Bauer Supreme 1S Skates

[TheGoalNet]

In my opinion, Graf's niche was having a fit for everyone and being a nice boutique /craftsmen brand. They were not Bauer or CCM in a positive way. Their path to getting there was 10,000 different boot models. They were stubborn about updating their materials and made inventory difficult for retailers. 

True is offering a fit for everyone and they are the boutique / craftsmen brand. In my opinion, they appeal to the same consumer that Grad used to. However, they have 0 inventory which is retailer friendly and they have a competitive and modern skate construction. If Graf had more foresight, they should have transitioned into what True is doing. This could actually be phenomenal case  study if True were to grow their business and eclipse what Graf was at their peak. 

[IPv6Freely]

7 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

In my opinion, they appeal to the same consumer that Graf used to.

Well, I mean I guess Graf would have appealed to me if I could have actually bought them  

[bunnyman666]

3 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

In my opinion, Graf's niche was having a fit for everyone and being a nice boutique /craftsmen brand. They were not Bauer or CCM in a positive way. Their path to getting there was 10,000 different boot models. They were stubborn about updating their materials and made inventory difficult for retailers. 

True is offering a fit for everyone and they are the boutique / craftsmen brand. In my opinion, they appeal to the same consumer that Grad used to. However, they have 0 inventory which is retailer friendly and they have a competitive and modern skate construction. If Graf had more foresight, they should have transitioned into what True is doing. This could actually be phenomenal case  study if True were to grow their business and eclipse what Graf was at their peak. 

The weirdest thing was that every time I tried to buy a pair of modern Graf, the store never had my boot! I really think that most retailers did not stock all of the fits! Bitterly disappointing, as I had very fond memories of Graf when they were ONLY Swiss made.

True skates will probably end up over-taking a lot of other makes, being a custom skate at not a huge mark up over a top-end offering.

[IPv6Freely]

18 minutes ago, bunnyman666 said:

The weirdest thing was that every time I tried to buy a pair of modern Graf, the store never had my boot! I really think that most retailers did not stock all of the fits!

This, and the atrocious QC issues, are why Graf is dead. They basically ran themselves out of business by trying too hard to fit everyone. 

[bunnyman666]

1 minute ago, IPv6Freely said:

This, and the atrocious QC issues, are why Graf is dead. They basically ran themselves out of business by trying too hard to fit everyone. 

I do not disagree...

Graf Switzerland, on the other hand, is humming right along.

[TheGoalNet]

1 hour ago, IPv6Freely said:

This, and the atrocious QC issues, are why Graf is dead. They basically ran themselves out of business by trying too hard to fit everyone. 

^ Exactly my point. True is chasing the same market of fitting every foot, but they are doing it better than Graf did. The QC issue is a valid point too I had not included, great point. I still think True would have eaten their lunch without the QC issues. It's a better product and more retailer friendly. 

Vaughn kind of makes me sad. They own a couple loved brands in Graf and Eagle and it feels like they are letting them die a slow death. 

1 hour ago, bunnyman666 said:

The weirdest thing was that every time I tried to buy a pair of modern Graf, the store never had my boot! I really think that most retailers did not stock all of the fits! Bitterly disappointing, as I had very fond memories of Graf when they were ONLY Swiss made.

True skates will probably end up over-taking a lot of other makes, being a custom skate at not a huge mark up over a top-end offering.

I challenge that True will take over a lot of the top end market. It's basically down to 3 now anyway. If they are at 5% market share now, could they grow to 25? Absolutely. 

But, Bauer and CCM are the most iconic brands in hockey and have survived a lot of turmoil over the years. They also both have deep pockets can throw a lot into R&D. As a fact, Bauer spends $8m annually in R&D. Skates and sticks are their biggest focus. 

Bauer even recently launched their skate scanning device. It it is not stretch that Bauer uses that technology to promote their custom program. They could ramp of the services they offer to pros and make them more widely available at retail via the scan machine and MyBauer program. Then Bauer and True would then be competing on boot design, lead time, and price... not just fit. That would be entirely different conversation. 

I think every single customer who has ordered customer Bauer skates via @TGC-Rance has loved the output. Mass customization is a global trend and it will be embraced here. The question is... Is it 3 years out or 8? 

[IPv6Freely]

3 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

^ Exactly my point. True is chasing the same market of fitting every foot, but they are doing it better than Graf did. The QC issue is a valid point too I had not included, great point. I still think True would have eaten their lunch without the QC issues. It's a better product and more retailer friendly. 

Vaughn kind of makes me sad. They own a couple loved brands in Graf and Eagle and it feels like they are letting them die a slow death. 

I challenge that True will take over a lot of the top end market. It's basically down to 3 now anyway. If they are at 5% market share now, could they grow to 25? Absolutely. 

But, Bauer and CCM are the most iconic brands in hockey and have survived a lot of turmoil over the years. They also both have deep pockets can throw a lot into R&D. As a fact, Bauer spends $8m annually in R&D. Skates and sticks are their biggest focus. 

Bauer even recently launched their skate scanning device. It it is not stretch that Bauer uses that technology to promote their custom program. They could ramp of the services they offer to pros and make them more widely available at retail via the scan machine and MyBauer program. Then Bauer and True would then be competing on boot design, lead time, and price... not just fit. That would be entirely different conversation. 

