maxtm30

I promised feedback, here is it:

Honestly the set feels awesome, strapping is perfect without the professor, I’ll still test it with the connect strap next week see the difference.

Now the elephant in the room, sliding. It felt different, 100%. Not sure if it’s a good or bad different though. It "felt" slower, but I didn’t miss anything that I would’ve saved with my Ultrasonic. I feel like the slower pushes were more controlled, it help me having better post integration after sliding VS US. Whenever I needed a hard push I was still flying though the crease as before. Really hard to tell, but there is something going on with this new skin.
 

Rebounds are much better than any pad I had before. The open leg channel feels like the tightest channel possible, thanks to tune fit +.

Glove and Blocker are incredible, comfy and all around upgrades.

On 7/1/2022 at 10:24 PM, ZeroGravitas said:

I can't tell from the pictures - is it one cord that is laced all the way around? Or multiple cords? If it's one, a failure where the single cord under tension is cut seems like it could be catastrophic as opposed to a single cord.

I'm imagining a single cord failing and that whole single cord under tension unraveling and slicing you up pretty good.

The wire is made from Dyneema, if I'm reading correctly, which is similar to Kevlar. I know you need some pretty sharp scissors to handle Kevlar. Would this stuff slice you up worse/deeper than a shard of steel?

A single thread spreads the impact on a longer thread, so less tension overall when impacted. This might help actually. But it "looks" like multiple to me.

On 7/2/2022 at 12:22 AM, Chenner29 said:

I've read and reread this thread several times

In my mind I'm still reading "tensegrity" as "Tegridy"

If I understand the video and website correctly, it looks like the cross bars are actually made of Dyneema thread.  If the threads were to snap from impact, I don't think they would recoil the way we are expecting

Paging our resident engineer @maxtm30

I’m guessing the wires would snap like a nylon/cotton thread, so split in two. This structure seems to be more resilient that a standart cage. I do not use a cat eye (I’m not cool I know) but traditional cages loose strength to more they bend. This product looks really promising, first time there is inovation in the goalie cage (except the SAW hardware Bauer put out with the Concept and NME one). 
 

The aesthetics are weird, but then again, look how we reacted to the 1s back in the day(or how a certain netminding guy reacted to the hyperlite in the mach thread). The guy from uncage might not be a goalie, but he could fine tune his design with some adjustments I guess.

Time will tell.

Just now, ZeroGravitas said:

Nice sets. When do you skate with the Mach? Do you notice any difference (to the touch) with the US calf and Mach calf?

I've applied some 3M film to my Mach and I'll see how they slide tonight...

It looks like its is a diffrent material, but the mach feels more slippery, I’m thinking of a way to measure it but it still escapes me

As promised : the full set. The ice blue is the light teal of seattle, looks white-ish on pictures though.

First impressions are quite positive on my end. Glove and blocker are an instant improvement over the Ultrasonic comfort wise. The thumb and pinky loops are updated to have a suede like surface, MUCH more comfortable than any other loop! I went with the mach grip print (catch grip +) and I do not regret it one bit! Perfect blend of grip and comfort.

I included my whole Supreme collection, because why not

I went to pick up my set just now between two meetings, the store is less than 10 mins from my office. Made sure to inspect sliding surface a little, it did feel super slippery, just as slippery as the skin. The blue was also the same color, whereas on my ultrasonic you could see a colour difference between the printed zone and the knee and calf. I will try to compare further once I get home.

39 minutes ago, ZeroGravitas said:

I've consulted the Hockey Gods and They have told me that you are to be the one who shows us the Way.

The buddy of mine that borrowed my Machs is now thinking of doing the exact same thing.

There's a thread on here where people are using some 3M tape on the inside edge of their pads - I'm thinking of giving that a try. I skate tomorrow and Thursday. Hope to have it applied by Thursday so I can report back.

