Can you bake a Stiff Boot (GSX) with the wrap method used for TRUE skates?

[OldSchoolGoalie]

I was curious if you can take a GSX Skate which is very stiff boot and actually do the wrap method like you see with TRUE skates to bake so you get a better ankle wrap without cranking the laces in the front which attribute to lace bite. I'm probably half a year if not more off from just buying either custom skates (then I have to factor in wait times) or just buying KONEKT ones and not dealing with lace and ankle flex issues.

Just thinking to ask here before I attempt it at the pro shop. If I can get a more narrow ankle fit and not have to tighten my laces as much that would really help make it through the year. So far using Forsberg pads has improved my issue but you still have to crank those laces. The boot fits like a big oval. The only reason I have to crank them is I need the sides tighter for better heel lock and support, but that comes at a cost of less forward flex which I need.

My other post for reference: 

 

Edited March 12 by OldSchoolGoalie

[RichMan]

I own the older X700 model, an entry model just like the GSX. Unless Bauer went and did something different, these entry modes are nowhere as stiff as their top model. 

I baked mine twice in the same season I bought them at the shop and the rest was just break-in time. Of course, if I compare them to my Reactor 3000 I owned in 1988, my X700 are way stiffer.

In saying that, there's really nothing stopping you from trying the cellophane wrap to help contain the shape on your feet/ankles while they cool down. Clearly you'll have to get someone familiar with the method as time is the key given they usually bake both skates at the same time and wrapping would take longer thus giving the chance for the second skate to start cooling down in the meantime. Makes sense?

Have you tried different lacing techniques to help with the lace bite? One of them also makes the boot a little more forward flexible but then again, if you want an absolutely tight wrap at the ankle, your obviously going to lose that flex.

Do you have weak ankles or balance issues? There are ways to strengthen these muscles, a couple minutes here and there during the week would help improve that.

[OldSchoolGoalie]

1 hour ago, RichMan said:

I own the older X700 model, an entry model just like the GSX. Unless Bauer went and did something different, these entry modes are nowhere as stiff as their top model. 

I baked mine twice in the same season I bought them at the shop and the rest was just break-in time. Of course, if I compare them to my Reactor 3000 I owned in 1988, my X700 are way stiffer.

In saying that, there's really nothing stopping you from trying the cellophane wrap to help contain the shape on your feet/ankles while they cool down. Clearly you'll have to get someone familiar with the method as time is the key given they usually bake both skates at the same time and wrapping would take longer thus giving the chance for the second skate to start cooling down in the meantime. Makes sense?

Have you tried different lacing techniques to help with the lace bite? One of them also makes the boot a little more forward flexible but then again, if you want an absolutely tight wrap at the ankle, your obviously going to lose that flex.

Do you have weak ankles or balance issues? There are ways to strengthen these muscles, a couple minutes here and there during the week would help improve that.

I actually don't lace my skates besides the top two eyelets for heel lock. My feet are perfectly fitted in the skate, and even had a few spots punched out. The issue with these skates is depth, but aside from that I need a bit more support on the sides of my ankles coming from my older Reeboks which actually had a much narrow fit. I go over everything in the thread I linked of my struggles with this.

My ankles are pretty strong now but the main issue is heel lock, If I don't crank the sides in enough using that loop trick my heel will lift up. The side to side ankle support isn't the real goal for this. The only way to fix this is cranking the skates but that brings the other problem of tight laces in the front.

The skates were baked upon purchase and after a few skates when they needed to punch out a few spots.

I cannot tie the skates any different to work and any additional pull on the laces will mean massive foot pain because they already fit like a glove. I even have a two lace system in place to make sure I don't cause laces lower down to tighten when doing the top ones.

I'm just trying to get something to work to get by for whatever time it takes to replace them. I'm always left with some ankle pain post skate, and much less than before thanks to the Forsberg pads. I had it bad enough where any weight would cause pain and I could barely walk on both feet for the first 10 mins or so after getting up in the morning, and going down stairs was brutal. Now it is just an aching pain all around with some mild stiffness when forcing myself to play in tighter skates at the flex point for heel lock.

