New skates, time to panic?

[xmikex32]

Hey guys,

So I recently picked up a pair of CCM AS3 to replace my CCM U+ pros that I got in 2008. Last night was the first time i skated in them and not sure if I'm jumping the gun but they felt WAY different and I was having real issues moving around. This was my first skate in 2 months and first time in the skates so I'm hopefully chalking it up to a mixture of variables.

1. The blades are 3mm vs my old skate which are 4mm. I liked the ease of shuffle but felt like I had no bite, blades were sharpened to 3/8. I felt like I had no power in my pushes and was getting constant slip out. This could be my technique but I was able to push easily in my older skates. I know they make 4mm blades that fit in 3mm holders, would this make the skates feel like my older ones?

2. Another issue I found was when I would go to drop down into my BF I would start to drop and it felt like i was catching my edges again halfway down. IDK if it was because my older skates ankle support was shorter and the boot was broken in more which gave me more flexibility. How I got around the issue was having a wider BF, this seemed to let me drop straight down without catching my edges again. A wider BF isn't the worst but i didn't feel as mobile and I don't have the widest BF so i felt it in my hips a lot like I kept stretching/pulling something when i would drop. I also had an issue of when someone was coming for a shot from the boards i would get ready to drop down one leg to push across to follow the player cutting across the crease and I would get the same feeling that my edge was getting caught in the ice while pushing across. It felt like there was resistance pushing from post to post.

3. I'm sure the skate height also played a role but trying to turn and get up from my BF i felt really unstable and almost tripped a couple times. It felt like i was getting up too early and had to catch the edge while i was getting up.

I do like the fit and the lightness of the skate but if i cant move around and get good pushes ill have to send them back and start my search all over again. I know its hard to make judgements off of one skate i just kind of felt let down that there was such a bug transition from one skate to another. I don't get much time to go skate so unforntuely my "testing" time only occurs during games. 

any suggestion or insight would be appreciated. 

[coopaloop1234]

2 hours ago, xmikex32 said:

Hey guys,

So I recently picked up a pair of CCM AS3 to replace my CCM U+ pros that I got in 2008. Last night was the first time i skated in them and not sure if I'm jumping the gun but they felt WAY different and I was having real issues moving around. This was my first skate in 2 months and first time in the skates so I'm hopefully chalking it up to a mixture of variables.

You're jumping the gun. 

Let's go over the hurdle that you faced with that skate:

- Hadn't skated in two months
- New skates (always an awkward first skate)
- Change in steel width
- Change in boot stiffness
- Removal of a cowling
- Taller holders

Honestly, a lot of the issues you were facing are the benefits of the newer skates. The problem is that you're skating in them like you used to skate in your old ones. 

There's going to be an adjustment period where you get accustomed to your skates, but nothing you've listed here tell me that the skates aren't for you. I think you were just expecting an immediate transition. 

 

[xmikex32]

You're right i just didn't expect them to feel so different. Just need to get on them more and move around a lot. Do you know or think if going to 4mm again would make it feel more like my older skates as far as bite and pushing power? 

[Puckstopper]

1.  So I'm sure you know, 3/8" is a pretty deep hollow.   I'm surprised you aren't actually tripping over yourself going that deep on a boot that's so much stiffer than your U+ boot, even with the drop to 3mm steel.   Regardless, I'd double check the sharpening before I did anything else.   Head to your sharpener, describe your issue and ask them to verify that the edges are level.   I wouldn't be surprised if you find out the inner edge is just a little higher toward the boot than the outer edge, causing you to have to reach for that edge. Then, if they are level give yourself a few hours on the ice.   If you still hate the feeling, it's time to invest money. 

2.  Issues like this are why I now run a 5/8" hollow and profile my blades.   More on profiling in your 3rd point, as it's the main solution to that issue, whereas it's an added benefit here.  

