Money Talk (Mutual Funds, ETFs, Stocks & Bonds, Real Estate, Cryptocurrency, your cookie jar)

[RichMan]

So a while back I started a thread on cryptocurrency that caught fire, for a minute, then was blown out in a flash. A lot of people are still not in or confident or simply believe it to be a hoax. IRAgardless ( @SaveByRichter35 ), there are many other ways to create some form of cash flow. Here is where you can chime in on your experiences. Share some tips if you're keen to. Got any questions, ask away. Suggest online sources or e-courses or good books on the subject...be it free or not.

School has never been the place to learn about finances, budgets and investments unless in college or university, and even then, it seems like programs are simply meant to produce employees, not entrepreneurs or employers. At home, money was less talked about, hard to get by, a vile and manipulative device against "the people". Save your money! Work hard! Another day, another dollar! (that last one kills me, feels depressive).

I'm 53 and have always worked to make someone else rich(er). My sideline goalie coaching is certainly not worthy of FORTUNE 500 mention. I would like to know that when I do call it quits (work) or am forced to, that I won't be living off the bottom of the barrel. I don't want to work till my last breath just to pay the rent and eat. Some of you are probably holding very well paying jobs and I commend you for that. You hustled hard enough to make it there, and if you don't live above your means, play smart, you are looking at a comfortable and worry free retirement. Kudos on you . At this very moment, in writing this thread, I am nowhere near where I need or ought to be to live a nice retirement and this is why I've been looking into small time investments to hopefully make it grow fast enough so I too may relish in my dreams and passions and possibly accomplish the greater part of my personal bucket list.

So please feel free to participate. Respect the difference of opinions and don't forget to quote and/or use the @username symbol to keep within the proper conversations.

Thanks

 

[insertnamehere]

Not gonna lie and say I didn't get lucky, because that certainly was part of it, but I got a good paying government job with a pension which I started at the ripe old age of 20. I'll never be "rich" doing this, but also shouldn't ever be paycheck to paycheck as long as I'm not an idiot with spending. 

I should probably invest more than I do, but my viewpoint is that as long as all the bills are paid and there's some extra for potential emergencies, all is well. I'd also rather make memories and do things I like now rather than be a miser and have more money in retirement. I could die next week and know that at least I got to take my kids to Disney World and whatnot. 

My advice is don't take advice from r/wallstreetbets

Edited September 25, 2022 by insertnamehere

[RichMan]

1 hour ago, insertnamehere said:

Not gonna lie and say I didn't get lucky, because that certainly was part of it, but I got a good paying government job with a pension which I started at the ripe old age of 20. I'll never be "rich" doing this, but also shouldn't ever be paycheck to paycheck as long as I'm not an idiot with spending. 

I should probably invest more than I do, but my viewpoint is that as long as all the bills are paid and there's some extra for potential emergencies, all is well. I'd also rather make memories and do things I like now rather than be a miser and have more money in retirement. I could die next week and know that at least I got to take my kids to Disney World and whatnot. 

My advice is don't take advice from r/wallstreetbets

Don't know them but I'll keep it in mind. Being in Canada I have to figure out which brokers can access the Toronto Exchange and the other side (Wallstreet, NASDAQ, etc) and international currencies. I was playing in crypto, very small change, and it's not going too far. I put 300$CAD so far and it has fallen down to 1/3 of that the past 6 months. I was going to take it all out but I guess I'm still hoping for a good kickback. I'm now eyeing ETFs, just trying to understand how it works and also waiting to have a reasonable amount to invest before I jump in, at least a 1000$.

Been also reading up on some Rich Dad Poor Dad stuff. Trying to learn about assets and cash flow, using dept to my advantage and other money education. Apparently real estate is the way to go but at the moment I can't even qualify for a house of my own so...more work to be done.

[CJ Boiss]

Crypto is scam and the best financial advice I can give is to stay faaaaar away from it. If you want to invest in something, make it anything but crypto.

[johncho]

I've been pretty lucky with Crypto before I got out, I had bought just over 1 BTC on a whim when it was about 30$ and another when it was about 200$, I took out about 0.1 every so often to buy a few stuff around the house. But I don't think I would get back into it again.

