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True 20.2 full set first impressions


wox33
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On 5/27/2022 at 10:03 AM, wox33 said:

This will be my 8th Lefevre glove and the only one I ever had any issue with was the Eflex 4 and that it took maybe twice as long as the others to really break in. I really don't know where all complaints about them being super stiff come from.

Take a look at this thread. Here ArdeFIN explains why Lefebvre gloves have closure problems. You had issues with the EFlex 4, I had issues with the Reebok 24K XLT Premier glove, and ArdeFIN had issues with a CCM Premier 2.9 (the entry-level CCM Premier glove). Given that more than one Lefebvre glove line has closure problems, I can conclude that there is a real issue with those gloves closing. Fingers crossed that True corrected those design flaws. However, I'll have to try on a True glove in a store to confirm. 

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1 hour ago, ilyazhito said:

Take a look at this thread. Here ArdeFIN explains why Lefebvre gloves have closure problems. You had issues with the EFlex 4, I had issues with the Reebok 24K XLT Premier glove, and ArdeFIN had issues with a CCM Premier 2.9 (the entry-level CCM Premier glove). Given that more than one Lefebvre glove line has closure problems, I can conclude that there is a real issue with those gloves closing. Fingers crossed that True corrected those design flaws. However, I'll have to try on a True glove in a store to confirm. 

None of those gloves that you mentioned are truly Lefevre gloves. Also, the Premier 2.9 js not the entry level catcher, that would be the Premier 2.5.

All of the gloves that you are talking about are overseas SR or overseas SR Pro. Not the same as a Canadian-made Lefevre.

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The CCM Premier II was the last edition of gloves and pads that Lefebvre made on behalf of CCM. The gloves would say "CCM by Lefevre" on them (My CCM Premier II pads said "CCM by Lefevre" on the thigh rise). I stand corrected, the 2.9 was the intermediate-level catcher, just like my old set of regular glove and blocker.

M. Lefebvre did not make those gloves personally, but they have his name on them. Thus the design was his responsibility. I would not be surprised if the Canadian-made pro gloves did not have issues because they were made of better materials that could compensate for the design flaws. My question was whether the True glove design had changed to eliminate the design flaws that ArdeFIN had identified. 

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1 hour ago, ilyazhito said:

The CCM Premier II was the last edition of gloves and pads that Lefebvre made on behalf of CCM. The gloves would say "CCM by Lefevre" on them (My CCM Premier II pads said "CCM by Lefevre" on the thigh rise). I stand corrected, the 2.9 was the intermediate-level catcher, just like my old set of regular glove and blocker.

M. Lefebvre did not make those gloves personally, but they have his name on them. Thus the design was his responsibility. I would not be surprised if the Canadian-made pro gloves did not have issues because they were made of better materials that could compensate for the design flaws. My question was whether the True glove design had changed to eliminate the design flaws that ArdeFIN had identified. 

There's a lot of things wrong with your statement.  For one, Lefevre provided design up to Eflex 4 for CCM, the partnership did not end at CCM Premier 2

Every piece of gear branded CCM by Lefevre since Reebok Premier 4 has been made overseas.  Yes, they're Lefevre designed, but mass produced by a factory in Asia. 

I have owned: Koho 560, 580, 590 (two sets), 588, Reebok Premier 1, Premier 3, CCM Eflex 1, Eflex 4, Lefevre 20.1 (two sets) and True 20.2.  Of these, the two Eflex lines were made overseas.

I have had zero issue closing any of these gloves.

If you really wanna dredge up old threads, you asked this same question 3 months ago and were given the same response by multiple people on here.  Gloves below Pro level seem to have this issue most often.

 

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1 hour ago, ilyazhito said:

The CCM Premier II was the last edition of gloves and pads that Lefebvre made on behalf of CCM. The gloves would say "CCM by Lefevre" on them (My CCM Premier II pads said "CCM by Lefevre" on the thigh rise). I stand corrected, the 2.9 was the intermediate-level catcher, just like my old set of regular glove and blocker.

