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Attack of the Clones


TheGoalNet

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@TheGoalNet I'm going to chalk it up to perhaps a poor choice of words on your part. I don't think the one's "integrity" or "ethics" are necessarily questionable because they wear a certain brand of gear.

I can say proof positive that my integrity and ethics are well intact despite the fact that I wear Simmons gear. I was first introduced to Simmons when I bought a used set of pads in 2007. I later had Simmons build me some gloves and it was my experience with Mark and Rick (not to mention that I am not made of money) that brought me back there a few months ago when I was ready get more new stuff.

Imagine...I joined this forum yesterday and the first post I read was your harsh diatribe and faux outrage over Simmons, Battram et al. Kids go to school without a proper breakfast and we are concerned with this?

I certainly hope your ethics and integrity carry over to the arts and entertainment industry and you have also never illegally downloaded music, movies, and the like.

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2 hours ago, Boosh63 said:

Kids go to school without a proper breakfast and we are concerned with this?

I certainly hope your ethics and integrity carry over to the arts and entertainment industry and you have also never illegally downloaded music, movies, and the like.

This is a GOALIE FORUM.

No offense but it’s not like we come here to talk about our everyday problems, yes it does suck that people don’t have the same but that has nothing to do with what we’re talking about.

I’m sure most people can agree this isn’t against them as people. When you blatantly take a mask painters design and copy it, make gear graphics, like this, that obviously look like others. Don’t tell me this doesn’t look like the LT90 graphic.

whether it’s out of inspiration or giving the customer what they wanted, it’s still to some point wrong.

Again, this is a goalie forum and don’t use the comparison of a completely different and more personal issue, it’s not like we are completely degrading these people. Thanks. 

AD8A6E05-51FA-4586-A2D3-0148742AA5BF.jpeg

Edited by southpawtendy48
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@southpawtendy48 It's about impact not intent. The comments made by @TheGoalNet hit a nerve. I did start by saying that I believe it was a poor selection of words. Perhaps I should have stopped at that.

I don't know what an LT90 is. I buy what I can afford and I go out and try to keep the biscuit out of the basket. (<---goalie jargon as this is a GOALIE FORUM)

Let me know which company got fleeced with my pillow (<--more goalie jargon) design. I don't want to be blind-sided out on the ice by some other gear connoisseur.

But remember...They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. 

IMG_20180710_092142821.jpg

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14 hours ago, Boosh63 said:

@southpawtendy48 It's about impact not intent. The comments made by @TheGoalNet hit a nerve. I did start by saying that I believe it was a poor selection of words. Perhaps I should have stopped at that.

I don't know what an LT90 is. I buy what I can afford and I go out and try to keep the biscuit out of the basket. (<---goalie jargon as this is a GOALIE FORUM)

Let me know which company got fleeced with my pillow (<--more goalie jargon) design. I don't want to be blind-sided out on the ice by some other gear connoisseur.

But remember...They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. 

IMG_20180710_092142821.jpg

This is an LT90. 

You arent being blind sided. They’ve done some flat out copies like this one and it’s definitely a topic of discussion. Every company has done it to some extent, but Simmons seems to do it a lot for whatever reason, whether it was a poor choice of words by @TheGoalNet he’s right on saying that they’ve copied other designs, and that doesn’t shed a bright light on people for obvious reasons.

48C25E5E-FFCE-4AC1-ACA9-060BF99CB2B4.jpeg

Edited by southpawtendy48
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14 hours ago, Boosh63 said:

Imagine...I joined this forum yesterday and the first post I read was your harsh diatribe and faux outrage over Simmons, Battram et al. Kids go to school without a proper breakfast and we are concerned with this?

That's a straw-man argument if I ever read one... I don't recall anyone here saying that cloning goalie equipment is as serious a problem as kids who don't have access to food. That's also a classic bit of bad logic — when your boss asks you about a project you're responsible for, do you say, "Really? There's starvation in Africa, and you want to ask me about my report?" Does mass immigration, world hunger, poverty, and genocide mean we can't debate anything smaller, or feel strongly about it? Of course not.

It's not a harsh diatribe, and I don't think it's "faux outrage". It's an interesting conversation about a phenomenon in an industry in which we're all interested. And some people have opinions on it that you don't agree with. It's okay if you like your Simmons gear or don't feel Simmons does anything wrong — join the conversation! But don't be offended or say that the conversation shouldn't occur in the first place. 

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I am going to attempt to explain where the emotion is coming from.

I am 55 and believe it or not, have NEVER owned new pads....ever. So after the amazing experience I had with Simmons building me matching Matrix 3 gloves a few years ago, I went back to them because I was ready for new pads. (11 seasons with Matrix 3 pads that were maybe a couple seasons old when I purchased them.) This time I was able to afford the entire setup...so to underscore...this is the first time that I have everything new...gloves and pads at once.

I chanced upon this website...joined...typed Simmons as my 1st search and landed on Attack of the Clones. I allowed the words "integrity and ethics" stick to me personally as those are meaningful words in my vocabulary as is the word "friend" another over/misused word thanks to social media. I felt the original post was questioning the wearer as much as the manufacturer. I know I don't need the acceptance of strangers but the wind was blowing the wrong way and I allowed myself to become deflated. I have had a sandwich...my blood sugar is back to normal...hahaha!