I've also been lucky with learning about Time x Compound Interest at a young age. Please if you are young, learn about it, and stay away from Investment managers that want to sell you on funds that have more than 2~3% MER ("management fees"). @RichMan best thing right now is to fill up your TFSA with funds that match your needs,  read https://canadiancouchpotato.com/ and stay away from other fund sites who usually have ulterior motives (Motley Fool used to be an amazing site, but now it seems like it's promoting a lot of pump and dump funds).

Edited September 26, 2022 by johncho

[RichMan]

34 minutes ago, johncho said:

I've been pretty lucky with Crypto before I got out, I had bought just over 1 BTC on a whim when it was about 30$ and another when it was about 200$, I took out about 0.1 every so often to buy a few stuff around the house. But I don't think I would get back into it again.

I've also been lucky with learning about Time x Compound Interest at a young age. Please if you are young, learn about it, and stay away from Investment managers that want to sell you on funds that have more than 2~3% MER ("management fees"). @RichMan best thing right now is to fill up your TFSA with funds that match your needs,  read https://canadiancouchpotato.com/ and stay away from other fund sites who usually have ulterior motives (Motley Fool used to be an amazing site, but now it seems like it's promoting a lot of pump and dump funds).

I'm happy you got the opportunity to learn about this stuff at an early age. When Bitcoin came out, it seemed like a fiction story, the next catch, scam, banks and analysts were downplaying it like it was the plague or a joke. Had I known better or at least understood how money works, I'd be counting my millions too by now. 

I just looked around on the subject of TFSA and apparently my bank has a program. Did I ever hear about it from them? Nada! I've been a client with them for 30+ years. So much for looking out for the client. I'll read more into it once I have something to contribute financially.

As for the couchpotato link, it seems to be a hack or something.

[MTH]

The RIch Dad Poor Dad book was annoying. I owned rental property. It wasn't the cash cow that everyone thinks (especially tenants). Selling was the best thing I did as it relived the stress on me and my wife. Plan was to have property that we could give our kids and they could grow from that. The book just reinforced the fact that you need money to make money. I should just write books like that myself and make a killing.

I have been sitting on the sideline of Crypto since 2012. I had a kid who was coaching my now 16 year old son tell me that all his referee salary he just buys Bitcoin. I wonder how rich he is now... I recall looking at it then and thinking it was a scam. Should have just put a few hundred in then.

Rich - the best advice personally that I do is just to eliminate as much (or all) debt you have. Obviously credit card interest is off the wall. So by eliminating any of that, you're making 20%+ in interest you aren't paying.

I see there are peer to peer lending sites. I wonder what it takes to lend into that? The returns are pretty solid at 15%. The British Pound dropped to about $1 USD today. Grab some of that.

This is a good thread as I've been looking for this info too.

[wvuviv30]

Are there any good site to read up on?  I'm late to the game, but I'm just starting/wanting to buy some Stocks.

[RichMan]

32 minutes ago, MTH said:

The RIch Dad Poor Dad book was annoying. I owned rental property. It wasn't the cash cow that everyone thinks (especially tenants). Selling was the best thing I did as it relived the stress on me and my wife. Plan was to have property that we could give our kids and they could grow from that. The book just reinforced the fact that you need money to make money. I should just write books like that myself and make a killing.

I have been sitting on the sideline of Crypto since 2012. I had a kid who was coaching my now 16 year old son tell me that all his referee salary he just buys Bitcoin. I wonder how rich he is now... I recall looking at it then and thinking it was a scam. Should have just put a few hundred in then.

Rich - the best advice personally that I do is just to eliminate as much (or all) debt you have. Obviously credit card interest is off the wall. So by eliminating any of that, you're making 20%+ in interest you aren't paying.

I see there are peer to peer lending sites. I wonder what it takes to lend into that? The returns are pretty solid at 15%. The British Pound dropped to about $1 USD today. Grab some of that.

This is a good thread as I've been looking for this info too.

