The Science Of A Chest And Arm Protector...And The Human Body

[RichMan]

This topic of mine will cover a few things. I will talk about the concept of a chest and arm protector, the application or its purpose and the adaptability to the human frame.

To say that creating a chest protector is a science is somewhat accurate. It does touch on the art form as a visual idea but the basis of it is primarily asking ones self, how and why.

A chest and arm protector (c/a) has the principal role of protecting the upper body and its limbs, ie arms. In a simple way, we aren't talking about taking up space but more so shielding the body from on-coming pucks. The thickness of its padding, the choice of materials (foam density and plastics), as well as new space age materials based on either physics or chemical reactions. Once the composition has been chosen, then the focus will be on where should the protection be focused on and which materials where and how thick or thin and/or combinations. This is the basics.

Then we start thinking about space. how can all the materials and fundamental placement of them can be maximised, legally or not, to occupy as much room as possible to further block pucks coming in. In essence, this is kind of cheating if you think of it. If you know where to be on shots and get there on time, having larger units (wings, shoulders, arm floaters) shouldn't be a priority. then again, we are not all superheroes or gods to think that this will happen every time. There was something to be said about our stand-up ancestors but they weren't facing the same type of game we see today. We can't forget to mention the fact that there are kind of 2 types of goalies out there: the acrobatic type and the blocking type. The later has taken the forefront in my opinion yet the manufacturers still produce 2 different styles of c/a, and even more, the NHL tries its best to downsize the c/a to increase scoring chances "as they say". This of course has brought lots of debate and complaints from the professional goalie community. We all witnessed the Kennesky PP1 introduction to the show, taking advantage of a golden opportunity, but the jury was out and although size restrictions were met with success, protection was a miss. The advent of the CCM AB18 had seemed to correct this and has been the staple since. Yes there are other brands that cater to other goalies based on their preference but they are the few exceptions.

Coming into the next discussion, whether you choose a blocking model c/a or a more streamlined mobile one, not all are created equal respectively. Speaking from my own experiences, having worn multiple brands over the decades, having tried on several different ones new and used in stores, other than choosing the right size and level of protection, I found that my body structure or geometry is best suited to only certain makes and models based on the design, the fit, the comfort and the type of game I play.

For example, what has seemed to work well for me so far in my career are both the straight body designs, ei Brown 503, Heaton H5, Reebok P1, Mckenney Pro-Spec, Warrior GT2 etc, and the other is the more traditional pear shape like my Bauer 2S. I haven't had the chance to try on the older Vaughn 5500 or the 2200 which kinda resembles my 2S. I've just recently tried on a used Vaughn V7 XR in Large, what I would clearly call a blocking type c/a and despite seeing the level of protection being adequate, it just felt like too much in the shoulder/wing area.The amount of velcro adjustment in the shoulder/arms/traps area was just overwhelming and it would of taken hourssss to maybe find the right fit. Just a couple weeks ago I tried on the V9 and V10 at my local shop, in size Large and although I didn't fiddle for hours to get the fit perfect, I found the bodies to be unusually long for the size in comparison to say the Bauer Elite S23 in the same size. This leads me to wonder why is there no standard across the line? I understand that these units are built in sizes that are based off of statistical data and accumulated feedback and basically adopting the clothes industry formula (small = 5' to 5'4, medium = 5'5 to 5'8, etc). Given that each and everyone of us has a different body dimensions (torso length, shoulder width, chest circumference, arm length), I understand the need for multiple adjustments on these units, but despite this, I strongly feel that it won't necessarily make it fit you better, at least not perfectly. Getting a tailored unit like a dress suit would be awesome and as far as I know, only Brown and Kennesky offer this option. 

Sitting at a table with a group of people to come up with an idea that will offer protection, reasonable coverage, be light yet sturdy and still have mass appeal is not an easy feat.

In conclusion, for myself, if I had to choose a c/a for the rest of my playing days, I would be torn between the Reebok P1 (aka CCM AB Pro) and the Bauer Pro Series (aka 1/2S, NXG) simply based on their simplicity in fit and adjustment. They sit well on me, they offer good coverage but nothing exaggerated, they are very mobile, very protective, have simple nylon straps to adjust the height of the neckline and have been well proven amongst the piers.

*This was a long topic and a little scrambled in my head as I wrote it. I apologise for the flow of thoughts, or there lack of I should say  

     

Edited April 4 by RichMan

[mik]

12 hours ago, RichMan said:

Coming into the next discussion, whether you choose a blocking model c/a or a more streamlined mobile one, not all are created equal respectively. Speaking from my own experiences, having worn multiple brands over the decades, having tried on several different ones new and used in stores, other than choosing the right size and level of protection, I found that my body structure or geometry is best suited to only certain makes and models based on the design, the fit, the comfort and the type of game I play.

