OGs of Innovation

[TheGoalNet]

As there's so many trends right now in goaltending equipment and technology is becoming the biggest selling feature, I thought it would be interesting to track the OGs of a given technology.

Here are my thoughts, agree or disagree?

Hard rebounds: CCM Premier XLT

Fast sliding: Bauer Supreme 1S

Flat boot: CCM EFlex 1 - Not the first, but started the dialog on the topic

Box style pad: Vaughn V1 - Not the first, but the first commercially successful

Elastic Strapping: Brian's Sub Zero 1

Foam core pad: Heaton Helite II - Not the first, but the first commercially successful

Solid core pad - RBK Premier II

[coopaloop1234]

Going to have to disagree with the flat boot one. That was a velocity staple for years before the eflex 1. It was a defining selling feature for the velocity series compared to the premier series so much so that when newer users on GSBB would come and ask about which pad to get, it was among the top listed specs. Along side toe taper and stuffed core.

[TheGoalNet]

9 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Going to have to disagree with the flat boot one. That was a velocity staple for years before the eflex 1. It was a defining selling feature for the velocity series compared to the premier series so much so that when newer users on GSBB would come and ask about which pad to get, it was among the top listed specs. Along side toe taper and stuffed core.

Fair point. I had thought of that, but part of my rationale was which brand made it a talking point?

I don't remember Vaughn pointing out a flat boot and making it a talking point. I think CCM recognized this point and made it part of goalie vernacular.  CCM had 2 boot angles and Vaughn really only had 1.

I think this is Vaughn's own fault. Same as Vaughn used composite materials inside the pads before Bauer, but Bauer better understood how to explain the benefits of composites to goalie consumers.

There's opinion aspects to this list for sure, but hopefully that explanation makes things clearer.

[coopaloop1234]

1 minute ago, TheGoalNet said:

Fair point. I had thought of that, but part of my rationale was which brand made it a talking point?

I don't remember Vaughn pointing out a flat boot and making it a talking point. I think CCM recognized this point and made it part of goalie vernacular.  CCM had 2 boot angles and Vaughn really only had 1.

I think this is Vaughn's own fault. Same as Vaughn used composite materials inside the pads before Bauer, but Bauer better understood how to explain the benefits of composites to goalie consumers.

There's opinion aspects to this list for sure, but hopefully that explanation makes things clearer.

Nah, that's a fair enough stance. But do we want to differentiate to who was first, who made it a staple of their lines, or who made it a talking point?

Though, to be fair. Vaughn did have the Vision line that had an angled boot akin to the premier line a few years before the Eflex line came out. But I don't think there was a lot of commercail success with that line.

[Peanutbutterfly]

Did the Heaton II have a foam core in the way we think of it today? Or was it more of a foam stuffed pad. Vaughn Legacy pads were a wildly commercially successful foam stuffed pad that I'm pretty sure predates the the Heaton pad. Not to mention Coopers pad line went to foam back in 88 or 89. You can't really say Coopers gear wasn't a commercial success, their stuff was everywhere. Disclaimer, my memory of when the Heaton II was released is a bit fuzzy. There's also the Winlite/Aeroflex pad entry into the world of, but were they technically a commercial success?

[TheGoalNet]

1 hour ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Nah, that's a fair enough stance. But do we want to differentiate to who was first, who made it a staple of their lines, or who made it a talking point?

Though, to be fair. Vaughn did have the Vision line that had an angled boot akin to the premier line a few years before the Eflex line came out. But I don't think there was a lot of commercail success with that line.

This a fair point...

[TheGoalNet]

35 minutes ago, Peanutbutterfly said:

Did the Heaton II have a foam core in the way we think of it today? Or was it more of a foam stuffed pad. Vaughn Legacy pads were a wildly commercially successful foam stuffed pad that I'm pretty sure predates the the Heaton pad. Not to mention Coopers pad line went to foam back in 88 or 89. You can't really say Coopers gear wasn't a commercial success, their stuff was everywhere. Disclaimer, my memory of when the Heaton II was released is a bit fuzzy. There's also the Winlite/Aeroflex pad entry into the world of, but were they technically a commercial success?

I didn't know the Cooper pads were foam stuffed, so yes, that would definitely qualify. Are you 100% on this? Which line are you referring too specifically?

