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1 hour ago, ULTIMA said:

Everything above was well said, there's not a lot I can add but seeing as this is a Lefebvre thread, I'm not gonna discuss other brands here in depth. I will say this.. a lot of little things dibilitate the Vaughn brand name which, unfortunately, is by their own fault. Other companies have better marketing. Vaughn pretty well only sells as good as the salesman pushes it.

Speaking to brand names, I bet the kids do not know of "Mike Vaughn" they know Vaughn. I look True buying Lefevre as an opportunity to revamp interest in the Lefevre history. Use some old images of Roy, Broduer in their mask, etc

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Was I posting in Russian? Shit, I have to stop drinking vodka when I post. Or else it was Russian hackers. Either way it's bad news. Wait, why am I wearing an Adidas track suit and black leather dress

Vaughn doesn't really promote who designed the pads in the way True will rely on the "by Lefevre" brand. If Vaughn was bought by Walmart and fired Mike, most goalies probably wouldn't know Any L

I see it as a little arrogant, but at the same time good business sense. He is not a "nobody" or new to the game, he shrewdly kept his name on the CCM/KOHO pads for decades in case this day would come

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27 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

Speaking to brand names, I bet the kids do not know of "Mike Vaughn" they know Vaughn. I look True buying Lefevre as an opportunity to revamp interest in the Lefevre history. Use some old images of Roy, Broduer in their mask, etc

I can already see the confusion on kid's faces when True tries to use them as advertising material. :P

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12 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

Speaking to brand names, I bet the kids do not know of "Mike Vaughn" they know Vaughn. I look True buying Lefevre as an opportunity to revamp interest in the Lefevre history. Use some old images of Roy, Broduer in their mask, etc

Vaughn doesn't really promote who designed the pads in the way True will rely on the "by Lefevre" brand. If Vaughn was bought by Walmart and fired Mike, most goalies probably wouldn't know :)

Any Lefevre retro stuff will have limited appeal, and mostly to old-timers who already know/appreciate Lefevre, so I doubt that will boost sales much. The younger crowd is looking at the NOW, so it's more important to get some of today's big names in their pads. And I'm sure they will, as there were alot of pro's lining up outside Lefevre's door this summer for some new pads. But pro goalies can also switch brands relatively easily, eg. Hank was rocking TPS until they ran out of cash, then jumped on the Bauer money train. So TRUE is going to have to pony up some big bills if they want to get the exposure. I don't know how deep their pockets are, but probably not as deep as CCM's...

12 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

I can already see the confusion on kid's faces when True tries to use them as advertising material. :P

Passau used Brodeur and Tretiak wearing Ferland pads as some advertising, and that confused the hell out of me. Turns out the Passau guy designed Ferland back in the day, but takes some effort to connect the dots.

Showing a pic of Roy 2001 with his KOHO pads, and explaining that Lefevre was bought by KOHO, who was then bought by Adidas, who renamed it RBK, then slapped the CCM name on it, then sold CCM, who then sold just the Lefevre part to TRUE...

true2.JPG

Edited by estogoalie
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On 10/6/2020 at 5:06 AM, estogoalie said:

Vaughn doesn't really promote who designed the pads in the way True will rely on the "by Lefevre" brand. If Vaughn was bought by Walmart and fired Mike, most goalies probably wouldn't know :)

Any Lefevre retro stuff will have limited appeal, and mostly to old-timers who already know/appreciate Lefevre, so I doubt that will boost sales much. The younger crowd is looking at the NOW, so it's more important to get some of today's big names in their pads. And I'm sure they will, as there were alot of pro's lining up outside Lefevre's door this summer for some new pads. But pro goalies can also switch brands relatively easily, eg. Hank was rocking TPS until they ran out of cash, then jumped on the Bauer money train. So TRUE is going to have to pony up some big bills if they want to get the exposure. I don't know how deep their pockets are, but probably not as deep as CCM's...

Passau used Brodeur and Tretiak wearing Ferland pads as some advertising, and that confused the hell out of me. Turns out the Passau guy designed Ferland back in the day, but takes some effort to connect the dots.

