The Athletic: Islanders Goalie Robin Lehner Opens Up About his Addiction and Bipolar Diagnosis

[coopaloop1234]

https://theathletic.com/522117/2018/09/13/islanders-goalie-robin-lehner-opens-up-about-his-addiction-and-bipolar-diagnosis-i-could-not-stand-being-alone-in-my-brain/

Definitely a good read.

[stackem30]

I'm only up to the part about his diagnosis (busy day in the office), but this is a great read. It certainly makes me reconsider my entire view of Lehner — I'd written him off as a jerk, someone who was completely disinterested in controlling their behavior, someone who put their ego before everything else. This is a good reminder that there is often so much more buried underneath the persona we're presented with. People are not tidy packages to be easily understood at a glance. They are complex.

Major props to Lehner for opening up about this. Very difficult, and very brave. And as much as I roll my eyes at the vast majority of 'confessional' articles on Players' Tribune and other sites, these types of articles ARE important. The macho culture casts a major shadow on hockey in particular, and it's important to see certain types of players open up about their struggles. I don't think it's a stretch to think that articles like these can save lives, or at least alter them for the better.

I'll certainly look at Lehner through a new lens this season. I'm as surprised as anyone to say that I'm rooting for him now. 

[southpawtendy48]

This hit home for me to a decent amount.

I’ve always liked Lehner, although he might’ve gone too far on the ice at some points, you never know what’s going on with the person.

it really is a battle before the game even starts. I still struggle with this. 

While I’d never open up to the world like he did anytime soon (for other reasons), he’s certainly a brave guy for doing this. He’s definitely become one of my biggest inspirations before this but even more now. He’s got my full support. 

[SaveByRichter35]

Good read.

On 9/13/2018 at 3:34 PM, stackem30 said:

I'm only up to the part about his diagnosis (busy day in the office), but this is a great read. It certainly makes me reconsider my entire view of Lehner — I'd written him off as a jerk, someone who was completely disinterested in controlling their behavior, someone who put their ego before everything else. This is a good reminder that there is often so much more buried underneath the persona we're presented with. People are not tidy packages to be easily understood at a glance. They are complex.

Major props to Lehner for opening up about this. Very difficult, and very brave. And as much as I roll my eyes at the vast majority of 'confessional' articles on Players' Tribune and other sites, these types of articles ARE important. The macho culture casts a major shadow on hockey in particular, and it's important to see certain types of players open up about their struggles. I don't think it's a stretch to think that articles like these can save lives, or at least alter them for the better.

I'll certainly look at Lehner through a new lens this season. I'm as surprised as anyone to say that I'm rooting for him now. 

 I guess I never really paid much attention to him throughout the years, what made you think he was a jerk and everything else you mentioned about him?  I had the same questions for myself when I read the part where he described the interviews he had.  GMs asking why he is such a bad person and team mate.  Again, guess I never paid much attention.  I don't recall any negative stories about him.

[Max27]

This article really shows you to not judge people until you know their whole story. People say he can be a top goalie and he lets himself get in the way of his own potential, unknowing that he had a substance abuse issue.
Mad props to him for opening up about this, glad he said something before he let it manifest it into suicide. Really happy he's my teams goalie. 
People to tend to write him off as a hothead, as a lunatic, and its all true, but this really shows how he was fighting his own demons the whole time. 

¨I never got an offer and learned through the media that the teams I had met with had signed other goalies. My faith that I didn’t have before rehab was now being tested. It all changed when I got a call from Lou Lamoriello and the Islanders. I had two great meetings with him and, looking back now, those meetings became some of the of the best moments in my life. We talked about family and life.¨ a direct few lines from his letter from the athletic, really shows you how you really dont know peoples full story based off their outer appearance. Good on him for going to rehab and cleaning his image up. Much respect.

[Max27]

17 hours ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

Good read.