Edited March 12 by OldSchoolGoalie

[OldSchoolGoalie]

2 hours ago, RichMan said:

they usually bake both skates at the same time and wrapping would take longer thus giving the chance for the second skate to start cooling down in the meantime.

I could just request they bake each skate separately I suppose and do the wrap? This place sells TRUE skates as well but I'll have to ask if they can do it once they open up.

Also, cranking them since October hasn't really made them mold tighter around in a way to help with heel lock. I have very wide forefeet, but narrow in the ankle and since day one after my first skate my heel never felt locked in enough unless the sides of the boot are squeezed in enough. If I left the boot more open I would get a tiny amount of heel lift, no side to side or front to back, just a bit of lift when walking in them. Not sure I noticed it on the ice that much but I was told by others it shouldn't lift even when walking around. Maybe I just need another bake with them super tight there to form better. Thanks for the help.

[Madmedic6]

The gsx is the bottom line of Bauer goalie skates meaning they don't share the same heat moldability as the elite, pro, and konekt. And are rather the softest goalie skate Bauer offers at the time. The trues use the wrap due to their composite being moldable. You can try it on the bauers, but I doubt they would retain any wrapped shape being they are softer and lack the composition of the trues. 

Edited March 12 by Madmedic6

[OldSchoolGoalie]

3 minutes ago, Madmedic6 said:

The gsx is the bottom line of Bauer goalie skates meaning they don't share the same heat moldability as the elite, pro, and konekt. And are rather the softest goalie skate Bauer offers at the time. 

This was my general fear with baking such an entry level skate that the boot wouldn't hold the shape. I guess since I've only worn two skates as a goalie in my life... coming from my old skates the boot on these felt stiffer around the ankle. I guess I should maybe do a forward flex when tying them and keep that as my limit to not tighten further to avoid my tendons from getting irritated again. Then I'll just need to live with the slight heel lift until I get new skates.

Edited March 12 by OldSchoolGoalie

[johncho]

Try also this lacing method maybe
https://www.instagram.com/p/C4ZRhtwgmqm/?hl=en

[OldSchoolGoalie]

27 minutes ago, johncho said:

Try also this lacing method maybe
https://www.instagram.com/p/C4ZRhtwgmqm/?hl=en

I'll take a look at this and give it a try then report back! Thank you! The major problem with the GSX skates for me was a depth issue. I'm just barely failing the pencil test and I also had to remove my Yellow Superfeet because it actually made my foot closer to the laces so when cranking for heel lock I would get even worse lacebite. I only bought the Yellow Super Feet because of foot pain, but it turns out after skating with flat insoles (stock) and loose laces mid to toe that foot pain 100% went away.

Hopefully this method you linked works! I just need to watch how low I go with my laces because any amount of snug laces past the ankle causes cramping.

---

I'm currently doing a variation of this but with only two eyelets for the lace set.

My Pictures below:


I make a bridge first so this part doesn't dig into my foot so outside in on both parts.


Then I take that lace and do a loop to the top eyelet for the heel lock.



After that I would take the lace ends for each side and put them through their opposites for the heel lock and use two or three unders for the first knot and then a double bow.



I have all the other eyelets below on its own lace pretty with zero tension.

[Puckstopper]

3 hours ago, OldSchoolGoalie said:

I could just request they bake each skate separately I suppose and do the wrap? This place sells TRUE skates as well but I'll have to ask if they can do it once they open up.

Also, cranking them since October hasn't really made them mold tighter around in a way to help with heel lock. I have very wide forefeet, but narrow in the ankle and since day one after my first skate my heel never felt locked in enough unless the sides of the boot are squeezed in enough. If I left the boot more open I would get a tiny amount of heel lift, no side to side or front to back, just a bit of lift when walking in them. Not sure I noticed it on the ice that much but I was told by others it shouldn't lift even when walking around. Maybe I just need another bake with them super tight there to form better. Thanks for the help.

