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Keeps33 method?


alexkgoalingsen
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57 minutes ago, alexkgoalingsen said:

Im afraid that with the keeps33 method, that the glove will mold because the pads inside cant dry. Is this a reasonable concern? Will it mold?

Welcome to the forum. 

Not if you dry it, it won't :)  It is possible to dry the glove after, that's part of the method.  You can use fans, heat, dehumidifiers, etc.  Depending on where you live makes a difference in terms of humidity, dryness ,etc.  Where I live drying gear is a constant problem so I have to be quite proactive drying my gear playing 3 times per week.

I think generally speaking mold growth takes prolonged periods of time and if you are trying to break in a glove in 48 hours or so, it's fine.

Besides water, heat works for breaking in gloves, too.  Here's what I do with a hot/cold gel pack.  Heat it up, stuff it inside, work the glove vigorously at the break/crease, repeat, repeat, repeat.  After 3 or 4 times it's like butter

20210621_205202.jpg

20210621_205208.jpg

Edited by seagoal
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There is merit to using a bit of water, as in misting it a bit inside the glove before working it with heat. I’d say that the method @seagoal is going to be the way to avoid the use of water all together and is a pretty solid method. I mist my gloves with water and pop mine into my convection oven at 175 degrees. I also wet the inside of my glove before sessions if the glove still isn’t super soft. My Hoho glove (Heaton Helite Z clone) took forever to break in. I baked it five times, stored it with weights on top of it and after quite awhile, it FINALLY started to soften up! I thought I was going to have send it off to Factory Mad! Thankfully, it started to cooperate.

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13 hours ago, seagoal said:

Welcome to the forum. 

Not if you dry it, it won't :)  It is possible to dry the glove after, that's part of the method.  You can use fans, heat, dehumidifiers, etc.  Depending on where you live makes a difference in terms of humidity, dryness ,etc.  Where I live drying gear is a constant problem so I have to be quite proactive drying my gear playing 3 times per week.

I think generally speaking mold growth takes prolonged periods of time and if you are trying to break in a glove in 48 hours or so, it's fine.

Besides water, heat works for breaking in gloves, too.  Here's what I do with a hot/cold gel pack.  Heat it up, stuff it inside, work the glove vigorously at the break/crease, repeat, repeat, repeat.  After 3 or 4 times it's like butter

20210621_205202.jpg

20210621_205208.jpg

Thanks, I will try this

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Imagine having to break in a glove. #WarriorGang, #Hockey, #winning, #Cooprules

Jokes aside, I wouldn't worry about using the keeps method. I did it on my LT90 and it worked well.

Though a lot of gloves manufactured now a days are pretty easy to break in if they're not already done so. Unless it's a lefevre glove. I spent forever working my 590 in and it still never felt broken in.

 

Edited by coopaloop1234
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24 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Imagine having to break in a glove. #WarriorGang, #Hockey, #winning, #Cooprules

Jokes aside, I wouldn't worry about using the keeps method. I did it on my LT90 and it worked well.

Though a lot of gloves manufactured now a days are pretty easy to break in if they're not already done so. Unless it's a lefevre glove. I spent forever working my 590 in and it still never felt broken in.

 

Hey coop, you seem like a nice guy, so I’m going to sum this up in the nicest way possible. Warrior sucks, except for their sticks. Get some real gear please so we can like you more!!!🤝

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8 hours ago, bunnyman666 said:

There is merit to using a bit of water, as in misting it a bit inside the glove before working it with heat. I’d say that the method @seagoal is going to be the way to avoid the use of water all together and is a pretty solid method. I mist my gloves with water and pop mine into my convection oven at 175 degrees. I also wet the inside of my glove before sessions if the glove still isn’t super soft. My Hoho glove (Heaton Helite Z clone) took forever to break in. I baked it five times, stored it with weights on top of it and after quite awhile, it FINALLY started to soften up! I thought I was going to have send it off to Factory Mad! Thankfully, it started to cooperate.

