Skate sharpening thread

[dstew29]

1 minute ago, Felix said:

Wow. Exactly the answer I wanted! Very interesting that you did ended up getting flatter hollow. Did you profiling your skates or only sharpening?

I use the regular SS steps that come stock and yes, I had both sets profiled to a dual radius 20' / 32'. That seemed to be working good but I actually just got a new profile done using a prosharp - the "goalie SAM". We bunch of the local rinks have been shut down for the last few weeks due to a storm / power outage so I haven't been able to test them out yet. Will report back once I can get a few skates in.

[Teezle]

7 minutes ago, dstew29 said:

I can't speak to the custom asymmetrical grinds you were getting (#s 1 & 2), but for me, switching to True 1-piece made me go FLATTER than my usual preferred hollow (less energy loss all around vs riveted holders).

I was getting 1/2" hollow on my old Graf w/ cowlings and went to 11/16" hollow on True 1-piece (trust me, I really dialed it in - tried 1/2", 5/8", 3/4", etc.). 11/16" just seemed to give me the preferred bite out of the box with the longest life between sharpens.

Either way, the best general rule of thumb I heard with the 1-piece was go flatter by a 3/ to 4/16ths vs your usual hollow. Mine happened to be 3/16ths flatter.

I think this is the case going from any traditional cowling skate to a modern no-cowling one. I was in Grafs - super comfortable skate, but their stock steel was very soft and I used to get my skates done at 3/8". Now I'm in a True 2-piece and after some experimentation, I use a 17/32" hollow on my skates. The increase in energy transfer to your blade is really noticeable!  

[Puckstopper]

I concur with going flatter.   I used 3/8ths or 7/16ths on my old Bauer skates and dropped to 1/2" on my True's right off the jump.   For profiling I mail my blades to NoIcing Sports in Delaware and have started using and liking their triple (15',20',28') radius.  Previously I was using the double radius and I feel like the triple is absolutely worth the extra money for the extra mobility it offers.

[Felix]

On 8/21/2020 at 9:15 PM, dstew29 said:

I use the regular SS steps that come stock and yes, I had both sets profiled to a dual radius 20' / 32'. That seemed to be working good but I actually just got a new profile done using a prosharp - the "goalie SAM". We bunch of the local rinks have been shut down for the last few weeks due to a storm / power outage so I haven't been able to test them out yet. Will report back once I can get a few skates in.

I've checked around all profiles and the Prosharp Goalie Sam seems be good for me. Do this profile prefer some specific rear/heel or front/toe as push position when pads are down on ice?

On 8/21/2020 at 9:17 PM, Puckstopper said:

I concur with going flatter.   I used 3/8ths or 7/16ths on my old Bauer skates and dropped to 1/2" on my True's right off the jump.   For profiling I mail my blades to NoIcing Sports in Delaware and have started using and liking their triple (15',20',28') radius.  Previously I was using the double radius and I feel like the triple is absolutely worth the extra money for the extra mobility it offers.

Whats different between yours 15',20',28' and the Goalie SAM 10',50,27'. I got information from Prosharp website.

The SAM doesn't have any quatation mark but your profile has. 

[Puckstopper]

The Goalie SAM profile has a flat spot in the middle, which is what the 50 denotes.  I tried Goalie SAM with my Tydan blades a couple years ago and didn't love it.   It was only OK for me.   I've tried a bunch of profiles and what I've liked from favorite to least favorite are:

15/20/28 - NoIcing

24/28 - NoIcing

Goalie SAM - Tydan

17/28 - NoIcing

28' Stock radius

30'  Peranis

While I like being mobile while skating, I think the really short front section on the 17/28 and the Goalie SAM was TOO short for me to really grab an edge and move across while down.  On the other hand, after trying a shorter radius up front I could never go back to stock or even flatter.  Regardless, almost anything is better than that stock profile that comes on skates.  If Goalie SAM was my only option I'd find a way to make it work!

[Chenner29]

4 hours ago, Felix said:

I've checked around all profiles and the Prosharp Goalie Sam seems be good for me. Do this profile prefer some specific rear/heel or front/toe as push position when pads are down on ice?

Whats different between yours 15',20',28' and the Goalie SAM 10',50,27'. I got information from Prosharp website.

The SAM doesn't have any quatation mark but your profile has. 

