that I had already weighed the materials and knew it was heavier, I was probably more aware of the change than if I waited until afterwards, but you're going to feel the additional 160 grams. 

I do have KYDEX V @.080" thickness on the way, but I will be out of commission by the time it arrives so I will have to find a more scientific method of testing boards. Probably best to do anyway, and I will include the .125" thickness in the same testing.

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Reviving this thread based on the interest generated by the TGN spec GNetikIV Lexan blocker board insert.

Lexan 9034

Based on another thread, I have varying reports of thicknesses used by Brian's and Vaughn in their blockers from 1/16" or 1/8" from @Chenner29 based on Vaughn, and 3/8" from @TheGoalNet based on the recent GNetikIV. I ordered 2 sheets @ 12" x 24" x 1/8"... this way I can try a 1/8" sheet alone... and if I don't feel it's sufficient I can double it up for the 1/4" thickness. Of course the elephant in the room is the makeup of the balance of the layers used by Brian's and Vaughn... which are likely different from my CCM Retroflex. Approximate densities and weight of the sheets once cut to size is below. Actual will be posted once available.

image.png.1c0c5260a216df62ec390ba6e95214a1.png

image.thumb.png.d21e39278e7e08be9c5b9141f8c8acd2.png

Lexan 9034 vs. KYDEX V

image.png.edf8d416fc2129fa802be8f3f180d352.png

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@BadAngle41 - Great work here! The 3/8" is a number that came up in discussions with Brian's. My blocker does NOT have a zipper, so I can't take it a part.

@Jonathon v right up your alley...

I am not sure the exact spec you need, I don't know if it's hardness, but you basically dont want the plastic to flex at all for this application

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