 I worked for a pro shop for several years and prior to that, have been down the journey you're on, trying to get by on a pair of skates that weren't right, but were what I could afford.   So I have experience to back up what I'm going to tell you, AND significant empathy for your frustration.  At risk of being overly direct, you're spending an awful lot of time, effort and money trying to make a bottom of the range pair of skates feel like something they just aren't ever going to be.  When you have a hard to fit foot  the best solution is full custom.   If you go that route, you'll never want to go back.   Your next best option is finding something you can live with, and understanding that it's just not going to be perfectly comfortable.   You may get lucky and your next pair of skates will be the magic bullet, or you may find yourself spending as much or more than you would have on custom skates.   YMMV.

A few specific things:

• As I'm sure you know, the materials in each skate line are the biggest differentiator between the lines.  A major misconception is that the top line is the "best".   You should buy what works for you, both in terms of price and performance, as top end skates aren't the best performers for everyone.
• As you'd expect, the materials in bottom of the line skates are not as strong, durable, moldable and resilient as the materials used as you go up the line.  When you buy better skates, you get different materials that allow you to bake/mold more of the skate for a better fit, AND allow you to bake them more often without breakdown.
• I wouldn't recommend baking bottom of the range skates more than twice.  Beyond that you run the risk of losing more in stiffness and boot life than you're gaining in comfort.  You're reaching that point of diminishing returns and I'd be extremely  cautious with further baking. 
• Contrast that to top end custom skates.  Our old True rep stated that my custom boots could be baked as many times as I wanted without compromising the materials.   When pressed, he admitted that baking them monthly probably wouldn't be a good idea, but that if I felt the need to rebake several times throughout the life of the skates to dial in fit or account for wear it wouldn't be an issue.  
• To your specific question: Cello wrap works wonders with composite skate boots that will hold the shape they're baked to after they cool.  It will do very little for bottom or even mid range skates.  We actually tried it for a former co-worker and a couple customers, hoping to reduce stress on the eyelets.  The consensus was that it wasn't nearly as effective as using the laces with most skates.

I've had my True custom skates since 2017.   I play 1-3 times a week on average and am absolutely fanatical about their care.  I'm talking blades dried, footbeds removed after every use and I dry them in front of a fan.  I unpack my bag immediately upon getting home no matter how tired I am.  With that level of play/care the skates have held up beautifully and  have no issues recommending them.  On the other hand, I've seen players treat them poorly and the skates will not last nearly as long.   If you're going to buy a Ferrari, treat it like one.

 

[OldSchoolGoalie]

@Puckstopper My goal at this point was to get them more or less passable for 6 months before I buy my KONEKTs, or go full custom with TRUE skates and have to wait that 6 months + the build period. These GSX skates were a quick upgrade from my really old cowling Reebok skates which did fit well but I wanted that attack angle and better mobility when in the butterfly. I'm not looking for them to be on par with any custom option, I just have such feet that sadly off the shelf skates don't really work so I'm forced to do all these adjustments. This is why I had to punch the heck out of them and the GSX one I got was already an EE. 

I'm going to try that video link and see if lacing it like that will help because if I can move the pressure and open up my forward flex with decent heel lock I'll be alright for the time being. I play roughly three to five times a week and prior to this quick skate update I did get some newer gear as I didn't think the skates would've been this awful. The intended plan before I bought these was to just grab the GSX skates because of the price point, use them for a year, chuck them and get a custom option. Looking back on it I would've saved my gear update and just went and got KONEKTs, but I had to buy two sets of gear so that put me back as I play off and on the ice and have too many commitments to miss so I thought a cheaper skate upgrade might work coming from my very old skates as it was. Kind of wish I kept them!

Lesson learned for me...

I'm not going to bake them because they were baked on purchase once, and another time so they could be punched in. With the amount of use I put these skates through they'll never hold up if I break down the materials further. I'm the same as you, I take very good care of all my gear and once I buy my next pair I hope it will last a long time. I'll just be sure to pick up some extra steel for the future.