4 minutes ago, RecoveringGoalie1 said:

IMO, from playing around with the Mach on the ice outside of game play, its the skin that is the X factor here. I've tried sliding with my weight on different parts of the pads (i.e. being more knee heavy, more calf heavy, trying to be balanced, etc.) and the 'drag' feels like it's the skin being an issue rather than pad construction and bindings. Of course this is entirely unscientific testing from me, but that's my lean from my experiences with it.  There's something 'wrong' with this new skin that has increased the drag.

Tempted to demo a pair of retail / stock Mach's to see if there's a difference.

Most scientific test to do is to test the retail pad and compare. 

8 minutes ago, ZeroGravitas said:

Thing is is that the calf seems super similar to the Ultrasonics, which slide like a greased up fat guy at a water park. I'll take a deeper look today to see what's different, but if the calf is largely the same, it must be the skin that's causing this?

But that said, I haven't spoken to anyone who has the off the shelf pad...

How many weeks along are you?

This week is the 8th one!

Even if the material and geometry are the same from ultrasonic. The skin is new. Plus, this new skin and the mach bracket were both designed alongside the CSS calf plate and pillow. This geometry being different changes how your weight is distributed and affects sliding. The calf plate being bumped put feels like it was designed to shift most of the weight in motion to the leg, and then to the knee+core when static. With a less pronounced bump (i.e. the butterfly assist from UltraSonic) less weight is shifted back, so more weight on the less slippery sl1d3r skin. This matches 1 to 1 with the feedback + physics of the problem.

Asked a friend of mine who tested the retail pad and he felt sliding was on par with his hyperlite set. 
 

IN BOLD : Taken out of context, this would be quite hilarious. I guess a goalie’s custom set is like a baby

5 hours ago, ZeroGravitas said:

I have six or seven skates in the Mach. Switched back to the Ultrasonic for a game on Saturday and oh my goodness.... the sliding was so much better with the Ultrasonic. I felt so much more mobile with the US versus the Mach, likely because of the pad's stiffness, profile and lack of calf bracket. For whatever reason, I feel more planted and stuck on the ice with the Machs - I wonder if it is the heavier weight/stifness of the plastic that makes up the Mach bracket.

Loaned the Machs to a buddy who is also currently in Ultrasonics - he also noticed that the Mach does not slide as well as the US.

Since I have my Ultrasonics back, I will try to put some comparison pictures up in the original post.

I’m starting to feel that whatever is causing the issue is likely linked to the build of the custom pads. A common, significant performance downgrade would’ve been notice earlier in product dev cycle. My theory is the NHL calf wing + new skin combo. The geometry is significantly different and the weight distribution is most likely affected a great deal. So the sliding will feel different with both calf wings.

Anxiously waiting my set, you can expect my feedback after a few skates in here. As well as glory shots of the set of course  

1 hour ago, Chenner29 said:

Thanks for clarifying, and it's always great to get a more technical look at how things work.

I've been workshopping both scenarios in my head, and while I don't have the technical background that you do, I still wonder if there is merit in having a fixed end point (ie. 2" of skate lace slack) versus a variable end point (ie. an elastic toe which expands/contracts based on how much energy is put into it).  Having played in a Lefevre 20.1 with Fastglide (IMO a poor choice of material that does neither of these things) and elastic toes, I felt the elastic toes in those expanding faster than I was sliding.

It's been discussed a few times on here, and IIRC @ThatCarGuy and I are in the same boat in that regular skate lace is better than an elastic toe in isolated scenarios like bumping off the post from an RVH. 

IIRC the skin is different (SLIDER skin) but I could not pick up any differences visually or by touch

I too use skate laces. I don’t think it affects the sliding simply because of the shear weight applied at the knee level VS the weight of a foot.

Your theory about elastic might make sense with the dragging leg, but the drag would need to be pretty significant to hinder sliding.

I will have skate laces and my set should come soon, if I don’t see any difference you may be right after all  

1 hour ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Glad I wasn't the only one to laugh at the 1337 5p34k 

Marketing department at a lot of fun at least!

