Switching from Bauer Mach to True Hzrdus?

[RecoveringGoalie1]

I've been dreaming of a new set to treat myself for the holidays and Hzrdus is high on my list, but I'm feeling a bit lost as to the sheer customization options for it and was hoping the community here could help steer me in the right direction.

I started playing again 4 years ago after a 10+ year hiatus and have moved up to playing regularly in B/C ASHL divisions, I play a modern butterfly style and use the RVH. I picked up the Bauer 3X pads and absolutely loved them. Thin profile, light, incredible sliding, great/simple strapping system, and the hot rebounds were a revelation. I then splurged on a custom Mach set up with a Ultrasonic style stiff thigh rise and hyperlite gloves skinned as Mach.  I've honestly been a bit disappointed in the pads in particular, they don't slide as well as the 3X pads and I feel I lost some mobility in the process. That being said I'm playing the best I ever have so they're not a hindrance.

Could anyone help me compare the Single Break Core vs No Break Core and how those would be analogous to Bauer's lines? I know I want the Thin thigh rise for better overlap positioning + everyone has raved about the improvement there. Similar question with the outer roll - single break vs no break. I'm fairly mobile / flexible and don't need a super soft pad, but I did generally prefer the 3X line all round and used to wear Vaughns (V3's) many years ago.

For the boot I know I want a flat boot with a flex which helps in the RVH, but unsure on the 'regular' vs 'open angle' as well as the unique Nylon strapping options for the True pads. If True doesn't make sense I'd otherwise go back to the Vapour/Hyperlite line

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

 

[keeperton]

Well, as far as the core differences and what you'll see in that versus an UItrasonic: they're going to be different either way. The Bauer flex profiles, save for the ones that don't flex, are all pretty springy in their bend, even on the thighs. If you went Ultrasonic instead of Mach, you'll definitely not want the No Break Core as that is one monstrously stiff pad, I'm pretty sure even the Single Break Core is going to be stiffer (especially without the outer roll break). The True thin thigh rises are incredibly stiff, I haven't experienced much like them (except maybe the stiffest Bauer cores).

All of that is to say, the two are not going to compare to easily. The HZRDUS is a rather straight pad and, though I have Catalysts, the Single Break Core with a no break outer roll is by far the stiffest thing I've ever worn (though intentionally, and I haven't ever worn a Bauer beyond demoing the unit, even then that was 2S Pro and 3X Pro pads). 

For the boot, if you're set on True, I'd say consider if you liked the boot angle more on your 3X pads or on your Ultrasonic pads, since the Supremes (assuming you didn't customize it) have a more open boot at 120 degrees. The True "regular" is 110 degrees (like a Vapor) and the "open" is 120 degrees (like a Supreme).

I'm not sure what you mean by the strapping. Do you mean the toe ties or the boot strap? The toe ties, save for standard skate lace, are Pro Laces and the pictures in their customizer do a decently fine job (if still confusing, one of us can help clear it up and/or you can check the Pro Laces website). The boot strap is only none, behind heel, or under foot.

[froese]

15 hours ago, RecoveringGoalie1 said:

I've been dreaming of a new set to treat myself for the holidays and Hzrdus is high on my list, but I'm feeling a bit lost as to the sheer customization options for it and was hoping the community here could help steer me in the right direction.

I started playing again 4 years ago after a 10+ year hiatus and have moved up to playing regularly in B/C ASHL divisions, I play a modern butterfly style and use the RVH. I picked up the Bauer 3X pads and absolutely loved them. Thin profile, light, incredible sliding, great/simple strapping system, and the hot rebounds were a revelation. I then splurged on a custom Mach set up with a Ultrasonic style stiff thigh rise and hyperlite gloves skinned as Mach.  I've honestly been a bit disappointed in the pads in particular, they don't slide as well as the 3X pads and I feel I lost some mobility in the process. That being said I'm playing the best I ever have so they're not a hindrance.

