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Joe Messina

Second String Leather Company

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25 minutes ago, Peter36 said:

Update: it is very expensive

Very very expensive. The stuff looks decent. But on most products, the gear material is hidden somewhere on the inside. I really wanted to like this.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Peter36 said:

Update: it is very expensive

Wow, no kidding.  I don't get it, but I'm sure there's someone out there who will buy this stuff. 

1 wallet is 1/3 the price of a brand new top of the line pro blocker. 

It's a very cool idea, for sure.  

Edited by seagoal

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Will just hit up a big box store and get a wallet for $10. I was expecting your prices to be higher, but not 10+ times higher!

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1) Spam 

2) very expensive 

3) deceptive use to obtain vintage gear.  (Check out the facebook group: vintage goalie equipment.  He told one of the members he was going to be using it for display, not torn apart.

And if he's using the gear that he showed in the webpics to make this, what a waste of some gorgeous pieces.  This isn't appreciation or repurposing, it's wasting.

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@jeff da goalie, this guy should be able to do his thing without you pecking at it from the side and slandering his business/work. If you don't like the products, then the simple solution is to not purchase them. If you don't like all the posts, the simple solution is to not click on the thread to read them. Both these things are well within your control, nothing's being forced on you.

This is supposed to be a community made up of goalies, for goalies, and it's an appropriate place for a goalie to try and promote his goalie-themed, goalie-related business. I don't think it's wrong for people to discuss the products and pricing, or to be skeptical of the whole concept (I am)... but I think you should let a well-meaning person try and start a business without you posting snarky videos and being self-righteous about what he does with materials he's sought out/paid for. Seems like a lot of pointless negativity being directed at someone who had an idea for something new and had the guts/drive to try and make something out of it.

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1 hour ago, stackem30 said:

@jeff da goalie, this guy should be able to do his thing without you pecking at it from the side and slandering his business/work. If you don't like the products, then the simple solution is to not purchase them. If you don't like all the posts, the simple solution is to not click on the thread to read them. Both these things are well within your control, nothing's being forced on you.

This is supposed to be a community made up of goalies, for goalies, and it's an appropriate place for a goalie to try and promote his goalie-themed, goalie-related business. I don't think it's wrong for people to discuss the products and pricing, or to be skeptical of the whole concept (I am)... but I think you should let a well-meaning person try and start a business without you posting snarky videos and being self-righteous about what he does with materials he's sought out/paid for. Seems like a lot of pointless negativity being directed at someone who had an idea for something new and had the guts/drive to try and make something out of it. 

Thing about communities is that they're better when members are willing to participate and foster that sense of community. Joe Messina has done nothing but utilize this webpage as another tool to use for free advertising space without actually contributing to TGN.

While we have industry reps all over the place here, they do answer questions and participate from time to time to integrate into what we have here. Joe Messina has done none of that and it's transparent as hell. I don't disagree with Jeff da goalie or other members for rolling their eyes at this product.

He isn't using this site for it's intended purpose and is essentially abusing it by constantly spamming his advertisements. Couple that with the questionable community interactions in other hockey communities, I think it's more than fair game to question his motives and pick apart how he chooses to interact with us.

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While I agree that it's an appropriate place to provide occasional updates on the business, daily reminders that his website is "coming soon" were a little much and resulted in some of the backlash Joe is seeing. 

To be honest, he lost any chance of getting me to buy from him (despite the fact that I love the idea and don't hate the prices) with his obnoxious advertising tactics.   I realize that this is an approach that supposedly works with the younger generation. However, talking to many of them who I work with, they're as over it as everyone else.  They find the daily teaser routine to be as tired and played out as us old farts.  Given the prices and product, I don't think the target audience is 12 year olds, so the advertising campaign was a failure. 

