How to NOT ruin a business

[bunnyman666]

I have had a fair few bad exchanges with different businesses recently. I am writing this as a general piece and not targeted towards anyone, though I do have something ongoing with a small retailer that is almost boiling over. If the resolution is not satisfactory, then I am going to name names. Though precipitated by recent events, this is general unless I state specific examples. 

1) State your shipping terms plainly in the checkout page of your website.

This can lead to a lot of confusion and frustration with customers when this is not plainly stated. If you only ship on the following Monday, plainly state that on your checkout page. If there is a two day wait, make it plain in several conspicuous places on your website. And if you require a signature for deliveries, make it plain above the shipping address field that you require signatures. Many of us work during typical delivery times and can't sign for our packages. Driving to the nearest shipping hub can be very, very inconvenient.

2) Communication is key.  

Make certain your customers know what is going on. Even an out of office notification that states that you will return emails within 24 hours helps make certain your customers are not left hanging. But you had better follow up!

3) Keep your promises. 

I have the perfect, timely example for this: In the situation that is ongoing, I was promised all sorts of things that have yet to be delivered upon. I was told that I was going to get a refund plus two items for free for my inconvenience. That was Tuesday. It is now Thursday, and no confirmation on refund or anything. I had even said that the second item was not necessary, but never heard back (see item 2). 

Who knows when this clown is going to make good. At the moment, it seems that I am more likely to win the lottery than get  what was promised to me.

Word gets around when promises are broken, and it kills businesses every day. 

4) Be upfront. 

This goes back to points one and two. If you are unable/unwilling to do something, state it in plain terms upfront; don't make the customer needle it out of you. Again- if it takes three days to process an order, put it on your website, on the checkout terms, and in the emailed receipt. It is not unreasonable to think that since Amazon ships the same day, your business should, too; unless you state plainly that it doesn't. Most of us are fine with a delay if we know it up front. 

5) Solve problems QUICKLY

This is where a small complaint can mushroom into a public relations nightmare. Look at Monster Goalie's reputation- simple problems and communications problems have led to people not trusting them. 

If there is a problem, it should be addressed within 24 hours. Warranty issues should be addressed within a day. Lack of tracking numbers should be addressed within a day.  A customer should never be left wondering what happened to their stuff. A customer should not have the time between reporting their problem and having it solved to go on various forums and social media to broadcast their problems. Let's face it- customers are more likely to spew out their hearts about problems they are having with a company against shouting problem-free transactions from the mountain tops!

In summary:

It is not unreasonable to ask about the status of orders when no time frame was given up front. Make us aware that this is your side gig IF that is the case. But if we have problems, make SOLVING them your priority. If you spell out terms and details, you are more likely to keep potential problems at bay.

[jayluv54]

I agree with you on all points completely, it is important to understand that just because someone opens or runs a business, especially a small one, that they are not necessarily a business man/woman.  My wife and I are both accountants, I choose to work in government while she prefers doing books for small to medium size businesses.  She has clients that have come to her after being open a full year because they just found out they are supposed be charging/collecting/remitting taxes.  WTF...that's Business 101.  Obviously a different scenario, but it speaks volumes to how easily it is for someone to get in over their head because they had an idea to do something they love or are good at, but didn't take the time to assess how they were going to handle suppliers, demand, shipping, customer service, taxes, legal issues, etc...  

However, sometimes its more deliberate than that, its just bad business and we call a spade, a spade.  We learn and we move on.  I for one will never buy anything from whats his face over there at BAHR after he sold me a PII chesty where every nylon adjustment strap ripped clean in half when I tried to tighten them.  He tried to tell me it was my fault and I destroyed the item, so I wasn't getting a refund.  Luckily I bought it on Ebay and they thought differently.  But it was a clear indicator of how he does business and therefore I will never buy anything from him again.    

[bunnyman666]

@jayluv54 It kills me how people don't do their due dilligence before opening their doors! Some people lack so much common sense when it comes to this stuff.

