IIHF 2022 WJC Cancelled

[CJ Boiss]

10 minutes ago, estogoalie said:

I'm pretty sure the majority of the people in the old-folks home would be happy to watch kids playing hockey on TV and the world carrying on as usual, rather than knowing those kids are being deprived of a normal childhood and being locked down in their homes, alone, wearing masks, and being injected with drugs they don't need.

Ah, yes, "vaccines"; famous for not eradicating things like polio, tetanus, hepatitis A and B, rubella, mumps, measles, rotavirus, pneumococcal disease, diphtheria...

Hey, while you're at the care home telling everyone that their lives are less important than kids playing a game, ask them about the small circular scar on their upper arm. You might learn something.

[Fullright]

Only speaking about where I live; there are too many....on second thought, I like this board and the goalies here so I'll just skip it. 

[estogoalie]

10 hours ago, CJ Boiss said:

Ah, yes, "vaccines"; famous for not eradicating things like polio, tetanus, hepatitis A and B, rubella, mumps, measles, rotavirus, pneumococcal disease, diphtheria...

Hey, while you're at the care home telling everyone that their lives are less important than kids playing a game, ask them about the small circular scar on their upper arm. You might learn something.

I didn't say vaccines were bad. I said healthy kids don't need the COVID vaccine. Why would they? Deaths/hospitalizations of kids is basically zero, and now Fauci stunningly admits that kids are actually being overcounted in hospitalization stats (!) So it's actually even less than nothing. Then consider that there is now enough evidence of the vaccine causing damage to the heart (especially in young men) that it moved from being "misinformation/conspiracy theory" to an official warning from the FDA. And since the vaccine is relatively new (and a new technology) who knows what other side-effects they discover as time rolls on. Before taking a vaccine, you should do a risk/benefit analysis, and there's alot of doctors out there who agree that there is no need for kids to get it.

The vaccine also doesn't stop you from getting infected or spreading COVID. Actually, since vaxxed people often feel less symptoms than unvaxxed, they tend to walk around spreading it more unknowingly (and no, viral load is not necessarily reduced) The NYT published maps showing vax rates and COVID transmission, and they actually match exactly. Of course you can draw whatever conclusions you want, but the data is the data, and it doesn't seem to correlate in the way we are told to expect it in terms of "slowing the spread".

So if the only real useful thing of the vaccine is to prevent bad outcomes in vulnerable people, then we are back to square one again: give the vax to the elderly, and let everyone else get on with life.

COVID is also not a death sentence. My 80+ year old Godfather (vaxxed) just had it (Delta). He said it was like a cold for 3 days. He's fine now. The majority of people dying are not just over 65 and unvaxxed, but also have serious co-morbities. In Switzerland over 80% of COVID deaths also had pre-existing heart and kidney problems. I don't know what they teach you in biology these days, but people don't live forever. It's normal and natural for people to get old and die. If COVID didn't push them over, something else soon would. This is where you end up when you actually follow the science.

 

 

[CJ Boiss]

6 hours ago, estogoalie said:

I didn't say vaccines were bad. I said healthy kids don't need the COVID vaccine. Why would they? Deaths/hospitalizations of kids is basically zero, and now Fauci stunningly admits that kids are actually being overcounted in hospitalization stats (!) So it's actually even less than nothing. Then consider that there is now enough evidence of the vaccine causing damage to the heart (especially in young men) that it moved from being "misinformation/conspiracy theory" to an official warning from the FDA. And since the vaccine is relatively new (and a new technology) who knows what other side-effects they discover as time rolls on. Before taking a vaccine, you should do a risk/benefit analysis, and there's alot of doctors out there who agree that there is no need for kids to get it.

The vaccine also doesn't stop you from getting infected or spreading COVID. Actually, since vaxxed people often feel less symptoms than unvaxxed, they tend to walk around spreading it more unknowingly (and no, viral load is not necessarily reduced) The NYT published maps showing vax rates and COVID transmission, and they actually match exactly. Of course you can draw whatever conclusions you want, but the data is the data, and it doesn't seem to correlate in the way we are told to expect it in terms of "slowing the spread".