Goalie SAM is a 50mm flat spot in the center of the blade, not to be confused with a radius. 

[DL42]

its funny how everyone can use SAM profile no matter the weight height size skill level makes u wonder who is pushing this and why it is being pushed so hard.  Extra revenue maybe with little expertise., hey skate shop we got a catch all template that goalie will like, we will sell it to you and u push it to the consumer for $50 or so,   No experience needed , just throw the template on and they will like it.  if they ask for any adjustment, just tell them this is it.

[ArdeFIN]

This topic was interesting from the beginning. Would be super cool if someone had the possibility to test similar sets of blades with different edges in a subsequent test run to get the real difference. How does the shuffle go, benefits on kicking around in BF etc. This sharpening has the crucial balance in between stance/shuffle moves and BF. And it's about the playing style involved here too.

Then we have the profile. How much does different profiles have to do with goaltending? I came from Bauer Vapor player skates with no profiling and goalie skates were easily chosen Vapor in the same size and fits well. In the first few ices as goalie I remember it was sooo difficult to just skate around because of the flat and long blade. I got used to it pretty quickly as being in front of the goal, skating is not that much of a matter. But I always wanted to have move curved profile.

Then I got new blades with a lot steeper curve and how I love those. Oh yeah! But I didn't feel any change playing in goalie position, still have the (moderate) kicks and grip, can shuffle around, have equal balance in stance ie. Well I'm a lot more confident going out of crease to play that loose puck so a little change there.

[Felix]

7 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

Goalie SAM is a 50mm flat spot in the center of the blade, not to be confused with a radius. 

So basically the SAM has a little bit more stability because of the 50mm flat spot at center?

If I'm remember correct I didn't like the stock profile on my old Bauer Elite because lack of movement at some positions, too way much stability. I couldn't push away from the post and get a C-grip with my skates toe to get back at same position/post. With a pair of player skate I could do this C-grip.

[Puckstopper]

My understanding is that the idea behind the SAM is to give you a short front radius for mobility, the flat spot is for cross-crease movement and the 27' profile on the back is for a combination of mobility and strong pushes cross crease.

[dstew29]

On 8/25/2020 at 7:54 AM, Puckstopper said:

My understanding is that the idea behind the SAM is to give you a short front radius for mobility, the flat spot is for cross-crease movement and the 27' profile on the back is for a combination of mobility and strong pushes cross crease.

On 8/24/2020 at 8:28 PM, DL42 said:

its funny how everyone can use SAM profile no matter the weight height size skill level makes u wonder who is pushing this and why it is being pushed so hard.  Extra revenue maybe with little expertise., hey skate shop we got a catch all template that goalie will like, we will sell it to you and u push it to the consumer for $50 or so,   No experience needed , just throw the template on and they will like it.  if they ask for any adjustment, just tell them this is it.

I finally got back on the ice last night - competitive men's league scrimmage - so I have only one skate so far in the SAM profile. For reference again, I'm coming from profiled step steel for True 1 piece on No Icing 20/32 dual radius per above, which I skated on for about a year / year and half.

First impressions are VERY good. First lap around the ice felt a little weird (which I fully expected would be the case) and mostly due to the flat section in the middle. I guess the best way to describe it was that I was getting the feeling of a dull edge/no bite at certain times due to the flatness of that section as my weight transferred around. Once I stretched out and got into the crease to move around a bit, I noticed a few big improvements right away:

1. Lateral pushes were way more efficient/effective. They felt easier due to that same gliding feeling but I never felt like I couldn't dig in to slow that down and never felt like the initial push lacked the edge/bite needed to get my momentum going.

2. Butterfly pushes and recoveries from butterfly were also extremely efficient. Never lost an edge or felt like I needed to angle my skate a certain way to get the most energy transfer. Just made moves as needed without even thinking about compensating for the new profile. It just worked with my game/technique.

3.One other thing that I was not happy with in my old profile was getting into that deep crouch / pre-shot set position that is obviously a major must have for all of us. My last profile also had a "Medium forward pitch" meaning, the steel was profiled / grinded to have a slight pitch forward from heel of the steel to the toe (I think most goalie boots and holders will also give you this slight pitch effect but this was recommended for the steel as well). The SAM profile I got was just standard/neutral or "no pitch". I felt like I couldn't easily glide into a deeper pre-shot crouch because my skate were digging in too much. Last night I felt like this was much easier for me shuffle and track with the shooter to my left or right a little if they were moving laterally before I crouched for the shot.