Then there are the others. Karma ALWAYS catches up.

[WillyGrips13]

I made a comment on one of the other forums recently that this industry (Small goalie gear companies) seems to attract deadbeats. I was shouted down. I still think there are far too many stories about dysfunctional business practices among these small gear manufacturers. I just hope these companies turn their acts around and aren't actually trying to be dirtbags. 

[bunnyman666]

42 minutes ago, WillyGrips13 said:

I made a comment on one of the other forums recently that this industry (Small goalie gear companies) seems to attract deadbeats. I was shouted down. I still think there are far too many stories about dysfunctional business practices among these small gear manufacturers. I just hope these companies turn their acts around and aren't actually trying to be dirtbags. 

I remember. I don't disagree with you AT ALL!!! But all specialties that aren't super popular get dirt bags.

If I did not defend you, please accept my apologies.

[bunnyman666]

The current situation has, at least, resulted in a refund. Still- it took me keeping after this individual. Even though he promised two items free, I am not holding him to it. The main complaints were the time it took from ordering (Thursday morning to late Monday night) for time it took the item to ship and having to sign for my item and not knowing this until I received my shipping info from FedEx, which means that I may never be able to pick up my item. My only day off is Sunday, and the shipping distribution points are closed (they need a day off, too!). I am also going to check with my bank to make certain I did get my refund. 

Our responsibility in these types of situations is to do all the research possible. I have to say that another new rule of mine is to not buy anything over $100 from someone you can't call first, unless you have the protection of eBay or paypal.  I did end up with a phone number, as I left two angry emails on their website contact form; it took the second one to get a phone call back, as well as the threat of naming them on every hockey forum where I am a member. Ask them how long it typically takes from order to fulfillment and shipping. Is their true inventory reflected on their website? Is there the possibility that you may end up buying something that was in their physical store front, and it may take a day later to find out that it was sold in their store? What is the return policy?  

Is it fun to go through crap like this? No. 

I am not going to name this company unless the refund did not come through. However, what I will say is that you should not trust slick websites if policies are not plainly stated on the website. If you can't find a phone number, contact them via email and ask them to call you to explain their policies. Talking to someone can also help you to judge whether or not they deserve your hard earned dollars. You may save yourself the frustration I just went through if you take these steps.

[jayluv54]

Its a niche market and people think they can profit off of niche markets.  Personally I've never bought anything from the smaller companies in this industry with the exception of Michel @ Protechsport because I think its all overpriced.  There's nothing out there revolutionary or innovative that most of these guys do and I wont pay a 300%+ markup for things that I can easily source and make myself in under 20 min and at a fraction of the cost.

[bunnyman666]

41 minutes ago, jayluv54 said:

Its a niche market and people think they can profit off of niche markets.  Personally I've never bought anything from the smaller companies in this industry with the exception of Michel @ Protechsport because I think its all overpriced.  There's nothing out there revolutionary or innovative that most of these guys do and I wont pay a 300%+ markup for things that I can easily source and make myself in under 20 min and at a fraction of the cost.

I don't disagree. If I had the time, I already have designed a better system on a bar mat that would kick these toe tie systems to the curb! But I don't have the time...

Michel runs a business the old fashioned way. He ticks all of the boxes as far as I'm concerned.

It's also the small web stores that can be sketchy. I don't want to generalise here, as there are very good business people running web stores. But I have found some web store owners would get eaten alive if they were just a brick and mortar store because they don't posess the personality or the business acumen to run a business. You can hide behind a slick website; you can't hide behind a slick store front. 

[jayluv54]

There's also something to be said for purchasing through retailers.  That's really the best place to get buyer protection and good customer service.   Like I mentioned earlier about the experience I had with BAHR.  If I had gone to their website and purchased direct, I would have been screwed, but because I used Ebay, I had support.  Same thing with my Warrior G3 set I purchased from Hockey Giant.  It blew me away when they let me return the leg pads after having used them for 3 weeks, simply because I wasn't happy with them.  They earned the repeat business of a gear whore with that one.  