 I guess I never really paid much attention to him throughout the years, what made you think he was a jerk and everything else you mentioned about him?  I had the same questions for myself when I read the part where he described the interviews he had.  GMs asking why he is such a bad person and team mate.  Again, guess I never paid much attention.  I don't recall any negative stories about him.

Fuck the GMs asking why hes a bad person and teammate

[bunnyman666]

20 minutes ago, Max27 said:

Fuck the GMs asking why hes a bad person and teammate

It shows that people still don’t treat addiction as a disease and that there is still a stigma in mental illness. This attitude MUST be changed or people will needlessly turn to chemical dependency.

Being a pro goalie is very much a “world on your shoulders” type of job and kind of a thankless job in many cases. You get blamed despite bad forechecking and pylons for defence. If your team wins the Cup, the leading scorer gets almost all of the credit. 

I chose to be a goalie and I do NOT take it too seriously (which pisses off the Tommy Tryhards at drop-in; FUCK those cunts) and I just have fun and laugh when I let in a goal;  but when your livelihood can be affected from a bad game, I can EASILY see how one can turn to chemical dependency.  You are treated as livestock in pro sports and a stupid general manager can cut you whenever they want if the ticket holders groan about the goalie, even if they understand FUCK ALL about hockey.

I hope Robin can get his head together and work through this in order to have a long, prosperous career.

[SaveByRichter35]

Addiction is not a disease.  Cancer is a disease.  Addiction is poor decision making and a lack of discipline.  

[stackem30]

4 minutes ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

Addiction is not a disease.  Cancer is a disease.  Addiction is poor decision making and a lack of discipline.  

The vast majority of doctors and psychologists who study addiction would disagree with you, as do I. But that's a whole can of worms I don't really feel like getting into, and I'm not looking to change your opinion.

I didn't like Lehner because of his on-ice behavior, mostly. Some bad tantrums, plenty of cheap-shots on opposing players, a short temper, etc. He also made some comments about the NHL conspiring to give wins to Toronto after a goal review went against him (the puck had clearly gone in), and there were a few other instances I didn't love where he complained about things in the media. I'm not saying he did anything wrong in these instances— plenty of fans liked his fiery persona. I just didn't like how he carried himself, personally. I felt as though he was over-combative, constantly looking for a fight or a reason to sound off. 

As I said, it's pretty easy for me to view his behavior a bit differently now that I know more about his story. Everyone's mileage may vary in these cases.

[bunnyman666]

11 minutes ago, stackem30 said:

The vast majority of doctors and psychologists who study addiction would disagree with you, as do I. But that's a whole can of worms I don't really feel like getting into, and I'm not looking to change your opinion.

I didn't like Lehner because of his on-ice behavior, mostly. Some bad tantrums, plenty of cheap-shots on opposing players, a short temper, etc. He also made some comments about the NHL conspiring to give wins to Toronto after a goal review went against him (the puck had clearly gone in), and there were a few other instances I didn't love where he complained about things in the media. I'm not saying he did anything wrong in these instances— plenty of fans liked his fiery persona. I just didn't like how he carried himself, personally. I felt as though he was over-combative, constantly looking for a fight or a reason to sound off. 

As I said, it's pretty easy for me to view his behavior a bit differently now that I know more about his story. Everyone's mileage may vary in these cases.

I have had this argument about whether or not chemical dependency is a disease too many times. I am not going there. 

Chemicals end up doing weird things to people, and half of that behaviour IS the physical dependency on the chemicals and needing MORE. I really did not know all that much about Lehner, frankly; knowing many friends of mine that suffered from chemical dependency (and were lucky enough to get ahead of their demons) were different people when they used and even MORE different when experiencing withdrawal. But Lehner’s reported behaviour is indicative of chemical dependency.

Again- I pray for ALL who have these demons because their lives become all about getting high again.

[estogoalie]

3 hours ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

Addiction is not a disease.  Cancer is a disease.  Addiction is poor decision making and a lack of discipline.  

