Looks like Bettman got his wish; albeit differently...

[bunnyman666]

Scoring is up this season. The NHL brass got its wish to be more exciting for the fans. Whilst I grew up watching low-scoring sports and really don’t understand the appeal of the two higher scoring sports (American Football and Basketball), people like to see goals and lots of them. The growth of the sport is important for us to have places to play.

Of course the reduction of both the blocking surface of the pants in 2017-2018 and subsequently the chest protector was supposed to be the magic bullet for increased scoring. Early in the season, I saw a bit of this with goalies complaining bitterly. I had (wrongly) predicted a change in tending style, and possibly a few goalies are playing on the edge or outside of the paint, but overall- it is still mostly butterfly on the goal line all day and night. 

Goals are not being scored under arms, between the pipe and the body or from bigger five holes. What have I noticed? Built-in one-timer trainers on the goalie’s legpads. 

As a recent example: In the Second Round clinching Blues versus Jets game, Binnington’s pads hotly deflected the puck right to the shooter! Gave it right back! And the shooter ROOFED IT!!! That was a thrilling goal for the masses! Of course it wasn’t enough to get the Jets back into the game...

I have seen this quite a bit this season. This post is nothing more than an observation, nor is it a “hot rebounds versus dead rebounds” argument. I’m not bashing Bettman, either; he deserves his due as the game has grown under his stewardship of the league. I’m actually fine with the developments in the current game, and hope the powers that be are satiated and they won’t continue shrinking equipment to the detriment of safety.

What do you think? 

[Jonathon v]

13 minutes ago, bunnyman666 said:

Scoring is up this season. The NHL brass got its wish to be more exciting for the fans. Whilst I grew up watching low-scoring sports and really don’t understand the appeal of the two higher scoring sports (American Football and Basketball), people like to see goals and lots of them. The growth of the sport is important for us to have places to play.

Of course the reduction of both the blocking surface of the pants in 2017-2018 and subsequently the chest protector was supposed to be the magic bullet for increased scoring. Early in the season, I saw a bit of this with goalies complaining bitterly. I had (wrongly) predicted a change in tending style, and possibly a few goalies are playing on the edge or outside of the paint, but overall- it is still mostly butterfly on the goal line all day and night. 

Goals are not being scored under arms, between the pipe and the body or from bigger five holes. What have I noticed? Built-in one-timer trainers on the goalie’s legpads. 

As a recent example: In the Second Round clinching Blues versus Jets game, Binnington’s pads hotly deflected the puck right to the shooter! Gave it right back! And the shooter ROOFED IT!!! That was a thrilling goal for the masses! Of course it wasn’t enough to get the Jets back into the game...

I have seen this quite a bit this season. This post is nothing more than an observation, nor is it a “hot rebounds versus dead rebounds” argument. I’m not bashing Bettman, either; he deserves his due as the game has grown under his stewardship of the league. I’m actually fine with the developments in the current game, and hope the powers that be are satiated and they won’t continue shrinking equipment to the detriment of safety.

What do you think? 

Only thing I think they should be able to do that is safe is shrink thigh rises, which is part of the leg pads shrinkage that already happened. Its ridicolous that they had 36+3 when they are only say 6 foot 5. I think shrinking the thigh rise helped goalies however, becoming more mobile, and the only thing they are giving up more room in is 5 hole and possibly low corners if the pads dont cover the full lower part of the net Then again, goalies are incredible down low, rarely getting beat there anyways

[bunnyman666]

5 minutes ago, Jonathon v said:

Only thing I think they should be able to do that is safe is shrink thigh rises, which is part of the leg pads shrinkage that already happened. Its ridicolous that they had 36+3 when they are only say 6 foot 5. I think shrinking the thigh rise helped goalies however, becoming more mobile, and the only thing they are giving up more room in is 5 hole and possibly low corners if the pads dont cover the full lower part of the net Then again, goalies are incredible down low, rarely getting beat there anyways

I do believe the thigh rise has been shrunk. I know there is a maximum pad height, as well. If the pads get shrunk to 10”, I think it could actually be to the goalie’s benefit. Of course the Lundy strap negates some of the loss of thigh rise; I could see that being scrutinised. I do believe that the tinkering isn’t over, but I would think that shrinking gloves may be off the table for now. 

