Bosport Goalie Masks: Trustworthy?

[rico]

Hello all,

I have a quick question about a Czech goalie mask company: Bosport. They appear to make a good quality mask, but I have never heard of them. Can anyone attest to their quality?

They are on sale at Finnish Goaliemonkey (varustekassi.com) as well as directly through the bosport.cz eshop.

All are relatively inexpensive (likely due to exchange rate), so I wanted to see if anyone knows of these masks.

Thank you!

[sescaro]

Not familiar with these, but Michel at Protechsport - who is revered in most circles for his masks - says on his website that he does not use carbon fiber material as it does not perform well under impact.  I have no idea what that means, but this mask looks like it may be exclusively carbon fiber (i.e., no fiberglass or Kevlar).

[rico]

13 minutes ago, sescaro said:

Not familiar with these, but Michel at Protechsport - who is revered in most circles for his masks - says on his website that he does not use carbon fiber material as it does not perform well under impact.  I have no idea what that means, but this mask looks like it may be exclusively carbon fiber (i.e., no fiberglass or Kevlar).

As an owner of a Protechsport, and having first hand knowledge of Mr. Doganieri's capability as a craftsman and professionalism, that's good information. Thank you.

It's interesting then that another Czech company, makes the same shell in different materials, particularly fiberglass and carbon fiber, and that the carbon fiber is more expensive than the fiberglass version: https://www.varustekassi.com/epages/varustekassi.sf/fi_FI/?ObjectID=3132433&ViewAction=FacetedSearchProducts&SearchString=rey+goalie+mask

Seems like a weight vs. safety tradeoff.

[CJ Boiss]

12 minutes ago, sescaro said:

Not familiar with these, but Michel at Protechsport - who is revered in most circles for his masks - says on his website that he does not use carbon fiber material as it does not perform well under impact.  I have no idea what that means, but this mask looks like it may be exclusively carbon fiber (i.e., no fiberglass or Kevlar).

Carbon fibre is brittle. Things that are brittle are prone to Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly. Not that big of an issue when it's your stick exploding in your hands as you take a slapshot. Pretty serious issue when it's your helmet taking a slapshot from some blue line goober that can't aim.

[sescaro]

I saw where Warrior’s R/F1 Pro and Senior + masks are made with their Minimus Carbon - I’m assuming that is some form of carbon fiber?  I was (am) excited by these masks, but if that’s the case, not sure I want to risk that.  I know their sticks are made of Minimus Carbon, and I’ve had good experiences with those, but that’s a stick and not a helmet.

[CJ Boiss]

24 minutes ago, sescaro said:

I saw where Warrior’s R/F1 Pro and Senior + masks are made with their Minimus Carbon - I’m assuming that is some form of carbon fiber?  I was (am) excited by these masks, but if that’s the case, not sure I want to risk that.  I know their sticks are made of Minimus Carbon, and I’ve had good experiences with those, but that’s a stick and not a helmet.

If carbon fibre is being used in combination with fibreglass and/or Kevlar, I wouldn't think it's much of an issue. Lots of helmet manufacturers use carbon fibre to some extent. It's a great material when you play to its strengths, but I wouldn't trust a helmet whose sole or primary structural component is carbon fibre.

[rico]

2 minutes ago, CJ Boiss said:

If carbon fibre is being used in combination with fibreglass and/or Kevlar, I wouldn't think it's much of an issue. Lots of helmet manufacturers use carbon fibre to some extent. It's a great material when you play to its strengths, but I wouldn't trust a helmet whose sole or primary structural component is carbon fibre.

The top response on this reddit post (which therefore, y'know, take its accuracy with a grain of salt) suggests that you shouldn't trust a mask with any carbon fiber:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hockeygoalies/comments/6zhq3c/best_goalie_mask_to_prevent_concussions/

So if Warrior is using a carbon fiber in their masks...can carbon fiber actually be safe to use? Perhaps only under certain circumstances?