I've been Youtubing and podcasting Rich Dad Poor Dad content and you are right on the fact that he is repeating himself a lot. I kinda get the program but as you say, you need money to make money. He said you can make money off dept, off credit, off other people's money. He's not the only one to say it. It's hard enough to qualify for anything these days through your bank and depending on your credit limit and your monthly income, what you want to achieve might not reflect what you can achieve.

The neighbourhood I live in is full of people who own more than one property (their house) and with their regular job or business, they are banking in money pretty well. I'm guessing it depends on what kind of real estate you are in. Flipping is a win or lose game, not interested. Buying to rent out seemed the best choice but you say different. I'd like to hear why it didn't work well for you if you don't mind sharing.

[johncho]

Having an investment property is great, if your tenants are good. Their rent could cover the mortgage, and the eventual rise in the property value of the property is basically a hedge against inflation/property value increase. I've been lucky to have a good tenant, but I've had some terrible ones too.

https://canadiancouchpotato.com/model-portfolios/ site is legit, their https token is expired, so just give it some time and it they will prob update it soon. In the meanwhile, https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianInvestor/ is a good resource too.

TFSA is basically a fund that grows tax-free, where you can place a set amount per year, that amount adds up so if you haven't placed the limit set that year, you can still use it the next year (it's been like 5k a year with some years being 10k, look at the CRA website for the amount you can contribute). The fund inside it grows tax-free. You can withdraw from that fund at anytime, and whatever you withdraw, you can add back into the TFSA next year. Please read up on it, and how it differs from your RRSP which is also important.

[MTH]

I had good tenants. My rent was a little low - but the quality of a tenant outweighed pushing them out with higher rent cost. Repairs were a huge wildcard.

[coopaloop1234]

The only way there's money in the rental game is through numbers. Renting out a single or maybe two properties isn't going to be a large enough cash positive to bother trying to leverage as an 'income'. 

Tenants are there to cover the costs of the mortgage/taxes to alleviate the long term gains of the increase in value of the property. 

Hope for good tenants and let the investment grow accordingly. 

[ZeroGravitas]

I got lucky and got into it when I was young. I invested (read: gambled because I didn't really look at the financials) it on AMZN, TSLA, and FB (amongst other things) back in 2012/2013 and grew it to a sizable amount.

Recent volatility has got me thinking about transitioning the majority of my investments in my taxable account investing towards passively-managed index funds (https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Bogleheads®_investment_philosophy). But that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

So my advice - especially to anyone under 30 - is to get in the market and stay in. I've got a 1,373.94% gain in TSLA as of today, almost 700% in AMZN because I got in 8-10 years ago.

[MTH]

I'm heavy in a 401k. (Maybe not as heavy since Biden). I invested the max since I started working and never let off the gas since.

I think that's the American version of a TFSA. Just better, because it's American.

 

[SaveByRichter35]

The timing of this thread couldn't have been better because I just recently got an email from Binance saying 

Quote

Dear User
 
As previously communicated, we have noted that you are identified as a US person.  Our terms of use explicitly state that we are unable to service US persons.  We had therefore requested that you close all active positions and withdraw all your assets from your account.  To date, we note that there are still assets in your account. 
 
As a resident of the US, if you want to continue trading in digital assets, you have multiple exchange options, including Binance.US, to which you can transfer your assets.  If you choose Binance.US, a list of digital assets supported on that exchange is available by clicking the link below.

Idk wtf any of this means.  I don't really do much with anything.  I bought some $200 in Litecoin a few years ago, maybe 5 now, when it started heating up.  Haven't touched it since.  I sometimes monitor how its doing but it was pretty much one of those set it and forget it things for me.  I'm sure I am down to pennies on the dollar from where I bought it so at this point it is what it is.

Aside from that, financial talk scares the shit out of me because I don't understand any of it.  I have a Roth 401k that I've been contributing to since I've had my job the last 10 years.  I have no idea what I invest it in, I just picked one of those preset accounts that the company offers.  Another set it and forget it.  I had over $100k in it in January.  I've lost around $20k since.  Everyone just says to let it go, it'll rebound.

[coopaloop1234]

5 minutes ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

  I had over $100k in it in January.  I've lost around $20k since.  Everyone just says to let it go, it'll rebound.

