Poke Checks and Tripping

[estogoalie]

I had a penalty shot over the weekend, and did a poke check attempt that would up tripping the guy. There wasn't any call against me, and nobody complained (this time), but in the past there have been a few ticked-off forwards. I'm just wondering what are the rules here? Is it ok just so long as I am playing the puck? I mean can I just charge him with a 2-pad stack and seam-roll him? And who's to determine intent? I mean in my example video here, I jammed my stick right under his skate blade and sent him sailing (credit to him, he still got his shot off!). I was really going after the puck, but then he pulled it back in a deke, and well s*!t happened. But what if I actually had been targeting his skate and scored a direct hit? I mean who's to say my intent but me, right?

 

[bunnyman666]

Who cares if it trips them? Especially if it is one of those Donny McDangles types? Trip them and cross-check them on the way down... 

[IPv6Freely]

During normal play, that would have been pretty much a guaranteed tripping penalty. In a penalty shot or shootout they'll usually let it go if it was obviously a play for the puck. 

That said, if you want to go strictly based on rules, then USA Hockey 406(d) says another penalty shot would be permitted if the initial penalty shot does not result in a goal. 

So you definitely got away with one in the video above, though just based on precedent (rather than the rulebook), I'm not terribly surprised.

Disclaimer: This is for USA Hockey, but I believe Hockey Canada and IIHF would be the same result. 

[IPv6Freely]

2 minutes ago, bunnyman666 said:

Who cares if it trips them? Especially if it is one of those Donny McDangles types? Trip them and cross-check them on the way down... 

I mean, if you're okay with them getting another penalty shot, sure. 

[bunnyman666]

2 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

I mean, if you're okay with them getting another penalty shot, sure. 

I never can quite show the tongue in my cheek, can I?

LOL

[Moose75]

I once broke a stick because of a poke check like this. Poke checked some fancy-handed rube when his head was down, and he landed on my stick, cracking it in half. It was only the second game with that stick and I immediately regretted my decision. I call it the pyrrhic poke check.

That said, if miss the puck and have the time, I always try to drag my stick in range of their feet with the hopes they'll step on it. Men's leaguers either shoot or try way too many moves.

 

So to add to gray areas of goalie actions resulting in penalties: we've seen Bobrovsky throw down his stick on purpose then sliding to make saves. To non-NHL refs, could this be seen as "throwing the stick" and result in a penalty shot/penalty? 

[estogoalie]

I remember Hasek doing some crazy s*!t, and sometimes he got a penalty, sometimes not. For ex, here's two, one a call, and the other none

 

 

 

[IPv6Freely]

Just now, Moose75 said:

I once broke a stick because of a poke check like this. Poke checked some fancy-handed rube when his head was down, and he landed on my stick, cracking it in half. It was only the second game with that stick and I immediately regretted my decision. I call it the pyrrhic poke check.

That said, if miss the puck and have the time, I always try to drag my stick in range of their feet with the hopes they'll step on it.

 

So to add to gray areas of goalie actions resulting in penalties: we've seen Bobrovsky throw down his stick on purpose then sliding to make saves. To non-NHL refs, could this be seen as "throwing the stick" and result in a penalty shot/penalty? 

You're not alone in the dragging your stick. There's been a few times where I've been beaten on a deke and kind of swatted the stick just hoping to knock the trip the guy. At worst they just award him another penalty shot (if he doesn't already score), at best I get lucky, they don't call it, and I save a goal. LOL.

As for the second bit: No, dropping your stick to make a save is completely legal. As long as there's no throwing motion, you're fine. Of course this is referee discretion so be careful. 

[bunnyman666]

3 minutes ago, estogoalie said:

I remember Hasek doing some crazy s*!t, and sometimes he got a penalty, sometimes not. For ex, here's two, one a call, and the other none

Dominator is my HERO!!!!!

[IPv6Freely]

2 minutes ago, estogoalie said:

I remember Hasek doing some crazy s*!t, and sometimes he got a penalty, sometimes not. For ex, here's two, one a call, and the other none

There's a pretty significant difference in these two plays. The first one, he just barrels into the guys legs, puck be damned. The second one, the puck is a couple feet in front of the puck carrier and sliding into the puck (and subsequently taking out the player) is legal. 