 I remember catalogs as a kids mentioning that Heaton Helite pads were stuffed with foam and the Pro90z was deer hair. As with the earlier comment about Vaughn, I don't ever remember Vaughn talking about internals. I didn't know that about the Legacy until you just said that.

[TheGoalNet]

2 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

As there's so many trends right now in goaltending equipment and technology is becoming the biggest selling feature, I thought it would be interesting to track the OGs of a given technology.

Here are my thoughts, agree or disagree?

Hard rebounds: CCM Premier XLT

Fast sliding: Bauer Supreme 1S

Flat boot: CCM EFlex 1 - Not the first, but started the dialog on the topic

Box style pad: Vaughn V1 - Not the first, but the first commercially successful

Elastic Strapping: Brian's Sub Zero 1

Foam core pad: Heaton Helite II - Not the first, but the first commercially successful

Solid core pad - RBK Premier II

2.0...

Here are my thoughts, agree or disagree?

Hard rebounds: CCM Premier XLT

Fast sliding: Bauer Supreme 1S

Flat boot: CCM EFlex 1 popularized the discussion, Vaughn started the trend with V1.

Box style pad: Vaughn V1 popularized the discussion, but Winlite started the concept

Elastic Strapping: Brian's Sub Zero 1

Foam core pad: Heaton Helite II - Not the first, but the first commercially successful

Solid core pad - RBK Premier II

Composite Stick - Bauer Supreme NXG popularized the discussion, but TPS response started the concept

1 Piece glove - Reebok P3 popularized the discussion, but CCM blockade started the concept

Bindingless pads - Warrior by Smith

[dualshowman]

2 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

Bindingless pads - Warrior by Smith

Popularized by Warrior, existed as the Smith SP6000 for years prior. 

[TheGoalNet]

13 minutes ago, dualshowman said:

Popularized by Warrior, existed as the Smith SP6000 for years prior. 

ha, that's complicated! Sorta 1 in the same. Sorta different

[dualshowman]

45 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

ha, that's complicated! Sorta 1 in the same. Sorta different

My feelings on 'composite stick' are just that: Complicated. I would strongly consider "foam core" to be the genesis of the composite goalie stick, the composite being wood, fiberglass and a foam core. While I cannot pin down when foam core sticks arrived at retail, I can say with certainty that they were a quiet game changer for puck handling goalies. I was, for the most part, a glass-wrapped, all wood Sher-Wood user as a teenager. I recall buying a Branches stick that was marketed as a glass-shell-over-foam, and I was instantly lofting passes to the centerline. It was so much lighter and so much more flexible than anything I recall at the time. In fact, it was so flexible that I folded it into two pieces skating out to play a loose puck while leaning heavily into a pass. I recall looking at it in the locker room after the game and a few of us were chuckling about what looked like Styrofoam inside the paddle.

[Peanutbutterfly]

1 hour ago, TheGoalNet said:

I didn't know the Cooper pads were foam stuffed, so yes, that would definitely qualify. Are you 100% on this? Which line are you referring too specifically?

 I remember catalogs as a kids mentioning that Heaton Helite pads were stuffed with foam and the Pro90z was deer hair. As with the earlier comment about Vaughn, I don't ever remember Vaughn talking about internals. I didn't know that about the Legacy until you just said that.

I found via google images an old Heaton catalog from 1993 that had the Helite II and Pro90z. You're correct the Helite's were stuffed with foam and the 90z with deer hair. I want to say that the original Vaughn Legacy hit the market in 1988 or 89. I remember this because I badly wanted them. They were foam stuffed and cordura faced. They were so popular that the wait time was crazy long for a set. I ended up settling on Cooper GP-Pro's instead, they were also foam stuffed and even had a solid  high density type foam in the shin.thigh rise. The GP-Pro line quickly evolved into the Cooper Legends pad.

  

[dualshowman]

45 minutes ago, Peanutbutterfly said:

I found via google images an old Heaton catalog from 1993 that had the Helite II and Pro90z. You're correct the Helite's were stuffed with foam and the 90z with deer hair. I want to say that the original Vaughn Legacy hit the market in 1988 or 89. I remember this because I badly wanted them. They were foam stuffed and cordura faced. They were so popular that the wait time was crazy long for a set. I ended up settling on Cooper GP-Pro's instead, they were also foam stuffed and even had a solid  high density type foam in the shin.thigh rise. The GP-Pro line quickly evolved into the Cooper Legends pad.

