2022 - 2023 Cup

[southpawtendy48]

54 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Of course he's wrong. There's 4 in the past twenty two years. 

Niemi, Vasilevsky, Khabibulin, and Hasek. 

But he's intentionally putting in nonsense filters that exempt vasi's winning years. 

Yeah, that’s what I thought. Unreal

[A.YOUNGoalie13]

3 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Of course he's wrong. There's 4 in the past twenty two years. 

Niemi, Vasilevsky, Khabibulin, and Hasek. 

But he's intentionally putting in nonsense filters that exempt vasi's winning years. 

Winning the bubble was harder than normal playoffs imo

[Chenner29]

3 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Of course he's wrong. There's 4 in the past twenty two years. 

Niemi, Vasilevsky, Khabibulin, and Hasek. 

But he's intentionally putting in nonsense filters that exempt vasi's winning years. 

15 hours ago, southpawtendy48 said:

So what? And tell me what evidence backs that up, cause there's no way it's only 3. We've seen north american goaltenders such as Kuemper win a cup when he stole maybe a handful of games for the Avs max. Not hating on Kuemper at all but it's just the facts. He was on a very good team that SHOULD have won the cup, and they did. And Vasy JUST won two straight cups, almost 3. Even still, we've seen that especially recently it doesn't even matter what nationality NHL goaltenders are to win/be successful. Look at the rise in success in european goalies. Championships among those goalies will rise soon enough

7 hours ago, ThatCarGuy said:

Good examples are Saros and Vejmelka. Two unbelievably good goalies but on awful teams

Article from 13 (!) years ago when media started noticing the change toward Euro goalies.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/european-goalies-becoming-the-rule-not-the-exception/article560001/

Article from 2020 out of the IIHF

https://www.iihf.com/en/news/20397/year-of-the-european-goalie

Article from 2016 out of USA Hockey

https://www.usahockeymagazine.com/article/2016-06/goalie-issue-homegrown-goalies

Long-time goalie coach Jon Elkin on record saying Ontario isn't doing a good enough job developing their own goalies

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/ohl-trades-hockey-1.5011453

Marty Biron and Marty Brodeur on record saying Europe does a better job developing goalies (2021)

https://nypost.com/2021/03/20/why-quebec-is-no-longer-an-nhl-goalie-factory/

So with those 5 links we've covered:

• media
• 2 hockey organizational bodies
• A reputable goalie coach who's been coaching 30+(?) years
• two NHL alum (one of whom is arguably GOAT)

who all agree the European goalie development model is better than the North American one.

[ThatCarGuy]

5 minutes ago, Chenner29 said:

who all agree the European goalie development model is better than the North American one.

Basically europe likes fast goalies and North America likes big blocking goalies. That trend is starting to turn though. If you watch an SHL or KHL game you’ll notice pretty quick those goalies don’t move like their NHL counterparts. 

[Chenner29]

15 minutes ago, ThatCarGuy said:

Basically europe likes fast goalies and North America likes big blocking goalies. That trend is starting to turn though. If you watch an SHL or KHL game you’ll notice pretty quick those goalies don’t move like their NHL counterparts. 

This sequence is INSANE 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqXkUz5jmLK/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[southpawtendy48]

54 minutes ago, Chenner29 said:

Article from 13 (!) years ago when media started noticing the change toward Euro goalies.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/european-goalies-becoming-the-rule-not-the-exception/article560001/

Article from 2020 out of the IIHF

https://www.iihf.com/en/news/20397/year-of-the-european-goalie

Article from 2016 out of USA Hockey

https://www.usahockeymagazine.com/article/2016-06/goalie-issue-homegrown-goalies

Long-time goalie coach Jon Elkin on record saying Ontario isn't doing a good enough job developing their own goalies

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/ohl-trades-hockey-1.5011453

Marty Biron and Marty Brodeur on record saying Europe does a better job developing goalies (2021)

https://nypost.com/2021/03/20/why-quebec-is-no-longer-an-nhl-goalie-factory/

So with those 5 links we've covered:

• media
• 2 hockey organizational bodies
• A reputable goalie coach who's been coaching 30+(?) years
• two NHL alum (one of whom is arguably GOAT)

who all agree the European goalie development model is better than the North American one.

