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seagoal
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4 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

The good things about being the last resort is that there are zero expectations on your end lol.

Glad you played well though. The worst is when the guy walking into the room to ask is asking for a 1030 time slot

Ha, I was a 10:20 game.

Toe ties are the boundary for me.  Once my skates are off, hell no.  No chance of me playing.

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1 minute ago, seagoal said:

Boom.  Post- 2-hockeys bliss.

I'm at a steakhouse not far from the training center. 

If Chris Driedger walks in here I'm totally schoolgirling him.  Just sayin'.

 

20210722_122835.jpg

That glass is too full considering how thirsty you are right now.

Edited by coopaloop1234
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7 minutes ago, seagoal said:

Boom.  Post- 2-hockeys bliss.

I'm at a steakhouse not far from the training center. 

If Chris Driedger walks in here I'm totally schoolgirling him.  Just sayin'.

 

20210722_122835.jpg

Does this mean he was/is your pick for the gorgeous player? He is a good looking man.

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1 minute ago, chile57 said:

Does this mean he was/is your pick for the gorgeous player? He is a good looking man.

I find no disagreement with your assessment.

He's a Vaughn goalie too, so......

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On 7/20/2021 at 10:37 AM, coopaloop1234 said:

I'm assuming games have a poor flow to them and you're often left with periods of no action?

Sprinkle in some shooters who's shots are quite below your standard and will fool you with how terrible they are?

Sounds familiar.

 

On 7/20/2021 at 10:52 AM, seagoal said:

I think only the 9-1 game I was relaxed and comfortable the whole time without any edge or intensity.  They've all been fun, to be honest. The 1 bad goal was game 1 or 2 and I blame the new red gear, ha.  It was a functionality error on my part, still getting used to the stuff.

Many of our games were pretty tight until the 3rd, thankfully, so they've stayed intense and edgy for me. 

I know what you mean though with the last point.  I was talking to a new goalie in our league recently about how if you are say a div 4 goalie, playing in div 5 is more difficult than playing in div 3.  It's a thing, for sure.

Catching up on some exchanges here, and this one caught my eye as there's some very interesting science behind it related to how we perceive game speed, and I'd like to share.  I think we can all agree it's easier to play at the correct level or higher, but it's really difficult to play down.  There's numerous factors like broken plays, off-speed shots/passes, and just a general feeling of "you shouldn't be there..."

Been working out with a coach who is studying sports psychology, also played D1 and minor pro hockey and we chatted about this subject.  Based on what he is learning, it is possible for our minds to process games faster ("controlled processing" vs "automatic processing").  Novices tend to be more deliberate with their thoughts and movements (thus, "controlled processing") whereas a high end athlete can do most of these things automatically ("automatic processing"). 

A pro athlete in their given sport can recognize and fluently anticipate and adapt to plays much faster than us regular humans due to superior pattern recognition and physical literacy.

When you "play down" the plays are much more deliberate, shooters have more time with the puck, and due to this we tend to subconsciously overthink and over analyze what's going on in front of us (again, goes back to the principle of "controlled processing" vs "automatic processing" - we switch to controlled processing when the game is slower). We can also overestimate our own abilities and get in our own heads a bit, believing we should take over the game instead of focusing on what makes us efficient at the job in the first place (positioning, skating).  Shot flight paths are not as predictable due to the lower skill levels in skating/shooting mechanics.

That's not to say there isn't stuff we can work on when the pace is slow, focus on skating, getting clean reads, beating passes on your feet, etc.

This all lines up with a lot of what Steve McKichan preaches (and I'm going to paraphrase here) that shots from within the hash at the pro level are impossible to react to.  Goalies at that level are getting reads off the shooter's body language and identifying patterns to figure out where the shot is being placed.

So yay science

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1 hour ago, Chenner29 said:

So yay science

I like your description of the difference between automatic and controlled processing, and I've definitely found this to be true when playing a division lower. Playing against guys that can really shoot, their shots get more "predictable" as its like a batter facing only fastballs, and all you have to do is focus on the strike zone. Playing down a level, my most feared shot was a shot from the point because that puck has a mind of its' own. We read the shot off the stick as one thing, but the puck might dip, come off slower than we think, or do a million other things. Our body's motor program is not adjusted to the different pace, and thats why you slowly improve as the game goes on. 

Yay science!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Chenner29 said:

 

Catching up on some exchanges here, and this one caught my eye as there's some very interesting science behind it related to how we perceive game speed, and I'd like to share.  I think we can all agree it's easier to play at the correct level or higher, but it's really difficult to play down.  There's numerous factors like broken plays, off-speed shots/passes, and just a general feeling of "you shouldn't be there..."

Been working out with a coach who is studying sports psychology, also played D1 and minor pro hockey and we chatted about this subject.  Based on what he is learning, it is possible for our minds to process games faster ("controlled processing" vs "automatic processing").  Novices tend to be more deliberate with their thoughts and movements (thus, "controlled processing") whereas a high end athlete can do most of these things automatically ("automatic processing"). 