Could anyone help me compare the Single Break Core vs No Break Core and how those would be analogous to Bauer's lines? I know I want the Thin thigh rise for better overlap positioning + everyone has raved about the improvement there. Similar question with the outer roll - single break vs no break. I'm fairly mobile / flexible and don't need a super soft pad, but I did generally prefer the 3X line all round and used to wear Vaughns (V3's) many years ago.

For the boot I know I want a flat boot with a flex which helps in the RVH, but unsure on the 'regular' vs 'open angle' as well as the unique Nylon strapping options for the True pads. If True doesn't make sense I'd otherwise go back to the Vapour/Hyperlite line

Thanks in advance!

Here's my 2 cents...

Currently wearing catalyst px3, single break core, no break outer roll, thin thigh rise, no boot strap, nylon and elastic strap both down the calf. regular boot angle. I was wearing a set of eflex 6 last year but found them a little too soft. At the start of this year, I took a set of stock Shadow's for a test drive but ultimately did not gel with the strapping and found the thigh rise a bit too soft, and I also found them a little bulky and restrictive - less mobile than the Trues.

As @keeperton says, I don't think you should go with the no break core, if you're coming from an ultrasonic stiffness profile which I believe is similar or even softer than that of stock Shadow, which is softer than what I have with the px3 single break core no break outer roll. That being said, the Trues will develop a nice s-curve in the thigh/knee area over time, or at least my px3's have. Can't vouch for the px4s but I think there's custom options to allow for that. Five hole coverage is absolutely no problem and they slide great (weave on the sliding surface). RVH with the regular book angle is awesome, and I use skate lace not bungees or pro laces. Rotation is amazing.

Based on what you're looking for it sounds like you should be able to spec out a pair of Trues that will work for you, but as always these things are very personal to each individual. But I do love mine.

[coopaloop1234]

So I can't contribute much but I can clear up that the Ultrasonic/Shadow stiffness is a double internal break, and the Mach was a single internal break. 

Despite Bauer's notoriety for having the stiffest pads, they've been usurped (at least at retail) by a few other guys.  Warrior and True mostly come to mind. 

The Shadow pad is practically middle of the pack now a days. 

[RecoveringGoalie1]

Thanks for all of the feedback, this is really helpful. It's a bit of a trek, but I'll head to a shop over the holidays to check out all of the pads to compare and contrast / see if I can snag a demo set. Based upon the above I may just need to go down the Hyperlite route as I know that will suit me.

>So I can't contribute much but I can clear up that the Ultrasonic/Shadow stiffness is a double internal break, and the Mach was a single internal break. 

Yeah I tried the stock Mach break and it was significantly stiffer than I'd like, good to know that Ultrasonic is actually a double internal break...  wish these companies could align on terminology to simplify.

7 hours ago, keeperton said:

I'm not sure what you mean by the strapping. Do you mean the toe ties or the boot strap? The toe ties, save for standard skate lace, are Pro Laces and the pictures in their customizer do a decently fine job (if still confusing, one of us can help clear it up and/or you can check the Pro Laces website). The boot strap is only none, behind heel, or under foot.

I meant the calf/leg strapping rather than the boot straps. I use the Mach boot strap and run it through the Lundy loop on the back my skates, but realistically I have them to tie the pads together to sling them over my shoulder.

[coopaloop1234]

7 minutes ago, RecoveringGoalie1 said:

Yeah I tried the stock Mach break and it was significantly stiffer than I'd like, good to know that Ultrasonic is actually a double internal break...  wish these companies could align on terminology to simplify.

So looking through your complaints on the Bauer pads, most of these would be solved by going with a Vapour base and adjusting your stiffness profile from there. 

The calf strapping between the two lines are interchangeable, so that doesn't matter, but it looks like your complaints were mostly due to sliding and thickness. 

Thickness is solved by going with the Vapour line, it's a thinner pad specifically at the base. The sliding on the Mach pads wasn't good, especially if you didn't go "pro-custom" as you ended up with the 'Gmail' wedge. The shadow calf plate is back to the Ultrasonic style and my Shadows slide just as well as my Ultrasonics did. 