Regarding price:  I'm going to speculate that it's around $150 for a wallet based on comments.  I'm not going to increase his site traffic by checking prices as I won't be buying.  But it's not like you can't pay that kind of money for a wallet from other places that might not have the same sentimental meaning to you that one of these could.  It's also a niche market for handmade goods.  I'm not at all surprised that the prices are what they are and they're probably where they need to be to justify  the level of effort that's gone into this. 

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10 minutes ago, Puckstopper said:

Regarding price:  I'm going to speculate that it's around $150 for a wallet based on comments.  I'm not going to increase his site traffic by checking prices as I won't be buying.  But it's not like you can't pay that kind of money for a wallet from other places that might not have the same sentimental meaning to you that one of these could.  It's also a niche market for handmade goods.  I'm not at all surprised that the prices are what they are and they're probably where they need to be to justify  the level of effort that's gone into this. 

$100 - $130 USD. Definitely on the high side, especially for using repurposed materials (i.e. used, sweaty, old hockey pads).

That price range is more akin to new leather wallets. I feel like the price point will be the largest barrier to sales than his advertising tactics or general market.

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19 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Thing about communities is that they're better when members are willing to participate and foster that sense of community. Joe Messina has done nothing but utilize this webpage as another tool to use for free advertising space without actually contributing to TGN.

While we have industry reps all over the place here, they do answer questions and participate from time to time to integrate into what we have here. Joe Messina has done none of that and it's transparent as hell. I don't disagree with Jeff da goalie or other members for rolling their eyes at this product.

He isn't using this site for it's intended purpose and is essentially abusing it by constantly spamming his advertisements. Couple that with the questionable community interactions in other hockey communities, I think it's more than fair game to question his motives and pick apart how he chooses to interact with us.

Agree with this completely.  To obtain the Brown pads used, he specifically told the person he obtained them from that they would be used "for display purposes".  I guess, technically, he did "display" them in his teaser ads....  The Vintage Goalie Equipment group on FB is NOT happy right now.

It's too bad, because I DO like the Masked Marvel masks, and Joe did make the Essensa Harrison mask available.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

$100 - $130 USD. Definitely on the high side, especially for using repurposed materials (i.e. used, sweaty, old hockey pads).

That price range is more akin to new leather wallets. I feel like the price point will be the largest barrier to sales than his advertising tactics or general market.

Coop, I agree 100% that for the majority price will be the bigger issue.  Speaking for myself, I'd cheerfully pay that for a piece that paid homage to a set of get I used to own/love (so the logo would have to be right).  However, I HATE obnoxious advertising practices and have a list of companies that I would only do business with if they were my absolute last resort.  Progressive springs to mind, I genuinely hope whoever invented the "Flo" character is stung to death by fire ants.  I realize that I'm swimming upstream on this one and I usually don't talk/rant about it but this post has annoyed me for some time now and is bringing out the worst in me today.  I also agree that the OP brings nothing to the table in the forum at large which is another reason I have no interest in supporting his enterprise.

Edited by Puckstopper
Spelling error
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2 hours ago, stackem30 said:

@jeff da goalie, this guy should be able to do his thing without you pecking at it from the side and slandering his business/work. If you don't like the products, then the simple solution is to not purchase them. If you don't like all the posts, the simple solution is to not click on the thread to read them. Both these things are well within your control, nothing's being forced on you.

This is supposed to be a community made up of goalies, for goalies, and it's an appropriate place for a goalie to try and promote his goalie-themed, goalie-related business. I don't think it's wrong for people to discuss the products and pricing, or to be skeptical of the whole concept (I am)... but I think you should let a well-meaning person try and start a business without you posting snarky videos and being self-righteous about what he does with materials he's sought out/paid for. Seems like a lot of pointless negativity being directed at someone who had an idea for something new and had the guts/drive to try and make something out of it.

Stackem30:  If he had put this in the Bandits Goalie School forum -- which is the section of this site that is dedicated to all things Joe Messina -- I'd probably have ignored it.  But he took a public forum (Lifestyle) and spammed it daily if not more so.  And, because it was daily, it was showing up in my "Latest" view as well.  