[Chenner29]

Did some googling and came up with this.

http://www.protechcomposites.com/what-is-carbon-fiber/

A couple key points:

Quote

Advantages of Carbon Fiber

Carbon fiber composites stand out from the crowd for several reasons. Here are a few:

• Lightweight – carbon fiber is a low density material with a very high strength to weight ratio

• High tensile strength – one of the strongest of all commercial reinforcing fibers when it comes to tension, carbon fiber is very difficult to stretch or bend

• Low thermal expansion – carbon fiber will expand or contract much less in hot or cold conditions than materials like steel and aluminum

• Exceptional durability – carbon fiber has superior fatigue properties compared to metal, meaning components made of carbon fiber won’t wear out as quickly under the stress of constant use

• Corrosion-resistance – when made with the appropriate resins, carbon fiber is one of the most corrosion-resistant materials available

Disadvantages

• Carbon fiber will break or shatter when it’s compressed, pushed beyond its strength capabilities or exposed to high impact. It will crack if hit by a hammer.  Machining and holes can also create weak areas that may increase its likelihood of breaking.

• Relative cost – carbon fiber is a high quality material with a price to match. While prices have dropped significantly in the past five years, demand has not increased enough to increase the supply substantially. As a result, prices will likely remain the same for the near future.

Note the disadvantage - CF will crack if hit by a hammer.  Also, plenty of holes are drilled into a goalie mask shell, which could make it even weaker.

@rico

Not sure on the pricepoint on these, but I really do not recommend bargain shopping on a mask unless you are getting a previous years' Bauer or CCM pro model on closeout. Even then, I am of the opinion that a boutique brand like Otny, Sportmask, or ProtechSport would serve you better and provide more value than an off-the-shelf retail model. 
Lots of competition in the $400-700 US range if that is your budget, check out the offerings on their respective websites (goalieparts.com, sportmask.ca, protechsport.com).

Edit:

Mask, bag, and dangler are roughly $500 US

[CJ Boiss]

1 hour ago, rico said:

The top response on this reddit post (which therefore, y'know, take its accuracy with a grain of salt) suggests that you shouldn't trust a mask with any carbon fiber:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hockeygoalies/comments/6zhq3c/best_goalie_mask_to_prevent_concussions/

So if Warrior is using a carbon fiber in their masks...can carbon fiber actually be safe to use? Perhaps only under certain circumstances?

Depends on how it's being used.

The strengths of carbon fibre make it a good material to add to an otherwise pro-level Kevlar/fibreglass mask, say along the inside of the mask where its resistance to fatigue and corrosion could prove useful in extending the life of your mask, or sandwiched between layers of Kevlar/fibreglass where its high tensile strength could provide additional resistance to any deformation when the mask is struck without exposing it to any direct impacts by pucks and sticks.

Again, it's not that carbon fibre is an inherently unsafe material, it's that it has very specific strengths and weaknesses that cannot be ignored if you're using it in the construction of a helmet. A mask that is constructed mostly or entirely out of carbon fibre would be unsafe, because it would necessarily be ignoring the weaknesses of the material, but that doesn't mean a mask which includes carbon fibre in any capacity is necessarily unsafe.

[rico]

35 minutes ago, Chenner29 said:

Did some googling and came up with this.

http://www.protechcomposites.com/what-is-carbon-fiber/

A couple key points:

Note the disadvantage - CF will crack if hit by a hammer.  Also, plenty of holes are drilled into a goalie mask shell, which could make it even weaker.

@rico

Not sure on the pricepoint on these, but I really do not recommend bargain shopping on a mask unless you are getting a previous years' Bauer or CCM pro model on closeout. Even then, I am of the opinion that a boutique brand like Otny, Sportmask, or ProtechSport would serve you better and provide more value than an off-the-shelf retail model. 
Lots of competition in the $400-700 US range if that is your budget, check out the offerings on their respective websites (goalieparts.com, sportmask.ca, protechsport.com).

Edit:

Mask, bag, and dangler are roughly $500 US

I agree that you shouldn't bargain hunt on masks. However, I'm more interested in the shell shape and the mask itself, regardless of the price. Well, more like I'm interested in the Rey masks, which happen to be inexpensive relatively, but even if they were more expensive, I'd be interested because I like their look, regardless of the price. It's distinct and unique, but still has obvious influences from other existing designs.

So the real question I have now is, are these masks safe (this is their 100% fiberglass model)? Price is a coincidental concern here. It's more like, can I trust my noggin with this mask, which I think looks cool and is unique (especially in NA)?

I do of course have the same view of the Bosport mask: is it safe, the price notwithstanding?

[rico]

23 minutes ago, CJ Boiss said:

Depends on how it's being used.

The strengths of carbon fibre make it a good material to add to an otherwise pro-level Kevlar/fibreglass mask, say along the inside of the mask where its resistance to fatigue and corrosion could prove useful in extending the life of your mask, or sandwiched between layers of Kevlar/fibreglass where its high tensile strength could provide additional resistance to any deformation when the mask is struck without exposing it to any direct impacts by pucks and sticks.