So if the only real useful thing of the vaccine is to prevent bad outcomes in vulnerable people, then we are back to square one again: give the vax to the elderly, and let everyone else get on with life.

COVID is also not a death sentence. My 80+ year old Godfather (vaxxed) just had it (Delta). He said it was like a cold for 3 days. He's fine now. The majority of people dying are not just over 65 and unvaxxed, but also have serious co-morbities. In Switzerland over 80% of COVID deaths also had pre-existing heart and kidney problems. I don't know what they teach you in biology these days, but people don't live forever. It's normal and natural for people to get old and die. If COVID didn't push them over, something else soon would. This is where you end up when you actually follow the science.

1. Look at the seven-day rolling average to get the most accurate COVID statistics. Numbers fluctuate for all demographics, not just children, if you looks only at daily case counts.

2. The risk of myocarditis is several orders of magnitude higher from a COVID infection than it is from the vaccine. This would be like complaining that there's a chance of someone breaking a bone in a car crash if they use a seatbelt.

3. The "Great Barrington Declaration" is an astroturfed think tank group. The overwhelming consensus of the scientific community disagrees with them.

4. Nobody has ever said that the vaccine will prevent everyone from getting and/or spreading COVID. It does prevent more serious outcomes in everyone who gets it (not just vulnerable populations), and it does decrease the amount of time a person is symptomatic, both of which are unequivocally good things and . Again, we're back to "if this is what you think, that's a You problem". Also, that study was looking at Delta, not Omicron, and is in preprint, which means it hasn't been peer-reviewed.

5. Your godfather not dying of COVID is an anecdote, not data. I'm glad he's OK, but you can't generalize his personal experience.

6. People with "pre-existing conditions" (a uniquely American term that was invented to justify kicking people off of private health insurance plans, which has now infected the rest of the world with it's stupidity) account for, by some estimates, over a quarter of the general population. "COVID isn't a problem unless you have pre-existing conditions" isn't actually a helpful argument, and treads dangerously close to that eugenics thing you expressed interest in avoiding.

Where you ended up is what happens when you reject scientific consensus, believe conspiracy theorists, and think that your twenty-minutes of Googling leaves you better equipped to know the answer to these staggeringly complex issues than people who have literally spent their entire adult lives researching the matter.

Edited January 3, 2022 by CJ Boiss

[estogoalie]

36 minutes ago, CJ Boiss said:

1. Look at the seven-day rolling average to get the most accurate COVID statistics. Numbers fluctuate for all demographics, not just children, if you looks only at daily case counts.

2. The risk of myocarditis is several orders of magnitude higher from a COVID infection than it is from the vaccine. This would be like complaining that there's a chance of someone breaking a bone in a car crash if they use a seatbelt.

3. The "Great Barrington Declaration" is an astroturfed think tank group. The overwhelming consensus of the scientific community disagrees with them.

4. Nobody has ever said that the vaccine will prevent everyone from getting and/or spreading COVID. It does prevent more serious outcomes in everyone who gets it (not just vulnerable populations), and it does decrease the amount of time a person is symptomatic, both of which are unequivocally good things and . Again, we're back to "if this is what you think, that's a You problem". Also, that study was looking at Delta, not Omicron, and is in preprint, which means it hasn't been peer-reviewed.

5. Your godfather not dying of COVID is an anecdote, not data. I'm glad he's OK, but you can't generalize his personal experience.

6. People with "pre-existing conditions" (a uniquely American term that was invented to justify kicking people off of private health insurance plans, which has now infected the rest of the world with it's stupidity) account for, by some estimates, over a quarter of the general population. "COVID isn't a problem unless you have pre-existing conditions" isn't actually a helpful argument, and treads dangerously close to that eugenics thing you expressed interest in avoiding.

Where you ended up is what happens when you reject scientific consensus, believe conspiracy theorists, and think that your twenty-minutes of Googling leaves you better equipped to know the answer to these staggeringly complex issues than people who have literally spent their entire adult lives researching the matter.

Strange, I don't see anything in all of that rambling that explains why kids should get vaxxed? Or why we should lock everything down and eg. cancel the U20? 