Which he also did on Vintage Goalie Gear and other goalie groups as well.  I spend 99% of my time on these fora contributing positively.  Perhaps 1% is selling gear (not that that isn't part of most of the fora I use).  But Joe doesn't generally participate on any of them other than to post pictures of masks he's sold or this latest foray.  And what he did in snookering a member of Vintage Goalie Equipment leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

So yeah, I'm going to call out questionable business practices along with when someone is spamming a group.  

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Posted (edited)

In truth, I don't know anything about Joe Messina, or any other interactions on other hockey communities. And I feel similarly about the teaser posts and the actual products as many of the detractors here... but when I take a step back, I just don't see the point in trying to torpedo another person who is trying to get something going if they're not hurting anyone. 

As much as I might agree with much of what the detractors are pointing out, all this sanctimonious complaining about "spamming" and old materials basically adds up to "I think his posts are annoying" or "I would have launched this differently". The "spamming" complaint is nonsense — you'd have to click on this thread every time you come onto this board to see every post and teaser. Or you'd have to follow him on social media. It's on you if you continue to subject yourself to something that annoys you. Either way, are these things really worth your taking the time to try to bring someone down who's invested their time in trying to create a business?

It's typical internet behavior — I guarantee everyone here wouldn't feel comfortable standing around and saying these things to potential customers outside a storefront... you would simply not go into the store yourself, or opt not to buy anything, and let others decide what they want to do while you move on with your life. So just don't click on this thread, and don't buy the products, and none of this should ever bother you again. And you can let Joe Messina succeed or fail without directly interfering with his venture.

Edited by stackem30

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@stackem30 it's not the teasers, or the launching that upsets me.

It is the fact that Joe outright LIED to source his materials.  Materials that were still very usable and very playable.  It is his deception that leaves a foul taste in the mouth.  Just like the lies and deception in the Monster Hockey antics, THIS is what turns me off.

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OR.... Joe could learn from the criticism he's facing here and make and effort to be more of a positive contributor.  One truism in business at all levels is that if you're a successful businessman you'd rather get negative feedback than lose a customer (or potential customer) and not know why they walked. 

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@jeff da goalie, @Naz, @Puckstopper and @coopaloop1234: thanks for doing the heavy lifting for me on this one - you guys all nailed it!  In addition:

51 minutes ago, Puckstopper said:

... I realize that this is an approach that supposedly works with the younger generation. However, talking to many of them who I work with, they're as over it as everyone else...

The key here is as you said "talking to many of them who I work with.." therein lies the rub: once you are actually working and using your hard earned dollars to support your activities, your focus on purchases is tightly sharpened. I reserve going rather down "rant road" on that subject.

Even though at this point in my life, I am lucky enough to have the money to afford that stuff (if I really wanted it), it wouldn't interest me. But I have always been a hands-on kind of guy (which has served me well in the "oh-crap-is that-broken/ripped/cut-again?" area). This makes me think that, when I do hang them up, I may just make myself a nice little memento out of a piece that has worn to the point of "unresellability", for probably next to nothing.  Actually, it makes me sad I dumped the old GM-21 glove and GM12 blocker way back when, although if I was going to re-purpose the blocker, the resulting wallet would have been 90% duct-tape anyway.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, stackem30 said:

In truth, I don't know anything about Joe Messina, or any other interactions on other hockey communities. And I feel similarly about the teaser posts and the actual products as many of the detractors here... but when I take a step back, I just don't see the point in trying to torpedo another person who is trying to get something going if they're not hurting anyone. 

