Big vs Small

[motowngoalie]

I didn't vote because I'm pretty torn on this topic. I definitely try to support small business/companies whenever possible, but I'm also a staunch Warrior user. 

I get the anti-corporate sentiment against Bauer, CCM, etc. however I think that does a disservice to some of the people inside those companies. We basically play a sport within a sport, and whoever is designing/creating gear for (especially) Bauer and Warrior or CCM is clearly pretty passionate about the position. Good for them if they use the resources available to them to make awesome product, even if it does bear a large corp's logo. I'm not going to begrudge them for that.

I'm also not in any way slighting what's coming out of smaller companies like Passau, Facory Mad, and (again, especially) Brian's. I've owned Brian's products before and regret selling them, I'd definitely buy from them again. Passau's sticks and their backpack bag are upcoming purchases for me, and if $$ were no object, I'd buy a set from Dennis as well.

Not sure if any of this even makes sense, just some scattered thoughts.....

[IPv6Freely]

8 minutes ago, Pauly35or00 said:

I also can't stand that everything, up to and including NHL'ers gear is made off-shore now.

I've never figured out why people think the chinese aren't able to sew. 

I'm half-kidding. If quality suffers because of overseas manufacturing, then the QA department needs to be stepped up. I don't give a damn where my stuff is MADE as long as its up to quality standards. 

[bunnyman666]

4 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

I've never figured out why people think the chinese aren't able to sew. 

I'm half-kidding. If quality suffers because of overseas manufacturing, then the QA department needs to be stepped up. I don't give a damn where my stuff is MADE as long as its up to quality standards. 

Ding!

It all depends on who is the QC person for the factory and whether or not it is a contract factory or their own with their own people. If don’t visit the factory, you get shoddy results. I know this from very personal accounts. 

I have seen BEAUTIFUL stuff come from a factory in China, and have also seen EMBARRASSING stuff come from the same factory! 

My objection to Asian made comes from knowing the low cost of manufacture and that low cost not passed onto the consumer. The lack of environmental laws there is another bee in my bonnet!!!

[Pauly35or00]

14 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

I've never figured out why people think the chinese aren't able to sew. 

I'm half-kidding. If quality suffers because of overseas manufacturing, then the QA department needs to be stepped up. I don't give a damn where my stuff is MADE as long as its up to quality standards. 

Quality has got much, much better, that is absolutely true. My issue with offshore products isn't really with quality anymore, literally, everything is made offshore now. My problems are that the cost savings is never, ever returned to the end user. Like I said though, that's a whole different argument for a different thread.

[RichMan]

9 hours ago, Pauly35or00 said:

I voted big but most of my gear except for skates and sticks are from a small company, Simmons. Two years ago I would have voted small but like others have said, most of the "small" guys (not all) when it comes to pads and gloves have become stagnant design wise. Hell, some of these companies are still basically selling the same Velocity clones they started their business with just with minor updates they've had no choice but to make over the years. This isn't necessarily a bad thing if the costs are kept in check. The end user generally has a pretty good idea of what they are getting and how the gear is going to play because they've been using the same equipment since 2001.

I am all for the big guys pushing new innovations and spending the money to make the position easier or just putting the gear on and getting comfortable much quicker, the downside to the most recent gear trends in goal development is that if you don't like a stiff pad this new stuff does nothing for you, you will hate it.

I also can't stand that everything, up to and including NHL'ers gear is made off-shore now. I understand the reasoning, hell I understand the absolute necessity for these companies to drive profits but it still burns me that they are charging more for pro-level gear than they ever have while making record profits on the backs of (let's be honest) people working slave wage factory jobs. This is the cost of doing business in a world economy designed to squeeze every last cent out of everything and it's kind of sad. I also don't think the quality control is still anywhere near what we used to get with a North American made product but all of this is a whole different argument.

This all being said I know i'm going to end up in either a G series Warrior pad or a Bauer 1x pad next year and it's solely due to how much this gear can change the position for the better. My Bauer S190 skates have made me a believer that sometimes we have to get out of our personal comfort zone and try something new if the end result is a better personal performance.

I've been toying with the same thoughts in my mind since I bought my 700X skates. Trying something new in style is much harder than just plain new gear.

