Let's Talk Skates

[insertnamehere]

12 minutes ago, bunnyman666 said:

I am the most infamous hater of the cowlingless goal skate! Look on this site and you will find my tirades. 

My incident may be a freak accident, but I could not put much weight on the ball of my foot for a couple of days. That scared the hell out of me and I got myself back into a cowling post-haste!!!

Cowling-free is not for me!!!!

I saw a little bit of that when I was checking that there wasn't a generic skate discussion thread. That's what I'm a little worried about if I switched over to no cowling. 

[IPv6Freely]

No need to worry about that. Flukes happen. I plan on switching as soon as possible - there’s just nothing wrong with the VH I have now.

[Chenner29]

I'm currently in a cowlingless True/VH.  I have the True boot with the Bauer runner.

The height of the holder takes a bit of adjustment - you may not experience that since you are already using the Extreme size runners.

I'd say there are two huge performance gains:

- one is the custom fit of the boot.  My feet don't hurt, even after 2 hour practices (I occasionally fill in as a target for a local ACHA college)
- another is the attack angle of the blade.  I never slip out anymore.

I've taken plenty of shots to the toe, and a few to the inside of the boot from Junior A and college kids, haven't felt a thing.

[BadAngle41]

8 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

I'm currently in a cowlingless True/VH.  I have the True boot with the Bauer runner.

The height of the holder takes a bit of adjustment - you may not experience that since you are already using the Extreme size runners.

I'd say there are two huge performance gains:

- one is the custom fit of the boot.  My feet don't hurt, even after 2 hour practices (I occasionally fill in as a target for a local ACHA college)
- another is the attack angle of the blade.  I never slip out anymore.

I've taken plenty of shots to the toe, and a few to the inside of the boot from Junior A and college kids, haven't felt a thing.

I'm in cowlingless S190s w/ Tydan DLC Steel (a SIGNIFICANT upgrade from stock Bauer steel) and I'd echo @Chenner29's comments. Not to minimize @bunnyman666's experience, perhaps I just don't leave me instep as exposed, but I too have taken plenty off the toe haven't felt a thing. The only bullet point I would add is...

• WEIGHT REDUCTION - I'm not a crazy weight reduction guy but the feel of cowlingless over a cowling in terms of weight is undeniable. It's like going from winter boots to a track spike.

[cwarnar]

The new CCM AS1 Tacks might be the best of both worlds. 

I've always been a Bauer guy (breifly wore both Koho 580 and Graf Pro goalers) but I'm definitely gonna give them a look.  Best of both worlds I think 

[TheGoalNet]

Those AS1 skates literally have like a flex joint at the ankle. It’s a softer ankle composite and a stiff base composite. I’ll try to get cool videos if I can... 

@bunnyman666 - NOW THIS IS A SKATE 

[bunnyman666]

14 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

Those AS1 skates literally have like a flex joint at the ankle. It’s a softer ankle composite and a stiff base composite. I’ll try to get cool videos if I can... 

@bunnyman666 - NOW THIS IS A SKATE 

I need holy water!!!!!

[ULTIMA]

Nope. Still not sold on one piece skates. Even though CCM is my brand, it's not happening.

[IPv6Freely]

Just now, ULTIMA said:

Nope. Still not sold on one piece skates. Even though CCM is my brand, it's not happening.

What's holding you back?

[Kayen]

4 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

Those AS1 skates literally have like a flex joint at the ankle. It’s a softer ankle composite and a stiff base composite. I’ll try to get cool videos if I can... 

@bunnyman666 - NOW THIS IS A SKATE 

@TheGoalNet wow. I am legitimately interested in that skate now. I tried on the CCM Ribcor's at PHL a few days ago and they fit my foot much, much better than Bauer Supremes/Vapors ever did for me. I wonder how reinforced the toe cap underneath the cowlings on CCM skates are, especially with the AS1 skate, a flexible ankle but stiffer base sounds ideal for comfort and power generation on pushes. I also love my Vertexx Holder/Tydan Blade combo as well. 

[TheGoalNet]

That photo is a custom skate someone had made. It’s a CCM with Vertexx. 

AS1 has CCM’s current version of the holder which is a hybrid. Attack angle should be similar to a Vertexx, but it has a toe cap 

[oncogene]

On 1/28/2018 at 3:59 PM, insertnamehere said:

To start, I've been using the same RBK 9k (when 9k was top of the line) skates since 2010 and recently added Step Steel Extreme blades to them. I also use Overdrive Blades because they save my groin and obviously provide other advantages. The attack angle improvement was significant with the addition of the new blades. 

How many of you have made the switch to a cowlingless goalie skate? If you have, did it make a noticeable difference?

Have any of you gone to a cowlingless skate and then back to a traditional goalie skate? 

Thanks! 

I also had RBK 9K, also with Step steel (but not Extreme) and also with overdrive  Good skates but were obviously gotten really soft over the years. I had to tie the laces increasing tighter and the lace bite was just killing me.

Just took the plunge and got the Bauer Vapor 1X since Oct. Couldn't be happier. Can definitely feel the difference of the lower attack angle (due to higher boot/holder and without cowling). The stiff composite boots are super nice, at least for me who do like tight fitting skates.