Hopefully that helps some. And I agree with @ArdeFIN above, I wish there was a way to get universal feedback on profiles and hollows that everyone could find helpful to their own setups. Body types, style of play, equipment makes this hard to do but this is just my experience as I've tried stock, a dual profile and now the prosharp/SAM. I'm going to give it one more skate and if I get similar results to last night I'll be sending in my second set to Goalieparts.com to get the same treatment.

[Chenner29]

8 hours ago, Felix said:

So basically the SAM has a little bit more stability because of the 50mm flat spot at center?

If I'm remember correct I didn't like the stock profile on my old Bauer Elite because lack of movement at some positions, too way much stability. I couldn't push away from the post and get a C-grip with my skates toe to get back at same position/post. With a pair of player skate I could do this C-grip.

50mm is tiny, 5cm or just under 2".

32 minutes ago, dstew29 said:

First impressions are VERY good. First lap around the ice felt a little weird (which I fully expected would be the case) and mostly due to the flat section in the middle. I guess the best way to describe it was that I was getting the feeling of a dull edge/no bite at certain times due to the flatness of that section as my weight transferred around. Once I stretched out and got into the crease to move around a bit, I noticed a few big improvements right away:

I wanna say what you are experiencing is better glide because (I'm guessing) you were in forward motion with weight on the 50mm flat section of the blade

7 minutes ago, dstew29 said:

3.One other thing that I was not happy with in my old profile was getting into that deep crouch / pre-shot set position that is obviously a major must have for all of us. My last profile also had a "Medium forward pitch" meaning, the steel was profiled / grinded to have a slight pitch forward from heel of the steel to the toe (I think most goalie boots and holders will also give you this slight pitch effect but this was recommended for the steel as well). The SAM profile I got was just standard/neutral or "no pitch". I felt like I couldn't easily glide into a deeper pre-shot crouch because my skate were digging in too much. Last night I felt like this was much easier for me shuffle and track with the shooter to my left or right a little if they were moving laterally before I crouched for the shot.

Funny enough, I found a new local skate guy and gave him my steel to work on.  I picked them up last night and it turns out we know a lot of the same folks.

I've been getting free sharpenings from the local pro shop as I know most of the guys there.  He showed me that the edges were misaligned on one of my runners (outside edge higher than inside).  My other runner was completely flat in the back half. 

I've learned a little bit talking to skate guys over the years, but I learned a ton from this guy.

My understanding breaks down as such:

1. There are several different types of ProSharp templates - he had about a dozen stored on his machine.
2. Templates resemble steel rulers with different radii cut out at the bottom (see below)
3. Each template also has a center point, which typically aligns with the center line on your steel.
4. This center point is generally the "highest" (when looking at steel from the bottom up)
5. In order to achieve a forward pitch, the profile template is brought back towards the heel of the steel.  The exact amount of this changes depending on how much pitch is requested.

[dstew29]

2 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

50mm is tiny, 5cm or just under 2".

I wanna say what you are experiencing is better glide because (I'm guessing) you were in forward motion with weight on the 50mm flat section of the blade

Funny enough, I found a new local skate guy and gave him my steel to work on.  I picked them up last night and it turns out we know a lot of the same folks.

I've been getting free sharpenings from the local pro shop as I know most of the guys there.  He showed me that the edges were misaligned on one of my runners (outside edge higher than inside).  My other runner was completely flat in the back half. 

I've learned a little bit talking to skate guys over the years, but I learned a ton from this guy.

My understanding breaks down as such:

1. There are several different types of ProSharp templates - he had about a dozen stored on his machine.
2. Templates resemble steel rulers with different radii cut out at the bottom (see below)
3. Each template also has a center point, which typically aligns with the center line on your steel.
4. This center point is generally the "highest" (when looking at steel from the bottom up)
5. In order to achieve a forward pitch, the profile template is brought back towards the heel of the steel.  The exact amount of this changes depending on how much pitch is requested.

Exactly right - well said. In my case, my previous profiler recommended shifting the "center point" a bit towards the heel of the runner which would rock your weight / center of gravity forward a bit. The further back they shift that point, the more aggressive your forward lean would be.