    

In my opinion, that is the main point. I tried lot of chest protectors in recent time, most of them looked good at store, but not suited for my body. For example - Warrior didn´t fit good al elbow area, Brians Optik was nice crafted product, but I can´t turn my head properly...Vaughns were good. For lot of years I was in Bauer only, but only Supreme line, Reactor or Vapor never fit me good. Strange thing to me is, that by measures I sould by definitely in L size, it fitted realy great in store, but I allways ended in XL size. It is litte over sized for me, but "feel" is better. But maybe it is just sometihng I´m used to.  

12 hours ago, RichMan said:

In conclusion, for myself, if I had to choose a c/a for the rest of my playing days, I would be torn between the Reebok P1 (aka CCM AB Pro) and the Bauer Pro Series (aka 1/2S, NXG) simply based on their simplicity in fit and adjustment. They sit well on me, they offer good coverage but nothing exaggerated, they are very mobile, very protective, have simple nylon straps to adjust the height of the neckline and have been well proven amongst the piers.

    

Absolutely same .

[havlicekdom]

6 hours ago, mik said:

In my opinion, that is the main point. I tried lot of chest protectors in recent time, most of them looked good at store, but not suited for my body. For example - Warrior didn´t fit good al elbow area, Brians Optik was nice crafted product, but I can´t turn my head properly...Vaughns were good. For lot of years I was in Bauer only, but only Supreme line, Reactor or Vapor never fit me good. Strange thing to me is, that by measures I sould by definitely in L size, it fitted realy great in store, but I allways ended in XL size. It is litte over sized for me, but "feel" is better. But maybe it is just sometihng I´m used to.  

Absolutely same .

My very recent experience with Bauer was the same, tried on Hyperlite 2 C/A size Large, body fit me well, but the arms did not (were too long) no matter how I set it up. Put on Mach same size and it was basically perfect. Even the clerk was surprised when I told him the HL2 was too big for me.

[RichMan]

1 hour ago, havlicekdom said:

My very recent experience with Bauer was the same, tried on Hyperlite 2 C/A size Large, body fit me well, but the arms did not (were too long) no matter how I set it up. Put on Mach same size and it was basically perfect. Even the clerk was surprised when I told him the HL2 was too big for me.

That's odd. Looking at the HL2 and the Mach side by side, the Mach seems built longer in the torso. As for the arms, I'm guessing the HL2 has more flex given the materials and structure which could make them feel longer. Just guessing.

[froese]

1 hour ago, havlicekdom said:

My very recent experience with Bauer was the same, tried on Hyperlite 2 C/A size Large, body fit me well, but the arms did not (were too long) no matter how I set it up. Put on Mach same size and it was basically perfect. Even the clerk was surprised when I told him the HL2 was too big for me.

This was my experience too. The body/chest fit perfectly and the shoulders didn't interfere with my vision or head turn and I really wanted it to work, so I ended up adding more velcro to the arm attachment system which allowed me to cinch up the arms a bit higher and that solved it for me. 

[ilyazhito]

I'm curious what you should do if you have a shorter torso but longer legs? I've mostly worn Large chest protectors, but I wear small T-shirts due to my waist, and M Warrior fits the best on me. I'm curious what sizes I would fit in CCM and Bauer. 

[RichMan]

@ilyazhito you have to consider that today's or more recent c/a models have the arms sewn in loosely and have added velcro to help with length adjustments. Most of the units I've used, as is with my current one, the arms are laced in. For the most part, there are 1 or 2 extra rows of holes on the shoulder tab to make that length adjustment, unlike my Bauer 2S which only has 1 lace-in setting, as if that size c/a expects just one arm length for everyone without exception. 

One negative with the new velcro set-ups is that if you buy off the rack, and if you want to swap with shorter or longer arms or frankenstein it with a different brand/model, you can't. That's the beauty about custom orders and Bauer custom lets you mix-match as you want. Of course, when you get there it becomes more expensive.

Edited April 5 by RichMan

[ilyazhito]

Interesting. So the arms are adjustable to a certain degree, but custom is the best (and most expensive) option for someone with odd body proportions (e.g. S torso, M arms). 

[havlicekdom]

3 hours ago, RichMan said:

That's odd. Looking at the HL2 and the Mach side by side, the Mach seems built longer in the torso. As for the arms, I'm guessing the HL2 has more flex given the materials and structure which could make them feel longer. Just guessing.

Torso-wise I think both models would work for me, but the arms were weird, the HL2, arms Velcro all the way to the end, ended up covering the end of my palms, about 5cm over my wrist bone, while Mach ones with plenty of Velcro to spare were just at my wrist.

