Torsional Flex

[#16]

I am thinking of buying a set of X900's or possibly Gnetik's if i can find a good deal, and I know the Vapor line is a very stiff pad, and the Gnetik can be made to have lots of torsional flex so I was just wondering what the advantage to torsional flex is. 

[Chenner29]

Just curious, and I'm not asking this to be a jerk.

If you don't know what the advantage of torsional flex to a pad is, why would you want a pad with it?

[#16]

thats my problem im in reactors right now and i'm pretty sure they have lots of torsional flex so i'm just wondering what i will feel differently. sorry i didnt use the best wording

[TheGoalNet]

4 minutes ago, Chenner29 said:

Just curious, and I'm not asking this to be a jerk.

If you don't know what the advantage of torsional flex to a pad is, why would you want a pad with it?

I remember having that feeling going from RBK P1 to GNetik 1. Why do I need a more flexible pad and what is the trade off of getting them? I remember getting like good feedback on GSBB. After about 2 years, I sorta got it...

@#16 Torsional flex will give the overall pad a softer feel. It also allows your pad to move when you're in the butterfly. IE, the pad move with you more in and out of a RVH or butterfly slide.

The downside of torsional flex is that the pads may not seal as well as a stiff pad and probably won't hold their shape as well after a couple seasons. Stiffer is is better if you can handle it and plant to keep your gear for a long time.

[#16]

Lets say i were to take 2s's for example and strap them really, really tight would i get close to the same feeling?

[coopaloop1234]

7 minutes ago, #16 said:

Lets say i were to take 2s's for example and strap them really, really tight would i get close to the same feeling?

Not even close. The Supreme and Vapour lines Bauer is now putting out are some of the stiffest pads available.

If you want torsional flex, go velocity, Brians Heritage or Genetik, CCM Eflex, or lastly the R/GT line from Warrior.

[cwarnar]

21 minutes ago, #16 said:

Lets say i were to take 2s's for example and strap them really, really tight would i get close to the same feeling?

2S is likely the stiffest pad on the market today... Like strapping wood planks to your legs. The tightness of the strapping won't change the pad core.  

As @coopaloop1234 said there's tons of lines for a softer pad. 

[seagoal]

If you want to see torsional flex in action, here is the reigning king (I hope you like that) of it.  You can see how squishy his pads are and there's almost no straight lines on the edges of his pads, especially in the boot section.

[TheGoalNet]

28 minutes ago, seagoal said:

If you want to see torsional flex in action, here is the reigning king (I hope you like that) of it.  You can see how squishy his pads are and there's almost no straight lines on the edges of his pads, especially in the boot section.

Quick shows the negative side of torsional flex. No pads on the market have this much. He is wearing a V4 with a stuffed boot, but it's a great example.

@Mroy31 and I both modded 1S pads to make the elastic strapping a tight as possible. Because it's elastic, it gives and rotates. It's just a very stiff feel, but amazing if you like that

[Max27]

6 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

Quick shows the negative side of torsional flex. No pads on the market have this much. He is wearing a V4 with a stuffed boot, but it's a great example.

Isnt the whole pad stuffed, not just the boot?

[seagoal]

30 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

Quick shows the negative side of torsional flex. No pads on the market have this much. He is wearing a V4 with a stuffed boot, but it's a great example.

@Mroy31 and I both modded 1S pads to make the elastic strapping a tight as possible. Because it's elastic, it gives and rotates. It's just a very stiff feel, but amazing if you like that

What's the negative,  exactly?

Is it that there's less surface of the pad facing forward? We're talking millimeters,  if so.

Durability?

Here's a good contrast on boot flex in roughly the same position. 

[TheGoalNet]

12 minutes ago, seagoal said:

What's the negative,  exactly?

Is it that there's less surface of the pad facing forward? We're talking millimeters,  if so.

Durability?

It doesn't seal.

Compare this pic to Quick

[seagoal]

2 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

It doesn't seal.

Compare this pic to Quick

I see.

So it's just about the likelihood of a puck slipping underneath.

[Matt35]

I saw a goal scored on Quick a couple years ago, where he was already in the butterfly with the 5 hole sealed, and the puck hit dead centre where the pads met, and both pads folded in and the puck went straight thru his five hole. Definitely a disadvantage of super soft pads. 

[Max27]

1 hour ago, seagoal said:

What's the negative,  exactly?

Is it that there's less surface of the pad facing forward? We're talking millimeters,  if so.

Durability?

Like @TheGoalNet said abt seal but also you lose stability in the butterfly bc of how uneven the pad is, and the pad will shrink bc its not a solid core

[seagoal]

20 minutes ago, Matt35 said:

I saw a goal scored on Quick a couple years ago, where he was already in the butterfly with the 5 hole sealed, and the puck hit dead centre where the pads met, and both pads folded in and the puck went straight thru his five hole. Definitely a disadvantage of super soft pads. 