For me so far, I much prefer a true center point on the profile - which is further enhanced on the SAM with the ~2" extended flat section.

[dstew29]

On 8/25/2020 at 11:52 AM, dstew29 said:

I'm going to give it one more skate and if I get similar results to last night I'll be sending in my second set to Goalieparts.com to get the same treatment.

Got another fast scrimmage in with the SAM profile and I'm 100% sold versus anything else I've tried to date. For me at least, the other standard dual profiles I've tried just made it somewhat difficult to shuffle well and move laterally. I always felt like my edges were digging in too much and I never was able to get into a good groove where you almost feel like you're gliding and fluid with lateral shuffles, etc. The flat middle section is really the game changer in this department as it's just enough to get that lower friction movement in your shuffles.

The prosharp offers a bunch of goalie profiles - and to be honest I sort of stumbled across this profile after reading a few times that pro goalies have used it or a version of the SAM. Others could be better for some of you but this one is spot on for what I've been looking for and couldn't be happier.

[Quadzilla32]

hey guys, 

just got some new step runners and need to get them sharpened. I have read mixed things as far as whether or not I need to get cross grinding done on them for the first sharpening or just get my usual hollow? They are blacksteel if that adds anything. 
 

as far as I Understand cross grinding just is for prepping  the runners for the first sharpen by removing any imperfections and making sure the profile is what you want. However, I thought the whole big deal about step is the quality of the steel so I’m guessing they are pretty spot on as far as profile and just need to be sharpened. 

[dstew29]

14 hours ago, Quadzilla32 said:

hey guys, 

just got some new step runners and need to get them sharpened. I have read mixed things as far as whether or not I need to get cross grinding done on them for the first sharpening or just get my usual hollow? They are blacksteel if that adds anything. 
 

as far as I Understand cross grinding just is for prepping  the runners for the first sharpen by removing any imperfections and making sure the profile is what you want. However, I thought the whole big deal about step is the quality of the steel so I’m guessing they are pretty spot on as far as profile and just need to be sharpened. 

Do you mean ‘blade matching’ right? Probably good to ask them to check just in case. I’m sure even Step blades could be slightly different from factory.

If you’re happy with the relatively flat stock “profile” then yeah just hollow after they’re matched I would think...

 

[Quadzilla32]

3 minutes ago, dstew29 said:

Do you mean ‘blade matching’ right? Probably good to ask them to check just in case. I’m sure even Step blades could be slightly different from factory.

If you’re happy with the relatively flat stock “profile” then yeah just hollow after they’re matched I would think...

 

Thank you, I just want to be sure my LHS doesn’t mess them up, I do not have full confidence in some of the guys who do the sharpening. 

[Felix]

Goalie SAM is very good! I now can use my skate skills combined with stability. I also feel more grip at toe.

[Chenner29]

On 9/16/2020 at 11:32 AM, Quadzilla32 said:

Thank you, I just want to be sure my LHS doesn’t mess them up, I do not have full confidence in some of the guys who do the sharpening. 

Steel ain’t cheap. If you don’t trust your local guys, I would send them out to get done correctly. 

[RichMan]

Coming back here to find some understanding. The pic below shows your generic approach to the different types of sharpens you can get, but it lacks the mention or question if you are on 4mm or 3mm blades. It will affect your choice.

And there is no mention either of different profiles. Most of you speak of SAM, mine are J SPRY, don't know if there are more. Again, will the choice be different depending on the blade's width?

Is there a graph or pic like above that is specified for each of the 4mm or 3mm?

[mr_shifty1982]

11 hours ago, RichMan said:

Coming back here to find some understanding. The pic below shows your generic approach to the different types of sharpens you can get, but it lacks the mention or question if you are on 4mm or 3mm blades. It will affect your choice.

And there is no mention either of different profiles. Most of you speak of SAM, mine are J SPRY, don't know if there are more. Again, will the choice be different depending on the blade's width?

Is there a graph or pic like above that is specified for each of the 4mm or 3mm?

Very good mention, I had to go 1/2 inch on the 3mm for bite, where the 1/2 on the 4mm would be way too much bite.  

[RichMan]

14 hours ago, mr_shifty1982 said:

Very good mention, I had to go 1/2 inch on the 3mm for bite, where the 1/2 on the 4mm would be way too much bite.  