It's a complicated issue, with alot of different takes on it, but I see addiction and depression as a treatable/recoverable form of mental illness. It's not so as easy as "hey man, snap out of it". Recovery is a long, hard road. For sure discipline is a part of it. But the ones who are currently suffering from it don't always realize whats going on, or how they can get treatment. To simply resign them as being "lazy idiots" is a very simplistic/naive/ignorant way of looking at it.

I would like to see the NHL treat their players more as humans rather than some "race horses" or "pieces of meat" or whatever, but I'm not so sure that is going to happen every time. I think it's great how Crag Anderson was given some personal time off when his wife had cancer, but I don't know if teams will go so far every time. Maybe they kind of "had to" in that case because of the high visibility (can you imagine the backlash if they didn't?) But alcholism, depression, etc. are internal battles, and it's not often so visible. Alot of people don't understand and are just like "hey man, snap out of it", and the lack of understanding makes it harder for suffering people to ask for help. And in a high-pressure place like the NHL, teams don't want to see their "race horse" get sick, especially if it's an illness that they think they can just "snap out of", so alot of guys like Lehner will just keep it to themselves, until it finally reaches a boiling point when they either die or ask for help.

I didn't read the full article, sounds like it was written by the same guy who wrote all the other articles like this. I felt like I was re-reading the Cory Hirsch article from a few months ago. But I don't care. I think the NHL should be putting out the word internally, inside each organization, that if ANY player feels like he needs some form of mental hep, that he should be able to step forward and ask for that help without fear of losing his job or having any negative repercussions. And make that clear. Or even better, some policy on the NHLPA.

[SaveByRichter35]

I'm fine with labeling addiction as a treatable mental illness but it is not a disease.  You can't just get an addiction.  You have to make the poor decision and have the lack of judgement to put something into your body in order to form an addiction to it.  Its not the same as cancer, MS, ALS, etc.  You're not going to wake up one day addicted to heroine or crack or meth like you can with breast cancer, prostate cancer, cervix cancer, etc.  I know I am not some world renowned doctor and my opinion means jack shit.  It is just my opinion.  

[Puckducker]

I'm not going to wake up with Malaria either. Still a disease. 

[Max27]

6 hours ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

Addiction is not a disease.  Cancer is a disease.  Addiction is poor decision making and a lack of discipline.  

He said ¨I could not stand being alone in my brain¨ safe to say its a disease. 

Its not poor decision making and a lack of discipline. Yes, if you are doing it for no reason, or trying to look ¨cool¨ yes thats poor decision making. He had to take sleeping pills to go to sleep and had to drink every night bc he was bipolar. 

[SaveByRichter35]

28 minutes ago, Max27 said:

He said ¨I could not stand being alone in my brain¨ safe to say its a disease. 

Its not poor decision making and a lack of discipline. Yes, if you are doing it for no reason, or trying to look ¨cool¨ yes thats poor decision making. He had to take sleeping pills to go to sleep and had to drink every night bc he was bipolar. 

Max you're what, 15 years old?  I don't expect you to 100% understand everything going on here but we'll try to break it down barney style for you.  He has a mental disorder, bipolar syndrome, as well as other mental disorders such as PTSD, which he clearly stated that he was diagnosed with in the article.  He took the pills to help him sleep because his mental disorders made his life borderline unbearable.  He said it clearly in the article that he didn't wanna look weak and get help so he made the choice to take those pills.  He made the choice to drink alcohol with those pills.  He knew he could have gotten help.  He chose to self medicate instead.  He then became addicted to those pills and alcohol.  That is 100% poor judgement.  That is not a disease.  

I'm glad the guy finally realized he needed a change and got himself clean.  That's fucking awesome.  I hope he goes on to live a much happier life and has a better NHL career.  I am not bashing him at all.  I just don't believe in the "addiction is a disease" bullshit.

[motowngoalie]

52 minutes ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

Max you're what, 15 years old?  I don't expect you to 100% understand everything going on here but we'll try to break it down barney style for you.

Dude, this just negates anything you said after that. Don't be a condescending prick.