Great post Bunny.

I've never used the full blown Keeps33 method not because I was worried about damage, but because I've found it unnecessary and can achieve the same end result without completely drenching a glove in water.

I'm glad you mentioned the oven...I do this too and forgot to mention that in my post. My go-to is 180 degrees for 6 minutes with the glove all open and unstrapped, take it out, strap it on my hand tightly, and then vigorously work the crease/break.  I think misting the inside and out with light water + heat (oven or hot gel pack) is optimal and the least invasive...Keeps33 is HIGHLY invasive with the amount of water.

It's interesting in almost every discussion of breaking a glove in, whether discussing heat and/or water, it always comes around to questions of damage or loss of protection. 

I think asking it this way is asking it the wrong way: will heat/water damage a glove and result in loss of protection?

I think asking it this way is asking it the correct way: is a broken in glove damaged and less protective than a brand new glove?  The answer is YES.

That's the whole point of breaking in a glove. What are you breaking?  Well, the padding and thus the protection, and the reason we prefer a damaged, less protective glove in this sense is so that we can use it properly.  We get caught up on damage and it's too easy to think of "damage" as a bad thing.  It's a good thing, we prefer "damaged" gloves over new, stiff gloves.

Edited by seagoal
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5 hours ago, seagoal said:

Great post Bunny.

I've never used the full blown Keeps33 method not because I was worried about damage, but because I've found it unnecessary and can achieve the same end result without completely drenching a glove in water.

I'm glad you mentioned the oven...I do this too and forgot to mention that in my post. My go-to is 180 degrees for 6 minutes with the glove all open and unstrapped, take it out, strap it on my hand tightly, and then vigorously work the crease/break.  I think misting the inside and out with light water + heat (oven or hot gel pack) is optimal and the least invasive...Keeps33 is HIGHLY invasive with the amount of water.

It's interesting in almost every discussion of breaking a glove in, whether discussing heat and/or water, it always comes around to questions of damage or loss of protection. 

I think asking it this way is asking it the wrong way: will heat/water damage a glove and result in loss of protection?

I think asking it this way is asking it the correct way: is a broken in glove damaged and less protective than a brand new glove?  The answer is YES.

That's the whole point of breaking in a glove. What are you breaking?  Well, the padding and thus the protection, and the reason we prefer a damaged, less protective glove in this sense is so that we can use it properly.  We get caught up on damage and it's too easy to think of "damage" as a bad thing.  It's a good thing, we prefer "damaged" gloves over new, stiff gloves.

Essentially, you are breaking the foams, plastics and Jenpro down enough to close it. Yes, the internals can be reworked to make them close better. 
 
Essentially, soaking it with boiling water is pretty damaging as the foams and felt can be damaged. Water itself isn’t the enemy, provided you air it out.  Sometimes those items can be compacted as the hot water can end up shrinking or otherwise causing premature break down. 170-185 F-ish is essentially the sweet spot. Too much above that is where thermal damage can occur. So in essence, yes- it’s damage, but not the type that can change chemical compounds. 

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24 minutes ago, bunnyman666 said:

Essentially, you are breaking the foams, plastics and Jenpro down enough to close it. Yes, the internals can be reworked to make them close better. 
 
Essentially, soaking it with boiling water is pretty damaging as the foams and felt can be damaged. Water itself isn’t the enemy, provided you air it out.  Sometimes those items can be compacted as the hot water can end up shrinking or otherwise causing premature break down. 170-185 F-ish is essentially the sweet spot. Too much above that is where thermal damage can occur. So in essence, yes- it’s damage, but not the type that can change chemical compounds. 

Yeah, I've heard of people setting the oven too high and ending up with a melted glove with loose plastics inside. 

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Just now, seagoal said:

Yeah, I've heard of people setting the oven too high and ending up with a melted glove with loose plastics inside. 