The hot rebounds were originally designed to get rebounds past the blue line. Of course astute players have figured that the hot rebounds can be to their advantage. Of course you need good hand-eye coordination and timing (as well as guess where the puck will be going).  

I am not saying that all of the recent scoring is a direct result of super hot rebounds from pads, but it is certainly a factor. 

Thanks for your contribution, @Jonathon v

[Mroy31]

I hope that the league is satisfied with the overall numbers at this point.  I don't think we need to keep seeing sweeping changes.  I'm with you on the interest of good games that don't need a ton of goals as well.  I get that to new fans, a 1-0 or 2-1 game may feel boring, but hopefully there are enough higher scoring games throughout the league to keep their interest at this point.  I know they're different markets and histories, but Soccer/Football is the most popular sport in the world (although their goalies wear WAY less equipment, so I guess I don't want to start them down that road).

It also feels counter intuitive that they want to give teams all the chances in the world to call back offside goals and goalie interference calls.  I'm all for getting things right, but I don't think either of those were as rampant of an issue as to warrant challenges.  The challenge system is also broken, makes no sense that you can only challenge if you keep getting them right for one (goalie interference, see Jets vs. Blues) and the other you can keep challenging and risk a 2 minute penalty.  

There also needs to be a pretty clear definition of goalie interference.  I've been a goalie for 22 years, and I know my view is skewed by what passes for interference in beer league and also being a Leafs fan for one recent call, but I don't know what's what anymore and it seems like neither do any pros and former pros. 

I see what happens to Rask and think, so what? If I bite on a shot fake that goes across the ice and there happens to be a guy right in front of me providing a screen, that's not his fault that I read the play and reacted in a way that put me out of position.  Then I see the play where Hellebuyck gets his glove caught on the attackers stick, and I'm thinking, unless that player pulls up/away and actually moves the goalie, it just looks like the goalie gives up and hopes for a call (like Rask and his skate blade).

Even as I read what I type, I'm back and forth and can't even really argue one way or the other why I think it should be called a certain way.  Just too much grey area.  Figure out a proper definition (I'm not saying that's easy either), and get rid of the coaches challenges for now and let the refs do their jobs (well or not, that's for the league to police and get better refs).

That got a little off topic.  TLDR: Scoring is fine now, goalies look normal, why put in opportunities for coaches to reduce scoring on plays you haven't well defined, all when you're trying to keep scoring up?

[bunnyman666]

10 minutes ago, Mroy31 said:

I hope that the league is satisfied with the overall numbers at this point.  I don't think we need to keep seeing sweeping changes.  I'm with you on the interest of good games that don't need a ton of goals as well.  I get that to new fans, a 1-0 or 2-1 game may feel boring, but hopefully there are enough higher scoring games throughout the league to keep their interest at this point.  I know they're different markets and histories, but Soccer/Football is the most popular sport in the world (although their goalies wear WAY less equipment, so I guess I don't want to start them down that road).

It also feels counter intuitive that they want to give teams all the chances in the world to call back offside goals and goalie interference calls.  I'm all for getting things right, but I don't think either of those were as rampant of an issue as to warrant challenges.  The challenge system is also broken, makes no sense that you can only challenge if you keep getting them right for one (goalie interference, see Jets vs. Blues) and the other you can keep challenging and risk a 2 minute penalty.  

There also needs to be a pretty clear definition of goalie interference.  I've been a goalie for 22 years, and I know my view is skewed by what passes for interference in beer league and also being a Leafs fan for one recent call, but I don't know what's what anymore and it seems like neither do any pros and former pros. 