[Nova]

Sometimes I have to wonder if companies ever consider the damage they do to themselves in such situations. Being a young start-up and experiencing some growing pains is to be expected, but it needs to be a learning experience. Own the mistake, move forward in a better manner. To keep doing the same thing over and over is pathetic. And honestly I think social media plays a part in this, there are so many product cheerleaders for these little guys it is pretty sad, many of them give me the vibe of basically being paid shills. So these legitimate concerns get kicked to the curb, or overshadowed by all the other product cheerleading. It just enables people pretending to be businessmen to just keep doing a crappy job.

To some people it may not matter, but I take the negative stories into account when I keep seeing them pertaining to the same companies. I wanted to give shock cord toe ties a try. They are no doubt pretty easy to make, but at the same time they are relatively cheap. I would have just bought some, but with all the stories about non-delivery, poor communication, vague timelines, etc, I shied away. All the excuses from the other side don't add up: if you can't meet product demand for one item, stop trying to come up with new "revolutionary" pieces of equipment and stick to it until you can handle the work load. For me, I made my own toe ties. And tomorrow I will be making two more sets for other people. Losing three customers, it's not a lot in the grand scheme of things, but I know there are a ton of other people doing the same thing I am.

[bunnyman666]

1 hour ago, Nova said:

Sometimes I have to wonder if companies ever consider the damage they do to themselves in such situations. Being a young start-up and experiencing some growing pains is to be expected, but it needs to be a learning experience. Own the mistake, move forward in a better manner. To keep doing the same thing over and over is pathetic. And honestly I think social media plays a part in this, there are so many product cheerleaders for these little guys it is pretty sad, many of them give me the vibe of basically being paid shills. So these legitimate concerns get kicked to the curb, or overshadowed by all the other product cheerleading. It just enables people pretending to be businessmen to just keep doing a crappy job.

To some people it may not matter, but I take the negative stories into account when I keep seeing them pertaining to the same companies. I wanted to give shock cord toe ties a try. They are no doubt pretty easy to make, but at the same time they are relatively cheap. I would have just bought some, but with all the stories about non-delivery, poor communication, vague timelines, etc, I shied away. All the excuses from the other side don't add up: if you can't meet product demand for one item, stop trying to come up with new "revolutionary" pieces of equipment and stick to it until you can handle the work load. For me, I made my own toe ties. And tomorrow I will be making two more sets for other people. Losing three customers, it's not a lot in the grand scheme of things, but I know there are a ton of other people doing the same thing I am.

But losing three customers has vast implications. People tend to shout bad experiences from the rooftops. People will share good experiences much more subtly and quieter. In the information age, how you treat people can make your reputation into mud quickly.

[Nova]

4 hours ago, bunnyman666 said:

But losing three customers has vast implications. People tend to shout bad experiences from the rooftops. People will share good experiences much more subtly and quieter. In the information age, how you treat people can make your reputation into mud quickly.

You're right. That was kind of what I meant to say, it seems insignificant......one person being turned off by the bad reviews. But that one person turned into 3 potential customers real quick, and maybe more in time. And there are many other people who do the same thing. It all adds up in the long run to be a bit more significant when you look at the big picture.

The good experiences vs bad experiences thing is hard to tell some days, but I think that really depends on the types of social media a person follows. I prefer forums, personally. Things like facebook, twitter and instagram can be garbage most of the time, IMO......that's where I speak of people acting like paid shills or sheep following the heard so to speak.

[bunnyman666]

12 hours ago, Nova said:

You're right. That was kind of what I meant to say, it seems insignificant......one person being turned off by the bad reviews. But that one person turned into 3 potential customers real quick, and maybe more in time. And there are many other people who do the same thing. It all adds up in the long run to be a bit more significant when you look at the big picture.

The good experiences vs bad experiences thing is hard to tell some days, but I think that really depends on the types of social media a person follows. I prefer forums, personally. Things like facebook, twitter and instagram can be garbage most of the time, IMO......that's where I speak of people acting like paid shills or sheep following the heard so to speak.