[estogoalie]

1 minute ago, IPv6Freely said:

There's a pretty significant difference in these two plays. The first one, he just barrels into the guys legs, puck be damned. The second one, the puck is a couple feet in front of the puck carrier and sliding into the puck (and subsequently taking out the player) is legal. 

No, not really, same play in my eyes, the only difference was Gaborik had his head down and didn't see Dom coming. In the second video, the player had his head up and simply jumped over Hasek.

[Moose75]

On 12/11/2017 at 3:27 PM, IPv6Freely said:

Of course this is referee discretion so be careful. 

And there is why I am afraid to try it, haha. As much as I respect and don't envy (most) refs for the hard job they often times have, I have trust issues with some that do my games. One refs non-call is another's penalty shot. Which is why certain calls have gray areas, I feel.

[Moose75]

Then there's this method, haha!

[IPv6Freely]

1 minute ago, estogoalie said:

No, not really, same play in my eyes, the only difference was Gaborik had his head down and didn't see Dom coming. In the second video, the player had his head up and simply jumped over Hasek.

The player reaction certainly had something to do with the outcome (which can sometimes obscure a referee's judgement) but what happened before the contact was different between the two videos. 

[IPv6Freely]

On 12/11/2017 at 3:34 PM, Moose75 said:

Then there's this method, haha!

That guy is just a douchebag. 

[estogoalie]

Ok, here's a better example, Turco was clearly playing the puck, even got it, but tripped the forward in the process, and ended up in a penalty. Ok, yea, these kinda things are 50/50 call up to the ref I guess. And yea, a backflip by the forward will increase the chance of a penalty to 90/10

[IPv6Freely]

1 minute ago, estogoalie said:

Ok, here's a better example, Turco was clearly playing the puck, even got it, but tripped the forward in the process, and ended up in a penalty. Ok, yea, these kinda things are 50/50 call up to the ref I guess.

Yes, I disagree completely with the referee on this one. 

[estogoalie]

1 minute ago, IPv6Freely said:

Yes, I disagree completely with the referee on this one. 

Yea, that shouldn't be a penalty in my eyes either, Truco was clearly going for the puck, and even ducked a little so the forward could go over him easier (well, Turco is pretty short to start with, so I don't know how much more he can duck :-P )

[coopaloop1234]

On 12/11/2017 at 3:35 PM, IPv6Freely said:

That guy is just a douchebag. 

You mean brilliant genius. Can't blame him for playing within the rules.

[IPv6Freely]

On 12/11/2017 at 4:15 PM, coopaloop1234 said:

You mean brilliant genius. Can't blame him for playing within the rules.

They made a rule after he did this to prevent it from happening again.

[coopaloop1234]

On 12/11/2017 at 4:35 PM, IPv6Freely said:

They made a rule after he did this to prevent it from happening again.

In the AHL. I don't think they've done it in the Euro league he's in yet.

Hell, even the NHL will still allow the same thing to occur.

Quote

63.5 Penalty Shot - If the goal post is deliberately displaced by a goalkeeper or player during the course of a “breakaway,” a penalty
shot will be awarded to the non-offending team, which shot shall be
taken by the player last in possession of the puck.

[Moose75]

The Turco poke check method is the best. I remember him saying he'd only do it once they put their heads down so it completely caught them by surprise when they looked back up.

[WillyGrips13]

That Turco video just reminds me how much I can’t stand Ed Olczyk in commentary. 

[IPv6Freely]

Yeah he’s brutal

[Moose75]

Those that can't play coach. Those that can't coach do NBC commentary. 

I remember in one game I just had it and hit the mute button. He kept going on about how Carey Price kept going down early whenever Price was using RVH. If you're gonna commentate at least know what is "hip" and "with it" in 2017 for goalies. 

While on that subject, I don't enjoy Doc Emrick much either. It's like listening to C-3P0 telling stories to the Ewoks in Return of the Jedi.