I see what happens to Rask and think, so what? If I bite on a shot fake that goes across the ice and there happens to be a guy right in front of me providing a screen, that's not his fault that I read the play and reacted in a way that put me out of position.  Then I see the play where Hellebuyck gets his glove caught on the attackers stick, and I'm thinking, unless that player pulls up/away and actually moves the goalie, it just looks like the goalie gives up and hopes for a call (like Rask and his skate blade).

Even as I read what I type, I'm back and forth and can't even really argue one way or the other why I think it should be called a certain way.  Just too much grey area.  Figure out a proper definition (I'm not saying that's easy either), and get rid of the coaches challenges for now and let the refs do their jobs (well or not, that's for the league to police and get better refs).

That got a little off topic.  TLDR: Scoring is fine now, goalies look normal, why put in opportunities for coaches to reduce scoring on plays you haven't well defined, all when you're trying to keep scoring up?

Great points! 

And all of those points are relevant.

Basketball doesn’t allow for coaches’ challenges; I think coaches’ challenges slow down the game unnecessarily. 

Go back to making the paint a no zone and automatic face off. That would slow the game slightly, but would reduce the number of goalie interference call backs which slow it down and reverse goals in a few cases. 

Thanks for your input!

[CJ Boiss]

14 minutes ago, bunnyman666 said:

Great points! 

And all of those points are relevant.

Basketball doesn’t allow for coaches’ challenges; I think coaches’ challenges slow down the game unnecessarily. 

Go back to making the paint a no zone and automatic face off. That would slow the game slightly, but would reduce the number of goalie interference call backs which slow it down and reverse goals in a few cases. 

Thanks for your input!

If you make the paint a "no go zone", or simply whistle the play dead if the goalie is contacted, then players would stop parking themselves literal centimetres from the goalies. The game might slow for a little while, but after an adjustment period you'd simply see the players staying a little farther away from the crease, and things would pick up again.

[bunnyman666]

39 minutes ago, CJ Boiss said:

If you make the paint a "no go zone", or simply whistle the play dead if the goalie is contacted, then players would stop parking themselves literal centimetres from the goalies. The game might slow for a little while, but after an adjustment period you'd simply see the players staying a little farther away from the crease, and things would pick up again.

Exactly! The players would adjust. I don’t want to ban sticks from the paint, just players. And if a defender pushes a  forward into the crease, they would get 2 minutes for their efforts. 

Thanks for your contribution!

[Moose75]

5 hours ago, bunnyman666 said:

Scoring is up this season. The NHL brass got its wish to be more exciting for the fans.

It's ironic: the richest pool of young talent and absurd point totals (Kucherov and McDavid brining back 90's point totals), yet I have never been less interested in the games I have watched.

Here are my dumb gripes:

-Back to back games SUCK. And it's almost always a ratings darling team like the Bruins or Flyers that get the opponent on the end of one.

-Goaltending, or rather the "next wave", is a bunch of static robots. It makes watching the game a bit more predictable and less interesting. Every guy used to have his own methods, but all shared some commonalities. Now every guy shares the same method and players expose the weaknesses in greater numbers. There's maybe a handful of "next gen" goalies I enjoy watching and they are different from the norm (Vasy, Gibson being my favorites). I sound like an old fart now, but having guys that are interchangeable and play a game based on repetition and practice is not as fun, or inspiring as watching guys who are naturals that used practice to refine themselves. Almost anyone can learn goaltending techniques through repetition, but it's the instincts and willingness to adapt or die that truly make a living goalie, not some AI goalie.

-Defense looks...not good. Guys breakdancing around for shot blocks watching helplessly as some uncovered guy one-times it home, or guys (like the Rangers defense, basically) who are in the NHL because the 31st team made everything that much thinner.

-Play looks...dare I say sloppy? The game is so quick and talented it almost overrides itself with players trying to do too much, or players panicking and throwing the puck away. 

-Refereeing is so inconsistent it looks suspicious at times. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, but their egos and "not wanting to influence play" have hurt the game and the game's best players. Sometimes not making a call is just as obstructive as making a bad one. I don't know if some of these guys bet on games like MLB umpires do, but it sure looks like it sometimes. I was a ref for a minuscule amount of time. I know it's a tough, thankless job, but these guys manage the games so inconsistently, as I said.