Yeah, I've seen those goals on him.  I watch LA a lot.

5 minutes ago, Max27 said:

Like @TheGoalNet said abt seal but also you lose stability in the butterfly bc of how uneven the pad is, and the pad will shrink bc its not a solid core

I get the seal part, as that affects stopping puck.  

But the stability part I'm not sure about.  If you mean rigidity when upright in the butterfly, I think that would only be a disadvantage for a goalie who needs or requires stability.  Quick obviously does not, so it's not a disadvantage for him. That stability itself does not stop pucks.

Shrinkage is totally a negative for goalies like us, for sure, but not for pros.  They don't keep pads long enough for that to matter.

[Max27]

3 minutes ago, seagoal said:

Yeah, I've seen those goals on him.  I watch LA a lot.

I get the seal part, as that affects stopping puck.  

But the stability part I'm not sure about.  If you mean rigidity when upright in the butterfly, I think that would only be a disadvantage for a goalie who needs or requires stability.  Quick obviously does not, so it's not a disadvantage for him. That stability itself does not stop pucks.

Shrinkage is totally a negative for goalies like us, for sure, but not for pros.  They don't keep pads long enough for that to matter.

Yeah i can see him not needing it but hes had injuries and it definetley is from the ridiculously thin knee stacks in his pads and i think he should switch to a solid core pad, or at least a thicker knee block

and while they get gear whenever they want i dont think that NHLers want to keep having to get new pads, break them in, get a good 6 weeks out of them and then get new ones, its a pain in the ass, Holtbys still using the same pads he used in the SCF last year i think, i saw a thing where he said he uses them from a certain time period and starts the season w the same set he finished the previous one with

[seagoal]

5 minutes ago, Max27 said:

Yeah i can see him not needing it but hes had injuries and it definetley is from the ridiculously thin knee stacks in his pads and i think he should switch to a solid core pad, or at least a thicker knee block

and while they get gear whenever they want i dont think that NHLers want to keep having to get new pads, break them in, get a good 6 weeks out of them and then get new ones, its a pain in the ass, Holtbys still using the same pads he used in the SCF last year i think, i saw a thing where he said he uses them from a certain time period and starts the season w the same set he finished the previous one with

I'm pretty sure Quick breaks in his pads by running over them with his truck.  Takes 10 seconds and he is done.  There's got to be video somewhere

[TheGoalNet]

55 minutes ago, seagoal said:

Yeah, I've seen those goals on him.  I watch LA a lot.

I get the seal part, as that affects stopping puck.  

But the stability part I'm not sure about.  If you mean rigidity when upright in the butterfly, I think that would only be a disadvantage for a goalie who needs or requires stability.  Quick obviously does not, so it's not a disadvantage for him. That stability itself does not stop pucks.

Shrinkage is totally a negative for goalies like us, for sure, but not for pros.  They don't keep pads long enough for that to matter.

Think about the energy transfer between a stiff pad and a soft one.

It's like mid 9000s Bauer 4000s goalie skate vs NXG. You will loose energy because the boot flexes

/

And your point about seeing these goals squeak in on Quick are exactly why the Premier line beat the Velocity line among pro goalies when they were both new. CCM pads are the most stable and pucks just are not squeaking under them

To be clear, this is NOT ruining anyone's beer league career... but it's why companies offer 1 stiff pad and 1 soft pad. There's arguments and preferences around both. However, the overall trend is stiffer. Vaughn has finally caved and gone that way

[kyledjean]

On 1/25/2019 at 7:58 PM, TheGoalNet said:

Think about the energy transfer between a stiff pad and a soft one.

It's like mid 9000s Bauer 4000s goalie skate vs NXG. You will loose energy because the boot flexes

/

And your point about seeing these goals squeak in on Quick are exactly why the Premier line beat the Velocity line among pro goalies when they were both new. CCM pads are the most stable and pucks just are not squeaking under them

To be clear, this is NOT ruining anyone's beer league career... but it's why companies offer 1 stiff pad and 1 soft pad. There's arguments and preferences around both. However, the overall trend is stiffer. Vaughn has finally caved and gone that way

The Vaughn Epics back on 05 were their first real stiff pads by vaughn. I still use mine currently. and after all my reading and listening to people now, and going from mckenney superlight (super soft pad)  to vaughn Epics with this knowledge I don't think I personally would ever go back to a hybrid/soft pad. which is why I would mostlikely go with the Warrior g4 line.

[keeperton]

On 1/25/2019 at 4:02 PM, seagoal said:

Yeah, I've seen those goals on him.  I watch LA a lot.

