Graf vs CCM

[motowngoalie]

Hey everyone, I'm looking at updating my skates sometime soon. I'm currently in Bauer X900's for reference; they just don't feel that great, even after skating in them weekly for around 3 years now.

Can anyone offer insight into CCM's Tacks/Jetspeed lines vs the cowlingless skates Graf offers now? I'm considering CCM as years ago I had Reebok 14K's and absolutely loved them. They were the most comfortable skate I've ever owned. My Graf G7500's were a close second, so the two brands are my top choices as of now. I have access to try on CCM's lines locally, but not the Graf's (that I'm aware of, anyway).

[insertnamehere]

I can't offer any insight about the CCMs, but I went from Bauer S190s, which would be the Supreme equivalent to your Vapors, into the new Graf Peakspeed Pro G and absolutely love them. As far as performance goes I'd say there's not a huge difference, but the comfort in the Graf boot after baking is so much better. I can't think of any single time my feet have been uncomfortable after playing. 

[Patrick]

My son went from a Graf DM1050 8.5 to the Graf Peakspeed Pro G in size 8.5. He plays 16AA.

The boot and liner are really nice. They are light and comfortable from the start. and the I had some reserve about the holder and steel and it works well for the most part.

However, we had 2 issues that you must be aware of.

Sizing:

We were advised at Goalie Plus that the sizing was exactly the same. It is not. We should have got a 9. Another gentlemen from another store warned us but since he is wearing an 11, I though it might have been a problem only in the bigger sizes. I followed the seller advice. It feels so much smaller in length and in width as it is barely usable.  We baked them and use them since October in the hope that the liner will pack. It did not.

Holder:

I could never get a good sharpening on them on our Spark machine. I could get an even edge in the front and middle but not at the heel on my edge checker since day one. I did not know if it was the blade or the holder. We went to MonkeySport in Irvine, CA and Mark the manager confirmed that the holder was off and did straitened it quite a bit but it is still off and will need to get remounted. I will probably get it remounted next time we go to Southern CA. I don't know if it is an isolated case or a frequent problem with the quality of the holder mounting. I did not contact the Goalieplus nor Graf/Vaughn about it as we don't want to send the skate back in the middle of the season and argue about whether it was the blade or holder and it was our fault or theirs and all.....I try to contact Graf and Vaughn before buying and i wasn't impressed with their customer service. They would not answer any questions and referred me to their resellers who practically don't know anything about the skate because nobody has seen it in store even less try it on the ice. If you buy from any online store, it ships directly from Graf.

For that reason, at the end of the season we will have the skate remonted and sold because of the sizing issue. We can use it but it is way too tight. I am not sure if we want another Graf this time as a size 9 or look for a one piece True skate.

[bunnyman666]

The sizing changed dramatically during the Reebok/CCM switchover. A size 7.5 Ribcore does NOT fit like a 14K. I am going to try punching mine out. I don’t know if the Ribcore boot is even being offered anymore, especially since it is a traditional goal skate with a soft outsole. That is the closest CCM boot comparison to the Graf I now have. Of course since you named the 14K, I felt it was worth mentioning.

 I did the cowling/cowlingless conversion on a Graf skate. It took awhile to break mine in. But something told me to stay with it. Glad I did! I have found that for some reason, North American Graf has trouble mounting holders. Frankly, if it were me, I would put a CCM XSG holder on my Graf skate and call it a day.

[SaveByRichter35]

7 hours ago, Patrick said:

My son went from a Graf DM1050 8.5 to the Graf Peakspeed Pro G in size 8.5. He plays 16AA.

The boot and liner are really nice. They are light and comfortable from the start. and the I had some reserve about the holder and steel and it works well for the most part.

However, we had 2 issues that you must be aware of.

Sizing:

We were advised at Goalie Plus that the sizing was exactly the same. It is not. We should have got a 9. Another gentlemen from another store warned us but since he is wearing an 11, I though it might have been a problem only in the bigger sizes. I followed the seller advice. It feels so much smaller in length and in width as it is barely usable.  We baked them and use them since October in the hope that the liner will pack. It did not.

Holder:

I could never get a good sharpening on them on our Spark machine. I could get an even edge in the front and middle but not at the heel on my edge checker since day one. I did not know if it was the blade or the holder. We went to MonkeySport in Irvine, CA and Mark the manager confirmed that the holder was off and did straitened it quite a bit but it is still off and will need to get remounted. I will probably get it remounted next time we go to Southern CA. I don't know if it is an isolated case or a frequent problem with the quality of the holder mounting. I did not contact the Goalieplus nor Graf/Vaughn about it as we don't want to send the skate back in the middle of the season and argue about whether it was the blade or holder and it was our fault or theirs and all.....I try to contact Graf and Vaughn before buying and i wasn't impressed with their customer service. They would not answer any questions and referred me to their resellers who practically don't know anything about the skate because nobody has seen it in store even less try it on the ice. If you buy from any online store, it ships directly from Graf.