I also tried the Elite size Medium as it was the only medium sized C/A they had, and the arms length was okay, but when I had my hands loose on sides of my body, I felt the them pulling down the whole unit on my shoulders.

Maybe I have T-Rex arms or just don’t fit well into Bauer

Edited April 5 by havlicekdom

[RichMan]

5 hours ago, ilyazhito said:

Interesting. So the arms are adjustable to a certain degree, but custom is the best (and most expensive) option for someone with odd body proportions (e.g. S torso, M arms). 

Exactly. If you're in Canada, The Hockey Shop offer these kind of options for pro models.

3 hours ago, havlicekdom said:

Torso-wise I think both models would work for me, but the arms were weird, the HL2, arms Velcro all the way to the end, ended up covering the end of my palms, about 5cm over my wrist bone, while Mach ones with plenty of Velcro to spare were just at my wrist.

I also tried the Elite size Medium as it was the only medium sized C/A they had, and the arms length was okay, but when I had my hands loose on sides of my body, I felt the them pulling down the whole unit on my shoulders.

Maybe I have T-Rex arms or just don’t fit well into Bauer

I understand what you mean about the Elite. If the arms were fully independent, like on the AB18 or the Premier, it might not feel as heavy on the shoulders. I think there's a need to come up with a way where the arms will move which ever way without involving the shoulder or harness itself. I got some brainstorming to do  

[Fullright]

Another excellent topic @RichMan. Pretty well written too.

I am old and small. 61 yrs old and 5'6" and when I'm in hockey shape I weigh in at about 160lbs. Sleeve length in a dress shirt is 33 on the left arm and 34 on the right. In a dress shirt, I wear a 16.5" neck or depending on the shirt maker a 17" neck. I detest big equipment. For me, it is more important that I can move than block. I wouldnt characterize my playing style as acrobatic nor as standup. I am certainly not a blocking goalie; I lack the size to play that way. I suppose in modern nomenclature I am a hybrid goalie. My film is here in the video section so I am not sure what any observer would call me. I wouldnt argue the label anyway so your choice is fine w me.

My C/A is the same one I've used for about 28 years made by Heaton. Over time, I've replaced worn out arm pad sections using sections from a "mule" bought at a 2nd hand store. A few years ago, I bulked up the floaters and chest by doubling up the floaters and belly pad from a medium youth C/A from CCM. The Heaton set is not wide from side to side; my mods added thickness front to back. This has kept my ability to move and not only added protection, but also helped with soaking up pucks to my torso. 

I have tried on modern CCM, Bauer, and Vaughn in the store and considered Passau C/A. I cant recall the specific models but they were senior level. They were just too big. The floaters clashed w my throat portion of my bucket. The chest portion was too long extending below my waiste, and felt too heavy and bulky. The same applied to the arm protection. I prefer my wrists to be able to extend and flex my hands. The sleeves went too far into my gloves and major surgery would be required to get the sleeves shortened to my preferred length. So, I think my bottom line is my preference is for my C/A not to extend far, if at all, beyond the plane of my torso and arms. I maybe an outlying relic for this juicy topic; there arent any physically small goalies any more playing at advanced youth levels or end of the road mens leagues. The dude at the other end is always much bigger than I. I was blessed to play junior and college in the Dark Ages; a person with my dimensions wouldnt even get a shot at a tryout these days. So I dont think gear designers consider a small goalie when they are working at the drawing board. Why should they? It would be like buidling a bird cage for a Dodo. 

[RichMan]

@Fullright thanks man. So where do I send the check?

Are you in the Heaton 90z or the H5?

True,  the the basic geometry nowadays is quite different in the shoulders and chest. A straight cut bottom like what I think you're in right now or the traditional Vaughn 5500 model tends to favor shorter goalies.

[Fullright]

The model label is too worn down to tell me the model number and I've had it so long that I just dont remember. If it provides a clue, the Heaton label is embroidered in the left floater, The bottom of the chest pad is straight across. Useless side note: sometime after I bought, I realized it was made for a goalie who catches with the left hand. The right sleeve has extra protection on the elbow. 

[RichMan]

@Fullright I know Bauer had the Reactor 5 that was sold lefty or righty. Brown can still make one custom like that. Miller also could custom like that when Paul Fricker was partner with Glenn.

I wasn't aware Heaton did that too.

[Fullright]

10 hours ago, RichMan said:

@Fullright I know Bauer had the Reactor 5 that was sold lefty or righty. Brown can still make one custom like that. Miller also could custom like that when Paul Fricker was partner with Glenn.

I wasn't aware Heaton did that too.

Obviously, me neither. The unit was such a big evolution at the time. Up till then, I used heavily modified Cooper SA 95 and a Thompson "Turtle" chest protector. I think I was so excited about not getting major dents anymore (still got them anyway; just not as often) to the torso and arms, I didnt even realize the arm difference for several months after buying it. 