A pro athlete in their given sport can recognize and fluently anticipate and adapt to plays much faster than us regular humans due to superior pattern recognition and physical literacy.

When you "play down" the plays are much more deliberate, shooters have more time with the puck, and due to this we tend to subconsciously overthink and over analyze what's going on in front of us (again, goes back to the principle of "controlled processing" vs "automatic processing" - we switch to controlled processing when the game is slower). We can also overestimate our own abilities and get in our own heads a bit, believing we should take over the game instead of focusing on what makes us efficient at the job in the first place (positioning, skating).  Shot flight paths are not as predictable due to the lower skill levels in skating/shooting mechanics.

That's not to say there isn't stuff we can work on when the pace is slow, focus on skating, getting clean reads, beating passes on your feet, etc.

This all lines up with a lot of what Steve McKichan preaches (and I'm going to paraphrase here) that shots from within the hash at the pro level are impossible to react to.  Goalies at that level are getting reads off the shooter's body language and identifying patterns to figure out where the shot is being placed.

So yay science

Man I really appreciate this post.  This is the kind of stuff that puts my brain in overdrive and excites me.

A lot of what you say resonates with me, for sure.   I've framed "playing down" as "out-goalieing myself" or "thinking myself out of the game." I think we get conditioned to a certain level of play that includes speed, skill, predictability, anticipation, body mechanics, muscle memory, etc.  So when we "play down" it's like our brains and our bodies are ill-equipped to deal with the specific set of information available to us because we are conditioned otherwise.

How often do goalies play down thinking shutout and then get rocked for a high number of goals? I'd say it's very common.  One piece of this you did not touch on, as you focused more on the other team and not our own,  is that at higher levels our team is "filtering" out a lot more stuff than is the case at lower levels.   Higher levels of play in front of us on our own team means the while the shots coming our way might be faster or harder and more difficult to handle, the types of scenarios from which they develop are arguable more narrow than they are at lower levels; there is a certain formulaic set of patterns, if you will, at higher level that we'll see as goalies that are not there at lower levels, in other words lower levels are more random and erratic and chaotic so as goalies getting dialed in to that when "playing down" is very difficult.

I think about this stuff A LOT as I'm on 2 teams currently at different levels and I am far more effective and successful on my higher team.  I told a lower level teammate recently that "I have no doubts I am a good goalie and I have trust in my ability, I just can't quite figure out how to be an effective goalie for this team quite yet."  I think that sums it up nicely.

Thanks for posting this Chenner.

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1 minute ago, insertnamehere said:

There's a Warrior G5 setup in sport gold and perfect sizing for me on GGSU that I'm soooo tempted to buy, but do I really need a new set?

"Need" is a very strong word frowned upon on this forum.  We don't like it.  Please rephrase the question.   Go. 

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Just now, seagoal said:

"Need" is a very strong word frowned upon on this forum.  We don't like it.  Please rephrase the question.   Go. 

There's a Warrior G5 setup in sport gold and perfect sizing for me on GGSU that I'm soooo tempted to buy, but how do I justify the purchase to my wife?

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1 minute ago, insertnamehere said:

There's a Warrior G5 setup in sport gold and perfect sizing for me on GGSU that I'm soooo tempted to buy, but how do I justify the purchase to my wife?

ha!  I literally cried a little bit laughing.  Atta boy. 

And I have no idea BUT you should try. 

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40 minutes ago, insertnamehere said:

There's a Warrior G5 setup in sport gold and perfect sizing for me on GGSU that I'm soooo tempted to buy, but how do I justify the purchase to my wife?

Sometimes it’s better to ask for forgiveness than permission 

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2 hours ago, dretti33 said:

I like your description of the difference between automatic and controlled processing, and I've definitely found this to be true when playing a division lower. Playing against guys that can really shoot, their shots get more "predictable" as its like a batter facing only fastballs, and all you have to do is focus on the strike zone. Playing down a level, my most feared shot was a shot from the point because that puck has a mind of its' own. We read the shot off the stick as one thing, but the puck might dip, come off slower than we think, or do a million other things. Our body's motor program is not adjusted to the different pace, and thats why you slowly improve as the game goes on. 

Yay science!

Yes, also anything from the slot tends to bobble and just be very unpredictable.

2 hours ago, seagoal said:

 

How often do goalies play down thinking shutout and then get rocked for a high number of goals? I'd say it's very common.  One piece of this you did not touch on, as you focused more on the other team and not our own,  is that at higher levels our team is "filtering" out a lot more stuff than is the case at lower levels.   Higher levels of play in front of us on our own team means the while the shots coming our way might be faster or harder and more difficult to handle, the types of scenarios from which they develop are arguable more narrow than they are at lower levels; there is a certain formulaic set of patterns, if you will, at higher level that we'll see as goalies that are not there at lower levels, in other words lower levels are more random and erratic and chaotic so as goalies getting dialed in to that when "playing down" is very difficult.

