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Punisher Goalie

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Hello all:

I am new to this forum - long time lurker, but this sub forum in particular has made me want to start posting. I'm planning to post my videos here in the hopes that anyone will be willing to give me some feedback and advice!

A little about me: I'm 35 years old and have played ice hockey as a forward/defenseman since a young age. Was OK in high school, didn't play in college, started playing men's league after 10 years of being off the ice entirely. After several years of that, my interest started to wane as my skills leveled out. This year I decided to renew my love of this game by trying to play in net.

My first time on the ice in goalie gear was in February and I immediately fell in love. Nothing fit correctly and I'm sure I looked like a moron out there, but it was the best time I've had on ice in a long time. It took me a while to acquire well-fitting gear, but I started playing regularly in April 2017. Haven't had any instruction yet, but I would like to. I watch any/all goalie-related videos on YouTube trying to learn. In my men's league team (joined up with a D4 team full time) I am starting to get my legs under me and had a solid summer season, including a championship win!

So I'm taking every opportunity to skate at pickup or stick-n-pucks I can find and I try to film every session to learn as much as I can.

Here's my first post for this forum: pickup session, mostly older guys, but a pace that is representative of my men's league team. I would love to hear ANY feedback anyone has regarding form, position, etc. Thanks very much in advance! I will keep posting here after each session. 

In case anyone is interested, my gear for this session: 

Mask: Sportmask Mage RS

Leg Pads: CCM E Flex III

Glove: CCM Premier

Blocker: Reebok XLT

C/A: Vaughn V7 XF Pro Carbon

Pants: Bauer Supreme 1S

Skates: CCM Tacks (with Step Xtreme)

Stick: CCM Pro Stock (Holtby)

 

Edited by Punisher Goalie

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Tip #1, imo you will get better results from having your camera mounted on the glass behind the net.  Much easier to see how the plays develop and your positioning/tracking/reading of the puck and play.

Good on you to pick up a new position.  I too started in my late 30s after being a skater for 10 years or so.  I still skate at shinny/pick up but in goal was where I always wanted to be.

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Not gonna lie, I didn't see a goalie who looks like he just started playing 5-6 months ago.  Yes, there are some tendencies that show you're new to the position but seriously great job.  What camera mount did you use?

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3 hours ago, Hockey School Dropout said:

Tip #1, imo you will get better results from having your camera mounted on the glass behind the net.  Much easier to see how the plays develop and your positioning/tracking/reading of the puck and play.

Good on you to pick up a new position.  I too started in my late 30s after being a skater for 10 years or so.  I still skate at shinny/pick up but in goal was where I always wanted to be.

Welcome to the action video forum! I 2nd that you do get better feedback from the camera being mounted on the glass behind the net. Personally I have in my minds eye how a play happened and how I wasn't able to come up with a save and then watching the video from behind the net point of view gives me the full view of what happened, where I made a mistake and how I can correct it. I wouldn't have guessed that you have recently picked up goaltending you look great. You skate well and seem to have a good feel for goaltending. I guess one thing I noticed was that sometimes when the shooter was coming in for a shot(no other option for him) that your feet weren't always set and sometimes were still in motion. I have been watching NHL guys training videos and the one thing I noticed is that their feet are always set awaiting the shot. 

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4 hours ago, Hockey School Dropout said:

Tip #1, imo you will get better results from having your camera mounted on the glass behind the net.  Much easier to see how the plays develop and your positioning/tracking/reading of the puck and play.

Good on you to pick up a new position.  I too started in my late 30s after being a skater for 10 years or so.  I still skate at shinny/pick up but in goal was where I always wanted to be.

Thank you - yes its definitely a whole new way to experience the game. Wish I had tried long ago!

2 hours ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

Not gonna lie, I didn't see a goalie who looks like he just started playing 5-6 months ago.  Yes, there are some tendencies that show you're new to the position but seriously great job.  What camera mount did you use?

Thanks I really appreciate it. Luckily I have the benefit of a lot of years of skating experience and decent conditioning to help me. Still really tough to figure out how to execute the movements and figure out positioning. Been watching all of the videos here and anything I can find on YouTube to study.

My camera mount is one I built (I use that term loosely) myself, modeled after the PuckEye mount. I will post a few pics and a description shortly. Pretty easy to make with Home Depot parts and I really dig the angle with the GoPro Superview.