[RichMan]

9 hours ago, Pauly35or00 said:

I voted big but most of my gear except for skates and sticks are from a small company, Simmons. Two years ago I would have voted small but like others have said, most of the "small" guys (not all) when it comes to pads and gloves have become stagnant design wise. Hell, some of these companies are still basically selling the same Velocity clones they started their business with just with minor updates they've had no choice but to make over the years. This isn't necessarily a bad thing if the costs are kept in check. The end user generally has a pretty good idea of what they are getting and how the gear is going to play because they've been using the same equipment since 2001.

I am all for the big guys pushing new innovations and spending the money to make the position easier or just putting the gear on and getting comfortable much quicker, the downside to the most recent gear trends in goal development is that if you don't like a stiff pad this new stuff does nothing for you, you will hate it.

I also can't stand that everything, up to and including NHL'ers gear is made off-shore now. I understand the reasoning, hell I understand the absolute necessity for these companies to drive profits but it still burns me that they are charging more for pro-level gear than they ever have while making record profits on the backs of (let's be honest) people working slave wage factory jobs. This is the cost of doing business in a world economy designed to squeeze every last cent out of everything and it's kind of sad. I also don't think the quality control is still anywhere near what we used to get with a North American made product but all of this is a whole different argument.

This all being said I know i'm going to end up in either a G series Warrior pad or a Bauer 1x pad next year and it's solely due to how much this gear can change the position for the better. My Bauer S190 skates have made me a believer that sometimes we have to get out of our personal comfort zone and try something new if the end result is a better personal performance.

I've been toying with the same thoughts in my mind since I bought my 700X skates. Trying something new in style is much harder than just plain new gear.

[home0006]

I was a long time believer in the smaller companies.  I bought Smith, Brown, Maltese, PAW, WGD and Simmons in the past.  However as others have mentioned, innovation is moving at such a rapid pace that a lot of these companies can not keep up with the Vaughn's, CCM's and Bauer's of the world.  I love the way my WGD (Summit) catcher I have feels but I find I leave it on the shelf because when compared to the CCM catcher with the D30 foams and construction the protection doesn't even come close.  You compare weight of a Vaughn V7 carbon fiber chest protector to that of a Brown and it's noticeable, and the difference in protection is getting smaller and smaller.  The biggest reason to go smaller now has to do with the customization factor of the gear.  For me there aren't really any of the rack chest protectors that I can go into a store and buy that will fit properly.  Either arms are too long to get a good fitting body or the body is too short for the arms to feel right.  That brought me to Brown and why I wear their C/A because it was made from my measurements.  CCM, and Bauer I know won't mix and match body/arms.  Vaughn and Brian's will but it's no where near to the customization as a Brown can get but the wait time also is 8-12 weeks vs 2 weeks or so for a Brown chest unit.  

You even compare what masks are being made with now when you look at the foams they're using and construction in a 960 or even 950 and the new CCM mask now compared to the masks of years past.  In the end fit is always the most important factor of the mask, but to see the 960 XPM mask in person and compare that to the standard kevlar/fiberglass mix from a smaller company like Warwick for close to the same money if not more it's hard not to go with a big name like Bauer.  However masks are so arbitrary in how confident people feel in them I wish there would be some outside 3rd party testing that would truly be able to compare the impact forces of a puck to see if there's a difference to know what is best.  

As far as the whole domestic vs overseas gear is concerned there's pros and cons of both.  I've never had an issue with the construction of an overseas pad.  They've been as good as any domestic pad I've had in that same price point area.  Either way though you're helping/hurting people at some level either way. If you don't go to your local hockey shop to buy a pair of pads because all the big names are made overseas you're hurting the local store owner, sales clerk, cleaning company who comes in after hours to clean the store, delivery drivers who deliver product to the store the landlord who owns the shop that they're in (I'm sure there are 100s more in the supply chain I can't even think of).  You're also hurting those at the corporate level who are located domestically such as the gear designers like Dave Wilcox (when he was with TPS/Sher-wood), Pete Smith, Lefebvre, who are working on these locally.  You're hurting all the secretaries, and office administrators.  So from a principle standpoint there are probably more people with the big companies you're hurting by going with a smaller company simply because manufacturing is done overseas.