That's the correct call, especially as you're a far ways off from retirement. 

Markets across the board have been down for a while that pulling out now would be premature and lock in your losses. 

[ZeroGravitas]

45 minutes ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

The timing of this thread couldn't have been better because I just recently got an email from Binance saying 

Idk wtf any of this means.  I don't really do much with anything.  I bought some $200 in Litecoin a few years ago, maybe 5 now, when it started heating up.  Haven't touched it since.  I sometimes monitor how its doing but it was pretty much one of those set it and forget it things for me.  I'm sure I am down to pennies on the dollar from where I bought it so at this point it is what it is.

I just Wiki'd Binance and and lol jesus christ:

Quote

In 2021, Binance was put under investigation by both the United States Department of Justice and Internal Revenue Service on allegations of money laundering and tax offenses.^[3][4][5] The UK's Financial Conduct Authority ordered Binance to stop all regulated activity in the United Kingdom in June 2021.^[6]

In 2021, Binance shared client data, including names and addresses, with the Russian government.^[7]

 

47 minutes ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

I have a Roth 401k that I've been contributing to since I've had my job the last 10 years.  I have no idea what I invest it in, I just picked one of those preset accounts that the company offers.  Another set it and forget it.  I had over $100k in it in January.  I've lost around $20k since.  Everyone just says to let it go, it'll rebound.

You're contributing, which is better than most people ever do. You can go a step further and take a look at that pre-set fund that you're buying into and look at the associated expenses/expense ratio. Anything over 0.75% is kinda high.

Everyone lost money in these last 9-12 months - I think I'm down approximately $80-90k across all my accounts. It'll rebound. Eventually. In the meantime, think of it as buying whatever stock/funds at a discount.

[SaveByRichter35]

15 minutes ago, ZeroGravitas said:

I just Wiki'd Binance and and lol jesus christ:

In 2021, Binance was put under investigation by both the United States Department of Justice and Internal Revenue Service on allegations of money laundering and tax offenses.[3][4][5] The UK's Financial Conduct Authority ordered Binance to stop all regulated activity in the United Kingdom in June 2021.[6]

In 2021, Binance shared client data, including names and addresses, with the Russian government.[7]

Jesus Christ is right.  WTF???!!!!?!?!!!!!  How have I never heard of this sooner?  Like I said, I got in on it a few years ago when Litecoin started skyrocketing out of nowhere and everyone was saying it was going to be the next Bitcoin.  I got in on it too late anyway.  I think I bought it at $200 and then it never got much higher than $600 iirc and then it started falling back down again to about $300.  Same thing, everyone was saying to ride it out and see where it goes.  Then this year it tanked bad.  It got to the point it was pretty much a lost cause, I left it in case it ever goes up again.  if it does and gets anywhere near the $200-300 range I planned on just selling it all back and walking away from it entirely.  I guess I am fucked now.  Oh well, I have wasted $200 on worse things before lol

[CJ Boiss]

3 hours ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

The timing of this thread couldn't have been better because I just recently got an email from Binance saying 

Idk wtf any of this means.

Various countries are at different stages in terms of figuring out how to legislate the trade of crypto, and assets built on crypto. Having traders from Country X trade through the subsidiary of a crypto exchange that isn't headquartered in Country X (Binance making Americans trade through Binance.US) might help insulate the parent company from any incoming legal troubles. (like, for instance, when the IRS inevitably audits crypto traders for not accurately reporting "income" generated by their trading, or when the SEC steps it to bitchslap everyone running pump and dump schemes)

I mean, Binance in particular has other trouble to deal with, but the entirety of Web3.0 and blockchain/crypto trading is shady as fuck, and we're going to see hammers coming down over the next decade as legislators and government bureaucrats figure things out.

[MTH]

All I know is that I have a ton of junk wax era baseball cards in a box in the basement that I swore was going to pay for my college.

[RichMan]

I don't understand half of what y'all have written, but I'm digging it  

I need a lucky break with the lottery   

[MadsM]

Every month I am investing 4% of my pay and my employer adds another 8% so that roughly translates to 600 usd that is then invested by a pension fund which also supplies some insurances and stuff. It's a system that is broadly used and have been since I started working and at the age of 28 I got 10k in that fund. Been earning around 10% yearly on it.