16 minutes ago, Imperative said:

Welcome to the action video forum! I 2nd that you do get better feedback from the camera being mounted on the glass behind the net. Personally I have in my minds eye how a play happened and how I wasn't able to come up with a save and then watching the video from behind the net point of view gives me the full view of what happened, where I made a mistake and how I can correct it. I wouldn't have guessed that you have recently picked up goaltending you look great. You skate well and seem to have a good feel for goaltending. I guess one thing I noticed was that sometimes when the shooter was coming in for a shot(no other option for him) that your feet weren't always set and sometimes were still in motion. I have been watching NHL guys training videos and the one thing I noticed is that their feet are always set awaiting the shot. 

Thank you - yes you're right, having the camera up on the glass gives a much better perspective of the play. In my league games, I use the suction cup on the outside of the glass (nothing inside the glass is permitted) and just leave it up in one spot so at best I get two periods of action. For these pickup sessions, we switch nets halfway through, so I use my in-net mount and I can swap it when we switch.

Thanks for the note on setting the feet. I have heard that concept mentioned in some YouTube videos but how do you know when to set your feet? Is it just a matter of feeling out when the player is committed to the shot? Now that you point this out I can see exactly what you mean - I'm still drifting back into the net when the player shoots.

Really helpful thank you!

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3 hours ago, Punisher Goalie said:

Thank you - yes its definitely a whole new way to experience the game. Wish I had tried long ago!

Thanks I really appreciate it. Luckily I have the benefit of a lot of years of skating experience and decent conditioning to help me. Still really tough to figure out how to execute the movements and figure out positioning. Been watching all of the videos here and anything I can find on YouTube to study.

My camera mount is one I built (I use that term loosely) myself, modeled after the PuckEye mount. I will post a few pics and a description shortly. Pretty easy to make with Home Depot parts and I really dig the angle with the GoPro Superview.

Thank you - yes you're right, having the camera up on the glass gives a much better perspective of the play. In my league games, I use the suction cup on the outside of the glass (nothing inside the glass is permitted) and just leave it up in one spot so at best I get two periods of action. For these pickup sessions, we switch nets halfway through, so I use my in-net mount and I can swap it when we switch.

Thanks for the note on setting the feet. I have heard that concept mentioned in some YouTube videos but how do you know when to set your feet? Is it just a matter of feeling out when the player is committed to the shot? Now that you point this out I can see exactly what you mean - I'm still drifting back into the net when the player shoots.

Really helpful thank you!

I tried to find an training video to explain it better than I can but I couldn't, haha. Basically being set and square before the shooter releases the shot instead of "drifting" on your skates moving yourself off angle and making it more difficult to make the save. 

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12 hours ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

Not gonna lie, I didn't see a goalie who looks like he just started playing 5-6 months ago.  Yes, there are some tendencies that show you're new to the position but seriously great job.  What camera mount did you use?

 

Pics of my mount are below. I'm running a GoPro Hero5 Black, but of course you could make this the same way for any GoPro.

The plastic case is a $15 dive case found on Amazon. It allows stop/start/power and viewfinder viewing while in the case, but its fully enclosed for diving so the sound is really bad, if you care about that. I will probably dremel out the back to improve sound quality. 

I wanted as few breakable parts as possible, so the straps are just inexpensive Velcro cable ties (they wrap over themselves) sandwiched between two 4" mending plates. I put some heavy-duty mounting tape between them, just for good measure. The blue adapter is just a 1/4" standard tripod adapter and the black piece is just an extender so I can ensure I get the right angle. Both pieces are aluminum with aluminum screws. Plastic might hold up but I wanted the strongest unit I could reasonably make with available parts.

It can be mounted two ways (or more I suppose) - on the center bar a few feet off the ice gives a really cool angle like in my video above. I run one of the straps all the way back through the netting to keep it from slipping down. I also plan to add some adhesive foam to the back to give it some friction for nets where there is no padding on the center bar. In this configuration, the GoPro is meant to hang upside down (it auto-corrects). 

You can also use this by just hanging it upside down from the top netting to give a little more of a top-down view. 

If anyone is looking to build one, let me know, I'd be happy to share more detailed instructions!

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Posting a new video from a pickup session this week.

I was really trying hard to work on @Imperative suggestion about setting my feet before the shot. As much as I was concentrating on this, I can see from the footage that I am still drifting backwards. This is going to be a tough one to implement!