3.  You nailed part of the issue.   Getting used to the taller "modern" holders comes with an adjustment period.  As mentioned in point 1, several hours is reasonable to get used to them.  But profiling can really help as well.  Details below:

You're also fighting the fact that you likely have more steel touching the ice now than you did on your old skates.   Even the best skate sharpeners in the world will change the profile of a blade over time, generally rounding the blade by removing more steel from the heel and toe of the skate.   An average sharpener will make this process worse, and a hack can ruin a profile in just a few sharpenings.  CCM skates come out of the box with a single radius 30' profile.  Rather than me spelling it out, go here to learn more about profiling, but suffice it to say 30' is really flat.  Most forward skates are on a 9' profile, and your old skates are probably somewhere lower than 30' but not as rounded out as a forward skate.   I would be willing to bet that the extra steel under your toe is what was causing the unnatural movements.   Again, you could just adapt, but having the profile changed is also an option.   Personally I use the 15/20/28 Goalie option from NoIcingSports (the site I linked earlier).   That means the toe of my skate is a 15' radius for easy pivots while moving and smooth drops to my butterfly, while the middle is 20' and the rear is a conventional (for Bauer anyway) 28' radius to allow for powerful pushes from my heels.   Another popular option is Goalie SAM which is a 10/27' dual radius with a 50mm flat spot between the two.   I didn't like it, but lots do.   Any place with a Blademaster machine and the right jig can do Goalie SAM, where I have to mail my blades to NoIcing. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Puckstopper

[coopaloop1234]

14 minutes ago, xmikex32 said:

You're right i just didn't expect them to feel so different. Just need to get on them more and move around a lot. Do you know or think if going to 4mm again would make it feel more like my older skates as far as bite and pushing power? 

Couldn't tell ya, I've pretty much only been in 4mm. 

 

[xmikex32]

13 minutes ago, Puckstopper said:

1.  So I'm sure you know, 3/8" is a pretty deep hollow.   I'm surprised you aren't actually tripping over yourself going that deep on a boot that's so much stiffer than your U+ boot, even with the drop to 3mm steel.   Regardless, I'd double check the sharpening before I did anything else.   Head to your sharpener, describe your issue and ask them to verify that the edges are level.   I wouldn't be surprised if you find out the inner edge is just a little higher toward the boot than the outer edge, causing you to have to reach for that edge. Then, if they are level give yourself a few hours on the ice.   If you still hate the feeling, it's time to invest money. 

2.  Issues like this are why I now run a 5/8" hollow and profile my blades.   More on profiling in your 3rd point, as it's the main solution to that issue, whereas it's an added benefit here.  

3.  You nailed part of the issue.   Getting used to the taller "modern" holders comes with an adjustment period.  As mentioned in point 1, several hours is reasonable to get used to them.  But profiling can really help as well.  Details below:

You're also fighting the fact that you likely have more steel touching the ice now than you did on your old skates.   Even the best skate sharpeners in the world will change the profile of a blade over time, generally rounding the blade by removing more steel from the heel and toe of the skate.   An average sharpener will make this process worse, and a hack can ruin a profile in just a few sharpenings.  CCM skates come out of the box with a single radius 30' profile.  Rather than me spelling it out, go here to learn more about profiling, but suffice it to say 30' is really flat.  Most forward skates are on a 9' profile, and your old skates are probably somewhere lower than 30' but not as rounded out as a forward skate.   I would be willing to bet that the extra steel under your toe is what was causing the unnatural movements.   Again, you could just adapt, but having the profile changed is also an option.   Personally I use the 15/20/28 Goalie option from NoIcingSports (the site I linked earlier).   That means the toe of my skate is a 15' radius for easy pivots while moving and smooth drops to my butterfly, while the middle is 20' and the rear is a conventional (for Bauer anyway) 28' radius to allow for powerful pushes from my heels.   Another popular option is Goalie SAM which is a 10/27' dual radius with a 50mm flat spot between the two.   I didn't like it, but lots do.   Any place with a Blademaster machine and the right jig can do Goalie SAM, where I have to mail my blades to NoIcing. 