Stock Mach Wedge: 

 

Stock Shadow Wedge: 

 

 

[xmikex32]

Weird I find my shadows slide worse than my M5's. Still slide nice but i get a "sticking" feeling in the shadows. I have had limited use, only two games so it might be hyper fixation and something in the back of my mind. Stiffness is a personal preference but i cant see how anyone can use pads stiffer than shadows/US they are super stiff too me and cant imagine using Machs now.

Wonder how stiff bob's pads are they look pretty straight

[seagoal]

1 hour ago, xmikex32 said:

Weird I find my shadows slide worse than my M5's. Still slide nice but i get a "sticking" feeling in the shadows. I have had limited use, only two games so it might be hyper fixation and something in the back of my mind. Stiffness is a personal preference but i cant see how anyone can use pads stiffer than shadows/US they are super stiff too me and cant imagine using Machs now.

Wonder how stiff bob's pads are they look pretty straight

Shadow pads have such a good, loud pop when they hit the ice.  Took me a bit to get used to how loud they are compared to my previous M5s or of course any of my Vaughn pads. 

[RecoveringGoalie1]

2 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

So looking through your complaints on the Bauer pads, most of these would be solved by going with a Vapour base and adjusting your stiffness profile from there. 

The calf strapping between the two lines are interchangeable, so that doesn't matter, but it looks like your complaints were mostly due to sliding and thickness. 

Thickness is solved by going with the Vapour line, it's a thinner pad specifically at the base. The sliding on the Mach pads wasn't good, especially if you didn't go "pro-custom" as you ended up with the 'Gmail' wedge. The shadow calf plate is back to the Ultrasonic style and my Shadows slide just as well as my Ultrasonics did.

 

Do you know why one is thicker than the other? They both seem to have similar rebound control, and I'm struggling to imagine the benefits of a thicker profile other than perhaps durability and rigidity? Though as you've established they're not the stiffest pads on the market.

Vapour line is the smart and likely choice, but I've always wanted a Lefevre/True pad to see what they're all about as people are almost religious about the rotation and mobility that comes with them. Especially as I'm getting older I'm not sure how many years I have left of playing as I'm becoming more injury prone. My history is Koho 580 -> Vaughn V3 -> (10 year gap)-> Bauer 1s -> Bauer 3X -> Bauer Mach.

 

 

[coopaloop1234]

12 minutes ago, RecoveringGoalie1 said:

Do you know why one is thicker than the other? They both seem to have similar rebound control, and I'm struggling to imagine the benefits of a thicker profile other than perhaps durability and rigidity? Though as you've established they're not the stiffest pads on the market

Mostly to differentiate them from each other. The thinner pads are a bit lighter, but it also comes down to feel. I've never worn the Vapour line, just the Supreme, so I can't comment on any "feel" differences. 

One possible advantage of a thicker pad is the removal of space between the leg and puck. Thicker pad->closer to the puck->more saves. (in theory). Warrior uses that methodology as an advertising gimmick to their pads with CoverEdge. 

 

[xmikex32]

I've had both vapor and supreme pads and i preferer the supreme line too me they just feel more solid and sturdy if that makes sense. I feel like i present bigger when i drop down and more of a wall of hard pads vs softer "smaller" pads. I couldn't really get comfortable with the vapors i didn't really like the table top style boot i felt like my skate was exposed more when down on the ice. I felt smaller in the vapors like they didn't take up as much space and i had a harder time closing and sealing my 5 hole. Granted this was probably all in my head but i didn't have confidence in them so my game struggled. I was coming from M5's and LOVED them and how they felt and played but wanted a all black set and i couldn't find any Medium M5's in black so i tried to replicate them with the vapors but they are just different. 

Sold my vapors last week and got a smoking deal on some black shadows and love them.