I do admit that it is confusing and companies or stores don't prepare you or educate you on the difference.

[mr_shifty1982]

7 hours ago, RichMan said:

I do admit that it is confusing and companies or stores don't prepare you or educate you on the difference.

I know right? Had to learn it the hard way lol but I kept the 4mm. 

[RichMan]

14 hours ago, mr_shifty1982 said:

I know right? Had to learn it the hard way lol but I kept the 4mm. 

Still trying to learn and I went back to a 4mm and am much happier with that.

[Chenner29]

On 10/17/2021 at 6:10 AM, RichMan said:

Coming back here to find some understanding. The pic below shows your generic approach to the different types of sharpens you can get, but it lacks the mention or question if you are on 4mm or 3mm blades. It will affect your choice.

And there is no mention either of different profiles. Most of you speak of SAM, mine are J SPRY, don't know if there are more. Again, will the choice be different depending on the blade's width?

Is there a graph or pic like above that is specified for each of the 4mm or 3mm?

Profiling is probably deserving of its own thread, but since you asked it here...

When talking profiles, it's a lot like sharpening in that you're looking to balance a performance tradeoff.

• With sharpening, you're balancing glide vs bite
• With profiling, you're balancing stability vs agility

Take a stock goalie radius (27', 28', 30') - the larger the number, the flatter the feel.  To give you some further context, players typically play within the 8', 9', 11' range.
Flatter is better for stability and pushing.  Rounder is better for agility and pivots.  You're basically balancing lengthwise on a blade of the configured radius; picture the line L as the ice.

A combination radius attempts to give you a little bit of both worlds.  I believe the SAM and SPRY are similar profiles, 10' short radius in the front for agility, flat spot in the center for stability, and a 28' back blade to start your push.  While the SAM carries a 50mm flat spot in the middle, the SPRY uses a CAG. 

The principle behind a CAG is about grinding out a flat spot in the steel for stability and bite.  The flatter the blade is, the more surface area is engaged with the ice, so you can go with a shallower hollow, get better glide, and burn less energy to move forward and backward.  C-cuts and lateral pushes on a CAG are unreal.  The flip side to this is how your agility game translates.  Picture a play going high to low along the boards.  You pivot to transition into the post, but that pivot becomes more challenging the flatter your steel is. 

Quick byte on CAG designations. 
CAG is not a profile, its an engineered flat spot.  So you can have a regular blade profile and throw a CAG on top to finish.  Jonathan Quick supposedly uses a 60/120 CAG which means 60mm in front of blade center is flat; 120mm overall, which translates to about 4.7" of blade flat.  You can move the CAG forward or backward based on your preferences, so you could go 65/120 which means 65mm in front of the center line is flat.

To give you some personal experience, I've tried below on 4mm Step steel in the last 18 months

• SAM, 5/8" ROH:
  I'm a toe pusher and the 10' left a lot to be desired.  I did like cruising around on the 50mm flat center, so I took it to the next level on the next setting.
• 27' + 60/120 CAG, 3/4" ROH: 
  Almost tripled the amount of flat on the blade.  Loved the lateral pushes.  I was doing a lot of shooter tutoring for skater lessons during COVID when I had this on my steel.  90% of the time, I was C-cutting to grab angle and depth and lateral pushing into a rebound, and IMO it is a great setup for this.  Once beer league started again, I realized how much it was affecting my transition game and went to something shorter.
• 24/28', 5/8" ROH:
  (I think some places call this a Goalie WIN):  Currently on this one, I like the agility and bite I get off toe pushes in the front.  I'm thinking of adding a shorter CAG in the center just to get a little more stability.

So the TLDR on all this: profiles are just as personal as hollows; you need to pick one for your game and the way you skate. 

• Think about how you load and push and where you want agility and where you want stability. 
• When you transition, do you plant your outside leg, inside leg, or rotate on your center axis? 
• Are you a full blade, back blade, mid blade, or toe pick when you push off your stance?  What about when you're down?
• Do you feel flat on your feet or do you want to be more on the balls of your feet?  You can have the skate tech lean the steel forward to put you more front loaded

Here are some interesting articles if you want to read more.

https://theathletic.com/1235541/2019/10/15/steel-psychos-and-box-guys-inside-the-rapidly-evolving-world-of-nhl-skate-blades/

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article244671327.html