Current mood...

mood.JPG

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@Boosh63 There are too many varying opinions on this subject to take a few posts to heart.

I'm more on the imitation=flattery side of this, especially when it comes down to just personal use. There are a few opinions I don't agree with, but it's the internet, the majority of people's opinions on here will match the value of the data they're hosted on. (spoiler: not fucking much).

Discussions are fun, and you're going to argue with people form time to time, but you should definitely avoid trying to feel directly attacked.

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3 hours ago, Boosh63 said:

I am going to attempt to explain where the emotion is coming from.

Current mood...

mood.JPG

I totally get it... we all tend to put a lot (too much) of thought and pride into our gear, and it's natural to be a bit defensive when someone suggests that our tastes and choices are wrong. But in the end, if you're happy with what you have, does it really matter? I got some funny comments (none which bothered me in the least) about my decision to have 6 leather straps on my new pads, and I thought everyone had a good point — it's kinda dumb! But it's what I wanted, and I'm glad I have what I want.

And for what it's worth, I don't think you're in the wrong for your pads in any way, shape, or form. I ordered plenty of gear from Simmons over the years (albeit, when I was much younger) and I've never felt guilty about it for a second — and as I've mentioned in previous posts here, I probably wouldn't be above looking into some Heaton clones. Ultimately, this whole clone debate is pretty nuanced, and everyone's personal take on the matter comes with some sizable caveats.

I still don't like a lot of the cloning things I see from Simmons, Boddam, and even Kenesky (who made my lovely pads — and I'd definitely work with them again), but I put the onus on them to make 'ethical' choices, and not so much the customer. You wanted something, they sold it to you, and you're very happy with it. Don't worry about anyone else, this is all meant to be fun talk ?

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/16/2018 at 9:49 AM, Boosh63 said:

I am going to attempt to explain where the emotion is coming from.

I am 55 and believe it or not, have NEVER owned new pads....ever. So after the amazing experience I had with Simmons building me matching Matrix 3 gloves a few years ago, I went back to them because I was ready for new pads. (11 seasons with Matrix 3 pads that were maybe a couple seasons old when I purchased them.) This time I was able to afford the entire setup...so to underscore...this is the first time that I have everything new...gloves and pads at once.

I chanced upon this website...joined...typed Simmons as my 1st search and landed on Attack of the Clones. I allowed the words "integrity and ethics" stick to me personally as those are meaningful words in my vocabulary as is the word "friend" another over/misused word thanks to social media. I felt the original post was questioning the wearer as much as the manufacturer. I know I don't need the acceptance of strangers but the wind was blowing the wrong way and I allowed myself to become deflated. I have had a sandwich...my blood sugar is back to normal...hahaha!

Current mood...

mood.JPG

@Boosh63 - My goal is not alienate anyone, but I understand this article could do that. I don't want you to be upset, that was not my goal. 

I don't have a problem with Simmons making low cost gear in Canada, in fact... I wish more companies would do this! My issue is that Simmons copies Vaughn Designs and graphics. 

I wish Simmons would come up with their own designs and graphics. Passau, Factory Mad, Kenesky, Boddam, or McKinney can all get you same gear at the same price with better ethics behind it. 

Again, I not saying buy Vaughn or CCM. . . I am saying that Simmons does some unethical things and holds back innovations. 

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  • 1 month later...

Full Disclosure: I just sent my helmet away for painting. During the design process I discovered that the team I joined completely ripped their logo from a USHL team... (it’s about 98% identical) about 3 years prior when they had jersey’s sublimated. I’ve been with these guys for 3 seasons now and that’s not likely to end soon... so team helmet is a go. I’m all for original designs and the rest of the helmet is my original collaboration with the painter, but it will have the borrowed logo displayed. I guess that makes me a little hypocritical...

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On 8/15/2018 at 5:51 PM, Boosh63 said:

@TheGoalNet I'm going to chalk it up to perhaps a poor choice of words on your part. I don't think the one's "integrity" or "ethics" are necessarily questionable because they wear a certain brand of gear.

I can say proof positive that my integrity and ethics are well intact despite the fact that I wear Simmons gear. I was first introduced to Simmons when I bought a used set of pads in 2007. I later had Simmons build me some gloves and it was my experience with Mark and Rick (not to mention that I am not made of money) that brought me back there a few months ago when I was ready get more new stuff.

Imagine...I joined this forum yesterday and the first post I read was your harsh diatribe and faux outrage over Simmons, Battram et al. Kids go to school without a proper breakfast and we are concerned with this?

I certainly hope your ethics and integrity carry over to the arts and entertainment industry and you have also never illegally downloaded music, movies, and the like.

I have been paying for music since iTunes was launched. I don’t share my Netflix password with others etc, etc 

I’m far from perfect, but don’t make a habit of cheating the system 

And I understand there are bigger causes in life, but this is a website about goalie equipment. Not social issues or politics 

I don’t like the copying and would like to see it stop. I love that Simmons makes gear in Canada at a fair price. I don’t love that the shamelessly copy other companies designs and graphics. Hiring A college kid to design a new graphic for them or trying to come up with their own  strapping system would change the cost of their equipment $0. Id be one of Simmons biggest supporters of that happened. 

I’m sharing my opinion in hopes to start a topic of conversation. If you don’t agree with me, that’s okay. This a place to share your opinion.

However, bringing poverty into the discussion is kind off topic and a cheap tactic 

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