As much as I might agree with much of what the detractors are pointing out, all this sanctimonious complaining about "spamming" and old materials basically adds up to "I think his posts are annoying" or "I would have launched this differently". The "spamming" complaint is nonsense — you'd have to click on this thread every time you come onto this board to see every post and teaser. Or you'd have to follow him on social media. It's on you if you continue to subject yourself to something that annoys you. Either way, are these things really worth your taking the time to try to bring someone down who's invested their time in trying to create a business?

It's typical internet behavior — I guarantee everyone here wouldn't feel comfortable standing around and saying these things to potential customers outside a storefront... you would simply not go into the store yourself, or opt not to buy anything, and let others decide what they want to do while you move on with your life. So just don't click on this thread, and don't buy the products, and none of this should ever bother you again. And you can let Joe Messina succeed or fail without directly interfering with his venture.

By providing their feedback, the users of this forum are attempting to steer it away from a road they'd rather not see it go down. That's the power of the people, something that we as the masses should never forget.

Being "typical internet behavior" is not an excuse and certainly doesn't make it right - but unless we call people out on this stuff it will remain the norm.

Edited by Colander

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Posted (edited)

Incidentally, I work with social media in my other life.  And what I learned is that the best commercial uses of social media are ones where a community is being built.  Where you don't realize that marketing is part of the social media effort because it's seamless.  If Joe had posted once on May 29th "Hey, come take a look at what we just started" AND hadn't misled someone to obtain materials, I'd not have noticed or commented.  

And I'm only commenting because once a board becomes purely commercial, it's utility for other things often disappears.  

Edited by jeff da goalie
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26 minutes ago, Naz said:

@stackem30 it's not the teasers, or the launching that upsets me.

It is the fact that Joe outright LIED to source his materials.  Materials that were still very usable and very playable.  It is his deception that leaves a foul taste in the mouth.  Just like the lies and deception in the Monster Hockey antics, THIS is what turns me off.

Ah, this is news to me, and it definitely erases a lot of the good will I'd want to extend to someone starting a new business venture. 

Fair points about wanting to steer business practices away from a road we don't want to go down, too. I can't emphasize enough how much I agree with the sentiments about teasers and the concept itself, I just bristled at the idea that someone who was "trying to make something" getting batted down over issues that were little more than "kind of annoying" or "corny". It takes some courage to try and come up with a new idea / make it work, and I like the idea of encouraging people to do more this, rather than discourage them. But....

Yeah, the whole materials thing sounds a bit more worthy of condemnation. If someone is being dishonest or manipulating people to get material for their project, and then markets that product as honoring/respecting the original material, that's going to rub people the wrong way.

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Posted (edited)

I have no issue with the cost because a niche business generally has higher prices. I think the idea is a cool one. However, it disappoints me that equipment that is still usable or at least presentable for display purposes is being dismantled for source material. I’m a believer that if it’s still usable or can be a nice display piece, it should be saved from the knife. I wish they used only unsalvageable equipment to build from. Or even scraps from when an old piece is refurbished.  

Edited by WillyGrips13

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Has Joe ever done anything other than advertise on this website? I'm still relatively new. 

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24 minutes ago, aircanuck said:

Has Joe ever done anything other than advertise on this website? I'm still relatively new. 

I have not seen any evidence against your assertion and I have been on and off of this website since 2017.

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Posted (edited)

Imo everyone here is right and has a right to their opinion.  This is being used as advertising space, but comments are allowed.  While I don't have a facebook or have actually seen proof of the deceiving sourcing myself (if it's been posted or a link provided, I missed it), that too would turn me away from ever considering purchase.  It also would be a nightmare to start a business and then have it slandered falsely and ruins a lifetime dream or savings.  My suggestion would be to start another thread discussing the company and leave their ad space alone.  If said thread could then have posts of shady business it would be appreciated.  Bunnyman kinda did that already I think, but it's tongue in cheek and won't give something for new users to search for when we are all hopefully here 10+ years from now, yelling at newbies for not searching.  I loved Gsbb and I love this site.  Freedom of speech is important. 

Edited by dreadlocked1
lol

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