Thanks for posting those articles here. It should put to rest whatever that guy pulled out of his ass. 

 

As someone who has and is being coached by a european goalie coach the past several months, I can say for a fact that it’s a game changer. I wish I was coached this way sooner. 

[Chenner29]

30 minutes ago, southpawtendy48 said:

Thanks for posting those articles here. It should put to rest whatever that guy pulled out of his ass.

As someone who has and is being coached by a european goalie coach the past several months, I can say for a fact that it’s a game changer. I wish I was coached this way sooner. 

We both know it won't....

[ThatCarGuy]

1 hour ago, Chenner29 said:

This sequence is INSANE 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqXkUz5jmLK/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

They move to make the save. It may not always necessarily be the “right” save but they get the job done

[johncho]

14 hours ago, southpawtendy48 said:

As someone who has and is being coached by a european goalie coach the past several months, I can say for a fact that it’s a game changer. I wish I was coached this way sooner. 

What is the main difference? Just more emphasis on movement?

[coopaloop1234]

15 hours ago, ThatCarGuy said:

They move to make the save. It may not always necessarily be the “right” save but they get the job done

Pretty sure most North American coaches would see that as a huge amount of unnecessary movement/wasted energy. 

Dude was all over the place for a single save. 

[ThatCarGuy]

1 hour ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Pretty sure most North American coaches would see that as a huge amount of unnecessary movement/wasted energy. 

Dude was all over the place for a single save. 

It was a lot of movement yes but the puck was also all over the place. Any one of those shot attempts he was squared up for and ready to stop. 
 

Something I’m a big fan of with European goalie coaches is that in my experience they put much less emphasis on structured, routine goaltending at younger ages. This allows goalies to develop their own save selection, and learn to actively catch pucks instead of simply being a giant positional rebound board. Edgework is huge in Europe and it allows their goalies to move and rotate in ways that North American goalies simply aren’t taught to

[southpawtendy48]

10 hours ago, johncho said:

What is the main difference? Just more emphasis on movement?

in my perspective, it’s knowing how to do basic movements the right way so you can build that power up in the long run to do more complex movements the right way with less energy wasted. The off ice stuff I do emphasizes that as well. Things like that…

[southpawtendy48]

On 5/28/2023 at 3:43 PM, Chenner29 said:

We both know it won't....

Yeah, that’s just wishful thinking on my part

Edited May 29, 2023 by southpawtendy48

[netminder]

On 5/27/2023 at 7:51 PM, Chenner29 said:

The real irony here is that you’ve called me a teenager twice but still clearly have not progressed beyond grade 12 yourself - the most recent example as being the fact you do not understand what “cherry picking” in a logical argument actually is.  I won’t waste my time in suggesting you look it up, as that would require you to have a desire for personal growth.

Word of advice, quit while (you think) you’re ahead, as you’re punching well above your weight class arguing with strangers on the internet. 

You’ve got a long history of being a pedantic prick to people on this board.  Next time you’re even remotely a dick to someone on here, you’re getting permabanned. 

 

Flex those muscles kid, thats usually the best position a bully comes from.

 

PS: Let me remind you that you went out of your way AND off topic to call me out here. I might call a spade a spade when I see a post about a goalie like Keumpher, a goalie i happen to really like thats being trashed, so what!!! Have a Snickers instead.

Edited May 30, 2023 by netminder

[netminder]

Lets forget the NHL for now because 3 legit titles in 30+ years won by a Euro starter is too much 411 to handle.... So the World Juniors, AHL, ECHL all feature North America starters winning at these high levels almost ALL the time too. There's no "wave" of things changing, not in 2016, not in 2008, not in 2023. Maybe if we're lucky its in a 3rd of 4th decade from now we will start to see Euro starters get closer to actually winning championships on the regular, but i have my doubts. Until then, have a Snickers, its nothing personal.