I recall the much the same, but I did not recall the Pro 90Z being an all-deer hair pad. I was certain it was a hybrid deer hair/kapok & foam model, but you would know better than I. I was under the impression the the Heaton Pro 90Z was to compete with Brian's 'AirPac' Lines (Alite, specifically), and the Helite was a Legacy competitor.

I do remember Vaughn Legacy pads being unobtainium-like for what seemed like years. The GP-PRO/Legend pads were wild to me as a kid, not to mention rare in my area.

[Peanutbutterfly]

1 hour ago, dualshowman said:

I recall the much the same, but I did not recall the Pro 90Z being an all-deer hair pad. I was certain it was a hybrid deer hair/kapok & foam model, but you would know better than I. I was under the impression the the Heaton Pro 90Z was to compete with Brian's 'AirPac' Lines (Alite, specifically), and the Helite was a Legacy competitor.

I do remember Vaughn Legacy pads being unobtainium-like for what seemed like years. The GP-PRO/Legend pads were wild to me as a kid, not to mention rare in my area.

I think I got the Helite and Pro 90z backwards. Pretty sure you are right, the Helite II had foam and deer hair, no deer hair in the 90z. I recall my local pro shop had a set of Legacy pads when they first launched, but they were in Rangers colors. My teams color were green and white. I couldn't bring myself to clash! Where I grew up in CT, a lot of guys had the GP-PRO's. Like everything else Cooper, they seemed to have pretty strong market penetration. Heaton gear was extremely rare in my area, as was Brians. Also rare, Brown. I went to a spring goalie clinic in 1991 and damn near everyone wanted to try on my Brown glove and blocker.

[TheGoalNet]

1994

Helite 3 "Foam filled pad"

Pro90z "Deer hair construction"

1998

Helite 5 replaces 90z

"New polyfiber/foam pad design"

[Peanutbutterfly]

Back to the OG question. My money is on Vaughn for the first commercially successful foam pad. But you can not discount Winlite/Aeroflex, they came before the Vaughn Legacy pad, but both brands fizzled pretty quick, so can that be considered successful?

[dualshowman]

1 hour ago, TheGoalNet said:

1994

Helite 3 "Foam filled pad"

Pro90z "Deer hair construction"

1998

Helite 5 replaces 90z

"New polyfiber/foam pad design"

I believe that the Pro90Z and Brian's "AirPac"-era pads both had foam in the outer rolls and possibly knee rolls. I know for a fact that my two sets of Brian's pads from this era had deer hair shin areas. I believe that this was done in the roll areas to limit or eliminate pad settling, and therefore, pad shrinkage. I think that this little blurb in the ad copy referring to deer hair construction is only to distinguish the Pro90Z from the Helite line, which by that time was well known as a pad with foam construction.

39 minutes ago, Peanutbutterfly said:

Back to the OG question. My money is on Vaughn for the first commercially successful foam pad. But you can not discount Winlite/Aeroflex, they came before the Vaughn Legacy pad, but both brands fizzled pretty quick, so can that be considered successful?

Without a doubt, Vaughn's Legacy line was immensely successful and innovative while retaining the general look and feel of a typical goalie pad. I would consider the Vic / AeroFlex pads a success: They made it into the Show, they were around for a few years, they evolved, and the designer is a goalie gear legend that's still innovating.

[TheGoalNet]

5 minutes ago, dualshowman said:

I believe that the Pro90Z and Brian's "AirPac"-era pads both had foam in the outer rolls and possibly knee rolls. I know for a fact that my two sets of Brian's pads from this era had deer hair shin areas. I believe that this was done in the roll areas to limit or eliminate pad settling, and therefore, pad shrinkage. I think that this little blurb in the ad copy referring to deer hair construction is only to distinguish the Pro90Z from the Helite line, which by that time was well known as a pad with foam construction.

Now we are beyond my knowledge, haha

But I do agree, I don't think it's a 100% deer hair pad. If it was used in the shin only, that would still separate it from the Helite II and make the name change for the Helite 5 and dropping the deer hair make sense? 

