NME VTX Deconstruction

[TheGoalNet]

Not sure how many of these threads we’ll get... 

but here’s what a VTX looks like deconstructed 

[coopaloop1234]

[BadAngle41]

I do like the mechanical attachment of the padding. Clean and simple.

Given how it fits the contours of the shell, am I correct assuming if you want to continue to use mechanical attachment you'd need to stay w/ OEM padding? 

[TheGoalNet]

25 minutes ago, BadAngle41 said:

I do like the mechanical attachment of the padding. Clean and simple.

Given how it fits the contours of the shell, am I correct assuming if you want to continue to use mechanical attachment you'd need to stay w/ OEM padding? 

I am not sure I follow? Who else is making mechanical attachments for other people's shells?

[coopaloop1234]

31 minutes ago, BadAngle41 said:

I do like the mechanical attachment of the padding. Clean and simple.

Given how it fits the contours of the shell, am I correct assuming if you want to continue to use mechanical attachment you'd need to stay w/ OEM padding?

Pretty sure you can rip it all out and go custom padding if you want. Aside from some screw holes, doesn't look too different than any other shell.

[BadAngle41]

1 hour ago, TheGoalNet said:

I am not sure I follow? Who else is making mechanical attachments for other people's shells?

Sorry... kinda dumped everyone midway into a thought. What I meant is that based on the liner being contoured specifically to the shell if you wanted to change out your liner and maintain mechanical attachment your only option would be OEM. If this type of liners become more prevalent, I wonder if any aftermarket padding company would try and step in to make a mechanically attached liner as well, at least for the major brands.

1 hour ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Pretty sure you can rip it all out and go custom padding if you want. Aside from some screw holes, doesn't look too different than any other shell.

Agreed. No reason you can't do full custom with adhesive backed materials. 

[BadAngle41]

Maybe I'm late to the show here... but am I reading this right?? NME VTX comes w/ an extra cage? (taken from GoalieMonkey.com)

[coopaloop1234]

Must be an American thing.

1. It's illegal to cell non-cert cat eye cages in Canada
2. All the stores in Canada I've looked at online don't mention a replacement cage in any fashion.

[Kapz]

Pro Hockey Life sells them with a replacement cage in Canada.

[BadAngle41]

43 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Must be an American thing.

1. It's illegal to cell non-cert cat eye cages in Canada
2. All the stores in Canada I've looked at online don't mention a replacement cage in any fashion.

Cheeseburgers... Apple Pie.. and not one but TWO Non-Cert Cat Eye Cages... what a country!!!

[coopaloop1234]

33 minutes ago, Kapz said:

Pro Hockey Life sells them with a replacement cage in Canada.

You may be right. Their website doesn't have any description and the one posted above from The Hockey Shop doesn't mention it.

These masks may all come with it, I was just basing my information off of what I was able to find online.

[BadAngle41]

32 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

You may be right. Their website doesn't have any description and the one posted above from The Hockey Shop doesn't mention it.

These masks may all come with it, I was just basing my information off of what I was able to find online.

What's weird is that only the Non-Cert Cat Eye has that note on GoalieMonkey for the US, Certified Straight Bar doesn't mention it.

[mr_shifty1982]

It's true, they are not allowed to sell the cat-eye which is the only cage I use! When I bought my 960xpm I just ordered a cage and replaced it, sold the other one.  

FYI took a really hard wrist shot on Sunday right at the cage, feeling great! haha

[maxtm30]

On 6/12/2018 at 12:32 PM, BadAngle41 said:

Maybe I'm late to the show here... but am I reading this right?? NME VTX comes w/ an extra cage? (taken from GoalieMonkey.com)

I can confirm, just received mine with 2 certified wires (I'm Canadian eh!)

[goalieThreeOne]

On 6/12/2018 at 11:07 AM, BadAngle41 said:

Sorry... kinda dumped everyone midway into a thought. What I meant is that based on the liner being contoured specifically to the shell if you wanted to change out your liner and maintain mechanical attachment your only option would be OEM. If this type of liners become more prevalent, I wonder if any aftermarket padding company would try and step in to make a mechanically attached liner as well, at least for the major brands.

