Mach - Bauer 2022 Supreme Line

[coopaloop1234]

2 hours ago, maxtm30 said:

. If that sl1d3r skin (sick gamertag B4u3r ) 

Glad I wasn't the only one to laugh at the 1337 5p34k 

[maxtm30]

1 hour ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Glad I wasn't the only one to laugh at the 1337 5p34k 

Marketing department at a lot of fun at least!

 

[Chenner29]

2 hours ago, maxtm30 said:

I did a quick free body diagram that emulates the situation. The tension in  cord cannot affect sliding significantly because the tension pulls your feet towards the pad, but you slide in the same direction as this force. Also it is a force within the analyzed system, a bit like how an airplane is not affected by the rotation of the Earth because it already rotates with it.

The friction coefficient of materials is different for static (to initiate movement) and dynamic (friction while already moving), so this new skin could have a higher value for one or both of those. At this point, it could be that the coating on the skin is a new, rougher material. Is the sliding issue a generalized thing or is it only when you’re static in the butterfly and you push to slide?

The material on the sliding surface (knee and calf) seems the same as prior gens from what I see with the pictures, so it cannot be that (could be wrong here).
 

From my mechanical designer/ jr. Engineer stand point, I can’t wait to actually use my incoming set to test this, and try to quantify it somehow.

Thanks for clarifying, and it's always great to get a more technical look at how things work.

I've been workshopping both scenarios in my head, and while I don't have the technical background that you do, I still wonder if there is merit in having a fixed end point (ie. 2" of skate lace slack) versus a variable end point (ie. an elastic toe which expands/contracts based on how much energy is put into it).  Having played in a Lefevre 20.1 with Fastglide (IMO a poor choice of material that does neither of these things) and elastic toes, I felt the elastic toes in those expanding faster than I was sliding.

It's been discussed a few times on here, and IIRC @ThatCarGuy and I are in the same boat in that regular skate lace is better than an elastic toe in isolated scenarios like bumping off the post from an RVH. 

IIRC the skin is different (SLIDER skin) but I could not pick up any differences visually or by touch

[Chenner29]

4 hours ago, RecoveringGoalie1 said:

You're correct on that's where I find most of the snow build up.  I use elastic as it helps with my hips and its worth the trade off even if skate laces help mitigate this issue.

@maxtm30 "Is the sliding issue a generalized thing or is it only when you’re static in the butterfly and you push to slide?"

I find it's an issue in both cases, whether that's pushing in the butterfly or just going side to side. But it's definitely more noticeable while in the static position - you don't get that same beautiful glide of last generation where it felt like one good push could send you outside your crease.

I was on the ice with them again last night and it confirmed that these simply do not slide as well as last generation. The ice was in perfect condition and I'd dialed in my strapping by this point so there's no excuses with those factors controlled for.

That being said I'm still quite happy with the Mach's as the strapping on the Mach's is a huge step up for me and I don't feel like it's hurting my game as of yet. Or it's Stockholm syndrome and I don't want to lament the cost of these customs...

Continuing on in the workshop

Do you find you're losing slide leading with the pad face (left pic) or with the skate (right pic)? or both?

If leading with the pad, have you noticed any tendency for the pad to roll onto its face?

Does your slide degrade over the skate; can it be due to ice building up the center of the channel?  Based on your remark here it seems as though the slide sucks even on a fresh sheet

Would you be willing to try skate lace for one session and provide feedback?  Don't want you to risk getting hurt if you have serious hip/ankle/knee issues, so if you're not comfortable/unwilling then we will rule out this as a possible solution and I'll look for another guinea pig (lol)

[maxtm30]

1 hour ago, Chenner29 said:

Thanks for clarifying, and it's always great to get a more technical look at how things work.

I've been workshopping both scenarios in my head, and while I don't have the technical background that you do, I still wonder if there is merit in having a fixed end point (ie. 2" of skate lace slack) versus a variable end point (ie. an elastic toe which expands/contracts based on how much energy is put into it).  Having played in a Lefevre 20.1 with Fastglide (IMO a poor choice of material that does neither of these things) and elastic toes, I felt the elastic toes in those expanding faster than I was sliding.

It's been discussed a few times on here, and IIRC @ThatCarGuy and I are in the same boat in that regular skate lace is better than an elastic toe in isolated scenarios like bumping off the post from an RVH. 