12 minutes ago, ThatCarGuy said:

It’s honestly concerning reading the thread. I’m just hoping my Mach’s are halfway decent

Knowing the hours Bauer put into testing their products, I would be surprised a really significant downgrade would pass all testing, all feedback they get. If that sl1d3r skin (sick gamertag B4u3r ) is more durable, but slides x<5% less than cortech st, I’m willing to bite the bullet, cortech st was already durable enough for me.

6 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

 

I'd be interested in helping to workshop some solutions - but full disclosure, I have not skated in the Mach and am not planning on getting a set

@RecoveringGoalie1 - Where's the snow buildup for you?  If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it's occuring in the circled areas below.  The surface isn't completely flat and I can see snow getting trapped in there.  I've stolen a sliding surface pic from @ZeroGravitas's review thread to illustrate at the bottom of the post.

To start, have either of you considered using regular toe lace instead of the elastic toe tie? 

It's a little weird to explain, but IMO the elastic toe can exacerbate the issue because it inherently will elongate when it catches friction from the ice, no matter how much momentum you have going into your lead/slide skate.  Regular skate lace will let out X number of inches, and then the momentum from your sliding skate leg will take over. 

I did a quick free body diagram that emulates the situation. The tension in  cord cannot affect sliding significantly because the tension pulls your feet towards the pad, but you slide in the same direction as this force. Also it is a force within the analyzed system, a bit like how an airplane is not affected by the rotation of the Earth because it already rotates with it.

The friction coefficient of materials is different for static (to initiate movement) and dynamic (friction while already moving), so this new skin could have a higher value for one or both of those. At this point, it could be that the coating on the skin is a new, rougher material. Is the sliding issue a generalized thing or is it only when you’re static in the butterfly and you push to slide?

The material on the sliding surface (knee and calf) seems the same as prior gens from what I see with the pictures, so it cannot be that (could be wrong here).
 

From my mechanical designer/ jr. Engineer stand point, I can’t wait to actually use my incoming set to test this, and try to quantify it somehow.

5 minutes ago, RecoveringGoalie1 said:

My custom Mach's arrived yesterday after placing the order last week of April - basically a 10 week turnaround. 120 degree soft boot, flex level 3 (Supreme), with Stabliflex rather than Slide as I prefer some give on the pad and landing area.

Already got on the ice last night with them and overall positive impressions. Hot rebounds as to be expected, as I went Pro Custom I got a smaller balance plate (NHL spec) rather than the massive pillow (which is honestly too big imo), and the new calf strapping system is a game changer for me. The pad feels connected to you, but also allows for a smooth rotation while sitting the pad a tiny bit higher on your legs. It's better than the professor strap and there's no reason to strap the knee block to the wing anymore. 

The one concern I have so far is they definitely don't slide as well as the 3X or Hyperlites. I've seen others report this as well, and I'll update after a few more sessions but I can feel more dragging during the slide and throughout the game there was significant build up of snow along the landing area which hasn't happened with any of the other pads I've used recently. TBD after more sessions, but it's a bit disappointing considering these were supposed to be an improvement.

 

Nice set… I placed my order april 26th and my set have yet to arrive. Your counting is off however… this week (june 13th) is the seventh week of waiting  

My ultrasonic do have a lot of snow buildup too, honestly curious to try this new skin. Time will tell.

9 hours ago, ThatCarGuy said:

One question remains, how do they slide compared to bauer?

From what I’ve seen. I don’t think you can expect speedskin to magically match the CORTECH / sl1d3r skin tech, but the stiffer landing probably helps this one slide a bit better than past ccms

59 minutes ago, Teezle said:

I think they are talking about the stock version of the pad, which has the 125 degree boot (steeper). This will cause the pad to sit higher overall, so you may want to size down when going from Hyperlite -> Mach (i.e. if you're a Medium in Hyperlite, go Small in Mach).

Both @ZeroGravitas and I ordered our Mach set with the 100 degree boot (same boot angle as the stock Hyperlite), so the boot break to knee height is basically the same between the two. They feel taller in the thigh rise because of the less curved shape and stiffer thigh portion (with the stock flex; you can custom order whatever flex you like). I have not yet had a problem with the thigh feeling "too tall".