I made several gear changes (as you will see I am likely to do...):

Mask: Sportmask Mage RS (same)

Chest/Arms: Vaughn V7 XF Pro Carbon (same)

Glove/Blocker: Warrior Ritual G3 - this is usually my primary set but the glove was sidelined while I was repairing the pocket with skate lace. Last video was using my "backup" set. The Warriors feel so much lighter and the glove closes way easier. Liking the skate lace too, mostly for style, can't really detect any performance differences.

Leg Pads: CCM E Flex III (same, but will likely be trying my original set of Ritual GT Pros at the next ice time. The E Flexs are nice and the speed skin slides well, but they are more than 1 lb heavier on each pad and I'm starting to feel it, plus for some reason the thigh rises really interfere with each other. Not saying these are gone forever, but going to try the Warriors for comparison purposes at least).

Pants: CCM Premier Pro - "Big" change here, pun intended. Was in size Small Bauer pants before. This is the correct size if I was going for a tapered pant meant to hug my waist (I'm a 29" waist) but I prefer to tuck my C/A and last session was terrible with the C/A pushing up all the time. These are size Large and the C/A fits inside great. I may look a little weird because of how bulky the pants are but I think it makes me look bigger and I feel waaaaay more comfortable with the "barrel" feeling. Will be trying to set these up to attach directly to the C/A so I can ditch the suspenders though.

Stick: Bauer Supreme 1S - went back to this because its so much lighter and I am just more used to it. Cut an inch off the handle and went with a Carey Price knob. Will prob slap the Tacki-Mac grip on it now that I am confident I will be sticking with it.

Skates: CCM Tacks (same)

I know this angle doesn't let you see the play much (in the future I will try to get the behind the glass or at least hang it on the top bar). Please let me know if you see anything I can work on thanks!

 

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Looked good:

My one comment is more of a tip:

On the goal at 2:47, it’s a right handed shooter coming down his off-wing. I don’t know why (other than the fact it seems to work a lot), but I see a lot of right handers pulling that one. It’s hard to tell with the camera in the net, but I think you were lining up more with his body than the puck.  He’s actually leaning away from his stick probably trying to influence you even more to move to your right. The goal at 5:07 was also on his off wing.

It’s always worth noting whether a player is on his off-wing as we tend to go into auto-pilot when lining up and a change like that usually can throw a goalie

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here is a short clip of Mike Smith. See how he comes out of the rvh is set and square for the intial shot then follows the rebound and makes the 2nd save. 

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I thought you played well. A couple of times where you were drifting a bit. I have to agree with Ghost that it appeared you lined up with the player instead of the puck. I noticed a few times you moved into shots which is fine but that glove save at 2:15 it looked like you pushed away from the puck and had to reach with your glove to make the save. 

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16 hours ago, Ghostender said:

Looked good:

 

My one comment is more of a tip:

 

On the goal at 2:47, it’s a right handed shooter coming down his off-wing. I don’t know why (other than the fact it seems to work a lot), but I see a lot of right handers pulling that one. It’s hard to tell with the camera in the net, but I think you were lining up more with his body than the puck.  He’s actually leaning away from his stick probably trying to influence you even more to move to your right. The goal at 5:07 was also on his off wing.

It’s always worth noting whether a player is on his off-wing as we tend to go into auto-pilot when lining up and a change like that usually can throw a goalie

OK this is an EXCELLENT observation thank you! You are absolutely right, I was lined up with the players body, leaving the far side of the net too open. I will definitely pay attention to this next time.

 

9 hours ago, Imperative said:
here is a short clip of Mike Smith. See how he comes out of the rvh is set and square for the intial shot then follows the rebound and makes the 2nd save. 

Very slick. Not sure I have the skill to execute that yet, but I'm going to work on it. I think I have two problems - 1. I do a really bad job of connecting with the post with my toe, I always sort of hook the front of the boot inside the net. When I concentrate on using my back leg to push myself into the post I can do it, but I have trouble sliding into the correct position initially.; and 2. Even when I do plant my toe on the post, I do a bad job of pushing off, partly because the pegs we have are really bad and you can hardly get any leverage.

Smith seems to do more of a standing up move on his post-leg inside edge, rather than pushing off the post. I will try this for sure.

 

8 hours ago, Imperative said:

I thought you played well. A couple of times where you were drifting a bit. I have to agree with Ghost that it appeared you lined up with the player instead of the puck. I noticed a few times you moved into shots which is fine but that glove save at 2:15 it looked like you pushed away from the puck and had to reach with your glove to make the save. 

Thanks - yeah I think I'm letting myself drift with the skaters body there. Hard to get the timing right and make myself commit to setting my feet but the few times I did it right it felt very good!