-Playoff format sucks ass. 

-Goals that are snipes are better when they are a surprise, not almost guaranteed. I know RVH is under the spotlight, but man, every time I see a goalie sitting there and some guy gets the puck I know it's either in, or the ensuing rebound is.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying "old is better" here, it's not,  rather than saying the present has a lot of flaws that need to be addressed. I'd rather seen this kind of "meh" game than some brutish game of neanderthals playing the trap and goalies standing up on shots going through their legs.

TL;DR: Sorry I'm a curmudgeon who just can't enjoy anything, lol.

[bunnyman666]

5 minutes ago, Moose75 said:

It's ironic: the richest pool of young talent and absurd point totals (Kucherov and McDavid brining back 90's point totals), yet I have never been less interested in the games I have watched.

Here are my dumb gripes:

-Back to back games SUCK. And it's almost always a ratings darling team like the Bruins or Flyers that get the opponent who on the end of one.

-Goaltending, or rather the "next wave", is a bunch of static robots that are a dime a dozen. While there's nothing wrong with that, it does make watching a bit more predictable and less interesting. Every guy used to have his own methods, but all shared some commonalities. Now every guy shares the same method and players expose the weaknesses in greater numbers. There's maybe a handful of "next gen" goalies I enjoy watching and they are different from the norm (Vasy, Gibson being my favorites). I sound like an old fart now, but having guys that are interchangeable and play a game based on repetition and practice is not as fun, or inspiring as watching guys who are naturals that used practice to refine themselves. Almost anyone can learn goaltending techniques through repetition, but it's the instincts and willingness to adapt or die that truly make a living goalie, not some AI goalie.

-Defense looks...not good. Guys breakdancing around for shot blocks watching helplessly as some uncovered guy one-times it home, or guys (like the Rangers defense, basically) who are in the NHL because the 31st team made everything that much thinner.

-Play looks...dare I say sloppy? The game is so quick and talented it almost overrides itself with players trying to do too much, or players panicking and throwing the puck away. 

-Refereeing is so inconsistent it looks suspicious at times. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, but their egos and "not wanting to influence play" have hurt the game and the game's best players. Sometimes not making a call is just as obstructive as making a bad one. I don't know if some of these guys bet on games like MLB umpires do, but it sure looks like it sometimes. I was a ref for a minuscule amount of time. I know it's a tough, thankless job, but these guys manage the games so inconsistently, as I said.

-Playoff format sucks ass. 

-Goals that are snipes are better when they are a surprise, not almost guaranteed. I know RVH is under the spotlight, but man, every time I see a goalie sitting there and some guy gets the puck I know it's either in, or the ensuing rebound is.

TL;DR: Sorry I'm a curmudgeon who just can't enjoy anything, lol.

I don’t even disagree with you; unfortunately this is the game we’re stuck watching. I am trying to embrace it as well as possible. In principle- I don’t disagree.

The one timer training tool goalie pad is what is part of what you speak of in RVH. It is what it is.

Unfortunately, the new game is not for us. But since we don’t have a WHA to watch instead, I am trying to embrace the new game. 

[coopaloop1234]

@Moose75 I've heard it repeated a few times all over the interwebs, but the comparison that NHL goalies are the equivalent to NFL kickers seems fairly spot on.

They're all essentially interchangeable and only a few really stand out.

[Colander]

2 hours ago, Moose75 said:

...-Goaltending, or rather the "next wave", is a bunch of static robots. It makes watching the game a bit more predictable and less interesting. Every guy used to have his own methods, but all shared some commonalities. Now every guy shares the same method and players expose the weaknesses in greater numbers. There's maybe a handful of "next gen" goalies I enjoy watching and they are different from the norm (Vasy, Gibson being my favorites). I sound like an old fart now, but having guys that are interchangeable and play a game based on repetition and practice is not as fun, or inspiring as watching guys who are naturals that used practice to refine themselves. Almost anyone can learn goaltending techniques through repetition, but it's the instincts and willingness to adapt or die that truly make a living goalie, not some AI goalie....

