Polycarbonate

[Scythe]

this link should answer any questions about PC (polycarbonate). I wouldn't hesitate to use a PC mask and have been eyeing the Bauer 940X as my next purchase.

https://www.creativemechanisms.com/blog/everything-you-need-to-know-about-polycarbonate-pc

[CJ Boiss]

I mean, it's advertised as being for "recreational" or "average" level play. If you never have to face anyone with a cannon then it would be fine, I guess, but I think everyone has come up against the ankle-bender with a howitzer before.

Anyways, what about that article in particular has sold you on polycarbonate plastic as a mask material?

[Scythe]

The outstanding strength CJ. This article and many more like them.

[CJ Boiss]

"Strength CJ"?

[beansbats]

That's a marketing article, not a technical article.  The strengths discussed are against other types of plastics not other types of mask making materials.  Having said that, I believe that polycarbonate can be used to make a decent mask.

My .02 

[coopaloop1234]

44 minutes ago, beansbats said:

That's a marketing article, not a technical article.  The strengths discussed are against other types of plastics not other types of mask making materials.  Having said that, I believe that polycarbonate can be used to make a decent mask.

My .02 

Yea this is more of "why we use polycarbonate" instead of anything that would translate as to why a poly helmet would be a suitable alternative.

It's a very handy plastic that has a huge amount of uses due to it's malleability and overall strength, doesn't mean it's suited for high impact / shock absorption. I'm sure if it was safe enough, the top guys would be using it. It's a pretty cheap plastic to use in manufacturing. 

[BadAngle41]

@Scythe... I've used a Polycarbonate shell for a few years now... a Wall W6 (now the W7 if you look on their site.) Initially I bought it out of curiosity more than anything. At the time it was worn by a few guys playing pro in Europe... and even is today.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0bGBE8HWxT/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

It has held up very well... and I do face guys with howitzers as @CJ Boiss puts it on a regular basis. Taken plenty off the cage/shell and while it does have more flex than something that is fiberglass/kevlar/carbon fiber... not once did I get a ringing or anything. Material thickness on the chin and forehead is significantly thicker than in other areas.

That said, I have no experience at all with the 940X and how it compares to my W6... so just be sure it meets the level of play you find yourself in. I'd actually consider lower leagues more dangerous because a guy can get a suprisingly good clapper off... but their hockey sense and ability to hit an intended target are questionable at best.

[TheGoalNet]

13 hours ago, Scythe said:

this link should answer any questions about PC (polycarbonate). I wouldn't hesitate to use a PC mask and have been eyeing the Bauer 940X as my next purchase.

https://www.creativemechanisms.com/blog/everything-you-need-to-know-about-polycarbonate-pc

I agree with @BadAngle41 - Not all polycarbonate is the same. Saying Polycarbonate is like saying wood. soft woods are good for certain applications. Hard woods are good for other. The thickness of said wood will determine how well it performs or how durable it is. There will be different grades of Polycarbonate, some will have other materials mixed in like a glass or mineral fiber. Depending on how the shell was molded will determine how much elongation it has.

So, I 100% believe the future of masks IS plastic. It might 20 years and it might take a new types material or new process, but I am sure it can be done... but reading an article and assuming the 940 is safe just because it's made of polycarbonate is a dangerous thought.

[Scythe]

2 hours ago, beansbats said:

That's a marketing article, not a technical article.  The strengths discussed are against other types of plastics not other types of mask making materials.  Having said that, I believe that polycarbonate can be used to make a decent mask.

My .02 

There's many more you can read if that's not technical enough for you.  

[Scythe]

17 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

I agree with @BadAngle41 - Not all polycarbonate is the same. Saying Polycarbonate is like saying wood. soft woods are good for certain applications. Hard woods are good for other. The thickness of said wood will determine how well it performs or how durable it is. There will be different grades of Polycarbonate, some will have other materials mixed in like a glass or mineral fiber. Depending on how the shell was molded will determine how much elongation it has.

So, I 100% believe the future of masks IS plastic. It might 20 years and it might take a new types material or new process, but I am sure it can be done... but reading an article and assuming the 940 is safe just because it's made of polycarbonate is a dangerous thought.

That's not my thoughts on it at all.  Thank you for caring. 

[MangoRhinehart]

I feel like plastic masks get a bad rep, mostly from the sins of the past with Itech/Bauer low end models. 

FWIW the Wall, early VIC Rhino (Black ABS, not the white), Reidic and NXI masks have been decent, in terms of protection.

[Naz]

I had one of the early Plastic Eddy Masks.  While it stood up well to hard shots, that was not the drawback to the mask.  The flexibility of the polycarbonate becomes an issue when you have someone heavy fall on your head during a scramble or when diving to cover a puck.

I know that the newer poly masks are much stiffer, but they still don't match up.

[TheGoalNet]

3 hours ago, Scythe said:

That's not my thoughts on it at all.  Thank you for caring. 

Then give us more detail. You made a post saying that you want to buy a Bauer 940 and explain this purchase by sharing a link to Polycarbonate. What is it about this specific mask that has you excited? There's multiple polymer masks to consider in the market.

I think it's great you have identified your next mask and shared with us about it. I hope you will also take the time to share with a review once you get it. That's the purpose of the website.

However, helmet safety is a topic near to my heart. I was  invited to be part of the NCAA's concussion study because of college injuries. I also spend about 25% of my professional career dealing with applying plastics to applications. Although I am not an expert on the subject or a chemist, I am fairly versed.

I feel obligated to chime in on this topic because I don't want anyone leaving this topic feeling that a 940 is a safe helmet. It depends on what level you play. Bauer even does not classify it that way. The 940 is designed for beginner goalies.