Showing a pic of Roy 2001 with his KOHO pads, and explaining that Lefevre was bought by KOHO, who was then bought by Adidas, who renamed it RBK, then slapped the CCM name on it, then sold CCM, who then sold just the Lefevre part to TRUE...

true2.JPG

I don't disagree that it would be hard, but I think people appreciate nostalgia. Look how well retro air jordan's sell and he retired before a 20 yr old was born...

This is the image they'd have to use though, can't be koho

Patrick Roy 1991-92 O-Pee-Chee All Star Card # 270 | eBay1000+ images about hockey on Pinterest | Bernie parent ...

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On 10/6/2020 at 3:51 PM, TheGoalNet said:

I don't disagree that it would be hard, but I think people appreciate nostalgia. Look how well retro air jordan's sell and he retired before a 20 yr old was born...

This is the image they'd have to use though, can't be koho

Patrick Roy 1991-92 O-Pee-Chee All Star Card # 270 | eBay1000+ images about hockey on Pinterest | Bernie parent ...

I don't think that that's a fair comparison, respectfully. I feel you're comparing apples to bowling balls. Shoes are every day wear, basketball, running, casual whatever. Hockey and hockey equipment is already unique in it's own way.

 I don't think mentioning Patrick Roy and him wearing Lefevre gear most of his career adds much selling value to a goaltender born in 2007. It's good to mention the past and showcase some of the goalies they've had over the years but I'd put less emphasis on that and more today's modern equipment and the advantage to buying theirs over another.

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3 hours ago, ULTIMA said:



 I don't think mentioning Patrick Roy and him wearing Lefevre gear most of his career adds much selling value to a goaltender born in 2007. It's good to mention the past and showcase some of the goalies they've had over the years but I'd put less emphasis on that and more today's modern equipment and the advantage to buying theirs over another.

Nothing wrong with a retrospective of their history being made available to establish that the gear True is making has a multi-decade long pedigree, but it shouldn't be a core part of their marketing strategy.  Especially since you couldn't really do it without talking about a competitor, which is the last thing any gear MFG really wants their customers doing.

Basically people who come into the store I work at seem to fall into 1 of 2 categories when it comes to their attitude toward True:  Either they "heard from a friend" that True stuff is overpriced junk that falls apart the minute it touches the ice and won't even look at it, OR they're a total True slappy who buys every piece of protective  and stick they can get their hands on and won't even consider that there may be a better fit out there right now.     It's really a fascinating dynamic to watch. 

Once (if) we start carrying the stock True skates I'll be interested to see if things start to change, because having just bought a pair, I will say the TF9 is a phenomenal value for the money.  I think part of the perception issue True battles is that it's an elite-only brand and offering gear in lower price points will hopefully help out with that.

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3 hours ago, Puckstopper said:

Basically people who come into the store I work at seem to fall into 1 of 2 categories when it comes to their attitude toward True:  Either they "heard from a friend" that True stuff is overpriced junk that falls apart the minute it touches the ice and won't even look at it, OR they're a total True slappy who buys every piece of protective  and stick they can get their hands on and won't even consider that there may be a better fit out there right now.     It's really a fascinating dynamic to watch. 

Once (if) we start carrying the stock True skates I'll be interested to see if things start to change, because having just bought a pair, I will say the TF9 is a phenomenal value for the money.  I think part of the perception issue True battles is that it's an elite-only brand and offering gear in lower price points will hopefully help out with that.

Yea, True is kind of a new/small/nichè/quirky brand, who is now pairing with the decades old, conservative/veteran Lefevre ... let's see what kind of kids this strange marriage produces :)

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7 hours ago, Puckstopper said:

Nothing wrong with a retrospective of their history being made available to establish that the gear True is making has a multi-decade long pedigree, but it shouldn't be a core part of their marketing strategy.  Especially since you couldn't really do it without talking about a competitor, which is the last thing any gear MFG really wants their customers doing.

Basically people who come into the store I work at seem to fall into 1 of 2 categories when it comes to their attitude toward True:  Either they "heard from a friend" that True stuff is overpriced junk that falls apart the minute it touches the ice and won't even look at it, OR they're a total True slappy who buys every piece of protective  and stick they can get their hands on and won't even consider that there may be a better fit out there right now.     It's really a fascinating dynamic to watch. 

