Brakes are Important Too

[ThatCarGuy]

My dad recently brought this up and since then I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. Modern pads slide pretty quickly/easily, no? What happens when you're about to overshoot your butterfly slide but can't risk opening 5-hole? My point is, pretty soon pads will slide too quickly and nobody will be able to slow down without risking 5-hole. Time for math. Lets say your Jenpro Pads slide at a certain rate. Now let's say you push with the same effort in your CORTech/Primo/AirSlide/QuickSlide pads. I have no life so here's a graph:

It's simple and gets my point across. Also slightly exaggerated.

By pushing with the same effort you will likely overshoot your planned stopping point. Now lets see what happens when push with just the right amount of effort to reach the stopping point in CORTech/Primo/AirSlide/QuickSlide pads.

While you would end exactly on the stopping point, it would take much longer to get to it because you have to account for deceleration. Once again, to stop quicker you would need to lift up your foot, opening up 5-hole, and potentially resulting in a goal.

How do we solve this issue when it arrives? Well I'm not sure but that's where y'all come in. So far all I've got is a super abrasive piece of plastic attach to the pad on the inside of the boot (will attempt to make a drawing later).

What are your ideas?

Thank you,

-T

[coopaloop1234]

If you get there a lot faster, then you're going to be able to afford the extra second to stop with your edges.

You should be on your feet as much as you can anyways for the same reasons. It's faster. You only want to lead into a save with a backside recovery if the timing is too tight to effectively get up and reset again. At that point, speed down low plays into our favour.

I think you're over analyzing a non issue.

[Chenner29]

1 minute ago, coopaloop1234 said:

If you get there a lot faster, then you're going to be able to afford the extra second to stop with your edges.

You should be on your feet as much as you can anyways for the same reasons. It's faster. You only want to lead into a save with a backside recovery if the timing is too tight to effectively get up and reset again. At that point, speed down low plays into our favour.

I think you're over analyzing a non issue.

This is it. 

A lateral release is beat utilized on a jamming or blocking play. 

That being said, nylon on knee wings is a popular braking mechanism. Luongo was using these for a while. 

[maxtm30]

Your velocity is higher with newer materials with the same effort (FORCE) basically you do not need the push as strong as you needed with jenpro, so you will need less force to balance the momentum, so technically, you still need to create the decelerations, but you mostly aim for the posts when you slide, so there is your brake man!

[Colander]

OK – first off, your graphs make no sense: I think the first one is force vs distance? In that case it the graph isn’t really plotted in a manner to allow a proper comparison. Same could be said for the second which, by your comments below, appears to be distance vs. time (hint – always label both axes of a graph).

Second: the push effort vs. distance is never going to be constant for any pad because the ice changes so much, even if you get cleaning between every period (which I’m pretty sure most people on this forum don’t). At the beginning of warmup, I can slide from one post well out of the crease – with that same push after 90 minutes of play I’m lucky to get to the other post. Most goalies know this and compensate automatically.

Third as I think others have alluded to, a large push should be used in a panic situation when you are reaching, a good example being on a 2:1 where a wide cross-ice pass is converted into a one-timer. In that case you are probably trying to get an extremity (toe or boot) on the puck, so 5-hole isn’t that much a consideration.

Fourth and most importantly – the 5-hole is why God made goalie sticks

[SaveByRichter35]

lol

[ThatCarGuy]

I tried. Oh well. Note to self: Don't start new threads when tired.

[insertnamehere]

38 minutes ago, Colander said:

Fourth and most importantly – the 5-hole is why God made goalie sticks

This is what I came here to say.

[SaveByRichter35]

11 minutes ago, ThatCarGuy said:

I tried. Oh well. Note to self: Don't start new threads when tired.

Pay more attention to your classes.

[Mroy31]

Brakes are important, but it's not a matter of sacrificing coverage. Like others said, get to a good position to make the save, be in control. 

[BadAngle41]

@ThatCarGuy... valid thought. And I would pose to some that this does somewhat apply to Beer League...

When you're used to playing at a good pace and see good passers and shooters you correctly select a butterfly slide. Similar situation happens in a lower league (where the odd strange and curious happen constantly) and your reaction could be to do the same because the pass was decent. But in this case the shooter isn't as skilled... can't handle the puck well... and instead of one timing... he corrals it and holds on (because he inexplicably has time and space) and you end up over sliding. 