[RecoveringGoalie1]

Anything that appears too good to be true, likely is. Crypto is a classic example of this - grandiose promises of unheard of returns with no actual utility to the underlying coins that are being hawked by grifters. It's a zero sum game that is a form of gambling at its heart. For every dollar someone makes out of crypto, someone had to lose that dollar in the first place. You'll see the stories of people who made millions, but they don't mention those millions came from thousands of individuals who bought high and sold low to enable that person to make their millions. Nothing is 'created' by crypto in terms of new money, it's existing money chasing impossible returns and there will be winners and losers. Odds are you will end up on the losing side, statistically speaking.

If you're not incredibly financially literate, using debt in an attempt to become wealthy is highly inadvisable and is a great path towards ending up bankrupt and in debt for the rest of your life. Unfortunately the days of a single income person working an average job and being able to comfortably buy a home, cars, have kids, and so on are well behind us.

The best way to get ahead is to invest into yourself. Whether that's education to stand out as a candidate or to fill a niche, starting a small business, working towards a promotion at work, or going to do jobs that pay well but aren't popular such as Oil and Gas, or mining camps that you need to fly in and fly out of and work 3 weeks straight. If you can get a government/city job with a pension, you're ahead of most people and are more or less set for life.

In terms of growing wealth the two primary ways to do it that are low risk but require significant investments of capital are investing into broad index funds (I'm a big fan of VEQT from Vanguard, but any S&P 500 index tracker will do), and investing into real estate. The caveat being that either path requires capital in the first place for it to grow. 5% a year on $500 won't get you far, but 5% a year on 100K+ over many years will make a significant difference down the line.

[RichMan]

3 hours ago, RecoveringGoalie1 said:

Anything that appears too good to be true, likely is. Crypto is a classic example of this - grandiose promises of unheard of returns with no actual utility to the underlying coins that are being hawked by grifters. It's a zero sum game that is a form of gambling at its heart. For every dollar someone makes out of crypto, someone had to lose that dollar in the first place. You'll see the stories of people who made millions, but they don't mention those millions came from thousands of individuals who bought high and sold low to enable that person to make their millions. Nothing is 'created' by crypto in terms of new money, it's existing money chasing impossible returns and there will be winners and losers. Odds are you will end up on the losing side, statistically speaking.

If you're not incredibly financially literate, using debt in an attempt to become wealthy is highly inadvisable and is a great path towards ending up bankrupt and in debt for the rest of your life. Unfortunately the days of a single income person working an average job and being able to comfortably buy a home, cars, have kids, and so on are well behind us.

The best way to get ahead is to invest into yourself. Whether that's education to stand out as a candidate or to fill a niche, starting a small business, working towards a promotion at work, or going to do jobs that pay well but aren't popular such as Oil and Gas, or mining camps that you need to fly in and fly out of and work 3 weeks straight. If you can get a government/city job with a pension, you're ahead of most people and are more or less set for life.

In terms of growing wealth the two primary ways to do it that are low risk but require significant investments of capital are investing into broad index funds (I'm a big fan of VEQT from Vanguard, but any S&P 500 index tracker will do), and investing into real estate. The caveat being that either path requires capital in the first place for it to grow. 5% a year on $500 won't get you far, but 5% a year on 100K+ over many years will make a significant difference down the line.

Been listening to some Gary Vee to?  

[MTH]

13 hours ago, MadsM said:

Every month I am investing 4% of my pay and my employer adds another 8% so that roughly translates to 600 usd that is then invested by a pension fund which also supplies some insurances and stuff. It's a system that is broadly used and have been since I started working and at the age of 28 I got 10k in that fund. Been earning around 10% yearly on it.

Invest as much as you can. I'm 45. I banged in 12% of my salary from day one post college. This was advice my uncle gave me. He pointed out that you were poor through college - so you're used to it. Max your 401k. You'll never get used to your full salary - so 12% less will just feel normal.

12% was the limit when I was your age.