Once (if) we start carrying the stock True skates I'll be interested to see if things start to change, because having just bought a pair, I will say the TF9 is a phenomenal value for the money.  I think part of the perception issue True battles is that it's an elite-only brand and offering gear in lower price points will hopefully help out with that.

Agreed, I don't think it's the entire marketing campaign... but I personally feel they would be silly not play that card. They paid a lot of money to buy Lefevew, they should do everything possible to leverage the brand.

Roy, the number of cups over last 30 years a starter in Lefevre wore, the number of Vezinas, etc. "Lefevre's unmatched legacy and True's commitment to R&D" should be the pitch.

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I bet they could throw together a super concise "check out this chronology of HUGE goalies we spent years outfitting with our equipment," like they have in some of the pictures at their plant.

Lefevrefirst-designs500.jpg

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kids now are going to see what the pros are wearing and google the answer if they dont see the name on the pads.  the younger G like up to 13-14 yrs old wear whatever they think the pros wearing bc of parents. 

 

the 14 and 17 yrs old watch what the teammates are wearing and go by what the team has a deal with or leagues.

with the internet everyone knows what everyone else is wearing, its the  under 14 senior and offshore gear where the profits are.

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Lefevre has a more respected name in my opinion than True does in my opinion. Not a surprise granted the legacy carried by Lefevre, but they definitely both help each other.

I don't understand this duo though from a manufacturing standpoint. 

Lefevres all about old school, hand making their gear and making anything to leave the shop perfect.

Trues turned to more of a mass production and over the years has put less and less emphasis on the quality and craftsmanship of their skates and sticks. I cant speak on the durability from a first hand standpoint but I have seen countless true skates falling apart very quickly on people and their sticks have had infamously bad durability for people who I have seen use them.
With how much emphasis Lefevre puts on perfection, how they praise themselves on being a small, closed off group of workers who care about quality first, I wonder if that will be put to the side more, or if the mass production running True uses will. It will inevitably from how I see it be their biggest conflict of interest. In my opinion, True is more "in it for the money" than Lefevre is.

That being said, theyre 2 big name companies. They're going to boost each other up a lot. True gains a historic goalie name w tons of attached and inherent success and Lefevre is now under a progressive company on the rise that'll bring them closer to "true" modernity and innovation, something they are against and oppose in their gear designs in a lot of ways.

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This year's draft class was born in 2001-2002.  Patrick Roy retired in 2003.  None of these goalies had the privilege of watching the man play live - they grew up with guys like Fleury, Price, Lundqvist, Rask as the top guys in the league.

So here's a quick experiment, and it's meant for folks in their 30s, because it is the era of goalies that I grew up with...

 

  1. Without a google search, can you name what brand(s) Ken Dryden wore for his 6 Cups? 
  2. What about Grant Fuhr or Billy Smith? 
  3. As a kid growing up in the 90s, how much did these guys' gear choices affect your own, if at all?
  4. Or did you drool over the Koho, Vaughn, and Heaton gear in the Great Skate catalog because that's what Belfour, Roy, Potvin, and Brodeur were wearing?
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6 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

This year's draft class was born in 2001-2002.  Patrick Roy retired in 2003.  None of these goalies had the privilege of watching the man play live - they grew up with guys like Fleury, Price, Lundqvist, Rask as the top guys in the league.

So here's a quick experiment, and it's meant for folks in their 30s, because it is the era of goalies that I grew up with...

 

  1. Without a google search, can you name what brand(s) Ken Dryden wore for his 6 Cups? 
  2. What about Grant Fuhr or Billy Smith? 
  3. As a kid growing up in the 90s, how much did these guys' gear choices affect your own, if at all?
  4. Or did you drool over the Koho, Vaughn, and Heaton gear in the Great Skate catalog because that's what Belfour, Roy, Potvin, and Brodeur were wearing?

1. No

2. Fuhr I can remember a few of his sets 

3. none. 
 

4. Yes. I ordered every damn catalog I could get.  Don Simmons had a great catalog. Boston hockey company too.  I miss those days.  
I even had a friend that got me the brand product catalogs  

im slightly outside of your age demo. I’m 40. 