M. Lefebvre did not make those gloves personally, but they have his name on them. Thus the design was his responsibility. I would not be surprised if the Canadian-made pro gloves did not have issues because they were made of better materials that could compensate for the design flaws. My question was whether the True glove design had changed to eliminate the design flaws that ArdeFIN had identified. 

Again, you have some bad info. EF4 was the last set of gear that Lefevre designed for CCM and built for the pros.

Lefevre only designed the Pro-level gear. Any SR-level pricepoint gear was built by CCM. Any design choices to change the pro-level builds and bring the cost of the materials down was probably down to CCM. Any quality issues is on CCM as they ran the factory, not Lefevre.

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The quality issues had plagued stuff with the Lefevre name, not necessarily stuff made by Lefevre, since the Reebok days at least. I have not owned any pre-Reebok stuff with the Lefevre brand. I believe you that the pro-level stuff has no issues, but I am worried that the lower-level stuff from True will be as bad as the old Lefevre-branded lower price point stuff. 

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13 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

There's a lot of things wrong with your statement.  For one, Lefevre provided design up to Eflex 4 for CCM, the partnership did not end at CCM Premier 2

Every piece of gear branded CCM by Lefevre since Reebok Premier 4 has been made overseas.  Yes, they're Lefevre designed, but mass produced by a factory in Asia. 

I have owned: Koho 560, 580, 590 (two sets), 588, Reebok Premier 1, Premier 3, CCM Eflex 1, Eflex 4, Lefevre 20.1 (two sets) and True 20.2.  Of these, the two Eflex lines were made overseas.

I have had zero issue closing any of these gloves.

If you really wanna dredge up old threads, you asked this same question 3 months ago and were given the same response by multiple people on here.  Gloves below Pro level seem to have this issue most often.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't EFlex 4 and Premier II released in the same year? I referred to Premier II, because that is what I actually owned and used. 

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59 minutes ago, ilyazhito said:

The quality issues had plagued stuff with the Lefevre name, not necessarily stuff made by Lefevre, since the Reebok days at least. I have not owned any pre-Reebok stuff with the Lefevre brand. I believe you that the pro-level stuff has no issues, but I am worried that the lower-level stuff from True will be as bad as the old Lefevre-branded lower price point stuff. 

How do you know the line has had issues if you haven't used it for yourself? 

 

59 minutes ago, ilyazhito said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't EFlex 4 and Premier II released in the same year? I referred to Premier II, because that is what I actually owned and used. 

You are wrong

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1 hour ago, ilyazhito said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't EFlex 4 and Premier II released in the same year? I referred to Premier II, because that is what I actually owned and used. 

Premier 2: 2018

https://www.thehockeyshop.com/blogs/goalie-gear-reviews/ccm-premier-ii-leg-pads

Eflex 4: 2019

https://www.thehockeyshop.com/blogs/goalie-gear-reviews/ccm-extreme-flex-4-leg-pads-review

 

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1 hour ago, Chenner29 said:

How do you know the line has had issues if you haven't used it for yourself? 

 

You are wrong

I know that Reebok had issues, because I used Reebok gloves. @ser33 can also attest to issues with Reebok gloves, and @ArdeFIN can attest to problems with the CCM gloves with the Lefevre name on them. If any old Koho users can chime in, that would be appreciated. My point is that there were systematic issues with lower price point Lefevre gloves, and I am concerned what this means once True stops exclusively producing made-in-Canada custom stuff for pros and other people willing to shell out 3K for a set. 

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Posted (edited)

Seems like this all boils down to - if you have done legitimate research and have reservations about a product - DON'T buy it.

If you've done legitimate research, satisfied your own curiosities and have a level of comfort and confidence in a product - DO buy it.

If you don't know what you're talking about - consider talking less... and maybe listen more intently to those who might know what they are talking about.

Just food for thought type stuff... for the internet in general. World peace type stuff and the like.