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1 hour ago, Punisher Goalie said:

OK this is an EXCELLENT observation thank you! You are absolutely right, I was lined up with the players body, leaving the far side of the net too open. I will definitely pay attention to this next time...

Well the good news is that it’s probably one of the easiest things to fix in that there is no style change, just remembering where to place your alignment. A bit of visualization and/or practice in warmup and you are probably 90% of the way there (albeit, you still have to remember to do it during the game :)).

This reminds me of how lucky people are today to have forums like this: when I started (back when the rich kids had valet parking for their dinosaurs) it took my entire first season for me to realize that I should be lining up with the puck, not the shooter’s body. Sounds dumb, I know, but when you are trying to learn a million things about the position at once, stuff tends to get lost in the shuffle.

I will add that back then I had no coaching (actually never have) and you certainly couldn’t talk to another goalie as everyone was the competition: again, so nice to have access to these forums and the inherent knowledge base.

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1 hour ago, Ghostender said:

Well the good news is that it’s probably one of the easiest things to fix in that there is no style change, just remembering where to place your alignment. A bit of visualization and/or practice in warmup and you are probably 90% of the way there (albeit, you still have to remember to do it during the game :)).

This reminds me of how lucky people are today to have forums like this: when I started (back when the rich kids had valet parking for their dinosaurs) it took my entire first season for me to realize that I should be lining up with the puck, not the shooter’s body. Sounds dumb, I know, but when you are trying to learn a million things about the position at once, stuff tends to get lost in the shuffle.

I will add that back then I had no coaching (actually never have) and you certainly couldn’t talk to another goalie as everyone was the competition: again, so nice to have access to these forums and the inherent knowledge base.

100% yes. Dude, I wouldn't have even known how to PUT ON THE GEAR without watching a YouTube video when I first started. Having video and feedback from forums its just amazing. 

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Looks like you're having a good time out there. My only suggestion is not to play on your knees so much. It's probably more fun and easier to just slide around all the time, but you could be developing a bad habit and sacrificing your skating skill development. I know playing on your knees is the "thing" nowadays, but even if you watch pros who play that style (eg. Quick, Merzlikins, etc.) you'll see they don't use it all the time, and they are up on their skates pretty quickly.  Don't take what I'm saying negatively, you're doing great for someone who just started, but it's also important to correct bad habits early as well ;) Keep up the good job, and hope you enjoy it!

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First - you realy don´t look like someone, who just started. It is obvious, that your skating and agility as a player was realy good and that is great befefit of yours.

If I can make comment:

Agree with estogoalie, you play a lot on your knees. It is just because you slide well and it works for you. But if you look at game situations, you often end at your post, with leg behind goal line and not square to the puck - e.g. situation at 1:04. It is pickup, when players don´t go hard to the slot for pass or rebound, they just want to shoot. But with skilled players, they make you pay for overusing butterfly or RVH. It is realy hard to go to the top of the crease fast from this position and be set there (e.g. pass from corner), if you compare it to the basic T-pust and stop.

Don´t take this as a negative critique, it is just waht I saw at video (and must learn the hard way by myself over years).

There is good example of goalie, who use to play a lot on his knees (Jonas Hiller), but still recovers fast to the skates if there is time to do so.

 

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10 hours ago, estogoalie said:

Looks like you're having a good time out there. My only suggestion is not to play on your knees so much. It's probably more fun and easier to just slide around all the time, but you could be developing a bad habit and sacrificing your skating skill development. I know playing on your knees is the "thing" nowadays, but even if you watch pros who play that style (eg. Quick, Merzlikins, etc.) you'll see they don't use it all the time, and they are up on their skates pretty quickly.  Don't take what I'm saying negatively, you're doing great for someone who just started, but it's also important to correct bad habits early as well ;) Keep up the good job, and hope you enjoy it!

Yeah, this is a great suggestion. I can see that I have a tendency to favor sliding, especially to the posts, from waaaay further out than I should. In my defense, I think I do this more in pickup than a game because I'm trying to conserve energy (pickup is over 2 hours long with tons of shots, games are 45 minutes of play time).

10 hours ago, estogoalie said:

For camera mounting, I buy a suction mount (like this) and put the action-cam (Olympus TGtracker) on the outside part of the glass near my team bench.

Yes, I like this angle. I do have a suction cup mount, but I've always put it up behind the net for games. I would like to try this, perhaps next pickup session, to get a better look at how I'm presenting to the shooter. Thanks!