[Madmedic6]

A single internal/ single external px4 still has some flex. I also went with the new diamond glide, which has been phenomenal sliding. 

[IpaddyTECH]

54 minutes ago, xmikex32 said:

I've had both vapor and supreme pads and i preferer the supreme line too me they just feel more solid and sturdy if that makes sense. I feel like i present bigger when i drop down and more of a wall of hard pads vs softer "smaller" pads. I couldn't really get comfortable with the vapors i didn't really like the table top style boot i felt like my skate was exposed more when down on the ice. I felt smaller in the vapors like they didn't take up as much space and i had a harder time closing and sealing my 5 hole. Granted this was probably all in my head but i didn't have confidence in them so my game struggled. I was coming from M5's and LOVED them and how they felt and played but wanted a all black set and i couldn't find any Medium M5's in black so i tried to replicate them with the vapors but they are just different. 

Sold my vapors last week and got a smoking deal on some black shadows and love them.

The m5's have cortech on the knee calf wing, with the Mach release and the SLDR1 skin I noticed a lot of postings about the "stickiness" of the pad sliding. Some said it seems to break in, while others just felt it was a worse sliding pad than the cortech of the US or m5, and some added PPF film to fix that. Although Coop is saying his shadows slide as good as the US so that's interesting. 

I have the cortech on my X5's and can confirm it slides much better than Jenpro, but not quite as good as PPF film. I can't comment on true pads but Bauer pads are known for rebound pop that I have doubts that Lefeve has matched yet. To me the strapping looks better (albeit more complicated) on true pads. Like everyone says, it will come down to trying them on and personal preference. 

@RecoveringGoalie1My only suggestion is to not write off the vapor line. They're supple, crazy light, stable, amazing rebounds, simple but responsive strapping. The total package if you ask me, even at the senior level they're great (I was able to try to pro too and opted for the senior). Although some "purists" ( @coopaloop1234 & @xmikex32) will try to tell you that supreme is where it's at. 

Edited December 20, 2024 by IpaddyTECH

[coopaloop1234]

8 minutes ago, IpaddyTECH said:

 Although Coop is saying his shadows slide as good as the US so that's interesting. 

My Shadows slid immediately better than my G7's without slideplates, (Jenpro). Mach's were sticky-ish but were useable. Maybe slightly worse then jenpro at most. 

Quote

lthough some "purists" ( @coopaloop1234 & @xmikex32) will try to tell you that supreme is where it's at. 

[IpaddyTECH]

5 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

My Shadows slid immediately better than my G7's without slideplates, (Jenpro). Mach's were sticky-ish but were useable. Maybe slightly worse then jenpro at most. 

Oh my gosh the vapor user even looks like me lol... 

[keeperton]

11 hours ago, RecoveringGoalie1 said:

Do you know why one is thicker than the other? They both seem to have similar rebound control, and I'm struggling to imagine the benefits of a thicker profile other than perhaps durability and rigidity? Though as you've established they're not the stiffest pads on the market.

Vapour line is the smart and likely choice, but I've always wanted a Lefevre/True pad to see what they're all about as people are almost religious about the rotation and mobility that comes with them. Especially as I'm getting older I'm not sure how many years I have left of playing as I'm becoming more injury prone. My history is Koho 580 -> Vaughn V3 -> (10 year gap)-> Bauer 1s -> Bauer 3X -> Bauer Mach.

 

 

I'm going to go out on limb and say the True PXn pads are better built than a Bauer pad. My "religious experience" with them is how much I like the FRS strapping, it's the main thing that sold me on the pads when I got to demo them.

[xmikex32]

19 hours ago, IpaddyTECH said:

The m5's have cortech on the knee calf wing, with the Mach release and the SLDR1 skin I noticed a lot of postings about the "stickiness" of the pad sliding. Some said it seems to break in, while others just felt it was a worse sliding pad than the cortech of the US or m5, and some added PPF film to fix that. Although Coop is saying his shadows slide as good as the US so that's interesting. 