Watching the Hawks game yesterday afternoon, Pang had a segment with Mrazek between periods covering modern gear. I couldnt catch which brand he uses but he mentioned the slim line policy of the NHL. The unit though looked pretty stout. It has what he says is Kevlar pieces through out. Pang knocked on it and it sounded like knocking on a door. 

Edited April 8 by Fullright

[RichMan]

@Fullright see, this whole kevlar talk just doesn't make sense to me in a chest protector. When we say we're stopping bullets, it's just a figure of speach

It might help with durability but what really protects us are the different foams and plastics used.

[ArdeFIN]

1. It's annoying that C/A is marketed by the whole body length of a person and also wingspan/wrist to wrist/something else to add. But actually to get a proper fit you should use measures like neck-waist and wrist to arm pit to get some real fitting. And for the body part you should also select model between tuck and un-tuck. Sure that would be impossible to fill in with less than dozen of different size combinations or separate body and arm parts. There is a small reference to pads, some manufacturers still list persons height as a measure to select correct pad size while most are already using mainly the ATK/FTK to fit pads.

2. Adjusting C/A but especially arms is a lot more than just let some more length from the shoulder or pull all of the loose off there. It sure does help to hit elbow better or open up/cover wrist better but this is once again fitting yourself to something there is. And again it would reguire a lot of engineering to add some extra adjustments to cover arms better atleast.

I don't know if can write it out what I'm trying to tell you but I've struggled with these fit issues when I made my C/A projects. Not many of them but a few.

[mik]

On 4/5/2024 at 8:17 PM, havlicekdom said:

Torso-wise I think both models would work for me, but the arms were weird, the HL2, arms Velcro all the way to the end, ended up covering the end of my palms, about 5cm over my wrist bone, while Mach ones with plenty of Velcro to spare were just at my wrist.

I also tried the Elite size Medium as it was the only medium sized C/A they had, and the arms length was okay, but when I had my hands loose on sides of my body, I felt the them pulling down the whole unit on my shoulders.

Maybe I have T-Rex arms or just don’t fit well into Bauer

Sorry, but I have to :

 

[RichMan]

20 hours ago, ArdeFIN said:

1. It's annoying that C/A is marketed by the whole body length of a person and also wingspan/wrist to wrist/something else to add. But actually to get a proper fit you should use measures like neck-waist and wrist to arm pit to get some real fitting. And for the body part you should also select model between tuck and un-tuck. Sure that would be impossible to fill in with less than dozen of different size combinations or separate body and arm parts. There is a small reference to pads, some manufacturers still list persons height as a measure to select correct pad size while most are already using mainly the ATK/FTK to fit pads.

 

Brown does this exactly. It's very impressive what John has done over the years and this explains his excellent reputation. If you want the perfect fit and top protection, he's your man.

[Cass]

1 hour ago, RichMan said:

Brown does this exactly. It's very impressive what John has done over the years and this explains his excellent reputation. If you want the perfect fit and top protection, he's your man.

This ^^^^^

[RichMan]

Just to update with some personal feedback, on the weekend I went to a local PIAS and I saw a Brian's Optik2 c/a. It looked massive and I thought it was a large or even xlarge. I looked closer and it was a medium. Just for kicks I decided to try it on. Keep in mind I'm 6'2, 195?lbs. I don't have a super long torso, more legs is what makes me tall. Although I've always worn a large and my recent xlarge c/a (a mistake I'm sure) is clearly too long as some witnessed with my pics, the Optik seemed to almost fit???

I swear there's no rhyme or reason with gear today. I fiddled a bit with it but so much velcro here and there and everywhere, green eggs and confused Sam I am!!!

The more I see things, the more I favor the Bauer 2S/1S and Pro Series, as well as the P1 series of old. Straps and lacing, that's it, plain and simple.

[Fullright]

I dont know; when it comes to selling things, it's all about the bucks, isnt it? I am not imputing anything to the gear manufacturers. Their business is selling stuff and we're all gear sluts one way or another and most of us want the latest and "greatest". In other words, they have a built in market: us and, in an effort to be better, most of us chase new gear. Add to that the rule changes about gear in The Show and it filters down to all levels. When I get dressed, I am usually amazed at the other goalie and all the things he has to clip, snap, and buckle from the waist up. More than not, he looks at me and says "you must be nuts" which I just ignore or smile in response. 

It would be silly not to use modern materials but the stuff has to fit and has to help us do the job. I agree @RichMan; Brown cannot be beat for form and function. I havent done business with Passau in 3 or 4 years but I got really close to pulling the trigger with them on a new C/A. Getting something off the peg at the hockey store especially for the C/A seems like a roll of the dice. How it works in the store is a whole different deal on the ice.