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TheGoalNet

Sportmask Out of the NHL

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With Cam Ward’s retirement and Quick’s change to Pro’s Choice, I believe Sportmask is out of the NHL. Sad day. With my limited experience with the Sportmask, I’ve found it to be a great product. They’re also extremely affordable. 

Wonder if they’ll rebound. Hopefully this doesn’t turn into John Brown where they slowly fade away 

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11 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

With Cam Ward’s requirement and Quick’s change to Pro’s Choice, I believe Sportmask is out of the NHL. Sad day. With my limited experience with the Sportmask, I’ve found it to be a great product. They’re also extremely affordable. 

Wonder if they’re rebound. Hopefully this doesn’t turn into John Brown where they slowly fade away 

I really don't think they were selling masks based on Ward and Quick.  I have a Pro 3, F Series, and love it.  They will continue to sell to the masses of Beer League guys and Kids alike.  

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13 hours ago, cwarnar said:

I really don't think they were selling masks based on Ward and Quick.  I have a Pro 3, F Series, and love it.  They will continue to sell to the masses of Beer League guys and Kids alike.  

No, but I think having your mask in the NHL gives you credibility you don’t get otherwise. It’s also exposure with the kids. I personally don’t think catering to beer leagues, like myself, is a recipe for long term success 

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41 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

No, but I think having your mask in the NHL gives you credibility you don’t get otherwise. It’s also exposure with the kids. I personally don’t think catering to beer leagues, like myself, is a recipe for long term success 

See while I think you're right, I do think there isn't alot of focus on masks from the kids/beer leaguers. 

Hell, until about 2 years ago, I could barely tell masks apart. I still have difficulty aside from recognizing the ccm vs NME vs profiles. Even those take some time for me to determine. 

Couple that with masks being absolutely draped in paint and fancy designs, it feels to me that masks seem to fall to the wayside for being a marketable product at the highest level. 

Unless you're a gear nut of course. 

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1 hour ago, coopaloop1234 said:

See while I think you're right, I do think there isn't alot of focus on masks from the kids/beer leaguers. 

Hell, until about 2 years ago, I could barely tell masks apart. I still have difficulty aside from recognizing the ccm vs NME vs profiles. Even those take some time for me to determine. 

Couple that with masks being absolutely draped in paint and fancy designs, it feels to me that masks seem to fall to the wayside for being a marketable product at the highest level. 

Unless you're a gear nut of course. 

And really... Bauer is the Premier NHL lid... What's all over store shelves Bauer and CCM.  Companies like Otny (which mas merged with Sportmask), Pros Choice (Branded Vaughn up until last year) and Warwick still make quality products that are used at high levels.  But most uniformed parents or beer league goalies are grabbing junk because its got Bauer or CCM on it.

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Honestly, I’ve never been able to tell masks apart by manufacturer or shape. I’ve only ever noticed artwork. I subconsciously knew that goalie x’s mask was shaped differently than goalie y’s mask, but never thought to ask why. I was amazed to read all the knowledge GSBB members had about masks and the same here on thegoalnet. I’m still ignorant on the topic. Maybe one day if I need a new mask I’ll need to learn all about it. Maybe it’s just me, though. IDK. 

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1 hour ago, cwarnar said:

And really... Bauer is the Premier NHL lid... What's all over store shelves Bauer and CCM.  Companies like Otny (which mas merged with Sportmask), Pros Choice (Branded Vaughn up until last year) and Warwick still make quality products that are used at high levels.  But most uniformed parents or beer league goalies are grabbing junk because its got Bauer or CCM on it.

Fair, but I still think with social media people know Miller is in a Warwick. I feel like without NHL exposure, niche brands could from niche to extinct or tiny. Obviously, it’s just my opinion. I feel like Passau is the only brand who’s stayed out of the NHL completely and chugs along okay. People could say Boddam, but their Lax stuff probably aids them. Warrior has sticks to rely on and sticks and skates keep every company afloat 

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57 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

Fair, but I still think with social media people know Miller is in a Warwick. I feel like without NHL exposure, niche brands could from niche to extinct or tiny. Obviously, it’s just my opinion. I feel like Passau is the only brand who’s stayed out of the NHL completely and chugs along okay. People could say Boddam, but their Lax stuff probably aids them. Warrior has sticks to rely on and sticks and skates keep every company afloat 

True, but when it comes to masks, think of the retail game.  GM, Source for Sports, Pro Hockey Life, Pure Goalie... Bauer and CCM.  Sportmask and Coveted make it to retailers that carry a larger selection.

But the following are direct to customer:

Otny, ProMasque, New Image, Warwick, Defender, Masked Marvel, Pros Choice and ProTechSport.

Are Wall and Fusion are still in business.

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11 minutes ago, cwarnar said:

Are Wall and Fusion are still in business.

Wall is still in business atleast in Europe. Still probably most used mask brand in Finnish Liiga

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On 9/7/2019 at 3:32 PM, cwarnar said:

And really... Bauer is the Premier NHL lid... What's all over store shelves Bauer and CCM.  Companies like Otny (which mas merged with Sportmask), Pros Choice (Branded Vaughn up until last year) and Warwick still make quality products that are used at high levels.  But most uniformed parents or beer league goalies are grabbing junk because its got Bauer or CCM on it.