My 2 cents (overinflated of course)

First off, - geez @Moose75, why don’t you take your deer-fur and kapok-filled pads and find a “moldy old goalies” forum 

JK … I agree with you in that there seems to be a lot less “personality’ in goalie styles these days. But having said that, and having come from the deer-fur and kapok era, I see the efficiency in some of the techniques today. I think the issue is as you alluded to, there are a lot of literal and figurative “posers” out there doing it because some high caliber goalie does it, not because it is a viable option for their style of play/age/height/flexibility (of the last three I have an excess of the first and a dearth of the last two).

Scoring did seem to go up this year, I assumed because of the CA “slimming”. If that is truly the case, I have to wonder what the hell they were doing before to make such a difference.

The idea that we need to have a high score to generate interest is a mistake on people’s parts. I’ve seen plenty of 1:0 or 2:1 games that have been barn burners with end to end action – just because the puck didn’t go in the net doesn’t mean there wasn’t a lot of great play. When I watch something like soccer, (sorry, no offense to soccer fans, but) it is extremely boring because there is no action. Watching a bunch of guys kick a ball around the centre of a field ‘til it rolls out of play and then start again like a 90-minute neutral-zone trap with a couple of low percentage shots on goal is torture*. To me it’s along the same lines as watching two guys play catch for three hours…err… I mean baseball. Basketball is the opposite end of the spectrum. There are so many baskets, it’s really hard to get excited. Yeah I know there’s lots of great plays, but after you’ve seen a thousand slam dunks, they all start looking the same.

The crease violation rule seems to work well in the Olympics and IIHF (I think) so I think something like that could be instituted in the NHL. Ultimately, all I care about as a goalie is that I’m neither impeded in my attempt to make a save nor in my attempt to get to where I need to be to make a save. Outside of that, it’s all part of the game.

·        *Pet peeve alert: when they finally do score in soccer, some of the celebrations are right in line with that crap Carolina was pulling post game during the season. Someone please tell soccer players that when the goal is the size of the proverbial “side of a barn”, hitting it is not that miraculous.

[CJ Boiss]

54 minutes ago, Colander said:

The crease violation rule seems to work well in the Olympics and IIHF (I think) so I think something like that could be instituted in the NHL. Ultimately, all I care about as a goalie is that I’m neither impeded in my attempt to make a save nor in my attempt to get to where I need to be to make a save. Outside of that, it’s all part of the game.

I mean, I appreciate not having players falling into me, and hacking at my pads and gloves when I cover the puck on the ice. If crease violation rules and more strictly enforced goalie interference keeps guys farther away from me, I'm totally OK with that.

[Colander]

39 minutes ago, CJ Boiss said:

I mean, I appreciate not having players falling into me, and hacking at my pads and gloves when I cover the puck on the ice. If crease violation rules and more strictly enforced goalie interference keeps guys farther away from me, I'm totally OK with that.

Agreed: unfortunately though, I think this would only work at the major junior level and above. I don't think you'd get the quality of reffing required to support this type of rule in non-pro type leagues.For the groups I play with, it's never going to happen. When the play gets close I need an escort to get from one side of my crease to the other.

[CJ Boiss]

1 hour ago, Colander said:

Agreed: unfortunately though, I think this would only work at the major junior level and above. I don't think you'd get the quality of reffing required to support this type of rule in non-pro type leagues.For the groups I play with, it's never going to happen. When the play gets close I need an escort to get from one side of my crease to the other.

I mean, it's pretty damn easy to see when a player enters the crease. It's already something that the refs are looking for, so having them halt the play when it happens isn't asking that much.

Alternatively, change the rules so that goalies can punch and slash with impunity as long as we're in the crease. Try crashing my net now, ya pricks. XD

[bunnyman666]

17 hours ago, Colander said:

·        *Pet peeve alert: when they finally do score in soccer, some of the celebrations are right in line with that crap Carolina was pulling post game during the season. Someone please tell soccer players that when the goal is the size of the proverbial “side of a barn”, hitting it is not that miraculous.