I was looking into profiling before the new skates and this might push me into that direction. The new skates definitely feel more flat and putting me upright vs. my older skates which seems to let me lean forward slightly. I have step steel on my U+'s that was added not that long ago and are pretty tall, but you are probably right that they aren't the same radius. It felt like i was on skis or really long blade i couldn't turn on my toes, if that makes sense. I would try to pivot and it felt like my front toe was catching on the ice. I will look into profiling only downside is no one around me that I'm aware of does it so i would need to send them out every couples months to get them rechecked. 

your profile has more blade on the front vs the SAM correct 15 vs. 10? I tend to push more with my toes so would going with 15 net more blade contact? I know profiling is a topic in its own with tons of information out there. I feel like having more of a forward lean would net be a better outcome since i could pivot more on the balls of my feet. 

[Puckstopper]

4 minutes ago, xmikex32 said:

I was looking into profiling before the new skates and this might push me into that direction. The new skates definitely feel more flat and putting me upright vs. my older skates which seems to let me lean forward slightly. I have step steel on my U+'s that was added not that long ago and are pretty tall, but you are probably right that they aren't the same radius. It felt like i was on skis or really long blade i couldn't turn on my toes, if that makes sense. I would try to pivot and it felt like my front toe was catching on the ice. I will look into profiling only downside is no one around me that I'm aware of does it so i would need to send them out every couples months to get them rechecked. 

your profile has more blade on the front vs the SAM correct 15 vs. 10? I tend to push more with my toes so would going with 15 net more blade contact? I know profiling is a topic in its own with tons of information out there. I feel like having more of a forward lean would net be a better outcome since i could pivot more on the balls of my feet. 

So profiling can fix both the skating and pitch issues for you.  Modern CCM skates do sit flatter than Bauer or True 2 piece skates, so work with your profiler to add pitch to whatever radius you settle on.  The triple does have more blade on the ice at the toe than the SAM and that's the biggest reason I like it better.   I'm a toe pusher as well and struggled with SAM.  

Kind of funny, I ended up going the opposite direction you did.  My Trues came with unprofiled 4mm steel after being on 3mm Bauer steel for years.   I played one game in them and hated them so much I had Vertexx holders and 3mm steel put right back on them.   Same issues though, tripping, unable to drop smoothly, etc...   Once I got back on a profiled blade, the new skates were magic!   I'm a huge believer in steel being one of the most important but least appreciated part of our gear. 

[Novasteel31]

Funny enough I almost bought a pair of these skates today at my Local hockey shop, they had them on for $499 which I thought was a good price but when I put them on they did not feel great at all, very tight compared to my Bauer Reactor 6000's. I did try on a pair of 3s Pro's as well and they felt better/ more natural. Its been a while since I was in a CCM/Reebok skate so not sure if they have changed to the shape of there boots but I always thought they ran wider then Bauer's but things must have changed over the years as I had to try on a EE for CCM and a D was good in the Bauers.

I am in the same dilemma as you right now as my steel on my skates and the cowling are starting to go and I am debating whether I should just replace my cowling or just bite the bullet and buy a new pair and make the adjustment.

[Puckstopper]

1 hour ago, Novasteel31 said:

I am in the same dilemma as you right now as my steel on my skates and the cowling are starting to go and I am debating whether I should just replace my cowling or just bite the bullet and buy a new pair and make the adjustment.

Do it now.  It's easier to adjust while you're young (er?).  Plus if you find you absolutely CAN'T make the switch, better to do it while you can stock up on serviceable replacement materials.  Waiting another 2-3 years will mean those parts are impossible to find instead of merely difficult.  

[Novasteel31]

1 hour ago, Puckstopper said:

Do it now.  It's easier to adjust while you're young (er?).  Plus if you find you absolutely CAN'T make the switch, better to do it while you can stock up on serviceable replacement materials.  Waiting another 2-3 years will mean those parts are impossible to find instead of merely difficult.  

Well I don't know if 37 is young anymore but I get what you are trying to say lol. Yes I've noticed that not purchasing equipment for roughly 10 years has put me a step behind technologically

[creasecollector]

Definitely jumping a little bit here. 

A few years ago I went from Bauer 3000's to stiff True/VH skates. My first session with them I thought I had made a terrible mistake.