When I call people out in a forum, I use my full name. My goal is NOT to put people out of business. My goal is for them to remember that people are watching. I am not most likely the ONLY one out there who feels that they are not being treated well. Also- when they think they can ignore emails, calling them out makes others aware. The goal is NOT to put them out of business, but instead to be made whole. I would rather never have to do that. If they do right, this can actually end up being a good thing. If the company being called out acts childish, then everybody knows to stay away. 

If calling people out ends up as a learning experience for the offending business owner, then all can benefit. 

[TheGoalNet]

On 4/30/2017 at 9:00 AM, bunnyman666 said:

When I call people out in a forum, I use my full name. My goal is NOT to put people out of business. My goal is for them to remember that people are watching. I am not most likely the ONLY one out there who feels that they are not being treated well. Also- when they think they can ignore emails, calling them out makes others aware. The goal is NOT to put them out of business, but instead to be made whole. I would rather never have to do that. If they do right, this can actually end up being a good thing. If the company being called out acts childish, then everybody knows to stay away. 

If calling people out ends up as a learning experience for the offending business owner, then all can benefit. 

As long as nothing turns into a personal attack, I am all for sharing the good experiences, the bad, and letting the stories be heard. If someone is constantly treating customers poorly, we should all know about it and use that info in deciding to purchase from them or not. 

If only 1 individual is complaining, it should be clear to anyone reading the post that this is an isolated incident. 

Again, let's keep is classy when we share bad stories

... but we need honesty. 

[TheGoalNet]

On 4/28/2017 at 8:11 AM, jayluv54 said:

Its a niche market and people think they can profit off of niche markets.  Personally I've never bought anything from the smaller companies in this industry with the exception of Michel @ Protechsport because I think its all overpriced.  There's nothing out there revolutionary or innovative that most of these guys do and I wont pay a 300%+ markup for things that I can easily source and make myself in under 20 min and at a fraction of the cost.

I am still waiting for @bunnyman666 to buy a commercial sewing machine and dive into this himself. He has a passion for it and loves to tinker with gear. . . 

[bunnyman666]

11 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

I am still waiting for @bunnyman666 to buy a commercial sewing machine and dive into this himself. He has a passion for it and loves to tinker with gear. . . 

And it may happen. 

I was about one week late when a cobbler closed up shoppe and she had her dad's stuff! 

[bunnyman666]

26 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

As long as nothing turns into a personal attack, I am all for sharing the good experiences, the bad, and letting the stories be heard. If someone is constantly treating customers poorly, we should all know about it and use that info in deciding to purchase from them or not. 

If only 1 individual is complaining, it should be clear to anyone reading the post that this is an isolated incident. 

Again, let's keep is classy when we share bad stories

... but we need honesty. 

The only thing personal for me in an attack is that it affected me personally. And if  it causes the offender (nobody in particular) to get their act together, even better. 

[jayluv54]

Can add OTNY to my list of companies I'll never buy from again.  Placed an order for a cage and chin cup.  Never received an order confirmation or shipping notification.  Called 2 days later to confirm they even got the order since I was charged for it and I got major attitude by the guy who answered the phone.  Told me it will ship sometime during the week.  Awesome customer service...  Mask and chin cup show up a week later and the chin cup is missing the strap.  3 emails with no response, phone number being picked up by fax machine...WTF 

[cwarnar]

5 hours ago, jayluv54 said:

Can add OTNY to my list of companies I'll never buy from again.  Placed an order for a cage and chin cup.  Never received an order confirmation or shipping notification.  Called 2 days later to confirm they even got the order since I was charged for it and I got major attitude by the guy who answered the phone.  Told me it will ship sometime during the week.  Awesome customer service...  Mask and chin cup show up a week later and the chin cup is missing the strap.  3 emails with no response, phone number being picked up by fax machine...WTF 

Go thru Dennis for Otny stuff: http://goalieparts.com/