The high scoring footbal game is coming upon us, as I am seeing and hearing more about 10 goal football games in youth football. 

Yes- “soccer” was actually slang for football association games in England; it’s the Yanks that took the term and ran with it.  

[WillyGrips13]

22 hours ago, Moose75 said:

Defense looks...not good. Guys breakdancing around for shot blocks watching helplessly as some uncovered guy one-times it home...

What, are you in my brain? Exactly my thoughts. 

[Moose75]

33 minutes ago, WillyGrips13 said:

What, are you in my brain? Exactly my thoughts. 

[WillyGrips13]

On 4/23/2019 at 2:24 PM, Moose75 said:

It's ironic: the richest pool of young talent and absurd point totals (Kucherov and McDavid brining back 90's point totals), yet I have never been less interested in the games I have watched.

Note the offensive hockey in the regular season didn’t translate too well to the playoffs. Maybe because no one hits anyone during the regular season anymore. And then suddenly during the playoffs everyone is hitting everyone else.

Here are my dumb gripes:

-Back to back games SUCK. And it's almost always a ratings darling team like the Bruins or Flyers that get the opponent on the end of one.

-Goaltending, or rather the "next wave", is a bunch of static robots. It makes watching the game a bit more predictable and less interesting. Every guy used to have his own methods, but all shared some commonalities. Now every guy shares the same method and players expose the weaknesses in greater numbers. There's maybe a handful of "next gen" goalies I enjoy watching and they are different from the norm (Vasy, Gibson being my favorites). I sound like an old fart now, but having guys that are interchangeable and play a game based on repetition and practice is not as fun, or inspiring as watching guys who are naturals that used practice to refine themselves. Almost anyone can learn goaltending techniques through repetition, but it's the instincts and willingness to adapt or die that truly make a living goalie, not some AI goalie.

Yes but goalies are interchangeable because they’re all so good due to training and knowledge. Plus anyone who makes it is big today. Also the true pros have all that and do know how to read the game.  

-Defense looks...not good. Guys breakdancing around for shot blocks watching helplessly as some uncovered guy one-times it home, or guys (like the Rangers defense, basically) who are in the NHL because the 31st team made everything that much thinner.

Yeah it’s like players are never taught to mark open men or take the body when a player dangles. It’s always puck, puck, puck and nothing else. Leads to a lot of stupid preventable goals.

-Play looks...dare I say sloppy? The game is so quick and talented it almost overrides itself with players trying to do too much, or players panicking and throwing the puck away.

Absolutely. Play is moving too fast for most players. They’re certainly not worse players than previous generations, the pace of play is just ungodly. Also no one ever wants to stop, ever. It’s endless rink turns and flybys. Everyone wants to keep their momentum so they never want to stop. However, many times pucks lay around in both the offensive and defensive zones that would be collected if a player simply stopped to retrieve it. It leads to more sloppiness.

-Refereeing is so inconsistent it looks suspicious at times. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, but their egos and "not wanting to influence play" have hurt the game and the game's best players. Sometimes not making a call is just as obstructive as making a bad one. I don't know if some of these guys bet on games like MLB umpires do, but it sure looks like it sometimes. I was a ref for a minuscule amount of time. I know it's a tough, thankless job, but these guys manage the games so inconsistently, as I said.

Yes and officiating is a problem in all sports. Likely because the speed of all sports has increased, technology has allowed all of us to see everything and the refs don’t have that luxury in real time, and perhaps most sports still use outdated officiating methods. Maybe technology will need to aid officiating in real time moving forward.

Ignore this break in the quote (I don’t know why it happened).

On 4/23/2019 at 2:24 PM, Moose75 said:

-Playoff format sucks ass. 

-Goals that are snipes are better when they are a surprise, not almost guaranteed. I know RVH is under the spotlight, but man, every time I see a goalie sitting there and some guy gets the puck I know it's either in, or the ensuing rebound is.