Agreed. No reason you can't do full custom with adhesive backed materials. 

The mechanically attached liner has been a part of the NME line since the beginning. Interestingly, although it is super easy to remove, Bauer will not sell you a new padding kit. They just won't. I went through this when I was refurbing my NME7. So if you want a replacement, you're limited to aftermarket suppliers and adhesive attachment. Unless you pull the interior out of another NME yourself. If some company was going to make a mechanically attached aftermarket replacement, they would have done it by now. My suspicion is that it's just too much R&D work for a small company to take one for just one shell type that isn't even the most popular model Bauer sells. Not to mention two different shell sizes and three different fits for the senior model alone.

[bunnyman666]

5 hours ago, goalieThreeOne said:

The mechanically attached liner has been a part of the NME line since the beginning. Interestingly, although it is super easy to remove, Bauer will not sell you a new padding kit. They just won't. I went through this when I was refurbing my NME7. So if you want a replacement, you're limited to aftermarket suppliers and adhesive attachment. Unless you pull the interior out of another NME yourself. If some company was going to make a mechanically attached aftermarket replacement, they would have done it by now. My suspicion is that it's just too much R&D work for a small company to take one for just one shell type that isn't even the most popular model Bauer sells. Not to mention two different shell sizes and three different fits for the senior model alone.

Bauer wants you to replace everything every few years, including your mask. They think you’re made of money and have a money tree in your back garden if you play goal. Bull shit if you ask me.

Between Bauer’s disposable pro pads and now their disposable mask, I have NO use for Bauer, PERIOD.

[BadAngle41]

20 hours ago, goalieThreeOne said:

The mechanically attached liner has been a part of the NME line since the beginning. Interestingly, although it is super easy to remove, Bauer will not sell you a new padding kit. They just won't. I went through this when I was refurbing my NME7. So if you want a replacement, you're limited to aftermarket suppliers and adhesive attachment. Unless you pull the interior out of another NME yourself. If some company was going to make a mechanically attached aftermarket replacement, they would have done it by now. My suspicion is that it's just too much R&D work for a small company to take one for just one shell type that isn't even the most popular model Bauer sells. Not to mention two different shell sizes and three different fits for the senior model alone.

14 hours ago, bunnyman666 said:

Bauer wants you to replace everything every few years, including your mask. They think you’re made of money and have a money tree in your back garden if you play goal. Bull shit if you ask me.

Between Bauer’s disposable pro pads and now their disposable mask, I have NO use for Bauer, PERIOD.

That's a shame to hear... and actually pretty surprising about Bauer not making replacement kits available. I mean why go to the trouble of a mechanical liner if the only one (if anyone) who would remove it is a painter? Oh well.

[coopaloop1234]

21 hours ago, goalieThreeOne said:

The mechanically attached liner has been a part of the NME line since the beginning. Interestingly, although it is super easy to remove, Bauer will not sell you a new padding kit. They just won't. I went through this when I was refurbing my NME7. So if you want a replacement, you're limited to aftermarket suppliers and adhesive attachment. Unless you pull the interior out of another NME yourself. If some company was going to make a mechanically attached aftermarket replacement, they would have done it by now. My suspicion is that it's just too much R&D work for a small company to take one for just one shell type that isn't even the most popular model Bauer sells. Not to mention two different shell sizes and three different fits for the senior model alone.

That's brutal. Bauer's aftermarket support is pretty abysmal. Take for an example my inability to purchase the rubber S.A.W. grommets for the C2 Concept mask anymore. Very frustrating that I'm on the verge of needing to replace my helmet due to a price of rubber and not because of any actual structural deficiency.

1 hour ago, BadAngle41 said:

That's a shame to hear... and actually pretty surprising about Bauer not making replacement kits available. I mean why go to the trouble of a mechanical liner if the only one (if anyone) who would remove it is a painter? Oh well.

I wonder if it reduces any errors in the manufacturing/assembly process?

[TheGoalNet]

16 hours ago, bunnyman666 said:

Bauer wants you to replace everything every few years, including your mask. They think you’re made of money and have a money tree in your back garden if you play goal. Bull shit if you ask me.