[Max27]

51 minutes ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

Max you're what, 15 years old?  I don't expect you to 100% understand everything going on here but we'll try to break it down barney style for you.  He has a mental disorder, bipolar syndrome, as well as other mental disorders such as PTSD, which he clearly stated that he was diagnosed with in the article.  He took the pills to help him sleep because his mental disorders made his life borderline unbearable.  He said it clearly in the article that he didn't wanna look weak and get help so he made the choice to take those pills.  He made the choice to drink alcohol with those pills.  He knew he could have gotten help.  He chose to self medicate instead.  He then became addicted to those pills and alcohol.  That is 100% poor judgement.  That is not a disease.  

I'm glad the guy finally realized he needed a change and got himself clean.  That's fucking awesome.  I hope he goes on to live a much happier life and has a better NHL career.  I am not bashing him at all.  I just don't believe in the "addiction is a disease" bullshit.

It was a mark of his pride not getting help earlier. he said he didnt want to show weakness so he bottled his emotions and self medicated himself. that is the stupid decision yes, but having bipolar, PTSD, ADHD, Panic Attacks, and not getting being able to get out of the insane, dark mentality he had is borderline disease. 

At least the way i see it, Addiction by choice isnt a disease, its poor choice-making skills.

Addiction by not being able to stand living with yourself and fighting multiple demons at once, and having the immense pressure of being a starting goaltender in the highest level of pro sports driving you into a pain to the point where taking drugs and drinking was the only way to feel better is in a way a disease. 

[SaveByRichter35]

17 minutes ago, motowngoalie said:

Dude, this just negates anything you said after that. Don't be a condescending prick.

.  And his response is exactly why I sounded like a condescending prick.  I knew what was coming.

[SaveByRichter35]

15 minutes ago, Max27 said:

It was a mark of his pride not getting help earlier. he said he didnt want to show weakness so he bottled his emotions and self medicated himself. that is the stupid decision yes,

Exactly what I already said.

Quote

but having bipolar, PTSD, ADHD, Panic Attacks, and not getting being able to get out of the insane, dark mentality he had is borderline disease. 

None of which are an addiction.  Which is what my argument is about.  I've never said he didn't have any kind of mental disorder so I don't have a fucking clue what you're getting at here.

Quote

At least the way i see it, Addiction by choice isnt a disease, its poor choice-making skills.

Again, this is exactly what I already said.

Quote

Addiction by not being able to stand living with yourself and fighting multiple demons at once, and having the immense pressure of being a starting goaltender in the highest level of pro sports driving you into a pain to the point where taking drugs and drinking was the only way to feel better is in a way a disease.

No, it is not.  Being an NHL goaltender doesn't negate the fact that he made a decision to put something in his body, nor does it excuse said decision.  What in the actual fuck are you even talking about?

[Max27]

2 minutes ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

Exactly what I already said.

None of which are an addiction.  Which is what my argument is about.  I've never said he didn't have any kind of mental disorder so I don't have a fucking clue what you're getting at here.

Again, this is exactly what I already said.

No, it is not.  Being an NHL goaltender doesn't negate the fact that he made a decision to put something in his body, nor does it excuse said decision.  What in the actual fuck are you even talking about?

1. ik

2.didnt say they were addictions, theyre things that cause stress, cause people to not feel well, etc. which leads to drug use, as it makes you feel better.

3.ok

4. didnt say being an nhl goaltender excuses it, i said being an nhl goaltender causes stress and immense pressure. two things that can make you not feel well. what do you want when you dont feel well? to feel better, obviously. in some cases, like lehners, drugs will make you fell better

what dont you get? mental illness is a disease. ADHD, depression and bipolar are all mental illnesses, 3 demons Lehner has been fighting

[SaveByRichter35]

Max you're from Long Island, as am I.  I'm sure you're aware of the ongoing heroine epidemic here on the Island?  Kids in high school dying due to "overdose".  I'm sure you've heard of it happening to kids in your school.  These idiot kids, and idiot adults alike, made the decision to try heroine for god know whatever stupid reason they had.  They weren't addicted to it prior to trying it.  Only after they made the decision to put that shit in their body.  The only disease present here is stupidity.