I have the cortech on my X5's and can confirm it slides much better than Jenpro, but not quite as good as PPF film. I can't comment on true pads but Bauer pads are known for rebound pop that I have doubts that Lefeve has matched yet. To me the strapping looks better (albeit more complicated) on true pads. Like everyone says, it will come down to trying them on and personal preference. 

@RecoveringGoalie1My only suggestion is to not write off the vapor line. They're supple, crazy light, stable, amazing rebounds, simple but responsive strapping. The total package if you ask me, even at the senior level they're great (I was able to try to pro too and opted for the senior). Although some "purists" ( @coopaloop1234 & @xmikex32) will try to tell you that supreme is where it's at. 

I wonder if they give the pros R1 skin or if they can make them with cortech. I’m sure their technique and fundamentals is light years ahead of any of us so it might be a moot point for them. 

[RockyMountainTendy]

21 hours ago, Madmedic6 said:

A single internal/ single external px4 still has some flex

are you able to get more curve out of it than an ultrasonic? 

[Madmedic6]

21 hours ago, RockyMountainTendy said:

are you able to get more curve out of it than an ultrasonic? 

It's pretty straight still, no curve in the thigh at all. 

[ser33]

On 12/21/2024 at 11:14 PM, RockyMountainTendy said:

are you able to get more curve out of it than an ultrasonic? 

It is possible if you yourself increase their curvature in the hip lift. either in the classic way by storing them upside down, but this will take a lot of time, or by placing the pad on two supports with the upper part and the lower part where the bend of the shoe is and placing a weight in the knee area on the pad

I personally have not used Ultrasonic, although I have one pair with broken knee blocks awaiting repair and have never used anything from True, but knowing their internal structure and communicating with people who have seen them from the inside, you can make some assumptions

True uses several layers of thick and very hard foam which, even in the absence of breaks (marked in red), as a result of bending the pad in one of the ways described above, will allow you to change their curvature, although this will be very difficult to do

Bauer uses different modifications of the outer foam on different models. on Suprema it is one thick sheet reinforced on both sides by Curv on HL2 it is three layers of foam of different hardness, which makes this sandwich more flexible. in any case, Bauer will have one internal break under the knee (marked in green), even if it was not originally intended, over time it will “break” and be a full break.

This is the design of the core and the materials used

based on the design, it is obvious that the True out of the box will feel stiffer than the Bauer, having a larger amount and thickness of foam used

thus, both pads can, if desired, be followed with greater curvature in the hip lift, regardless of their initial rigidity. This will be easier on pads with internal breaks. it’s easier on Bauer than on True, but in any case it’s possible

 

Edited December 23, 2024 by ser33

[RockyMountainTendy]

2 hours ago, ser33 said:

This will be easier on pads with internal breaks

Reason I kinda hijacked this thread is cause I had the same question as recoveringgoalie. 
 

im currently in ultrasonic spec hyper lite 2’s but due to my injury and diagnosis with fai, i want to transition to a more curved pad. And I really like the feel of true gear I tried. If I decide to get true gear it’ll probably be the PX3 thin stiff single internal and external. However my original plan was getting the new Vaughn VX1 line and I love the pads and blocker but I’m a 580 guy so I’m worried about me not liking a 70 degree. I know I’m kinda going off topic I like to yap. I’m also very particular on things matching. 
 

so anyways I just would want to know if I could get a slightly more curved pad with the spec I get out of true. If you don’t think I should risk it and I should just go with Vaughn ima do that 

Edited December 23, 2024 by RockyMountainTendy

[xmikex32]

3 hours ago, RockyMountainTendy said:

Reason I kinda hijacked this thread is cause I had the same question as recoveringgoalie. 
 

im currently in ultrasonic spec hyper lite 2’s but due to my injury and diagnosis with fai, i want to transition to a more curved pad. And I really like the feel of true gear I tried. If I decide to get true gear it’ll probably be the PX3 thin stiff single internal and external. However my original plan was getting the new Vaughn VX1 line and I love the pads and blocker but I’m a 580 guy so I’m worried about me not liking a 70 degree. I know I’m kinda going off topic I like to yap. I’m also very particular on things matching. 
 