7 hours ago, mik said:

First - you realy don´t look like someone, who just started. It is obvious, that your skating and agility as a player was realy good and that is great befefit of yours.

If I can make comment:

Agree with estogoalie, you play a lot on your knees. It is just because you slide well and it works for you. But if you look at game situations, you often end at your post, with leg behind goal line and not square to the puck - e.g. situation at 1:04. It is pickup, when players don´t go hard to the slot for pass or rebound, they just want to shoot. But with skilled players, they make you pay for overusing butterfly or RVH. It is realy hard to go to the top of the crease fast from this position and be set there (e.g. pass from corner), if you compare it to the basic T-pust and stop.

Don´t take this as a negative critique, it is just waht I saw at video (and must learn the hard way by myself over years).

There is good example of goalie, who use to play a lot on his knees (Jonas Hiller), but still recovers fast to the skates if there is time to do so.  

Thanks for the kind words. Still amazes me how different the mechanics of playing in net are from skating out, but you're right - my prior skating experience is a big help. Still hard to execute those T-pushes, etc!

The Hiller video is great, especially where I can see how fast he is moving from the post to the near side high in the crease, down in the BF, then recovering to his feet to T-push to the opposite post. This is what I was referencing above where I would tend to try to cover that whole distance with a slide. I will try to shoot myself doing both moves in warm-ups for a comparison. I bet I can recover to the far post faster by getting back to my feet. Thank you!

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That's exactly what I tried in summer at camp with goalie coach - he showed me that if I am at RVH, I do not have a chance to slide through on fast pass. But if you are on skates - hard T-push, stop and set - you can make it reay fast. He said - slide there if you must, but don´t be lazy to set up and skate :D .

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17 hours ago, mik said:

That's exactly what I tried in summer at camp with goalie coach - he showed me that if I am at RVH, I do not have a chance to slide through on fast pass. But if you are on skates - hard T-push, stop and set - you can make it reay fast. He said - slide there if you must, but don´t be lazy to set up and skate :D .

Yes - about to post a video now that includes my attempt at this...

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Had some ice time today, and made a quick video of a few of my drills with some on-screen commentary...

I did not come up with any of these, I copied them all from other YouTube goalies - I'm sure you will recognize some. At the beginning, I also attempt to execute the suggestion many of you made to recover to the posts on my feet as opposed to sliding so much.

This was also my first session back in my R/GT pads in a while. Can't say 100% yet, but I may be sticking with them over the E Flex IIIs. The R/GTs are just so much lighter and I don't think they slide any less efficiently. I had also forgotten how much I like the active response strap for the toe with no boot strap. These pads also have my version of the "Professor Strap", which I'll snap some pictures of and post to the Mods subforum soon.

Please please give me any suggestions you can on my form or other drills to do, etc. Thank you so much for all of the feedback so far!

 

 

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Man, for someone who started in goal in their mid-30's just a few months ago, you're doing phenomenal! You should feel like you're off to a strong start.

I only watched the first minute or so of the video, but I did see one big thing I would suggest working on. You're not really skating with your stick in position - it's floating around, and then you're dropping it down when you go down. That baby should be flat on the ice, regardless of whether you're skating out from the post, or getting up and heading back to the other post. Aside from the obvious 5-hole coverage, your stick in going to lead the rest of your body when you skate and reposition yourself. It's an old adage, but when your stick is square with the puck, the rest of your body's going to follow - arms, shoulders, torso, and legs. It also forces you to stay low, it keeps you leaning forward a bit, and helps your skating momentum.

I'm sure 'keep your stick square and on the ice' is probably something you've heard before, even playing just a few months. It is certainly not the most original or interesting piece of advice, but it's something almost all goalies need to do, regardless of their skill level. I know that I focus on being both mindful and active with my stick when I'm struggling, and I find that such a small thing paves the way for plenty of good side effects.

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That's a heck of a workout!  The two puck/back side pushes drill - awesome.  It would take me probably 5 minutes to get around 1 puck let alone both.

You might want to check out the section on blocker side saves - watch your feet.  Back when it was mentioned to be "set" for the shot, you'll see how your feet are in motion, though the rest of you isn't much.  Maybe you're too jacked, or anxious or had too many RedBulls......but keep those feet planted until the shot is released.

And I'm very much down with what stackem said.  I've drilled that into my kids since they started playing goal.  My daughter has fantastic control of her goalie stick and she moves with it pretty well.  My son (2 years younger) is still working on it, but not too bad either.

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