[SaveByRichter35]

15 minutes ago, Max27 said:

1. ik

2.didnt say they were addictions, theyre things that cause stress, cause people to not feel well, etc. which leads to drug use, as it makes you feel better.

3.ok

4. didnt say being an nhl goaltender excuses it, i said being an nhl goaltender causes stress and immense pressure. two things that can make you not feel well. what do you want when you dont feel well? to feel better, obviously. in some cases, like lehners, drugs will make you fell better

what dont you get? mental illness is a disease. ADHD, depression and bipolar are all mental illnesses, 3 demons Lehner has been fighting

WHAT?????  Where, in ANY of my posts, did I make the argument that mental disorders are not diseases?  (Which they're not, they're disorders.)  My argument is against ADDICTION, Max.  Go back to playing fortnite.

[SaveByRichter35]

19 minutes ago, Max27 said:

4. didnt say being an nhl goaltender excuses it, i said being an nhl goaltender causes stress and immense pressure. two things that can make you not feel well. what do you want when you dont feel well? to feel better, obviously. in some cases, like lehners, drugs will make you fell better

Idk Max, I've never once felt the desire to take pills in order to make myself feel better.  Though reading your responses is really making me want a drink right about now.

[southpawtendy48]

6 hours ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

WHAT?????  Where, in ANY of my posts, did I make the argument that mental disorders are not diseases?  (Which they're not, they're disorders.)  My argument is against ADDICTION, Max.  Go back to playing fortnite.

Ok, we get it, addiction isn’t a disease, yes it is poor decision making but that’s just telling someone hey, you can’t be depressed! Robin dealt with a lot in his childhood let alone in his hockey career. that doesn’t give him the excuse to abuse drugs, but being that depressed might make you think there’s no way out but that.

and ok, just because he’s 15-16 years old (me included )doesn’t mean shit. maybe he doesn’t have as much knowledge with the disease aspect but that doesn’t mean we don’t know what it’s like to struggle and to have those thoughts constantly. 

 I’m not saying you don’t feel it, but it can get that bad. Maybe one day he felt like f*ck it, maybe this will help even with it being a last resort, you can’t just stop taking it. It’s one of the hardest things ever

No one wants to hear that you would never think of taking anything to help you feel better. Tell that to people with CTE. in no way am I comparing myself to them but I’m still young but still sometimes it gets so bad to where I have those thoughts of doing something irrational like that, even if you say to yourself and others you wouldn’t do it, it can change like day and night, and one day it can just snap. 

[estogoalie]

5 hours ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

Max you're from Long Island, as am I.  I'm sure you're aware of the ongoing heroine epidemic here on the Island?  Kids in high school dying due to "overdose".  I'm sure you've heard of it happening to kids in your school.  These idiot kids, and idiot adults alike, made the decision to try heroine for god know whatever stupid reason they had.  They weren't addicted to it prior to trying it.  Only after they made the decision to put that shit in their body.  The only disease present here is stupidity.

There's a long chain of things that happen before someone sticks a needle in their arm that you are not seeing. Every story is different. Don't judge someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes kinda thing. I mean alcohol is legal, and even encouraged especially in sports circles. Have you ever said somebody is an idiot and made a poor decision to pick up a beer? What if they slide into alcoholism? And then their life goes down the tubes, and they start looking for something stronger, and a dope dealer comes by? It's not always the case that somebody with a good, normal life suddenly makes a  "bad decision" to start shooting dope. I mean yea, sometimes it is the case, some bored rich suburban kids decide to try it for thrills, but that's probably a small percentage of cases. But many times there's alot of things/problems going on before that. You can't simply paint everyone with the same brush. And bottom line, regardless of the various reasons how they got there, they are people who are suffering and need help and shouldn't be ridiculed with "it's your own stupid fault" kind of talk.