“Baking” any gear is a misnomer. I hate that term because it can be literally interpreted! I have had a few DMs on Instagram with pix of literally BAKED gloves! Wish I were kidding.

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Just to note you.

Jenpro itself is very soft material, doesn't need any "break in".

Felt is softish material and is not going to change to anything with watering. It is made of some sort of plastic I assume because it melts with too much heat (lighter, heat gun at hot setting, ...)

Plastics aren't gonna change to anything unless cracked or heated to melting degrees. At that point the jenpro is already dead.

One really quick way to help break in a new glove is to open all the lace knots and let in all the lace there is extra. Especially CCM gloves soften up a lot when you give a little more lace to where the T meets the boot of the break.

Then what happens when using different methods of breaking the glove in. I can't really tell as I've never bought a new glove to find out. Propably the most of it is that all the material get settled to each other, lacing is loosened where needs to (CCM mentioned above) and gets settled to the holes through materials.

Loss of protection is also not that straight conclusion of breaking in. As said the felt isn't really changing to anything with watering or working it in. You can check my refurbish projects and in most of them if not all the felt is the same as in new glove. That said ofcourse there is a change in felt too, it permeates with filth and salt from hands over time that makes the felt stiff and firm. But it softens up really well when dismantled and throughly washed.

Did this text make any sense? Great topic though and makes me wanna buy one new glove to find out. 🤑

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8 hours ago, ArdeFIN said:

Just to note you.

Jenpro itself is very soft material, doesn't need any "break in".

Felt is softish material and is not going to change to anything with watering. It is made of some sort of plastic I assume because it melts with too much heat (lighter, heat gun at hot setting, ...)

Plastics aren't gonna change to anything unless cracked or heated to melting degrees. At that point the jenpro is already dead.

One really quick way to help break in a new glove is to open all the lace knots and let in all the lace there is extra. Especially CCM gloves soften up a lot when you give a little more lace to where the T meets the boot of the break.

Then what happens when using different methods of breaking the glove in. I can't really tell as I've never bought a new glove to find out. Propably the most of it is that all the material get settled to each other, lacing is loosened where needs to (CCM mentioned above) and gets settled to the holes through materials.

Loss of protection is also not that straight conclusion of breaking in. As said the felt isn't really changing to anything with watering or working it in. You can check my refurbish projects and in most of them if not all the felt is the same as in new glove. That said ofcourse there is a change in felt too, it permeates with filth and salt from hands over time that makes the felt stiff and firm. But it softens up really well when dismantled and throughly washed.

Did this text make any sense? Great topic though and makes me wanna buy one new glove to find out. 🤑

You're saying water doesn't change anything,  yet, the water method does work.  Granted,  it uses hot water and not cold.

Are you saying that it's only the heat that changes/breaks-in the glove?

The method surely works, so the question is why?

I was hoping you'd chime in here.  As soon as I read this topic and thought about it you were the first person who popped into my mind, as our resident gear surgeon on the forum.

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1 hour ago, seagoal said:

You're saying water doesn't change anything,  yet, the water method does work.  Granted,  it uses hot water and not cold.

Are you saying that it's only the heat that changes/breaks-in the glove?

The method surely works, so the question is why?

I was hoping you'd chime in here.  As soon as I read this topic and thought about it you were the first person who popped into my mind, as our resident gear surgeon on the forum.

As said I cannot explain the reasons in this because I've never started from a new glove. I only assume that it has a lot to do with water "lubricating" the lacing and other materials so that they can adjust to each other better than without water. Many of us have done the break in by watching TV and manipulate the glove for a long time, lots of good movies. The water involved makes the same thing a lot faster with less work.

As said a friend of mine does the break in trick to CCM gloves by just letting all the possible amount of extra lace to the break area of the glove in perimeter and inner lacing. (Extra lace means all there is that you can let in and still make the knot to hold the end on place.) And he says that it changes the glove completely and I'm in no doubt about it. Actually from my glove refurbishments I remember a few occasions where I tightened the laces too much and letting them out somewhat made things a lot more soft and flexible.