Thanks for the replies. I was just trying a last ditch effort to see if a wrap would work on these.

Edited March 12 by OldSchoolGoalie

[RichMan]

Give this a shot in the meantime...

 

[RichMan]

You could also try those hockey socks with the round padded discs sewn over the ankle bones to further create a lock by taking up space.

[OldSchoolGoalie]

3 hours ago, RichMan said:

Give this a shot in the meantime...

 

I'll give this a go! Thank you very much.

EDIT: Found them for $10 locally!

There was also these too but I'm assuming the one you linked would be better?




Also $10 as well, I guess I could give it a go too. The only issue I seen online is that they don't really stick well in the boot (I could just secure them another way or within my socks), but apart from that using both might just be enough to get me by. Cheap enough I suppose to try both at the same time.

Thanks again, I'll pick them both up tomorrow at the sports shop.

Edited March 12 by OldSchoolGoalie

[OldSchoolGoalie]

On 3/12/2024 at 9:11 AM, johncho said:

Try also this lacing method maybe
https://www.instagram.com/p/C4ZRhtwgmqm/?hl=en

@johncho This actually solved my issue for the most part. The GSX skate only has 8 eyelets and his has 10 but I still did it the same way where I leave 3 empty from the top, and go up and back down. It pulls the sides in just enough and now my pressure from tying the skate is not fully on the flex spot. I then added in the heel gel pad from what @RichMan suggested and it seems to help fill some space there giving me that heel lock. I'm not sure about the ankle bone ones as I didn't notice a real difference, I might move them down a bit but I'll see.

I'll take these out to the rink and comment back later. I might still have to use the Forsberg pads as my depth isn't 100% great and I just fail the pencil test a tad bit on that area. The main problem is gone now with that lacing trick as I'm not cranking them and tying them at the flex point anymore. The only issue that might occur is some foot cramping, but it might not be super bad if I continue with a two lace setup as cranking them even lower still pulls the other areas tighter.

Thank you everyone for your replies. This is extremely promising and will hopefully get me through until I get my next set of skates.

[johncho]

I'm super happy for you and I might try it myself

[OldSchoolGoalie]

On 3/13/2024 at 2:11 PM, johncho said:

I'm super happy for you and I might try it myself

Thanks! So I tried the lacing trick on my game today and I would say it was fine for about the first 15 minutes, then I felt my heel slip more and more as the lace was letting out a bit... which is odd as I'm using wax too.

So I thought... why not just loop through these instead because it will pull the boot in tighter, hold it, and since it is lower down I'll still have that flex.

His video has this as the final result:



Factoring I only have 8 eyelets and he has 10, I still work from the first 4 down from the top doing what he shows:

Then cranking it as hard as possible will still leave a gap here enough for that heel slip issue, and it worsens as the game goes on.



It was so bad in my game I literally could not skate with any real power. If I left my net (which I found out quickly) to play the puck I was done for!

So once I got home I looked at this some more and tried to use this piece here to actually pull the sides in while still having that pressure lower down which allows forward flex and no lace bite.

Now it is a more snug fit and my heel isn't as sloppy anymore, and I have enough of a bridge over where I don't feel the laces digging in when flexing forward:

 

[Korppi32]

On 3/12/2024 at 5:49 PM, OldSchoolGoalie said:

I'll take a look at this and give it a try then report back! Thank you! The major problem with the GSX skates for me was a depth issue. I'm just barely failing the pencil test and I also had to remove my Yellow Superfeet because it actually made my foot closer to the laces so when cranking for heel lock I would get even worse lacebite. I only bought the Yellow Super Feet because of foot pain, but it turns out after skating with flat insoles (stock) and loose laces mid to toe that foot pain 100% went away.

Hopefully this method you linked works! I just need to watch how low I go with my laces because any amount of snug laces past the ankle causes cramping.

---

I'm currently doing a variation of this but with only two eyelets for the lace set.