Of course Lateral Release is a better option in the lower league... but you will also get the random one timer... so you have to play honest. My point is these situations exist. It existed before sliding surfaces became more advanced... and will continue you as they get even better. At the end of the day the answer is technique. Using your edges... good depth... active hands... battling etc. We can't rely on a pad to be built to do everything for us.

[ThatCarGuy]

1 hour ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

Pay more attention to your classes.

But I already have +90% in all my classes. 105% in Algebra 2 actually (I finish all the classwork and homework and extra credit because I have nothing else).

Maybe I'll just go silent the rest of the day and look at car forums instead...

[Chester]

34 minutes ago, BadAngle41 said:

@ThatCarGuy... valid thought. And I would pose to some that this does somewhat apply to Beer League...

When you're used to playing at a good pace and see good passers and shooters you correctly select a butterfly slide. Similar situation happens in a lower league (where the odd strange and curious happen constantly) and your reaction could be to do the same because the pass was decent. But in this case the shooter isn't as skilled... can't handle the puck well... and instead of one timing... he corrals it and holds on (because he inexplicably has time and space) and you end up over sliding. 

Of course Lateral Release is a better option in the lower league... but you will also get the random one timer... so you have to play honest. My point is these situations exist. It existed before sliding surfaces became more advanced... and will continue you as they get even better. At the end of the day the answer is technique. Using your edges... good depth... active hands... battling etc. We can't rely on a pad to be built to do everything for us.

Is it me, or is his 7-hole gap fairly large. Look at that gap. Like his stick paddle length is too long. Toe of the stick up in the air also. 

[mr_shifty1982]

Not sure how many of you watch Andersen play but his a magician at slides, break and get up.  He does it like it's nothing.

[Colander]

1 hour ago, Chester said:

Is it me, or is his 7-hole gap fairly large. Look at that gap. Like his stick paddle length is too long. Toe of the stick up in the air also. 

LOL - that looks just like me - giant 7 hole (which people take advantage of all the time) and something of a jiggy-fly...

The thin is, the video almost speaks to the issue - the slide he puts in at first seems to go on endlessly, but he's rigid as a post. In reality, we tend not to be so rigid and lean or push a pad minutely in a direction that helps us tailor the slide.

The other point is, @Chester mentioned, at lower level play the puck carried may end up holding on to the puck longer. That's not just lower level - I am seeing upper level guys* that say take a pass on a 2:1 and don't blindly one-time it, but wait for me to come across hoping I'm sliding so they can pull it behind my slide and dump it in the yawning cage, or at least get me to drop so they can change where they shoot.

*Actually  it's some higher level players combined with pylon-grade D

[BadAngle41]

1 hour ago, Chester said:

Is it me, or is his 7-hole gap fairly large. Look at that gap. Like his stick paddle length is too long. Toe of the stick up in the air also. 

Lots of gaps are pretty large... but the butterfly slide vs. lateral release is pretty clear. 

[TheGoalNet]

@ThatCarGuy - Love the enthusiasm of thinking differently and trying to get scientific with the graphs.

But...

I do agree with most of the other responses that good edge work and an evolution of technique will act as the brake. There's some other things to consider above too. Not all materials play the same.

Opti-Slide is grease lightning. It doesn't really care what's going on, it just goes fast.

Speed Skin by the other hand lends more control and slides more like Jenpro on steroids. Small push yields a small slide and big push creates a big slide. So for goalies who want big slides but worry about over slides, they should look for Speed Skin.

[Max27]

3 hours ago, ThatCarGuy said:

But I already have +90% in all my classes. 105% in Algebra 2 actually (I finish all the classwork and homework and extra credit because I have nothing else).

Maybe I'll just go silent the rest of the day and look at car forums instead...

jesus youre a freshman taking Algebra 2? Im a sophmore taking Regents Geometry and im god awful at it. Im going to boces (its like trades school) to learn how to be a barber

[ThatCarGuy]

12 minutes ago, Max27 said:

jesus youre a freshman taking Algebra 2?

It was sort of weird technicality. I was the last year the offered GT science for in my district. I did "Physics" in 8th grade, I'm doing Chemistry now which requires Algebra 2 and will be doing biology and geometry next year. My district is broken.

[Max27]

20 minutes ago, ThatCarGuy said:

It was sort of weird technicality. I was the last year the offered GT science for in my district. I did "Physics" in 8th grade, I'm doing Chemistry now which requires Algebra 2 and will be doing biology and geometry next year. My district is broken.

yeah that is pretty weird, maybe i just suck at school haha