IIRC the skin is different (SLIDER skin) but I could not pick up any differences visually or by touch

I too use skate laces. I don’t think it affects the sliding simply because of the shear weight applied at the knee level VS the weight of a foot.

Your theory about elastic might make sense with the dragging leg, but the drag would need to be pretty significant to hinder sliding.

I will have skate laces and my set should come soon, if I don’t see any difference you may be right after all  

[Chenner29]

4 hours ago, maxtm30 said:

I too use skate laces. I don’t think it affects the sliding simply because of the shear weight applied at the knee level VS the weight of a foot.

Your theory about elastic might make sense with the dragging leg, but the drag would need to be pretty significant to hinder sliding.

I will have skate laces and my set should come soon, if I don’t see any difference you may be right after all  

Ehh, we'll see

You're the engineer

I go around telling jokes and share memes for a living (I work in sales)

[SixThreeStopper]

On 11/16/2021 at 11:31 AM, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

One lightest pads on the market External breaks have been getting less popular for years. Crawford had none, Smith has none, Tokarski who wears a pad style of your apparent era has no outer breaks either. Bauer has evolved the gear industry in a way like none other over the past 10 to 15 years. Evolution is good for the game.

Bauer has shown the rest of the industry that prefers to make gear overseas how to do it in a marketable way. For the industry itself and pros that get stuff replaced with little to no financial impact, awesome. For those that value durability and long-term quality, not so much. To each his own, but let's not pretend the build quality is on par with Canadian-made gear. It can't be and isn't intended to.

[406goalie]

Couple of questions for clarification, so any custom order does not allow for the stock calf setup, pillow, she’ll shape, etc?  Or is it just an option to go NHL spec or retail stock spec?

I know the goalie community hates Trav4Oilers on YouTube, but he got the retail pads and hated them.  Made a point in his video to say no NHL goalie likes them and they are just all wearing hyperlites with the Mach graphic.  My assumption would be that pros don’t want to experiment with a new pad in season and more pros will be in Full Mach come next season.  Is this a bad assumption?

I have a set of retail Machs coming and I’m excited to try some of the new features on it.

[ThatCarGuy]

1 hour ago, 406goalie said:

Couple of questions for clarification, so any custom order does not allow for the stock calf setup, pillow, she’ll shape, etc?  Or is it just an option to go NHL spec or retail stock spec?

I know the goalie community hates Trav4Oilers on YouTube, but he got the retail pads and hated them.  Made a point in his video to say no NHL goalie likes them and they are just all wearing hyperlites with the Mach graphic.  My assumption would be that pros don’t want to experiment with a new pad in season and more pros will be in Full Mach come next season.  Is this a bad assumption?

I have a set of retail Machs coming and I’m excited to try some of the new features on it.

First of all trav has lost all of his connections with the manufacturers and the only reason he got those pads is a fan gave him a Bauer code. But yes any custom Mach set uses the Ultrasonic calf plate and Hyperlite calf pillow. From my understanding the new Mach strapping was such a jump for most guys that they didn’t want to leave the Ultrasonic/Hyperlite tune fit style. 

[A.YOUNGoalie13]

1 hour ago, 406goalie said:

Couple of questions for clarification, so any custom order does not allow for the stock calf setup, pillow, she’ll shape, etc?  Or is it just an option to go NHL spec or retail stock spec?

I know the goalie community hates Trav4Oilers on YouTube, but he got the retail pads and hated them.  Made a point in his video to say no NHL goalie likes them and they are just all wearing hyperlites with the Mach graphic.  My assumption would be that pros don’t want to experiment with a new pad in season and more pros will be in Full Mach come next season.  Is this a bad assumption?

I have a set of retail Machs coming and I’m excited to try some of the new features on it.

He doesn’t know what those guys are wearing anymore than we do.

[Yzueblin]

12 hours ago, 406goalie said:

Couple of questions for clarification, so any custom order does not allow for the stock calf setup, pillow, she’ll shape, etc?  Or is it just an option to go NHL spec or retail stock spec?

I know the goalie community hates Trav4Oilers on YouTube, but he got the retail pads and hated them.  Made a point in his video to say no NHL goalie likes them and they are just all wearing hyperlites with the Mach graphic.  My assumption would be that pros don’t want to experiment with a new pad in season and more pros will be in Full Mach come next season.  Is this a bad assumption?

I have a set of retail Machs coming and I’m excited to try some of the new features on it.