Edited by chile57
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8 minutes ago, chile57 said:

If you don't know what you're talking about - consider talking less... and maybe listen more intently to those who might know what they are talking about.

Jokes on you, I have no idea what I'm talking about but I'm super convincing. 

No one should ever listen to me. 

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Sweet set. Couple of questions.

1. How stiff is the thigh rise on the pads?

2. How’s the glove closure out of the box? And any pictures of how it closes? I was not particularly impressed with my CCM P2 double T 580. But most of what I’ve seen from True it looks like they’re much better. 

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@coopaloop1234 - isn't everybody "convincing" on the internet when they refuse to listen and ramrod their opinion over and over again until everyone else just gives up and/or ignores them? Seem like winning to some I'd be willing to bet. 😂

We're all winners on the internet... unless we are the ones getting irritated by the lack of common sense/civility. Then we're just... angry.

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7 minutes ago, chile57 said:

@coopaloop1234 - isn't everybody "convincing" on the internet when they refuse to listen and ramrod their opinion over and over again until everyone else just gives up and/or ignores them? Seem like winning to some I'd be willing to bet. 😂

We're all winners on the internet... unless we are the ones getting irritated by the lack of common sense/civility. Then we're just... angry.

See, I use my oozing charisma to win over internet folk. No need to strong arm here. :P 

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7 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

See, I use my oozing charisma to win over internet folk. No need to strong arm here. :P 

I know - we can smell our own you charming, handsome devil you.

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Posted (edited)

I can only say for what I've seen inside the gloves, atleast CCM Premier, Eflex3, P2.9, Eflex2 590 Custom, Eflex2, Eflex3.9, Eflex4.9, maybe some more that I don't remember right now.

Actually none of these gloves mentioned really closed well and neither did them open really well. They were kind of stuck into the half open state. Only P2.9 of these was after very little use and the others had seen more or less of play, usually more. But that still is addition to what someone mentioned in some other topic just recently. Really rare are the used gloves that close really well while most of the used ones are broken in somehow wrong and the closure is far from good.

So far I've still managed to make most of the repaired gloves to work. And still that isn't a full statement for all of those gloves needed redesign or fixing design issues. BUT, I've also pointed to many things that I would design differently if I was doing the design. 

And haven't we seen improvement on the CCM gloves in the latest generations of Eflex5 and Axis2? So atleast something is happening in the design department.

Reading this again I think I should start politic conversations. 😅 A lot of words with not so much to say or anything wise...

 

Edited by ArdeFIN
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, tgfoo said:

Sweet set. Couple of questions.

1. How stiff is the thigh rise on the pads?

2. How’s the glove closure out of the box? And any pictures of how it closes? I was not particularly impressed with my CCM P2 double T 580. But most of what I’ve seen from True it looks like they’re much better. 

1. Straight out of the box the thigh is very stiff. This is me putting a pretty good amount of force with one hand on them and they hardly move. 

2. Glove closure is good. I’ve only used one time so far and that’s about it for break in and it is very smooth. This is a game ready + palm. 

Edit: weird, videos seem to embed on mobile but not on desktop. I can’t get the gifs to load for some reason. 

Edited by wox33
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10 hours ago, ArdeFIN said:

I can only say for what I've seen inside the gloves, atleast CCM Premier, Eflex3, P2.9, Eflex2 590 Custom, Eflex2, Eflex3.9, Eflex4.9, maybe some more that I don't remember right now.

Actually none of these gloves mentioned really closed well and neither did them open really well. They were kind of stuck into the half open state. Only P2.9 of these was after very little use and the others had seen more or less of play, usually more. But that still is addition to what someone mentioned in some other topic just recently. Really rare are the used gloves that close really well while most of the used ones are broken in somehow wrong and the closure is far from good.

So far I've still managed to make most of the repaired gloves to work. And still that isn't a full statement for all of those gloves needed redesign or fixing design issues. BUT, I've also pointed to many things that I would design differently if I was doing the design. 