I think every single customer who has ordered customer Bauer skates via @TGC-Rance has loved the output. Mass customization is a global trend and it will be embraced here. The question is... Is it 3 years out or 8? 

The Bauer scanners seem like they're dipping their toes in the water. Right now it scans and drops you into to the closest fit retail skate. Maybe it's the precursor to Bauer offering true custom skates. 

[TheGoalNet]

@IPv6Freely - Yes, that is what my prediction is and the picture I am trying to paint. This in my opinion and not any insider info...

Bauer owns the market today and is slowly building out the infrastructure to offer a larger and better custom program. If True keeps growing and drawing attention to their unique approach, it's only a matter of time until Bauer jumps in. 

In all honestly, it's better for the customer and stores too:

1. If you are paying $1000 USD, shouldn't you get something perfectly made for you? 
2. It would drastically reduce the amount of inventory of high end product that a retailer had to a carry
3. It could help local shops compete with the goliaths better
4. It should reduce foot issues
5. If there is a benefit to a Supreme engineered boot for player X and a Vapor boot for skating style Y, people will get the technology and fit to maximize their potential. Right now people with Bauer are limited to which boot fits and that negates any engineering differences between Vapor and Supreme designs 

[bunnyman666]

2 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

@IPv6Freely - Yes, that is what my prediction is and the picture I am trying to paint. This in my opinion and not any insider info...

Bauer owns the market today and is slowly building out the infrastructure to offer a larger and better custom program. If True keeps growing and drawing attention to their unique approach, it's only a matter of time until Bauer jumps in. 

In all honestly, it's better for the customer and stores too:

1. If you are paying $1000 USD, shouldn't you get something perfectly made for you? 
2. It would drastically reduce the amount of inventory of high end product that a retailer had to a carry
3. It could help local shops compete with the goliaths better
4. It should reduce foot issues
5. If there is a benefit to a Supreme engineered boot for player X and a Vapor boot for skating style Y, people will get the technology and fit to maximize their potential. Right now people with Bauer are limited to which boot fits and that negates any engineering differences between Vapor and Supreme designs 

And if that becomes the case, I would love to be a skate dealer, as there would be little to no inventory and would dovetail into my business! 

[TheGoalNet]

@bunnyman666 - Can you look at getting True now?

[bunnyman666]

I may ask them once I get other stuff going, first.

[IPv6Freely]

1 hour ago, TheGoalNet said:

@IPv6Freely - Yes, that is what my prediction is and the picture I am trying to paint. This in my opinion and not any insider info...

Bauer owns the market today and is slowly building out the infrastructure to offer a larger and better custom program. If True keeps growing and drawing attention to their unique approach, it's only a matter of time until Bauer jumps in. 

In all honestly, it's better for the customer and stores too:

1. If you are paying $1000 USD, shouldn't you get something perfectly made for you? 
2. It would drastically reduce the amount of inventory of high end product that a retailer had to a carry
3. It could help local shops compete with the goliaths better
4. It should reduce foot issues
5. If there is a benefit to a Supreme engineered boot for player X and a Vapor boot for skating style Y, people will get the technology and fit to maximize their potential. Right now people with Bauer are limited to which boot fits and that negates any engineering differences between Vapor and Supreme designs 

The first point is basically True's selling point, at this point.

The 5th point made me cringe a bit as there are still people that think Vapor is better for forwards and Supreme is better for defensemen. I actually hear that fairly often still. I just shake my head and walk away. 

[Nohtaram]

@TheGoalNet Hey there. Sorry to reopen old thread but I'm about to get my S1 skates in a couple days and want to ask about baking them. 

I know I will have to bake them at least once to fit them to my feet properly. You wrote you baked them couple times. 

1.Do you think it influence the overall durability of the skates? 

2. Did you use kitchen oven for this or bake them in some pro shop in dedicated oven? 

[Mroy31]

16 minutes ago, Nohtaram said:

@TheGoalNet Hey there. Sorry to reopen old thread but I'm about to get my S1 skates in a couple days and want to ask about baking them. 

I know I will have to bake them at least once to fit them to my feet properly. You wrote you baked them couple times. 

1.Do you think it influence the overall durability of the skates? 

2. Did you use kitchen oven for this or bake them in some pro shop in dedicated oven? 

I baked mine twice, both at a local hockey shop.  You could technically do it yourself if you have a convection oven and NEVER PUT THE SKATES IN WHEN THE ELEMENT IS ON, but it's probably just safer to go to the shop.

One tip though is after they are baked, keep the laces tightened (not like you've got them tied to your foot, just taught) when not wearing them so that the composite doesn't try to force itself back to original shape.  

You may only need one bake, but even if you do it twice, it shouldn't really affect the overall durability of the skate.  Mine have been going for 3 years with no issues on that front.

[Nohtaram]

Thanks for such quick reply and great tip.

[TheGoalNet]

21 hours ago, Nohtaram said:

Thanks for such quick reply and great tip.

Let us know how it goes. I also had 2 bakes on these to them dialed in.