I talked with some guys at my local store since I used the Mach demo and they all suggest people to use hyperlite pads with stiffer option and the Mach skin  

they hate the new sliding material and except if you play in a pro level you don’t need a Mach stiff pads in a beer league 

im already curious about the next Vapor line next year if they will stay with the new sliding material or not 

[ilyazhito]

2 hours ago, Yzueblin said:

I talked with some guys at my local store since I used the Mach demo and they all suggest people to use hyperlite pads with stiffer option and the Mach skin  

they hate the new sliding material and except if you play in a pro level you don’t need a Mach stiff pads in a beer league 

im already curious about the next Vapor line next year if they will stay with the new sliding material or not 

Curious. One would custom spec the Hyperlites to be stiffer? What customizer options would I need to choose, to get a Hyperlite to play like a blocking pad (stiff pad, hard rebounds)?

[ZeroGravitas]

4 hours ago, ilyazhito said:

Curious. One would custom spec the Hyperlites to be stiffer? What customizer options would I need to choose, to get a Hyperlite to play like a blocking pad (stiff pad, hard rebounds)?

You'll have to select the Pro Custom option in order to do it but:

Construction: Hyperlite

Pad Specs -> Flex: You can choose any flex you want, but Hyperlite is the softest.

Pad Specs -> Knee -> Knee Block: Whatever you want.

You wouldn't be able to spec a Surpeme-style stiffer boot, though.

I believe your 2S Pro are considered Stiff - same stiffness level as Mach.

Edited August 7, 2022 by ZeroGravitas
Typo.

[Yzueblin]

41 minutes ago, ZeroGravitas said:

You'll do to select the Pro Custom option in order to do it but:

Construction: Hyperlite

Pad Specs -> Flex: You can choose any flex you want, but Hyperlite is the softest.

Pad Specs -> Knee -> Knee Block: Whatever you want.

You wouldn't be able to spec a Surpeme-style stiffer boot, though.

I believe your 2S Pro are considered Stiff - same stiffness level as Mach.

Perfect answer here 

the only difference is the angle of the boot ! You can’t have the 120 dégrée with the hyperlite but you can choose to have a thicker pads like supreme 

[Yzueblin]

1 hour ago, ilyazhito said:

Curious. One would custom spec the Hyperlites to be stiffer? What customizer options would I need to choose, to get a Hyperlite to play like a blocking pad (stiff pad, hard rebounds)?

The hyperlite pads is not soft enough to be called a hybrid pads. For me a hybrid pads need to have some torsional flex at the knee like gnetik / V9 / 12.2 and eflex 

for me the hyperlite pads still a blocking pads but the major difference come from the hyperlite flex with a pad like a S . That help you to close your narrow butterfly. With the 2xpro and supreme it’s was hard for a beer league goalie to close perfectly the butterfly if he doesn’t have a good hip mobility 

[ilyazhito]

So the 2x, 3x and Hyperlite pads are more comparable to a CCM Premier-type pad than to a true hybrid pad? 

[ThatCarGuy]

My Mach glove came in super stiff even after loosening some laces so time for tgn break in method. 

[406goalie]

Just got my Mach gloves, coming from the Ultrasonic which became my all time favorite glove, it definitely feels different.  Closure is great and similar, but that back hand and strapping is something to get used to.  At first I couldn't even get my fingers into the glove, especially my pinky.  Had to really adjust and loosen the strapping, and even then it's pretty tight on the fingers, but I guess that has to do with no wrist strapping.  Feels similar to how broken in my Ultrasonic was when I got it back in January.  Have about a week till hockey starts here, so will start with my normal process of leaving it closed and swapping to open for half days.  I battle pretty bad Carpal tunnel in my fingers, which makes it hard to shut gloves unless they are super broken in (From years of playing goalie in soccer growing up and in college).  Will see if I need to do the hot water method.  

Has anyone used a heat gun or blow dryer to heat the glove instead of the hot water method?  Wonder if it may melt the new materials or if it is similar to hot water being added?

Pads are being delivered today.

[ZeroGravitas]

On 8/6/2022 at 10:19 PM, ilyazhito said:

So the 2x, 3x and Hyperlite pads are more comparable to a CCM Premier-type pad than to a true hybrid pad? 

I think it's too reductionist to try to compare a specific Bauer pad to a specific CCM pad. Both Bauers lines are built for the butterfly; they just cater to goalies with different preferences.