The Mach have a stock 120 deg boot VS 125 on UltraSonic & previous supremes.

The Mach also have a deeper boot channel VS ultrasonic and Hyperlite (flat). I think they fit much closer than they used to with prior release. I don’t sell gear anymore but I went XS in all releases from 2s to ultrasonic and they played similar enough. Supremes felt a bit taller but not enough to feel like I needed to size-down.

End of the day, Mach should fit a bit taller, but not a full size. Adding a bit of toe slack can help alleviate the difference.

On 1/10/2019 at 10:33 AM, Mroy31 said:

Subaru Impreza hatchback. Doesn't matter if there's a blizzard, the goalie is showing up to the game

Wow… we both have the same car and we both wear bauer hahaha! What are the odds

On 5/18/2022 at 11:36 PM, ZeroGravitas said:

So I kinda like this pad design...

But then I get to matching glove and blocker and throw up in my mouth a little...

The light blue landing surface kinda ruins the whole thing for the blocker and catcher, IMO.

Recent ccm graphics have a problem with the landing surface color. I feel like it never flows well with any graphic zone.

To be fair, I have disliked CCM graphics pretty much since the P2 in 2018. 
 

On the other hand, can’t wait to see the custom graphics capabilities they have, best thing to come with this line imo.

11 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

@wvuviv30 @Puckstopper - Calf Bracket is detailed below, @maxtm30 had it right

Also want to note on the stick, my Monkey store had a RETAIL STOCK P34 as opposed to the previously pushed P31.  Still have difficulty trusting the spine, they look like they thinned out the back of the paddle even more, and now there's a channel running down over the top of the blade too. 

I really liked the changes they made to glove and blocker, wrist mobility looks great off the shelf.

The new geometry should reduce the stress in the spine, because of the tapering. Sharp angles are mechanically bad for internal stresses. Stresses concentrate in sharply angled areas in an objects, in sudden reduction in size etc.

2 hours ago, ThatCarGuy said:

My hyperlite held up to AHL shots after it had already taken a season’s worth of beating. They are very solid chests. 

To add up, been using a 2x pro for a few seasons now (going on its fourth) and there is no noticeable downgrade in protection yet! Very good products! Hopefully you can find your fit @ilyazhito

edit: typo.

On 4/28/2022 at 7:51 AM, TheGoalNet said:

Ultra Sonic is my favorite release of the last couple cycles, so I am okay with more stabilislide

Same here! I sold hockey gear during exciting times; rise of the od1n tech, first ADV stick, ergo spine, unibody outsole tech, Nexus ADV, and stabilislide. The biggest game changer all these years was stabilislide. I remember being amazed at the execution! 

19 hours ago, Nohtaram said:

So it looks like ROM strap is what Warrior does with their glove since G2 series. For me it's way more comfortable to wear glove with strap more on the hand than on/over the wrist - and that keep me from change my G3 glove

The only feature I love from a glove I absolutely hate. Glad this option gained traction in the market!

ORDER placed (first time as a customer for me, so my wallet hates me now)

Mach logo is ice blue, so should be one of the light teal the Seattle Kraken uses.

Specs:

PADS

• Stiff core
• 120 soft boot
• no knee wing
• calf bracket
• stabilislide
• skate laces - offset
• vapor tune fit connect

glove and blocker

• game ready
• nylon lacing
• mach grip print liner (new stock option)
• INTpalm fit
• no wrist strap
• stock poron padding
   
• no thumb pillow
• INT palm

1 hour ago, Puckstopper said:

Hmmm, that does make sense.  I guess time will tell once store employees get some training or TGN is allowed to share tech specs with us peons.   If true, I'll be fascinated to see what the reaction is to a fixed calf wing.   Locking in the knee landing area makes a big difference in performance, but I wonder if locking in the calf as well will result in a pad that feels overly rigid.   Time will tell I guess. 

Ordering tomorrow, will share what I can after!