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10 hours ago, Max27 said:

I don't understand this duo though from a manufacturing standpoint. 

Lefevres all about old school, hand making their gear and making anything to leave the shop perfect.

 

You've touched Lefevre gear over the past decade right?

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20 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

You've touched Lefevre gear over the past decade right?

their retail gears been crappy build wise but thats the overseas made gear. The canadian made pads and gloves I have seen have had great quality. The L12.1 pads i saw in store felt and looked so much better built than the overseas built eflex 4s. Same with the gloves. 

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8 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

This year's draft class was born in 2001-2002.  Patrick Roy retired in 2003.  None of these goalies had the privilege of watching the man play live - they grew up with guys like Fleury, Price, Lundqvist, Rask as the top guys in the league.

So here's a quick experiment, and it's meant for folks in their 30s, because it is the era of goalies that I grew up with...

 

  1. Without a google search, can you name what brand(s) Ken Dryden wore for his 6 Cups? 
  2. What about Grant Fuhr or Billy Smith? 
  3. As a kid growing up in the 90s, how much did these guys' gear choices affect your own, if at all?
  4. Or did you drool over the Koho, Vaughn, and Heaton gear in the Great Skate catalog because that's what Belfour, Roy, Potvin, and Brodeur were wearing?

32 here.

1. I'd assume Lefevre, but it was all brown leather pads so who cares.
2. Vic? Vaughn for sure for at least one of them
3. Zero effect. At that age I was more excited about wearing the gear than what the guys on TV were wearing.
 

Quote

their retail gears been crappy build wise but thats the overseas made gear. The canadian made pads and gloves I have seen have had great quality. The L12.1 pads i saw in store felt and looked so much better built than the overseas built eflex 4s. Same with the gloves. 

And with True now owning the name, do you really expect too much of a difference in manufacturing mindset then when Lefevre were partnered with CCM/RBK?

I've never found Lefevre gear to be outstanding and I'm ready to be proven wrong. But you know me, I'm never wrong. ;)

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9 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

And with True now owning the name, do you really expect too much of a difference in manufacturing mindset then when Lefevre were partnered with CCM/RBK?

I've never found Lefevre gear to be outstanding and I'm ready to be proven wrong. But you know me, I'm never wrong. ;)

I think it might force Lefevre away from their small business Canadian made only mindset that they've adopted since the divorce between them and ccm. 

I don't think the canadian gear is outstanding by any means, but the bars pretty low w the build of the chinese made CCM gear from recent years, so it may just look better by default. I was impressed by the Lefevre stuff I saw in person, though. 

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18 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

This year's draft class was born in 2001-2002.  Patrick Roy retired in 2003.  None of these goalies had the privilege of watching the man play live - they grew up with guys like Fleury, Price, Lundqvist, Rask as the top guys in the league.

So here's a quick experiment, and it's meant for folks in their 30s, because it is the era of goalies that I grew up with...

 

  1. Without a google search, can you name what brand(s) Ken Dryden wore for his 6 Cups? 
  2. What about Grant Fuhr or Billy Smith? 
  3. As a kid growing up in the 90s, how much did these guys' gear choices affect your own, if at all?
  4. Or did you drool over the Koho, Vaughn, and Heaton gear in the Great Skate catalog because that's what Belfour, Roy, Potvin, and Brodeur were wearing?

I'm 28.

  1. cooper from what I know.
  2. I remember the Franklins the most, but the guy wore a few different things.
  3. I was super down with Koho because I loved my first set, but my brother only wanted Vaughn stuff and I got all his hand-me-downs. Once it was up to me I wanted Brian's, Eagle, or TPS items after I grew out of my Velocity 1s (which were great).
  4. I drooled over the designs I saw coming up in the local WHL games I went to see. The TPS X-Lites blew my mind the first time I saw them.
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15 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

And with True now owning the name, do you really expect too much of a difference in manufacturing mindset then when Lefevre were partnered with CCM/RBK?

I've never found Lefevre gear to be outstanding and I'm ready to be proven wrong. But you know me, I'm never wrong. ;)

 

15 hours ago, Max27 said:

I think it might force Lefevre away from their small business Canadian made only mindset that they've adopted since the divorce between them and ccm. 