My Pictures below:


I make a bridge first so this part doesn't dig into my foot so outside in on both parts.


Then I take that lace and do a loop to the top eyelet for the heel lock.



After that I would take the lace ends for each side and put them through their opposites for the heel lock and use two or three unders for the first knot and then a double bow.



I have all the other eyelets below on its own lace pretty with zero tension.

It's not a surprising that you have some lace bite issues. The felt tongue is so thin in GSX skates that is clearly worn out already. Lacing tricks might help some time because there is some fresh foam in tongue but it wont last forever.

 

1. I think you need some rest if your feet are inflamed and painful.

2. You have to make felt tongue thicker and stronger.

3. Try wider non.waxed laces. 

[OldSchoolGoalie]

1 hour ago, Korppi32 said:

It's not a surprising that you have some lace bite issues. The felt tongue is so thin in GSX skates that is clearly worn out already. Lacing tricks might help some time because there is some fresh foam in tongue but it wont last forever.

 

1. I think you need some rest if your feet are inflamed and painful.

2. You have to make felt tongue thicker and stronger.

3. Try wider non.waxed laces. 

I'm taking some time off ice hockey for a bit so I'll get plenty of time to rest thankfully!

I didn't show it in the picture above but if I insert my Forsberg pads under it adds enough cushion where the tongue being thin doesn't matter and you cannot feel any lace pressure or rubbing on that spot. It was 100% worse when I laced them the old way as up higher it still would dig in regardless of the pads, but moving the pressure down the boot helped big time!

I only need these skates to last about 6 months (plus any additional time for customs), and they're off to the donation bin or a cheap sale.

Thanks for the tip on the wider skate lace, I'll have to locate some as I believe everything here locally is just standard width? .3 of an " wide -- I did find some .5 of an " wide ones online. I do have a question about wax vs non-waxed, doesn't wax hold better? but due to less give I'm guessing it is worse for lace bite as it doesn't give a bit as the game goes on?

Edited March 16 by OldSchoolGoalie

[OldSchoolGoalie]

I actually got called out to a game tonight, and with the above lacing method with the added part of looping through I was able to maintain a good wrap around my ankle for heel lock without having restricted forward flex. This worked perfectly with my Forsberg pads. I felt zero pressure, no rubbing of the laces or anything. My feet also don't hurt post skate either. There still is a very minor heel lift but it is pretty much on par with the very first lacing method I did with the loops on the top eyelet which restricted my forward flex giving me nasty lace bite; this problem is fully solved on the lace bite part. I was able to skate out and play the puck without moving like a grandpa this time which was great.

This is the best it will get with these skates and I'm glad it worked out so well. I'm extremely thankful for all the tips and help! Especially for @johncho sharing that video. I was pretty much on the verge of just quitting ice hockey fully until I got this all sorted with new skates. I'm taking a bit of a break now as all my ice slots are finished so any lingering issues should be healed up before my next skate, then I'll be shopping for either KONEKTs or going TRUE customs.

[RichMan]

I have to ask...why are the laces on the bottom part of your skate so loose? Was it just because you simply wanted to show the Increase lacing technique at the top?

[OldSchoolGoalie]

29 minutes ago, RichMan said:

I have to ask...why are the laces on the bottom part of your skate so loose? Was it just because you simply wanted to show the Increase lacing technique at the top?

Due to the fit, my feet fit perfectly snug without having to lace anything lower than what I need for heel lock. I did have them more loose to show the lacing better in the pictures. I actually never liked to tighten my skates in all my years from mid to toe, and with these skates if I do it will actually cause major foot cramping. I also had to get them punched out a lot just to make it work off the shelf and these are their EE model. When I do my skates up I pull the laces just enough to not give any tension but not so loose they're flopping around. If I wanted to I could just pull out those laces (they're a second set by the way so when I crank for heel lock they also don't tighten as well) right out and it wouldn't make a difference. I just need to have them loose enough to move the tongue forward to get my feet in and out, and apart from that they're snug.