so anyways I just would want to know if I could get a slightly more curved pad with the spec I get out of true. If you don’t think I should risk it and I should just go with Vaughn ima do that 

it wouldn't be Bauer or True but the optiks MAX core is pretty pre curved and a stiffer pad. IDK what size or color you are looking at but TGC has some optik3's at a pretty good deal and even cheaper wit he CAD to USD. Where in CO are you located BTW?

[IpaddyTECH]

7 hours ago, RockyMountainTendy said:

I’m a 580 guy so I’m worried about me not liking a 70 degree

One 580 guy here tried them all and liked the Vaughn 70 the most of all the 580 style gloves, even over True. Forgot his name sorry! Brian's Eclipse is also great if you go the Optik route. 

[RockyMountainTendy]

9 hours ago, xmikex32 said:

optiks MAX core is pretty pre curved and a stiffer pad.

I loved the pads and eclipse blocker but the glove felt weird on the break compared to my vapor90. I didn’t hate it but I actually liked the optik4 glove better than the eclipse. Other issue with Brian’s is they take forever to manufacture, and a couple guys I know in the repair world are starting to complain about them now saying that there’s been a dip in quality. On top of that a few of my goalie buddies said they didn’t love how it sat in my flare. It got me good 5 hole coverage but it was too straight on the sides.

 

5 hours ago, IpaddyTECH said:

Vaughn 70 the most of all the 580 style gloves, even over True.

How does it feel on the hand in comparison? Does it actually feel like a 580 or is it like a hybrid of a 580 and 590?

Edit: oh wait you said someone else tried it…sorry, but the question stands if any who have used it could you let me know 

Edited December 23, 2024 by RockyMountainTendy

[Toobs]

On 12/23/2024 at 10:38 AM, IpaddyTECH said:

One 580 guy here tried them all and liked the Vaughn 70 the most of all the 580 style gloves, even over True. Forgot his name sorry! Brian's Eclipse is also great if you go the Optik route. 

That was me!

 

On 12/23/2024 at 1:37 PM, RockyMountainTendy said:

I loved the pads and eclipse blocker but the glove felt weird on the break compared to my vapor90. I didn’t hate it but I actually liked the optik4 glove better than the eclipse. Other issue with Brian’s is they take forever to manufacture, and a couple guys I know in the repair world are starting to complain about them now saying that there’s been a dip in quality. On top of that a few of my goalie buddies said they didn’t love how it sat in my flare. It got me good 5 hole coverage but it was too straight on the sides.

 

How does it feel on the hand in comparison? Does it actually feel like a 580 or is it like a hybrid of a 580 and 590?

Edit: oh wait you said someone else tried it…sorry, but the question stands if any who have used it could you let me know 

It feels very similar to a 580, with just some slight differences. It was very comfortable and caught everything extremely well.

Both the Vaughn 70 and Brians eclipse are very similar to a true 580 but also slightly different. Vaughn’s is ever so slightly less upright, which I actually liked cause it made low glove saves a bit easier and I didn’t notice much of a difference in catching shots by the ear. The only thing I didn’t like about it is the same issue I’ve always had with Vaughn gloves, that the break seam is really noticeable on your palm. Some people don’t mind this but others find it annoying.

The Brian’s is much more pancake shaped when open compared to the more banana shape of the others. Its overlap closure is a bit more exaggerated than the others as well. It has by far the best wrist mobility and is the easiest to present out in front of you the largest, and is definitely the lightest weight.

The True/Leferve probably still feels the most natural, probably cause I’ve been using it for years since the Reebok days and it hasn’t changed much. It does everything well but also doesn’t have one thing that stands out about the rest.

I’m ultimately sticking with True just cause I like their leg pads the best by far.

Edited December 25, 2024 by Toobs