However, once I made these adjustment, I was good to go:

- I re-baked them as they were new-to-me skates.

- Had to tweak the way I sharpened my skates my moving to a sharper (for me), but overall neutral cut. I currently rock a 5/8 cut.

- Laced the skates differently. Had to skip the top eyelet to give myself the forward ankle flex I needed to move in these stiff skates.

[Novasteel31]

6 minutes ago, creasecollector said:

Definitely jumping a little bit here. 

A few years ago I went from Bauer 3000's to stiff True/VH skates. My first session with them I thought I had made a terrible mistake.

However, once I made these adjustment, I was good to go:

- I re-baked them as they were new-to-me skates.

- Had to tweak the way I sharpened my skates my moving to a sharper (for me), but overall neutral cut. I currently rock a 5/8 cut.

- Laced the skates differently. Had to skip the top eyelet to give myself the forward ankle flex I needed to move in these stiff skates.

That seems to make sense. Did you go to a 3mm steel or stick with the 4mm? I also currently rock a 1/2" cut on my blades and I'm wondering if that will be to sharp for a 3mm steel based on what I have been reading. Also I'm thinking about the Bauer 3s pro's, if anyone knows can i get a 4mm steel on those?

[Hockey34]

1 hour ago, Novasteel31 said:

That seems to make sense. Did you go to a 3mm steel or stick with the 4mm? I also currently rock a 1/2" cut on my blades and I'm wondering if that will be too sharp for a 3mm steel based on what I have been reading. Also I'm thinking about the Bauer 3s pro's, if anyone knows can i get a 4mm steel on those?

Only 3mm will fit in the Bauer vertexx holder. However there is the flare blade steel https://flareskateblade.com/  Which is 3mm at the holder that widens to a 4.5mm blade. Or you could always change the holder. 

[ThatCarGuy]

1 hour ago, Hockey34 said:

Only 3mm will fit in the Bauer vertexx holder. However there is the flare blade steel https://flareskateblade.com/  Which is 3mm at the holder that widens to a 4.5mm blade. Or you could always change the holder. 

Flare blades can only be sharpened on a hand sharpener last I checked. No sparx no prosharp.
 

However, Step does make 4mm fat steel for the vertex edge holder it’s just unbelievably hard to find. Not quite as hard as the 3mm steel but certainly not easy

[xmikex32]

Think im going to pick up some 4mm steel and get it profiled and see how that goes. not sold on the 3mm, i had them the sharpest they could get and felt like i had no bite like i did with my 4mm.

 

@Novasteel31 for some reason IF you do decide to go with ccms check out ccms clearance page depending on your size you can get some top skates for cheap. I wear smaller skates(8) and picked up the AS3 for $340

[Puckstopper]

11 hours ago, ThatCarGuy said:

Flare blades can only be sharpened on a hand sharpener last I checked. No sparx no prosharp.
 

This is correct for Sparx at least, because they don't offer rings shallow enough to do Flare steel.  I'd only done one person's set of Flare blades by the time I left my job at a hockey store and they were tricky to make sure I had the edges level.  They always took extra time, both to redo the hollow on the wheel and then to dial in the edges, especially with our beat to hell square.  We had a manager who never liked to redo the wheel and slapped a 5/8" hollow on the Flares and totally ruined that customer's day.  It took forever to get the blades back to the 1 1/4" that the customer preferred and took more steel than either he or I would have preferred.  On the bright side, the guy who used them was really knowledgeable and in tune with his gear, and spoke very highly of the performance he got from them.  

tldr: I wouldn't spend the money on Flare blades unless you really trust your sharpener.  

Edited April 13, 2023 by Puckstopper

[ThatCarGuy]

Highly recommend you get off using 3/8 asap. It uses your shop’s wheels super quick, chews up the ice for the next guy, and makes shuffling near impossible. Since we use our prosharp for both sharpening and profiles at our store I started running a 5/8 Z M on a goalie sam profile for my 3mm steel. Absolutely love it. Bites like 7/16 in butterfly but shuffles like 5/8. I’ll add my own picture later today but there’s a placeholder 

Edited April 13, 2023 by ThatCarGuy

[Novasteel31]

3 hours ago, xmikex32 said:

Think im going to pick up some 4mm steel and get it profiled and see how that goes. not sold on the 3mm, i had them the sharpest they could get and felt like i had no bite like i did with my 4mm.