And haven't we seen improvement on the CCM gloves in the latest generations of Eflex5 and Axis2? So atleast something is happening in the design department.

Reading this again I think I should start politic conversations. 😅 A lot of words with not so much to say or anything wise...

 

I can't help but agree more. I did my homework, and know for sure that I will not buy True gloves until I confirm that their non-pro gloves actually work. I've been burned by Lefebvre non-pro gloves before and can point to other people with similar experience.

I'd be interested to see how the pads perform when it comes to.sliding and rebound hardness. 

 

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Posted (edited)

since ilyazhito also referred to my experience in his words, I believe that I should contribute my 5 kopecks

it's funny (not) to see how several people in an argument pounce on one and all their arguments boil down to "you don't understand anything"

and no proof that he was wrong

ArdeFIN has already confirmed above and based on my experience I fully agree with him that Lefevre's gloves are terrible to close and this is a design issue.

all the evidence of our words is in the topics of ArdeFIN. I highly recommend you read them carefully.

 

Edited by ser33
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Posted (edited)

I think some of you are missing the point I was trying to make...

1) Do your research (including asking "others").

2) Weigh the pros and cons as I'm willing to bet no matter what you are asking about - you will always find both if you dig even just a little.

3) Make an informed decision. For some that might mean you need a 90% confidence/10% doubt ratio... or 75%/25%... or 51%/49%. Spoiler alert - even the most informed decisions can backfire - every once and awhile you just have to bite the bullet and try shit for yourself (and it might not end up how you expected).

This doesn't include devolving into internet pissing matches and stating your point over and over ad nauseum. Make your point/provide your feedback and then move on. People will either take it or leave it. I don't see a lot of value in asking the same questions, getting the same answers and then arguing about it... over and over and over... to the tune of a dozen or so posts in two pages worth of a thread - just clutters the board and makes me want to avoid certain threads. But hey - this is the internet so I shouldn't expect anything less.

Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree and go your separate ways. End rant.

Edited by chile57
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On 5/26/2022 at 12:24 PM, ArdeFIN said:

Can you measure the perimeter length of the catcher, is the same inch or so off from rule limited 45" as many other gloves are? I like the shape of the 580 but for the few times I've had one on hand they never seem to open wide and remain looking really small. Yes I am a pancake glove lover. 🙃

Finally found the fabric tape. It came right to 45”

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15 hours ago, chile57 said:

I think some of you are missing the point I was trying to make...

1) Do your research (including asking "others").

2) Weigh the pros and cons as I'm willing to bet no matter what you are asking about - you will always find both if you dig even just a little.

3) Make an informed decision. For some that might mean you need a 90% confidence/10% doubt ratio... or 75%/25%... or 51%/49%. Spoiler alert - even the most informed decisions can backfire - every once and awhile you just have to bite the bullet and try shit for yourself (and it might not end up how you expected).

This doesn't include devolving into internet pissing matches and stating your point over and over ad nauseum. Make your point/provide your feedback and then move on. People will either take it or leave it. I don't see a lot of value in asking the same questions, getting the same answers and then arguing about it... over and over and over... to the tune of a dozen or so posts in two pages worth of a thread - just clutters the board and makes me want to avoid certain threads. But hey - this is the internet so I shouldn't expect anything less.

Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree and go your separate ways. End rant.

But but but...

image.thumb.png.a25af3ea97764df88c134a927c52a67b.png

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7 minutes ago, wox33 said:

@Chenner29 As far as the nylon knee strap goes, are you wearing it fairly tight like it's still elastic or are you treating it more like the old leather straps where it's pretty loose.

I’m wearing it snug. I left the Velcro coming out of the knee block portion as it came from Lefevre and running it down and directly across from the second letter down of the True badge on the side logo.  
My thinking is to create some tension against my outer knee so it responds better when I recover to my feet. 
I’ll get a picture for you when I get home. I started updating my thread last night (I’m on my “30 day update” 120 days later lol) and need pics for it anyway. 

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