Between Bauer’s disposable pro pads and now their disposable mask, I have NO use for Bauer, PERIOD.

I am not disputing who's quality is best. My comment is in regards to Bauer vs Bauer here. 

To my knowledge, 1X had significantly improved durability than 1S. 1S made a running change to the product to fix durability as well.

2S is being touted as significantly more durable than 1S and the CORskin is thicker. Bauer, and every other company, definitely want to sell you lots of gear, but they don't want to get a black eye doing it. 

OD1N goalie gear may been rushed to market and that was the issue. Bauer has taken the complaints seriously and worked to get it better. The didn't just design a new goalie pad or new material, they invented a new way of making a goalie pad. Whether you want to be patient with their internal learning curve as they try to perfect their product is a different topic... But not all these companies are soleless robots. Making pads that wore down too easily was not part of the plan... 

And I couldn't agree more about the liner. Odd to not sell replacements. 

[BadAngle41]

32 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

I wonder if it reduces any errors in the manufacturing/assembly process?

If it does, it doesn't do it enough to push it to the rest of their lines... which makes it all the more curious why they do it in the first place.

[TheGoalNet]

26 minutes ago, BadAngle41 said:

If it does, it doesn't do it enough to push it to the rest of their lines... which makes it all the more curious why they do it in the first place.

FWIW I know @BMFSdesigns and pretty much all painters love the Bauer system. It makes their lives way easier. 

[bunnyman666]

1 hour ago, TheGoalNet said:

I am not disputing who's quality is best. My comment is in regards to Bauer vs Bauer here. 

To my knowledge, 1X had significantly improved durability than 1S. 1S made a running change to the product to fix durability as well.

2S is being touted as significantly more durable than 1S and the CORskin is thicker. Bauer, and every other company, definitely want to sell you lots of gear, but they don't want to get a black eye doing it. 

OD1N goalie gear may been rushed to market and that was the issue. Bauer has taken the complaints seriously and worked to get it better. The didn't just design a new goalie pad or new material, they invented a new way of making a goalie pad. Whether you want to be patient with their internal learning curve as they try to perfect their product is a different topic... But not all these companies are soleless robots. Making pads that wore down too easily was not part of the plan... 

And I couldn't agree more about the liner. Odd to not sell replacements. 

No doubt Bauer is innovative. Great performing pad with low durability innovates people to buy more gear. A helmet that you can’t replace the liner innovates quick and planned obsolescence. Their stuff may perform, but it is designed for quick need to replace. 

I just have a bad taste in my mouth from Bauer from the Odin pads, then the throw away mask. No Bauer for me any longer. I won’t even buy a Bauer jock short...

[goalieThreeOne]

17 hours ago, BadAngle41 said:

That's a shame to hear... and actually pretty surprising about Bauer not making replacement kits available. I mean why go to the trouble of a mechanical liner if the only one (if anyone) who would remove it is a painter? Oh well.

It's a liability thing, I'm sure. In fact I'm not sure of any of the big brands have ever offered foam replacement kits for their masks. We live in a litigious society.

Doesn't bother me any. I'd rather replace it all with Maltese that holds up basically forever than swap out the tan foam every two years.

[BadAngle41]

7 hours ago, goalieThreeOne said:

It's a liability thing, I'm sure. In fact I'm not sure of any of the big brands have ever offered foam replacement kits for their masks. We live in a litigious society.

Doesn't bother me any. I'd rather replace it all with Maltese that holds up basically forever than swap out the tan foam every two years.

I agree... which again just makes it all the more curious as to why they put a mechanically attached liner in a portion of their offering. I still need to do a refurb or two on a Hackva and a a WJD and I would likely opt for Maltese as well.

[TheGoalNet]

8 hours ago, goalieThreeOne said:

It's a liability thing, I'm sure. In fact I'm not sure of any of the big brands have ever offered foam replacement kits for their masks. We live in a litigious society.

Doesn't bother me any. I'd rather replace it all with Maltese that holds up basically forever than swap out the tan foam every two years.

I tend to agree, it's probably something like this that is way outside our traditional thought process 

How is a cage different than foam though?