 

@Novasteel31 for some reason IF you do decide to go with ccms check out ccms clearance page depending on your size you can get some top skates for cheap. I wear smaller skates(8) and picked up the AS3 for $340

Yes I did see that however I went to try on the skates yesterday and I just can't do a CCM boot the Bauer's felt much better. However I am interested in seeing if I can find the Grad peek speeds to try on.

[Novasteel31]

Just now, Novasteel31 said:

Yes I did see that however I went to try on the skates yesterday and I just can't do a CCM boot the Bauer's felt much better. However I am interested in seeing if I can find the Grad peek speeds to try on.

Graf*

[mr_shifty1982]

I have these skates, custom and I love them. 

Point of advice on 3mm blade, go 1/2 inch at least. 

I requested 4mm blade, and you will feel more comfortable with it most likely. They put a black steel 4mm blade for me. I was the first to have it in the market few years back. Maybe they provide regular steel now. 

Good luck. 

[xmikex32]

4 minutes ago, mr_shifty1982 said:

I have these skates, custom and I love them. 

Point of advice on 3mm blade, go 1/2 inch at least. 

I requested 4mm blade, and you will feel more comfortable with it most likely. They put a black steel 4mm blade for me. I was the first to have it in the market few years back. Maybe they provide regular steel now. 

Good luck. 

Ya I'm going to order some step 4mm blades and see if i like them more. anyone know the stock radius of step blades? I've tried googling it and can only find 10 and i think that's for player blades. The skates themselves were comfy a little stiff and not broken in but i was able to play the whole game and didn't have any arch discomfort or anything like that 

[ThatCarGuy]

9 minutes ago, xmikex32 said:

Ya I'm going to order some step 4mm blades and see if i like them more. anyone know the stock radius of step blades? I've tried googling it and can only find 10 and i think that's for player blades. The skates themselves were comfy a little stiff and not broken in but i was able to play the whole game and didn't have any arch discomfort or anything like that 

It’s either 30 or 28 I believe 

[Hockey34]

14 minutes ago, xmikex32 said:

Ya I'm going to order some step 4mm blades and see if i like them more. anyone know the stock radius of step blades? I've tried googling it and can only find 10 and i think that's for player blades. The skates themselves were comfy a little stiff and not broken in but i was able to play the whole game and didn't have any arch discomfort or anything like that 

I think it’s a 30

[creasecollector]

On 4/12/2023 at 8:37 PM, Novasteel31 said:

That seems to make sense. Did you go to a 3mm steel or stick with the 4mm? I also currently rock a 1/2" cut on my blades and I'm wondering if that will be to sharp for a 3mm steel based on what I have been reading. Also I'm thinking about the Bauer 3s pro's, if anyone knows can i get a 4mm steel on those?

I went from a 4mm blade to another 4mm blade so it was fine, although the new blade was a StepSteel, which had the added height to get used to which wasn't an issue for me. 

They say when you switch from a 4mm to 3mm, usually you'll need to get a new skate cut hollow too in order to adjust with your new blades/skates. 

[xmikex32]

After a couple skates they are starting to feel better and better. I don't feel stuck anymore and can move around a lot better. I am still having a couple issues that i blame mostly on my poor technique. I don't get the same bite and push with the 3mm blades. I am able to shuffle a lot better but when i push in my BF i cant seem to dig in and just slide/skid along the ice with my blade, I'm blaming my technique.  I also noticed  that the small rubber texture piece near the toe seems to drag on the ice and slows me down. I'm guessing I'm pushing with my leg too vertical and need to make my leg more horizontal to plant my foot and get a good push. When I do push and slide i feel the rubber piece dragging on the lead foot too. I also took some advice and didn't lace the skate up to the top eyelet this mimicked where my old skate ended. I was able to get more mobility and flex out of the boot this way.