The biggest adjustment is making sure not to tighten the lace too much (or as much with the old RBK). The boot is stiff so over-tightening can really hurt after a while into the game.

[TheGoalNet]

@netminder contact Tyden blades on Instagram 

[TheGoalNet]

I’ve also been thinking about a recent skepticism / desire to understand True better I’ve had. 

If their best competitive advantage is fit, that’s not something that Bauer and CCM can’t copy and do better. For the older guys, we know Rod from @TGC-Rance used to kill it will customs Bauers. 

Bauer spends $8mio annually on hockey r&d. If they want to be number 1 in NHL goalie skate, they could allocate resources to scale their custom program. If we argue the monoque boot is unique, CCM is launching theirs soon. The fit and finish on it is beautiful. 

My point; could True be a flash in the pan? Is their best case scenario that they reach Graf market share levels and then level off?

[IPv6Freely]

No.

[coopaloop1234]

54 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

No.

May want to elaborate on your points.

I agree with you though. The custom fit portion of the True/VH skate is being highly touted for a reason. The responsiveness and power that a lot of guys are finding with the True boot doesn't seem to be a Graf comfort type of thing. As long as True keeps up with industry standards in technology aside from their customization (like the 2 piece), then I see them being around for a while.

Though, I'm hoping that as they grow, they'll be more economical in their production of these skates and that they'll be able to reduce their costs. Spending 1 grand on a skate I can't hold and try prior (despite numerous claims of them being absolutely amazing) still irks me. Granted, economies of scale doesn't exactly work too well in a custom 1 off order scenario, so that may be a pipe dream for me. 

[cwarnar]

@TheGoalNet I think True/VH has carved a niche in the market for custom boots... For pure skates in the goalie market, not quite there yet.  For the pros, I'd be doing True boots for sure, just with a different holder or cowling.  But for a good old Beer League/Rec goalie, $699 CAD for boots only... I would be willing to suck up minor fit issues and go with a Bauer product.

I've also had my interested peaked by both the Graf 1080 and the CCM AS1.

It also seems the True 1 piece skate has failed to catch on with the mainstream group of goalies.

[bunnyman666]

I would love an off the shelf option, but it seems that True is the only way. I don’t think Bauer or CCM care about custom or even if their skates fit a wider range of feet. The Reebok Pump was the last skate to fit me well off the shelf, and then the toe box got super-narrow. 

[coopaloop1234]

21 minutes ago, bunnyman666 said:

I would love an off the shelf option, but it seems that True is the only way. I don’t think Bauer or CCM care about custom or even if their skates fit a wider range of feet. The Reebok Pump was the last skate to fit me well off the shelf, and then the toe box got super-narrow. 

And their toe box is still a lot wider than Bauer. Only reason I can't use Bauer. My toes don't fit.

[bunnyman666]

9 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

And their toe box is still a lot wider than Bauer. Only reason I can't use Bauer. My toes don't fit.

Yep- I could not feel comfortable in the toe box in Bauer. I have the horrible combination of super-narrow heel with super-wide toes...

[IPv6Freely]

4 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

May want to elaborate on your points.

I'd say "I don't care enough to bother" but I know how you'd respond to that  

Truthfully, I've just said my bit so many times on here and the questions still come up and honestly I'm just far too lazy to type up my thoughts on the topic AGAIN. You could say "then why even comment?" to which I honestly don't have an answer. I have an opinion on the question asked but after seeing the same questions over and over it's kind of a "this again? we get it, you don't believe in the product, but how many times can we explain it?" so I comment almost purely out of annoyance. 

Hope that makes sense. 

[Hills]

Until Bauer and CCM make skates that mold as well as True's do nothing will beat True for fit at the retail level.

[TheGoalNet]

The AS1 is a 1 piece boot and it’s a more polished design. So any energy transfer tech from True is now in CCM. 

Bauer has a foot scanner at retail. It’s only logical they scale their custom program with that tech. Bauer has been building custom skates longer than True has been in the hockey market. It’s a market they neglected, but they are more than capable 

I think everyone is a bit naive if they don’t Bauer and/or CCM will compete in the custom product. CCM has attacked Bauer already talking about the fit of their player skates at retail. It’s a logical guess this narrative will continue to goal. 

From a neutral marketing standpoint, True can be the craftsmen brand or the made in Canada brand, but I think Bauer and CCM will beat with them with materials, technology, scanners, and lead times. 

[bunnyman666]

@TheGoalNet can you confirm that Bauer still has their pro/custom skate factory in Canada? 

[IPv6Freely]

47 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

The AS1 is a 1 piece boot and it’s a more polished design. So any energy transfer tech from True is now in CCM. 

Bauer has a foot scanner at retail. It’s only logical they scale their custom program with that tech. Bauer has been building custom skates longer than True has been in the hockey market. It’s a market they neglected, but they are more than capable 

I think everyone is a bit naive if they don’t Bauer and/or CCM will compete in the custom product. CCM has attacked Bauer already talking about the fit of their player skates at retail. It’s a logical guess this narrative will continue to goal. 

From a neutral marketing standpoint, True can be the craftsmen brand or the made in Canada brand, but I think Bauer and CCM will beat with them with materials, technology, scanners, and lead times. 

Disagree.