[TheGoalNet]

1 hour ago, Peanutbutterfly said:

Back to the OG question. My money is on Vaughn for the first commercially successful foam pad. But you can not discount Winlite/Aeroflex, they came before the Vaughn Legacy pad, but both brands fizzled pretty quick, so can that be considered successful?

Yes, this is where it comes down a matter of opinion! Makes the topic fun

The staying power of Velocity vs the revolving door of Winlite, Aeroflex, Aeroflex by Tackla, Smith, Vic by Smith, Helite 1, DR Laser, and CCM Supra is why I personally give the nod to Velocity. Vaughn took the concept and made something that made sense for the mass market.

I would argue that no one is yet to do that with the 100% bindingless glove? It's been around for years, but Blockade died and Warrior does not sell as well as the other bigger brands. This style glove has 0 presence at pro as well.

To me the shape and the construction are seperate topics too? Foam stuffed pads caught on. Boxy shaped pads took a long time.

[coopaloop1234]

10 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

I would argue that no one is yet to do that with the 100% bindingless glove? It's been around for years, but Blockade died and Warrior does not sell as well as the other bigger brands. This style glove has 0 presence at pro as well.

Which is odd to me. A lot of manufacturers stressed the "extra coverage" that a bindingless blocker provided. I'm surprised it never caught on with the gloves aside from Warrior.

[TheGoalNet]

17 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Which is odd to me. A lot of manufacturers stressed the "extra coverage" that a bindingless blocker provided. I'm surprised it never caught on with the gloves aside from Warrior.

Agreed. This feels like something Brian's or Bauer would jump on board with.

[Wonder35]

Am I out to lunch in stating that BROWN pads were the first widely used foam pads, available to the public and in wide use by the Pro's?

[TitanG]

9 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

2.0...

Here are my thoughts, agree or disagree?

Hard rebounds: CCM Premier XLT

Fast sliding: Bauer Supreme 1S

Flat boot: CCM EFlex 1 popularized the discussion, Vaughn started the trend with V1.

Box style pad: Vaughn V1 popularized the discussion, but Winlite started the concept

Elastic Strapping: Brian's Sub Zero 1

Foam core pad: Heaton Helite II - Not the first, but the first commercially successful

Solid core pad - RBK Premier II

Composite Stick - Bauer Supreme NXG popularized the discussion, but TPS response started the concept

1 Piece glove - Reebok P3 popularized the discussion, but CCM blockade started the concept

Bindingless pads - Warrior by Smith

If we add mask tech, is the current style of mask attributable to Harrison? I think Tony Esposito was the first with a cage on his old school mask, but that's more akin to the old style mask rather than the new style. Could also throw in the helmet/cage combos since the original mask cages came from there.

[Puckstopper]

4 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

Yes, this is where it comes down a matter of opinion! Makes the topic fun

The staying power of Velocity vs the revolving door of Winlite, Aeroflex, Aeroflex by Tackla, Smith, Vic by Smith, Helite 1, DR Laser, and CCM Supra is why I personally give the nod to Velocity. Vaughn took the concept and made something that made sense for the mass market.

I was in high school/college when most of the pads we're bantering about were released.   I've personally owned Helite II's and Pro90z and can safely say that I regretted selling the II's to buy the 90z set, despite the fact that Pro90z's were my dream pad until I actually strapped them on.

Now, on to Velocity vs all other previous "box" pads:  People I  played with were aware of box pads like Vic and Aeroflex, but never bought them for one reason or another (availability, price, or just the fact that they "looked freaking weird").  Velocities on the other hand were light, sexy and revolutionary without being TOO revolutionary.  EVERYONE I knew wanted a pair and for a while there it seemed like if you weren't wearing Velo's you were wearing a clone from Simmons, Battram or someone else.  It is 100% fair to give the OG Velo line credit for pushing box style pads to the front of the discussion.

One humorous note:  As I thought back on it, Pete Smith has been involved in more pads that put performance ahead of appearance than any other designer I can think of.  I love the way my Warrior setups play, but I totally get why people struggle to get onboard with the look of the pads and gloves.  Maybe Pete deserves  a spot on the list for pioneering "function over form"?

[TheGoalNet]

14 hours ago, Wonder35 said:

Am I out to lunch in stating that BROWN pads were the first widely used foam pads, available to the public and in wide use by the Pro's?

I'd love to pin this down, but super complicated to solve at the moment, haha