For that reason, at the end of the season we will have the skate remonted and sold because of the sizing issue. We can use it but it is way too tight. I am not sure if we want another Graf this time as a size 9 or look for a one piece True skate.

There is a semi local shop to me in NYC that has been a Graf dealer forever.  If you need someone with a little more insight you could always give them a call.  West Side Skates

[bunnyman666]

8 hours ago, Patrick said:

My son went from a Graf DM1050 8.5 to the Graf Peakspeed Pro G in size 8.5. He plays 16AA.

The boot and liner are really nice. They are light and comfortable from the start. and the I had some reserve about the holder and steel and it works well for the most part.

However, we had 2 issues that you must be aware of.

Sizing:

We were advised at Goalie Plus that the sizing was exactly the same. It is not. We should have got a 9. Another gentlemen from another store warned us but since he is wearing an 11, I though it might have been a problem only in the bigger sizes. I followed the seller advice. It feels so much smaller in length and in width as it is barely usable.  We baked them and use them since October in the hope that the liner will pack. It did not.

Holder:

I could never get a good sharpening on them on our Spark machine. I could get an even edge in the front and middle but not at the heel on my edge checker since day one. I did not know if it was the blade or the holder. We went to MonkeySport in Irvine, CA and Mark the manager confirmed that the holder was off and did straitened it quite a bit but it is still off and will need to get remounted. I will probably get it remounted next time we go to Southern CA. I don't know if it is an isolated case or a frequent problem with the quality of the holder mounting. I did not contact the Goalieplus nor Graf/Vaughn about it as we don't want to send the skate back in the middle of the season and argue about whether it was the blade or holder and it was our fault or theirs and all.....I try to contact Graf and Vaughn before buying and i wasn't impressed with their customer service. They would not answer any questions and referred me to their resellers who practically don't know anything about the skate because nobody has seen it in store even less try it on the ice. If you buy from any online store, it ships directly from Graf.

For that reason, at the end of the season we will have the skate remonted and sold because of the sizing issue. We can use it but it is way too tight. I am not sure if we want another Graf this time as a size 9 or look for a one piece True skate.

Did you ever remove the blade and sharpen in a blade carrier? I do that a lot and have found I get better results.

[Patrick]

12 hours ago, bunnyman666 said:

Frankly, if it were me, I would put a CCM XSG holder on my Graf skate and call it a day.

That's what I would do too if the skates were sized right. He can use them but they cause some problems that could be bad for the longer term.

[Patrick]

11 hours ago, bunnyman666 said:

Did you ever remove the blade and sharpen in a blade carrier? I do that a lot and have found I get better results.

Yes, it's better but when you put it back in the holder the slight twist of the blade change the blade angles again.

[Patrick]

12 hours ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

There is a semi local shop to me in NYC that has been a Graf dealer forever.  If you need someone with a little more insight you could always give them a call.  West Side Skates

I might. Very appreciated.

[bunnyman666]

1 hour ago, Patrick said:

Yes, it's better but when you put it back in the holder the slight twist of the blade change the blade angles again.

Sorry to hear. Ugh.

[motowngoalie]

Well, the search continues. I've had my feet scanned and by the looks of it, I barely fit into a fit 3 from Bauer. Pure Hockey only had a fit 2 for me to try, but it wasn't even close. I'm waiting on a pair of Super Tacks 9380, but not too sure on them as they're only available in regular width (apparently CCM no longer makes wide skates in sizes past 9, has to be custom).

Anyways, Graf might have won the day regardless. One 5 minute phone call to Vaughn and they're sending me a pair of Pro G's to try on for reference. I would have been able to skate in them also, but their demo in my size is currently out. So I got a brand new pair from their stock to try on at home. Pretty great service!

Overall though, my gut feeling is I'll likely have to go custom to get what I'm looking for (or scour Sideline/FB groups for a used pair). 

[bunnyman666]

30 minutes ago, motowngoalie said:

Well, the search continues. I've had my feet scanned and by the looks of it, I barely fit into a fit 3 from Bauer. Pure Hockey only had a fit 2 for me to try, but it wasn't even close. I'm waiting on a pair of Super Tacks 9380, but not too sure on them as they're only available in regular width (apparently CCM no longer makes wide skates in sizes past 9, has to be custom).