Again, it's not that carbon fibre is an inherently unsafe material, it's that it has very specific strengths and weaknesses that cannot be ignored if you're using it in the construction of a helmet. A mask that is constructed mostly or entirely out of carbon fibre would be unsafe, because it would necessarily be ignoring the weaknesses of the material, but that doesn't mean a mask which includes carbon fibre in any capacity is necessarily unsafe.

Thank you. That makes sense. I figure we're still evolving our understanding of what materials and built techniques produce a safe mask.

[kohula]

I don´t have Bosport mask, but only Bosport cage. It is the best cage i had in my life. I´ve had it for 2 seasons (play 3 times a week) and no damages or bent wires. However, the Rey company is very famous here in the Czech Republic and lot of semipro and pro goalies wears this brand. It is said, that the fiberglass is more durable than carbon fibre. I had the fiberglass Rey mask (low cost - about $200) for 4 seasons. Material was ok and for beer league it was sufficient. I think, that the better quallity of fiberglass is really good mask for the price. 

[Henkkath]

Support local and buy Wall

[TheWall0211]

Carbon fiber is used to reduce weight on exotic cars.  I like to see that material on the dash, mirrors and other less critical areas.  If you’ve ever seen a carbon fiber hood after a crash, it’s not pretty.  Yes, it’s a strong material but when it’s hit wrong, it shatters.  I would trust carbon fiber over a durable material, but never on its own.  That seems insanely dangerous to me - unless you play house league and are 11 years old.

[rico]

4 hours ago, Henkkath said:

Support local and buy Wall

I have reasons I won't go to Wall or Victory that I won't get into here.

Also, I'm not from Finland.

[rico]

6 hours ago, kohula said:

I don´t have Bosport mask, but only Bosport cage. It is the best cage i had in my life. I´ve had it for 2 seasons (play 3 times a week) and no damages or bent wires. However, the Rey company is very famous here in the Czech Republic and lot of semipro and pro goalies wears this brand. It is said, that the fiberglass is more durable than carbon fibre. I had the fiberglass Rey mask (low cost - about $200) for 4 seasons. Material was ok and for beer league it was sufficient. I think, that the better quallity of fiberglass is really good mask for the price. 

Thank you. This is the information that I was looking for. Do you happen to know whether the pro goalies in the Czech Republic tend to wear the carbon, fiberglass, or carbon-fiberglass masks?

[kohula]

18 hours ago, rico said:

Thank you. This is the information that I was looking for. Do you happen to know whether the pro goalies in the Czech Republic tend to wear the carbon, fiberglass, or carbon-fiberglass masks?

I´m just beer-leaguer, but the Rey company says, that the fiberglass is the most popular option. I have mask which is fiberglass copy of Bauer NME 10 with carbon fiber on chin and forehead and I love it. It is made also in the Czech Republic by one skillfull guy. Anyway, I mean, that the fiberglass is the material I would choose if I was you.

[Korppi32]

I think carbon model is not 100% carbon , it is still fiberglass with carbon pieces in forehead etc. I had two carbon REY masks and I have nothing negative to say about shells. But foams were horrible, paint cracked, cages bent very easily and cage sit too close to shell. It is hard to find right new cage because feels like they just take some cage and drill a holes when making a mask. This was like five years ago.

[rico]

8 hours ago, kohula said:

I´m just beer-leaguer, but the Rey company says, that the fiberglass is the most popular option. I have mask which is fiberglass copy of Bauer NME 10 with carbon fiber on chin and forehead and I love it. It is made also in the Czech Republic by one skillfull guy. Anyway, I mean, that the fiberglass is the material I would choose if I was you.

Thank you. It's interesting to hear that the least expensive model of mask is likely seeing use at the highest levels.

[rico]

7 hours ago, Korppi32 said:

I think carbon model is not 100% carbon , it is still fiberglass with carbon pieces in forehead etc. I had two carbon REY masks and I have nothing negative to say about shells. But foams were horrible, paint cracked, cages bent very easily and cage sit too close to shell. It is hard to find right new cage because feels like they just take some cage and drill a holes when making a mask. This was like five years ago.

That information about the other issues with it and the difficulty with cage replacement is very helpful. This will help with decision making, especially when it comes to the longevity of the mask.