Yeah when I see Rask in the RVH on an icing dump in, I’m like c’mon man! But the goalies will eventually adjust and we’ll see fewer stinky RVH goals.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying "old is better" here, it's not,  rather than saying the present has a lot of flaws that need to be addressed. I'd rather seen this kind of "meh" game than some brutish game of neanderthals playing the trap and goalies standing up on shots going through their legs.

What?! Bring back the Hextalls of the world with all the flopping and diving with the occasional five hole goal from the blue line.

TL;DR: Sorry I'm a curmudgeon who just can't enjoy anything, lol.

Had to quote you again. So much good stuff here. My comments above. 

On 4/23/2019 at 4:29 PM, Colander said:

When I watch something like soccer, (sorry, no offense to soccer fans, but) it is extremely boring because there is no action. Watching a bunch of guys kick a ball around the centre of a field ‘til it rolls out of play and then start again like a 90-minute neutral-zone trap with a couple of low percentage shots on goal is torture*.

·        *Pet peeve alert: when they finally do score in soccer, some of the celebrations are right in line with that crap Carolina was pulling post game during the season. Someone please tell soccer players that when the goal is the size of the proverbial “side of a barn”, hitting it is not that miraculous.

Boo to you sir! God forbid the players have fun and connect with the fans. Love what the Hurricanes did. 

Also, I don’t expect hockey people to like soccer, but boring is not word that is often used to describe English Premier League soccer. It’s the fastest, most skilled and most physical brand of the sport. Check it out sometime. ️

On 4/24/2019 at 1:45 PM, Moose75 said:

Heh heh

[Colander]

@WillyGrips13 (Sorry couldn't quote the end of your comment so I had to cut and paste)

"Boo to you sir! God forbid the players have fun and connect with the fans. Love what the Hurricanes did."

Showboating by any other name

"Also, I don’t expect hockey people to like soccer, but boring is not word that is often used to describe English Premier League soccer. It’s the fastest, most skilled and most physical brand of the sport. Check it out sometime. ️"

I did and found a cure for my insomnia. If I wanted to see that much starting and stopping with long periods of inaction I would sit in traffic in the GTA.

[jeff da goalie]

On 4/23/2019 at 2:24 PM, Moose75 said:

-Goaltending, or rather the "next wave", is a bunch of static robots. It makes watching the game a bit more predictable and less interesting. Every guy used to have his own methods, but all shared some commonalities. Now every guy shares the same method and players expose the weaknesses in greater numbers. There's maybe a handful of "next gen" goalies I enjoy watching and they are different from the norm (Vasy, Gibson being my favorites). I sound like an old fart now, but having guys that are interchangeable and play a game based on repetition and practice is not as fun, or inspiring as watching guys who are naturals that used practice to refine themselves. Almost anyone can learn goaltending techniques through repetition, but it's the instincts and willingness to adapt or die that truly make a living goalie, not some AI goalie.

Do you watch any of the games in the Metro Division?  Holtby and Lundqvist couldn't be more different in terms of style.  Other than that they will both butterfly on low shots, they play completely differently.  I think that each goalie is different.  they may have similar tools, but they each have their own approach.  When I watch the Rangers or Capitals (my two teams) I can tell within a few shots who is in net, even without knowing or seeing their numbers.  So, I call BS old man curmudgeon on this.  (And I'm an old man curmudgeon myself).

[coopaloop1234]

26 minutes ago, jeff da goalie said:

Do you watch any of the games in the Metro Division?  Holtby and Lundqvist couldn't be more different in terms of style.  Other than that they will both butterfly on low shots, they play completely differently.  I think that each goalie is different.  they may have similar tools, but they each have their own approach.  When I watch the Rangers or Capitals (my two teams) I can tell within a few shots who is in net, even without knowing or seeing their numbers.  So, I call BS old man curmudgeon on this.  (And I'm an old man curmudgeon myself).

Holtby and Lundy are pretty high up there for unique goaltending styles in the NHL. Toss in Quick and you've essentially rounded out the Top 3.

Using those two as a counter-example isn't the strongest point.