1 hour ago, 406goalie said:

Just got my Mach gloves, coming from the Ultrasonic which became my all time favorite glove, it definitely feels different.  Closure is great and similar, but that back hand and strapping is something to get used to.  At first I couldn't even get my fingers into the glove, especially my pinky.  Had to really adjust and loosen the strapping, and even then it's pretty tight on the fingers, but I guess that has to do with no wrist strapping.  Feels similar to how broken in my Ultrasonic was when I got it back in January.  Have about a week till hockey starts here, so will start with my normal process of leaving it closed and swapping to open for half days.  I battle pretty bad Carpal tunnel in my fingers, which makes it hard to shut gloves unless they are super broken in (From years of playing goalie in soccer growing up and in college).  Will see if I need to do the hot water method.  

Has anyone used a heat gun or blow dryer to heat the glove instead of the hot water method?  Wonder if it may melt the new materials or if it is similar to hot water being added?

Pads are being delivered today.

My Mach catcher felt quite a bit stiffer than my Ultrasonics straight out of the box, despite similar specs between the two (reinforced tee + pro palm). I put the Mach in a baseball glove steamer for a couple minutes and also alternated between tying it shut while I slept and working it in during the day. Now it opens and closes much better.

You should be fine with the heat gun as long as you don't focus any particular spot for too long (and depending on the amount of heat that the gun generates).

[ilyazhito]

21 minutes ago, ZeroGravitas said:

I think it's too reductionist to try to compare a specific Bauer pad to a specific CCM pad. Both Bauers lines are built for the butterfly; they just cater to goalies with different preferences.

My Mach catcher felt quite a bit stiffer than my Ultrasonics straight out of the box, despite similar specs between the two (reinforced tee + pro palm). I put the Mach in a baseball glove steamer for a couple minutes and also alternated between tying it shut while I slept and working it in during the day. Now it opens and closes much better.

You should be fine with the heat gun as long as you don't focus any particular spot for too long (and depending on the amount of heat that the gun generates).

I compared the CCM Premier line to the Bauer Vapor line, because both pads are somewhat stiff pads that have a pre-curve. If I recall correctly, Vapors are too stiff to be considered a true hybrid pad, but Premiers were some of the softer butterfly pads. 

[keeperton]

On 8/6/2022 at 5:24 AM, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

He doesn’t know what those guys are wearing anymore than we do.

I always assumed one could tell by seeing how the leg channel was done on the pads the pros wear, since all the Bauer leg channels are pretty distinct, but I am willing to be completely wrong. 

[A.YOUNGoalie13]

12 hours ago, keeperton said:

I always assumed one could tell by seeing how the leg channel was done on the pads the pros wear, since all the Bauer leg channels are pretty distinct, but I am willing to be completely wrong. 

What those guys wear is so custom that they have part of one pad there and something totally different somewhere else. Unless its stock we are all probably wrong

[RecoveringGoalie1]

Having been on the ice 10+ times with my new Machs, a minor update: the pads have broken in, and overall I'm happy with them. The stability in the butterfly is unmatched with any other pad I've worn, and I've never felt limited by them during play. I credit a lot of the feel to the new strapping system and genuinely think it's the best strapping system Bauer has ever done. I customized my pads with a stabiliflex knee as I feel stabilislide is unnecessarily tough on your hips and I have no regrets on that front.

Either the skin has 'broken in' or I've simply adjusted to it and I no longer it's holding me back when it comes to sliding around on the ice. That being said, if I could go back in time I would have gone with the Mach graphic on the Vapour line and simply had the Hyperlites stiffened up to feel similar to the Mach to get the best of both worlds.

If you struggle with your butterfly / don't have great hip mobility, I'd highly recommend staying away from the Mach/Supreme line for longevity sake.

 

 

[punkard]

While waiting for my mach pads to arrive, I ended up upgrading the chesty as well. Thing is super comfy out of the box. Not sure if it was just the day being warm, but I was noticeably warmer wearing it than with the previous unit.

 

[ThatCarGuy]

On 8/9/2022 at 12:15 PM, RecoveringGoalie1 said:

Either the skin has 'broken in' or I've simply adjusted to it and I no longer it's holding me back when it comes to sliding around on the ice.

I was just about to come and say the same thing. Even after just 3 skates sliding feels much easier than the first few sessions. I still get caught on snow from time to time since the seal on the pads is so good that it just pushes the snow.