I get the seal part, as that affects stopping puck.  

But the stability part I'm not sure about.  If you mean rigidity when upright in the butterfly, I think that would only be a disadvantage for a goalie who needs or requires stability.  Quick obviously does not, so it's not a disadvantage for him. That stability itself does not stop pucks.

Shrinkage is totally a negative for goalies like us, for sure, but not for pros.  They don't keep pads long enough for that to matter.

With the stability bit, it's more along the lines of how one approaches certain movements and scrambling. My Gn3tiks are more stable than any pad I've owned, but definitely less stable than some pads I've tried just in terms of they seal when I go down. While it's totally on me that I lean back a little too much in my butterfly, if they pads had less torsional flex they would be less likely to over or under rotate as I sometimes have happen. Not a huge deal, but it's definitely had me let a few squeakers in and my next set of pads will have a stiffer thigh and more solid in-set. Stay tuned in August for more...

On 5/29/2019 at 9:54 AM, kyledjean said:

The Vaughn Epics back on 05 were their first real stiff pads by vaughn. I still use mine currently. and after all my reading and listening to people now, and going from mckenney superlight (super soft pad)  to vaughn Epics with this knowledge I don't think I personally would ever go back to a hybrid/soft pad. which is why I would mostlikely go with the Warrior g4 line.

Oh man, the original Epics? Those things were absolute tanks. Super stiff, heavy, and so much strapping around that gigantic calf lift. I play with a guy that still uses an Epic glove and that thing is a pancake and a half.

[Kirk3190]

On 1/25/2019 at 4:16 PM, TheGoalNet said:

I remember having that feeling going from RBK P1 to GNetik 1. Why do I need a more flexible pad and what is the trade off of getting them? I remember getting like good feedback on GSBB. After about 2 years, I sorta got it...

@#16 Torsional flex will give the overall pad a softer feel. It also allows your pad to move when you're in the butterfly. IE, the pad move with you more in and out of a RVH or butterfly slide.

The downside of torsional flex is that the pads may not seal as well as a stiff pad and probably won't hold their shape as well after a couple seasons. Stiffer is is better if you can handle it and plant to keep your gear for a long time.

The theory of torsional flexing pads not sealing the ice well is true if torsion is achieved ONLY through soft foams.  We knew this when we originated our R/GT series & did not want to accept poor thigh rise seal as a tradeoff for achieving torsional flex.  So, instead of thinking with foams, Pete journeyed into redesigning the internal core breaks.  Most hybrid goalies whether they realize it or not want/desire torsional flex solely from the knee down.  This lead us to creating a pad that worked independently below the knee, from above the knee.  The end result, a pad that has torsional flex, great connected feel in your shin and ankle area and no negative thigh rise seal concerns.  This is accomplished with the same stiff foams as the counterpart G# series so no super soft foams that breakdown & give out soft/risky rebounds.  

[kyledjean]

On 6/14/2019 at 12:21 AM, keeperton said:

With the stability bit, it's more along the lines of how one approaches certain movements and scrambling. My Gn3tiks are more stable than any pad I've owned, but definitely less stable than some pads I've tried just in terms of they seal when I go down. While it's totally on me that I lean back a little too much in my butterfly, if they pads had less torsional flex they would be less likely to over or under rotate as I sometimes have happen. Not a huge deal, but it's definitely had me let a few squeakers in and my next set of pads will have a stiffer thigh and more solid in-set. Stay tuned in August for more...

Oh man, the original Epics? Those things were absolute tanks. Super stiff, heavy, and so much strapping around that gigantic calf lift. I play with a guy that still uses an Epic glove and that thing is a pancake and a half.

They were a lot lighter than my McKenney pads and soak up 90% less water as well. I am still currently wearing gen 1 epics and glove and blocker. Just trying to find something new now that is comparable. I loved the epics, the glove is amazing. Mine completely closes like butter. You can rob people left and right with that thing. I would love to continue with the epics, they are just sooooo heavy compared to whats out today. In my pic, those are the epics I have from I think the summer of 05.

[keeperton]

7 hours ago, kyledjean said:

They were a lot lighter than my McKenney pads and soak up 90% less water as well. I am still currently wearing gen 1 epics and glove and blocker. Just trying to find something new now that is comparable. I loved the epics, the glove is amazing. Mine completely closes like butter. You can rob people left and right with that thing. I would love to continue with the epics, they are just sooooo heavy compared to whats out today. In my pic, those are the epics I have from I think the summer of 05.

Don't get me wrong, I really liked them back in the day. I just remember thinking, "these are some hefty dudes!" when I finally got to touch them. His glove also robs people, but that's because it's huge. Closes great, opens wide.