I think about this stuff A LOT as I'm on 2 teams currently at different levels and I am far more effective and successful on my higher team.  I told a lower level teammate recently that "I have no doubts I am a good goalie and I have trust in my ability, I just can't quite figure out how to be an effective goalie for this team quite yet."  I think that sums it up nicely.

Thanks for posting this Chenner.

Yes, team in front of you is a huge factor as well! I've had to learn how to get out of my own head and distance myself from the shots/scoreboard.  That's honestly one of the hardest things I've had to learn since aging out of travel hockey 16 years ago (!) and one I'm sad to say I'm finally nailing down.

My local rink ranges from Gold (ex Junior, NCAA, Pro) to Tin Can (beginner).  I'm playing in Silver and 35+ this season (my first in "old man league")

The coverage in front of me is (mostly) great in Silver - I'm seeing shooters funneled to the bad or dead angles, slot coverage is mostly adequate (but it's beer league still so lol)...while in 35+ I get a lot more "random bullshit go" plays develop in front of me.

Forecheck patterns in Silver are routine as these are primarily folks who grew up playing organized hockey.  As there are more or less established forcheck patterns (cycle, dump n chase, point man set up, etc).

Where it starts getting weird is some of the shit that happens in 35+. 
Broken plays where my D gets a stick/shin/skate on a pass or shot but can't control it afterwards, he's doing pirouettes trying to find it BUT there's a random forechecker that's somehow in perfect position just outside the left post to pick it up and jam it off the post and in... 
A perfect centering pass from a dead angle where the passer's stick angle and body language clearly indicates he's trying rim it behind the net (like why are you rimming it in the first place), but somehow fumbles its way into the slot...or he does actually rim it but it doesn't have enough oompf behind it and it pops off the glass, over the net into the slot...
What about those weak shots that gently caress your jersey and now you don't know where the hell it is because you didn't feel it hit you but now it's in the slot and oh fuck my defenseman is in the corner saying hi to his kids that came to watch him play

Etc.

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11 minutes ago, Chenner29 said:

Yes, also anything from the slot tends to bobble and just be very unpredictable.

Yes, team in front of you is a huge factor as well! I've had to learn how to get out of my own head and distance myself from the shots/scoreboard.  That's honestly one of the hardest things I've had to learn since aging out of travel hockey 16 years ago (!) and one I'm sad to say I'm finally nailing down.

My local rink ranges from Gold (ex Junior, NCAA, Pro) to Tin Can (beginner).  I'm playing in Silver and 35+ this season (my first in "old man league")

The coverage in front of me is (mostly) great in Silver - I'm seeing shooters funneled to the bad or dead angles, slot coverage is mostly adequate (but it's beer league still so lol)...while in 35+ I get a lot more "random bullshit go" plays develop in front of me.

Forecheck patterns in Silver are routine as these are primarily folks who grew up playing organized hockey.  As there are more or less established forcheck patterns (cycle, dump n chase, point man set up, etc).

Where it starts getting weird is some of the shit that happens in 35+. 
Broken plays where my D gets a stick/shin/skate on a pass or shot but can't control it afterwards, he's doing pirouettes trying to find it BUT there's a random forechecker that's somehow in perfect position just outside the left post to pick it up and jam it off the post and in... 
A perfect centering pass from a dead angle where the passer's stick angle and body language clearly indicates he's trying rim it behind the net (like why are you rimming it in the first place), but somehow fumbles its way into the slot...or he does actually rim it but it doesn't have enough oompf behind it and it pops off the glass, over the net into the slot...
What about those weak shots that gently caress your jersey and now you don't know where the hell it is because you didn't feel it hit you but now it's in the slot and oh fuck my defenseman is in the corner saying hi to his kids that came to watch him play

Etc.

Hell yeah man.  For me I'm playing both in div 4/5 and then 40+ and that's my comparable tale, for sure.

I do a lot of verbal self-talk when playing.  I routinely tell myself "the score doesn't matter, the shots don't matter, the hockey in front of you doesn't matter.  What matters is the next shot and the most important save you'll make tonight is the next one.  Find a way to be effective."

I have Stay Present, Stay Calm painted on my masks, too.

This is all learned psychological tactics over the years.  I am much more concened with being effective these days rather than "good."

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26 minutes ago, motowngoalie said:

Yzerman moves up and takes Cossa in the draft tonight. GIVE ME ALL THE GOALIES.

I indirectly called the pick yesterday, saying the 22nd pick would go to Cossa (used it to move up)! Excited for the young guy and see where his career goes

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On 7/23/2021 at 7:33 PM, dretti33 said:

I indirectly called the pick yesterday, saying the 22nd pick would go to Cossa (used it to move up)! Excited for the young guy and see where his career goes

Also, a complete Oilers move trying to trade a pick thinking Minnesota wouldn't pick Wallstedt, and then they re-sign Smith for 2 years. LOL

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