Just to say as I have two Warriors on my table at the moment, Warriors perimeter lacing is known to be tight and yet the gloves are pretty flexible. So it's not only the lacing but the whole structure too.

Edit: Now that I think of it, the lace itself also does stretch a little, and that might be one thing involved here. Watering the lace will definitely help the lace to stretch out. And it isn't that much you need to open soften up the glove.

Another thing that I might be able to find an answer is that will the Jenpro shrink at all with water? I've been having this feeling a few times after dismantling and washing gloves. There has been some times when the fabrics must've been shrunk a little because the original plastics seem way too big to fit in. That is something for me to look up the next time. Measure before and after washing. If this happens it might do the trick the other way around, wetting the glove with hot water broadens the fabric just that much.

Edited by ArdeFIN
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11 minutes ago, ArdeFIN said:

 

Another thing that I might be able to find an answer is that will the Jenpro shrink at all with water? I've been having this feeling a few times after dismantling and washing gloves. There has been some times when the fabrics must've been shrunk a little because the original plastics seem way too big to fit in. That is something for me to look up the next time. Measure before and after washing. If this happens it might do the trick the other way around, wetting the glove with hot water broadens the fabric just that much.

Jenpro uses a microfibre backing, so it’s possible that shrinkage could occur.

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23 hours ago, ArdeFIN said:

As said a friend of mine does the break in trick to CCM gloves by just letting all the possible amount of extra lace to the break area of the glove in perimeter and inner lacing. (Extra lace means all there is that you can let in and still make the knot to hold the end on place.) And he says that it changes the glove completely and I'm in no doubt about it. Actually from my glove refurbishments I remember a few occasions where I tightened the laces too much and letting them out somewhat made things a lot more soft and flexible.

Can you explain this CCM Break-in method a little more? With pics, if possible? Thank you.

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Lets give it a try with one of the few Eflex3 pics I have. Areas that should be as loose as possible are inside the green circles.

The perimeter lace in CCM is usually one piece from cuff to cuff. So open up both end knots and re-tie them as close to the end of the lace as possible. Then start to pull the lace towards the break areas, the boot of the T is the main target. Heel of the break is secondary if you have a lot of extra to use. Ofcourse if you have the genuine lace you can cut the T off and tie the lace ends a few loops away. And then replace the opened loops with a new lace and leave it a bit more loose. You can try the effect while doing thisand if it doesn't work the way you want it the re-tighten things back.

The lace running in the middle of the palm can also help a little here and most extra lace would benefit in the heel area. The fingers and thumb areas are against plastic and won't have a lot of use for extra lace.

If you have a possibility to visit a stire stocking catchers try them out and compare how tight the lacing is on them. Warrior and CCM gloves have laces really like a reeds on a guitar.

Kiristelykuva.jpg

Edited by ArdeFIN
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Here's a good example of a minimal change in lacing that results a very noticeable change on the behavior and not only being softer but also the break area works a lot better.

First it is laced as usual to the boot of the T and bottom of the pocket. The break line is actually under the right knot and a little towards right from that point. This setup made the break to twist ie. feel really weird to close the glove and being a bit stiff altogether.

IMG_20210831_202456_8x6.jpg.8137385a94b5dd425abeb0d0c0d6f71f.jpg

Then I moved the knots one step towards right (in the picture) and what a difference. Break line folds really nicely, is soft and feels natural. Here the lacing is loose but I actually did tighten it to test the effect and with overly tightening I could make it tight to operate the glove.

The T is originally "offset" to this position if I remember it right from the beginning of this project. (the whole project can be found under 'mods' - 'Total One NXG')

IMG_20210831_202735_8x6.jpg.bf5e1ad2c5f477c1fc25b091601f6baa.jpg

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