Based on the comments, other people have similar opinions to my own and have chimed in. Instead of a constructive conversation, you're being short and probably sarcastic with people. That does not help engage other posters and foster a meaningful discussion.

[Scythe]

I've been using a Fusion mask for a few years now. Very happy with it too. It looks like plastic on the outside but is layered with kevlar. The newer Fusions are layered up even more. It's a cool mask.. unique i'm just thinking maybe it's time to put it down. I was made in 2008, I've replaced rusted screws and put an Adams chin cup from a football helmet chinstrap into the mask. I like the feel of those kinds of chin cups more. I've priced getting the foams replaced/mask refurb but it's kind of pricey.

I believe in Bauer.. they put out great products. My first pair of skates in 76 were a used pair of Bauer i found at a thrift store. Only thing I did not care for was when they got with Nike and put the swoosh over everything. I'm not playing tennis. Same goes for Reebok.

[BadAngle41]

2 hours ago, Naz said:

I had one of the early Plastic Eddy Masks.  While it stood up well to hard shots, that was not the drawback to the mask.  The flexibility of the polycarbonate becomes an issue when you have someone heavy fall on your head during a scramble or when diving to cover a puck.

I know that the newer poly masks are much stiffer, but they still don't match up.

I hadn't thought about that aspect of it to be honest. Beer league doesn't get as many pile ups on me as leagues gone by... but i can do a rudimentary measures on this. I'll admit the stiffer shells i'm using to compare are old... a Hackva and a WJD...

1. Measure (in inches) across the back of the shell between the ears.
2. Measure (in inches) same location as Measure 1 but taken when under compression
   • Compression = Me squeezing the mask. (This is by no mean necessarily the same force applied to each mask equally.)
   • Worth noting is that by feel, the Wall took less force to compress to Measure 2 but also dramatically resisted more when further compression was applied. Also deflection at the top of the Wall mask seemed to be less than the others. That is to say the force being applied at the ears seemed to stay relatively local compared to the other masks which had visibly more deflection at the top of the mask when pressure was applied at the ears.

[BadAngle41]

@Scythe... I'm not sure if this helps... but to further @TheGoalNet's comparison chart... my W6 w/ Double Bar Cat Eye and Six12 padding kit comes in at 1376g... or almost 240g more than a 940X. Again, I can't speak to the properties of each specifically... but 1/2 lb more material is something to consider. Not sure if your budget allows for it but a W7 can be had for around $550 USD.

[Scythe]

yea those are good charts .. I've read them .. I going to look at the Wall's too. The 940X would be fine for what I do with hockey. i  appreciate all the feedback from everybody... I wasn't being sarcastic , sometimes it's hard to tell how things are being said in type.

[CJ Boiss]

7 hours ago, BadAngle41 said:

@Scythe... I've used a Polycarbonate shell for a few years now... a Wall W6 (now the W7 if you look on their site.) Initially I bought it out of curiosity more than anything. At the time it was worn by a few guys playing pro in Europe... and even is today.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0bGBE8HWxT/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

It has held up very well... and I do face guys with howitzers as @CJ Boiss puts it on a regular basis. Taken plenty off the cage/shell and while it does have more flex than something that is fiberglass/kevlar/carbon fiber... not once did I get a ringing or anything. Material thickness on the chin and forehead is significantly thicker than in other areas.

See, the problem is that a structurally sound mask - in that, it isn't being damaged by pucks, or sticks, or ice - is not necessarily a protective mask. Just because the mask isn't getting scratched, or suffering brittle or fatigue fractures, doesn't mean it is deflecting and absorbing impacts in a way that protects your brain.

I'm glad your mask is doing well for you, but a sample size of one does not a study make. Which really gets to the heart of the issue, in that we don't really have a comprehensive, scientific study about goalie helmets, and how they protect us when we get hit in the head by things during play.

[BadAngle41]

2 hours ago, CJ Boiss said:

See, the problem is that a structurally sound mask - in that, it isn't being damaged by pucks, or sticks, or ice - is not necessarily a protective mask. Just because the mask isn't getting scratched, or suffering brittle or fatigue fractures, doesn't mean it is deflecting and absorbing impacts in a way that protects your brain.

I'm glad your mask is doing well for you, but a sample size of one does not a study make. Which really gets to the heart of the issue, in that we don't really have a comprehensive, scientific study about goalie helmets, and how they protect us when we get hit in the head by things during play.

Entirely agree on the sample size... just offering first hand feedback instead of the anecdotes of instant death.  

[TheGoalNet]

2 hours ago, Scythe said:

yea those are good charts .. I've read them .. I going to look at the Wall's too. The 940X would be fine for what I do with hockey. i  appreciate all the feedback from everybody... I wasn't being sarcastic , sometimes it's hard to tell how things are being said in type.

All good. Hopefully it’s clear everyone is trying to help too. 

Let us know what you end up with 

[#16]

Now I want a see through goalie mask.

[MangoRhinehart]

52 minutes ago, #16 said:

Now I want a see through goalie mask.

Wall W7 or Victory make em

[ULTIMA]

I don't have a problem with plastic masks, I never had a problem with them. There's definitely a market for it.

My issue has always been that so many goalies get them because they're inexpenssive and not adequate for their level of play. It SHOULD be the responsibility of the retailer or salesperson to educate the consumer on all the different grades of equipment including masks. My very good friend now gets weekly headaches that she's never fully recovered from as a result of a concussion she got 10 years ago from wearing an inadequate Olie mask. She was forced to retire at only 20 years old.

Personally, I think any guy playing men's league - high or low wearing those masks is asking for it. You never know who you're going up against. And all it take is that 1 shot from the 1 guy who came in as a sub to end it all. That's just me.