FWIW Warwick has not been producing their own masks for many years now. 

As far as why Bauer and CCM outsell the other brands, it could come down to a number of factors: brand recognition (including pro usage, which is what we are discussing here), ease of access at the retail level (to try on, touch and feel), general awareness, etc. 

Lets face it - if I’m a hockey parent with no other background in the sport and I take my kid to the local retail spot to get a mask, I’ll buy what the goalie expert there recommends as long as it fits my little one.  Bonus points if there’s a banner of Price or Vasilevsky wearing it at the NHL level  because it’s pro usage means it must be good, right? 

Its going to be tough to compare the big boys who sell on volume vs the boutique brands that sell on service and 1 on 1 attention. They’re completely different business models targeting different audiences. 

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On 9/7/2019 at 7:01 PM, Henkkath said:

Wall is still in business atleast in Europe. Still probably most used mask brand in Finnish Liiga

WallUSA is also kicking around as Victory Masks. 

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On 9/7/2019 at 5:48 PM, cwarnar said:

Are Wall and Fusion are still in business.

To me there is a difference between relevant and in business.

To me, Sportmask and Pro's Choice were always the relevant smaller guys. Protechsport and Coveted may make a great product, but they are pretty niche products. I think your average goalie knows the Cam Ward and Tuukka don't wear a Bauer or CCM bucket. I personally put Wall somewhere in the middle. Fusion not a blip on most people's radar

By contrast, most goalies had no idea how to get a Giggy RBK bucket when he was lighting the league up. I think people know who Sportmask is or they could email Vaughn and figure how to buy a Pro's Choice

Again, this is all opinion. I am looking at this as though your a 16 year old goalie and not a GSBB legend

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To add to the mix, at the Perani's demo day one of the guys from Warrior told me they're debuting a line of masks in 2020.

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It would really be helpful if there was some repository/clearing house somewhere about which masks/helmets/whatever you call it are sufficient for ice against good players. I've seen some guys in net with something they bought from Play It Again and they think they are protected. That's from men who should be able to research why one bucket is better than another. I cant even imagine what a parent thinks trying to get their son/daughter's noggin safely protected. On a side note, relevant to the concussion thread, do any of the studies control for the bucket worn by the concussee? 

Edited by Fullright
typo
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7 hours ago, motowngoalie said:

To add to the mix, at the Perani's demo day one of the guys from Warrior told me they're debuting a line of masks in 2020.

@Kirk3190 - Anything to add here?

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2 hours ago, Fullright said:

It would really be helpful if there was some repository/clearing house somewhere about which masks/helmets/whatever you call it are sufficient for ice against good players. I've seen some guys in net with something they bought from Play It Again and they think they are protected. That's from men who should be able to research why one bucket is better than another. I cant even imagine what a parent thinks trying to get their son/daughter's noggin safely protected. On a side note, relevant to the concussion thread, do any of the studies control for the bucket worn by the concussee? 

Unfortunately, there’s never been an independent study and released to the public. That’s the problem! 

We all assume carbon fiber masks are better, but do we have any proof? Does anyone has statistical data pricing an injection molded NME 4 is worse than a VTX or do we all just assume that?

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22 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

Unfortunately, there’s never been an independent study and released to the public. That’s the problem! 

We all assume carbon fiber masks are better, but do we have any proof? Does anyone has statistical data pricing an injection molded NME 4 is worse than a VTX or do we all just assume that?

That was the debate when the Wall ProActive (now W4) came out - Wall suggested that the plastic/rubber mix it was made of was better than a stiff shell as it dispersed some of the impact and shock throughout the shell, rather than straight to the head. A lot of European pros (including Rask & Rinne) have used the W4 at high levels seemingly without serious injury too. 

In fact, if I remember correctly Wall only started making their other kevlar / composite masks because so many pros were just used to a stiff shell and couldn't be tempted into the W4. 

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28 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

Unfortunately, there’s never been an independent study and released to the public. That’s the problem! 

We all assume carbon fiber masks are better, but do we have any proof? Does anyone has statistical data pricing an injection molded NME 4 is worse than a VTX or do we all just assume that?

Anecdotal evidence is the best we have to go on. User A reports no issues with an NME3. User B has 2 concussions in NME3.  But whats the fit like? Were the shots similiar grade? What is the thickness of skull and surrounding brain fluid?  How old is the padding?

Comparing materials, the fiberglass\carbon\kevlar materials are seemingly less likely to experience a catastrophic failure than say a polycarbonate or ABS mask.

Reidic and Wall W4 have had masks used in the NHL.

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42 minutes ago, raucebyalien said:

That was the debate when the Wall ProActive (now W4) came out - Wall suggested that the plastic/rubber mix it was made of was better than a stiff shell as it dispersed some of the impact and shock throughout the shell, rather than straight to the head. A lot of European pros (including Rask & Rinne) have used the W4 at high levels seemingly without serious injury too. 

In fact, if I remember correctly Wall only started making their other kevlar / composite masks because so many pros were just used to a stiff shell and couldn't be tempted into the W4. 

The authors of that article linked in the above post (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.884.4970&rep=rep1&type=pdf) tested a variety of goalie masks, and provide data on their testing results. Their findings suggest that goalie masks with stiffer shells are universally better at protecting our heads than those with more flexible shells.

Edited by CJ Boiss
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