Anyways, Graf might have won the day regardless. One 5 minute phone call to Vaughn and they're sending me a pair of Pro G's to try on for reference. I would have been able to skate in them also, but their demo in my size is currently out. So I got a brand new pair from their stock to try on at home. Pretty great service!

Overall though, my gut feeling is I'll likely have to go custom to get what I'm looking for (or scour Sideline/FB groups for a used pair). 

Finding skates that fit is super frustrating. I can commiserate. I have a wide forefoot and super-narrow heel. Between 30 years of standing on my feet and having done boxing training, my foot is a nightmare to fit. It was luck that Graf came to my rescue! 
 
I am hoping that you may luck out!

[SaveByRichter35]

On 1/7/2022 at 3:31 PM, motowngoalie said:

Well, the search continues. I've had my feet scanned and by the looks of it, I barely fit into a fit 3 from Bauer. Pure Hockey only had a fit 2 for me to try, but it wasn't even close. I'm waiting on a pair of Super Tacks 9380, but not too sure on them as they're only available in regular width (apparently CCM no longer makes wide skates in sizes past 9, has to be custom).

Anyways, Graf might have won the day regardless. One 5 minute phone call to Vaughn and they're sending me a pair of Pro G's to try on for reference. I would have been able to skate in them also, but their demo in my size is currently out. So I got a brand new pair from their stock to try on at home. Pretty great service!

Overall though, my gut feeling is I'll likely have to go custom to get what I'm looking for (or scour Sideline/FB groups for a used pair). 

If you're going to check sideline swap see if you can find some new old stock skates.  Might be able to find some larger skates in your size that never sold.  

[savegilbert]

Can anyone speak to how the skate fit changes before and after heat moulding.  I was in Graf DM 1050 size 9.5,,, two eyelets have ripped and at this stage rather than replace I'm looking for new skates.  I heard that these ran smaller so ordered size 10 US and just tried them on - my toes are touching the end.  I've never been a fan of that feeling/fit so thinking about going up to size 10.5 but wondering if things might change if/when I were to heat mold them.  I don't want to do it, find out they still won't fit becuase then I can't return them.  Conversely I don't want to move up 1/2 size - heat mold those and then have them feel too big (though I don't think that's as much a concern)   In the heel there is very pronounced padding on either side and a narrow heal channel right now, but wondering if my foot might reshape that and open up even 1/4 inch of space in heel and thus remove toes from cap at end.     Thanks for any insights

[mr_shifty1982]

21 hours ago, savegilbert said:

Can anyone speak to how the skate fit changes before and after heat moulding.  I was in Graf DM 1050 size 9.5,,, two eyelets have ripped and at this stage rather than replace I'm looking for new skates.  I heard that these ran smaller so ordered size 10 US and just tried them on - my toes are touching the end.  I've never been a fan of that feeling/fit so thinking about going up to size 10.5 but wondering if things might change if/when I were to heat mold them.  I don't want to do it, find out they still won't fit becuase then I can't return them.  Conversely I don't want to move up 1/2 size - heat mold those and then have them feel too big (though I don't think that's as much a concern)   In the heel there is very pronounced padding on either side and a narrow heal channel right now, but wondering if my foot might reshape that and open up even 1/4 inch of space in heel and thus remove toes from cap at end.     Thanks for any insights

Heat molding won't change the length of the skate just the fit. The toe won't start shrinking in lol so if you're touching, get a half size bigger and go into a store if you can to try. 

[Patrick]

55 minutes ago, mr_shifty1982 said:

Heat molding won't change the length of the skate just the fit. The toe won't start shrinking in lol so if you're touching, get a half size bigger and go into a store if you can to try. 

 

55 minutes ago, mr_shifty1982 said:

Heat molding won't change the length of the skate just the fit. The toe won't start shrinking in lol so if you're touching, get a half size bigger and go into a store if you can to try. 

So I agree with the above comment. We did bake a Graf Pro G skate thinking that it would add some length by compressing the back of the ankle area and it didn't do enough. I would go a half size bigger.

[savegilbert]

Thanks Patrick that's exactly what I was wondering.  I have a pair of Grafs and Bauers to compare (same size) and the Graf's have a lot more padding in the heel (pre-heating) so I thought that heating might let me heel push some of that padding around  - create more space and in a sense the foot would slide further back.   Not "change the length of the skate" LOL - Mr- Shifty1982

[Patrick]

I thought the same too but that liner doesn't pack much even with baking and with skating 5 time a week for 2 months. Which is a good thing for longevity of the skates but do not count on making significant length space with it. If you like the skate just go up 1/2 size. We learned from it.