PS- "people who have literally spent their entire adult lives researching the matter" ...like Dr. Robert Malone? He literally blew up the internet on Rogan last week.

[CJ Boiss]

4 hours ago, estogoalie said:

Strange, I don't see anything in all of that rambling that explains why kids should get vaxxed? Or why we should lock everything down and eg. cancel the U20? 

PS- "people who have literally spent their entire adult lives researching the matter" ...like Dr. Robert Malone? He literally blew up the internet on Rogan last week.

I didn't realize I needed to explain that vaccinations are a good thing; I figured the whole "the benefits vastly outweigh the microscopic associated risks"-thing was pretty self-explanatory.

And Dr Malone, so far as I can tell, isn't arguing against the efficacy or safety of the vaccines. He thinks (incorrectly) that the government is doing something illegal by enforcing vaccine mandates. (he also goes on about topics which he is emphatically not equipped to speak on, like 'mass psychosis' and the political history of early 20th century Germany, and he sure seems to enjoy rubbing elbows with conspiracy theories. This is a good reminder that just because someone is very educated about one very specific thing doesn't mean they know anything about anything else)

 

Look, you're obviously very good at arguing on the internet (by which I mean, perfectly willing to raise and drop points as they suit your needs without any regard to whether or not they form a coherent worldview), but unless you've got something salient to discuss I'd like to take my leave. I have better things to do and, frankly, so should you.

[Chenner29]

@CJ Boiss @estogoalie

Another user is reporting these posts due to (what he perceives to be) political discussion

After review and consulting with the other mods, we do not feel it has gotten to that point. 

Please do not take it there and be respectful of each other.  Thank you.

[CJ Boiss]

12 minutes ago, Chenner29 said:

@CJ Boiss @estogoalie

Another user is reporting these posts due to (what he perceives to be) political discussion

After review and consulting with the other mods, we do not feel it has gotten to that point. 

Please do not take it there and be respectful of each other.  Thanks you.

Duly noted, thank you.

[estogoalie]

15 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

@CJ Boiss @estogoalie

Another user is reporting these posts due to (what he perceives to be) political discussion

After review and consulting with the other mods, we do not feel it has gotten to that point. 

Please do not take it there and be respectful of each other.  Thank you.

It's a medical issue, but being run by politicians, so that's why it's a complete disaster, and is a polarized issue. Camp Fauci favors lockdowns, masks and jabbing everyone repeatedly. Camp Malone says give the vax to the vulnerable and let everything else go on as usual. They are both respected doctors with differing opinions.

I'm obviously in Camp Malone, but if you don't try to look at it from both sides and live in an echo chamber, then your ignorant (oddly social media and MSM is censoring the Camp Malone side, when he raises many valid points). CJ calls it "arguing", but I'm actually trying to hear the other side in case I'm missing something. I asked him several times for a valid reason why kids should be vaxxed and the U20 cancelled, but didn't hear any good point so far.

I haven't heard one any anywhere actually. Some reasons I've heard include "so you don't transmit the disease to your grandparents", hmm, vaxxed are catching/spreading it everywhere. "It's the only way to reach herd immunity", see previous answer.  Also "solidarity" or "take one for the team". Un, no, not with my kid. Or "so you can have a vax passport and part-take in society again, or keep your job". That's not a medical reason at all. 

And I really hate any sentence that starts with "out of an abundance of caution". Don't use an "abundance" of caution, use the "proper" amount of caution. I wear a ski helmet when I ski, not when I sit on my couch at home. Lockdowns don't work, destroy the economy, and cause a laundry list of other problems. These people don't seem to understand "unintended consequences" until it's too late.

Today in Switzerland they announced hospitals are at a breaking point. Not because they are overloaded with COVID patients, but because many of their (vaxxed) staff tested COVID positive and has to stay home and quarantine (despite many not having symptoms). So yea, I really don't know what's worse, the cure or the disease.

[estogoalie]

15 hours ago, CJ Boiss said:

I'd like to take my leave. I have better things to do and, frankly, so should you.

I'm not holding you here, LOL 

On my side, my hockey season was cancelled and I'm basically locked-down, so I got plenty of time to kill