[jeff da goalie]

22 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Holtby and Lundy are pretty high up there for unique goaltending styles in the NHL. Toss in Quick and you've essentially rounded out the Top 3.

Using those two as a counter-example isn't the strongest point.

Fine, throw in McIlhenney coming in relief for Mrazek playing crazy aggressive and nearly out of the crease.  Carey Price doesn't play anything like Holtby and Lundqvist.  Every goalie in the show has a unique way of playing.  Sure, they use a lot of the same tools, but the idea that all goalies are "drop and block" is nonsense.  

[Moose75]

On 4/29/2019 at 4:25 PM, jeff da goalie said:

Do you watch any of the games in the Metro Division?  Holtby and Lundqvist couldn't be more different in terms of style.  Other than that they will both butterfly on low shots, they play completely differently.  I think that each goalie is different.  they may have similar tools, but they each have their own approach.  When I watch the Rangers or Capitals (my two teams) I can tell within a few shots who is in net, even without knowing or seeing their numbers.  So, I call BS old man curmudgeon on this.  (And I'm an old man curmudgeon myself).

Yeah kind of a generalized, lazy assessment looking back at the rant I wrote in that moment. I can't be in all rinks at once like some 5th dimensional entity.

I'd like clarify a bit on my generalization though. I tend to mean guys entering the league, or likely 25 and under. Matt Murray is gonna be my example, for better or worse. When I watch him I feel like he's a generic goalie, like one would generate on a NHL game or something. Nothing about him seems to stand out like your examples (Holtby or a Price). Even his birth name feels generic lol. It's like a cookie cutter style that I tend to see a lot of in kids coming up. They all have similar pitfalls that trace back to automatically accepting what is taught to them, instead of understanding it on a fundamental level, or understanding how to apply it to their body dynamics and make it their own (yet still functional of course). Lundqvist is a great example of that to me. Or even like a Kiprusoff or a Fleury. They took all the bits and pieces of their coaching, but assembled them into their own form. Every mind should process differently. I'm just not seeing many guys, or at least the pool of guys I've observed, do that like the more known goalies. Usually people remember the unique ones because they are either really good, or really bad that they are memorable, and also limber and adaptable to the game. I'm not even that old, to be honest, I still don't have a 3 in front of my age.

[southpawtendy48]

On the basis of “robotic goaltending” that some of you have mentioned, I’m a very fundamental goalie and yes, I do a lot of drills where I practice the same types of movement. I get why it’s boring to watch, but I’d rather make stopping the puck look easy and constantly make saves I should make instead of making amazing looking saves, I understand if it isn’t your fault you’re out of position and if you can make the save that’s pretty amazing, but if you have to make an incredible save because of a wrong decision you make (misplaying the puck, lack of rebound control on chest shots, etc.) I’m not gonna praise it. I still have issues with it, everyone does, but if a professional goalie stops the puck and is successful at it and he/she happens to have a “robotic” style I don’t think the goalie is gonna care about how boring it looks. Just food for thought. 

[bunnyman666]

5 hours ago, southpawtendy48 said:

On the basis of “robotic goaltending” that some of you have mentioned, I’m a very fundamental goalie and yes, I do a lot of drills where I practice the same types of movement. I get why it’s boring to watch, but I’d rather make stopping the puck look easy and constantly make saves I should make instead of making amazing looking saves, I understand if it isn’t your fault you’re out of position and if you can make the save that’s pretty amazing, but if you have to make an incredible save because of a wrong decision you make (misplaying the puck, lack of rebound control on chest shots, etc.) I’m not gonna praise it. I still have issues with it, everyone does, but if a professional goalie stops the puck and is successful at it and he/she happens to have a “robotic” style I don’t think the goalie is gonna care about how boring it looks. Just food for thought. 

I am certain if people who saw the original versions of martial arts and would compare the current versions of martial arts and call it robotic. Wrestling (not WWE-style) is EXTREMELY robotic. 

The current style of tending has been refined over time and is taught pretty well universally. It’s that simple.