[Chenner29]

47 minutes ago, netminder said:

Flex those muscles kid, thats usually the best position a bully comes from.

 

PS: Let me remind you that you went out of your way AND off topic to call me out here. I might call a spade a spade when I see a post about a goalie like Keumpher, a goalie i happen to really like thats being trashed, so what!!! Have a Snickers instead.

Seeya, homie.

Based on your email, you're the same dude that got banned on GGSU a few years ago for going around starting fights on there for no reason, then report people to Facebook for disagreeing with you.  Probably get some kind of sick kick out of it.  That MO has clearly continued on here and I'm sick of dealing with it.

Hope you get some control in your life back as it's clearly affecting your online persona.

[coopaloop1234]

RIP Netminder. 

I'll never forget you. 

[ser33]

 

for the first time I see how a dude became a victim of statistics and his own "based on facts"

[mik]

Lets just guess who will be next - Bobrovskij or Hill ? 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by mik

[chile57]

On PAPER - the Bobrovsky/Hill matchup is severely slanted in Florida's direction - no? I know there's plenty of teams that won with a combination of two starters (my DRW in 2008 with Hasek/Osgood come to mind (though I'm sure fact spewing @coopaloop1234 will hit me with a more recent iteration )) but nobody has won when down to their 3rd/4th (if you count Lehner) stringer leading the charge - right? Guess you can argue that Hill was an acquisition and not truly 4th on the depth chart but still - wild.

Should be a fun series to watch. But the real question is - will the sky start falling if a Russian netminder wins the Cup? We ALL know for a FACT it'd be unprecedented. 

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by chile57

[ser33]

1 hour ago, chile57 said:

But the real question is - will the sky start falling if a Russian netminder wins the Cup? We ALL know for a FACT it'd be unprecedented. 

 

in the sense of "never happened and here again?"

[Dee]

Wow! Fla vs Vegas for the Cup. Whoddathunkit? 
 

When the playoffs started I was half serious when I said to my brother, "what's the point of even playing the games? Just give the Cup to Boston". Man I love when I'm wrong. (happens often) 

[coopaloop1234]

4 hours ago, chile57 said:

 (though I'm sure fact spewing @coopaloop1234 will hit me with a more recent iteration )

2016-2017 Pittsburgh. Fleury and Murray.  

[Fullright]

Vegas played really well last night. Leaning towards the Cats simply because of Bob but Bob's resting so open question how that will affect his game. 

[Chenner29]

3 hours ago, chile57 said:

On PAPER - the Bobrovsky/Hill matchup is severely slanted in Florida's direction - no? I know there's plenty of teams that won with a combination of two starters (my DRW in 2008 with Hasek/Osgood come to mind (though I'm sure fact spewing @coopaloop1234 will hit me with a more recent iteration )) but nobody has won when down to their 3rd/4th (if you count Lehner) stringer leading the charge - right? Guess you can argue that Hill was an acquisition and not truly 4th on the depth chart but still - wild.

Should be a fun series to watch. But the real question is - will the sky start falling if a Russian netminder wins the Cup? We ALL know for a FACT it'd be unprecedented. 

 

I flipped through Cup finals matchup history here:

https://www.championshiphistory.com/nhl.php

Biggest hardware gap between starting goalies in Cup Final in recent memory that popped out to me is Kuemper vs. Vasi last year.

I also chuckled when I glanced past the 2010 Chi/Phi final, that was probably the low point for goalies (Niemi vs Leighton)

1 hour ago, Dee said:

Wow! Fla vs Vegas for the Cup. Whoddathunkit? 
 

When the playoffs started I was half serious when I said to my brother, "what's the point of even playing the games? Just give the Cup to Boston". Man I love when I'm wrong. (happens often) 

Gary Bettman's really happy right now