I don't think the canadian gear is outstanding by any means, but the bars pretty low w the build of the chinese made CCM gear from recent years, so it may just look better by default. I was impressed by the Lefevre stuff I saw in person, though. 

 

On 10/7/2020 at 8:10 PM, Max27 said:

Lefevre has a more respected name in my opinion than True does in my opinion. Not a surprise granted the legacy carried by Lefevre, but they definitely both help each other.

I don't understand this duo though from a manufacturing standpoint. 

Lefevres all about old school, hand making their gear and making anything to leave the shop perfect.

Trues turned to more of a mass production and over the years has put less and less emphasis on the quality and craftsmanship of their skates and sticks. I cant speak on the durability from a first hand standpoint but I have seen countless true skates falling apart very quickly on people and their sticks have had infamously bad durability for people who I have seen use them.
With how much emphasis Lefevre puts on perfection, how they praise themselves on being a small, closed off group of workers who care about quality first, I wonder if that will be put to the side more, or if the mass production running True uses will. It will inevitably from how I see it be their biggest conflict of interest. In my opinion, True is more "in it for the money" than Lefevre is.

That being said, theyre 2 big name companies. They're going to boost each other up a lot. True gains a historic goalie name w tons of attached and inherent success and Lefevre is now under a progressive company on the rise that'll bring them closer to "true" modernity and innovation, something they are against and oppose in their gear designs in a lot of ways.

If these press releases are correct, True acquired Lefevre.  This is different from when The Hockey Company partnered with Lefevre back in the late 90s.  I would not expect Lefevre to have much say in where their gear is being made - they certainly did not when Reebok/CCM moved production over for the Premier 4 model year.

Let's be real, if Lefevre wasn't in it for the money as well, would they have agreed to the acquisition?

The question isn't really about small business/big business mentality so much as having the financial capability to scale their operation. 

Lefevre is a small shop, maybe 20-30 folks.  To give you an idea, Vaughn USA is about the same size, maybe a little bigger. 

True is an entity thousands of employees and revenue streams coming from golf, baseball, lacrosse, as well as hockey - and they already have contract agreements with overseas manufacturing to produce hockey protective gear.

I imagine this acquisition will play out similar to how they ran their skate line after purchasing VH.  Patterns, dyes, and expertise will all go under the True name and in a few years you have a retail ready line (True TF9 Skate)

Going back to goalie specific - if True decides to offer junior, intermediate, and senior price points, these offerings will most certainly be manufactured outside North America due to the cheaper cost of labor.

My biggest question is if pro retail will continue to be serviced alongside pro/junior/college teams out of Quebec, or if pro retail will be moved overseas as well.  It's also possible pro retail floor stock will be done overseas, and pro custom will be done in Quebec (similar to how their skate line is being run)

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7 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

 It's also possible pro retail floor stock will be done overseas, and pro custom will be done in Quebec (similar to how their skate line is being run)

This would make the most sense and allow a justification for a slight upcharge on retail custom orders. 

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On 10/8/2020 at 8:01 AM, Chenner29 said:
  1. Without a google search, can you name what brand(s) Ken Dryden wore for his 6 Cups? 
  2. What about Grant Fuhr or Billy Smith? 

To be fair, with Fuhr doing alot of blow and wearing weird, random brands like Franklin.... I don't think even he remembers what gear he was wearing back then 😄

 

Smitty was always KOHO, from what I remember. Dryden was before even my time

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26 minutes ago, estogoalie said:

To be fair, with Fuhr doing alot of blow and wearing weird, random brands like Franklin.... I don't think even he remembers what gear he was wearing back then 😄

 

Smitty was always KOHO, from what I remember. Dryden was before even my time

Didn’t Fuhr wear John Brown for a good stretch?

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2 hours ago, ser33 said:

IMG_20201009_181645.png

Kinda weird how Vaughn gets slagged on this forum so much ("not innovative", "doesn't promote themselves", etc.), but then is the most worn goalie gear 😄

...just to clarify, what do those stats represent? Leg pads, or all gear? NHL? All pros? Amatures included?

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