new skates height?

[Old Coyote]

Old beer-leaguer considering new skates. First question, are the blades on most newer skates higher than older ones (so the boot is further off the ice)? If so, how does this affect the push-off for a lateral slide when down? I don't need anything that makes it harder LOL

[Chenner29]

Yes most besides the True one-piece will sit higher than a traditional skate with cowlings.  I think CCM has the second lowest sitting ride with their new holder.

You'll be able to grab an edge quicker from butterfly, but your sense of balance may feel a little higher up than what you are used to.

[coopaloop1234]

24 minutes ago, Chenner29 said:

Yes most besides the True one-piece will sit higher than a traditional skate with cowlings.  I think CCM has the second lowest sitting ride with their new holder.

You'll be able to grab an edge quicker from butterfly, but your sense of balance may feel a little higher up than what you are used to.

@Old Coyote Chenner is right on all of this. The CCM holder will also be flatter than Bauer/True. 

If you're able to get your hands on any skate with a cowling, you'll be able to find a skate that sits lower to the ice and is even flatter than anything being offered today (minus True's 1 piece skate). 

 

[CPage]

It intrigues me that the only skate option on the market today that sits lower to the ice is the True 1 piece. I myself would be in those if I could justify dropping 1500$ on a pair of skates (regular Beer Leaguer here…).

I understand that the True 1 piece is probably not easily transferable to a stock version in the same way as the 2 piece (TF9 and TF7) because of the way the boot is designed. But based on the number of guys in the Show wearing the 1 piece,  it seems to me that there would be a market for a stock skate that can sit lower to the ice while also offering a stiff boot and aggressive attack angle. I myself would be very interested in that kind of product because my impression is that current stock skates would feel like stilts to me coming from a cowling.

[WillyGrips13]

Also, don’t feel obligated to buy new from a hockey store. You can find older gear everywhere online. Even in relatively new condition. SidelineSwap, eBay, Facebook marketplace all will have stuff from previous eras. There are even groups on social media that deal entirely in old gear. Vintage Goalie Equipment on Facebook is one example. So don’t feel like you have to shoehorn yourself into new style equipment that won’t work for you. 
For example, I wear Graf750 Goaler Pro skates. I got replacement cowlings on SidelineSwap four-ish years ago. I can still find that skate or the cowlings on a site/platform like that even though that skate hasn’t been sold in stores in more than a decade. 

[creasecollector]

I went from old Bauer 3000's to a True 2-piece with a Bauer Supreme Vertexx cowling. The different going in was pretty big, but the adjustment wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. A few drop-in skates to get used to the new height and you'll be fine. The biggest adjustment for me was the new stiffness, as my old skates were super soft.

[coopaloop1234]

On 3/11/2023 at 9:02 AM, CPage said:

It intrigues me that the only skate option on the market today that sits lower to the ice is the True 1 piece. I myself would be in those if I could justify dropping 1500$ on a pair of skates (regular Beer Leaguer here…).

This is why I got an extra set of steel for my CCM Tacks. I'll be sitting in my cowling skate for a while. 

[CPage]

19 hours ago, creasecollector said:

I went from old Bauer 3000's to a True 2-piece with a Bauer Supreme Vertexx cowling. The different going in was pretty big, but the adjustment wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. A few drop-in skates to get used to the new height and you'll be fine. The biggest adjustment for me was the new stiffness, as my old skates were super soft.

I’ve been contemplating doing exactly this ever since I noticed Anton Forsberg’s setup. I’m curious which True boot you decided to go with and how to match up the cowling size with the boot size (cowlings come in a size range if I’m not mistaken?) Was it a big job to get the cowling onto the boot?

[johncho]

One thing I've noticed is that the new skate height is unforgiving to a poorly fitting skate. I will make a new post about it, but the new skate height basically exposed a fit issue that I am currently experiencing.

Edited March 14 by johncho

[Chenner29]

On 3/11/2023 at 9:02 AM, CPage said:

I understand that the True 1 piece is probably not easily transferable to a stock version in the same way as the 2 piece (TF9 and TF7) because of the way the boot is designed. But based on the number of guys in the Show wearing the 1 piece,  it seems to me that there would be a market for a stock skate that can sit lower to the ice while also offering a stiff boot and aggressive attack angle. I myself would be very interested in that kind of product because my impression is that current stock skates would feel like stilts to me coming from a cowling.

That’s the rub, to get a better attack angle you have to have a taller holder and/or steel.  The main selling point of the one piece True outside of the custom fit is the stiffness between the bottom of the boot and he holder.  You can skate on a shallower sharpening while still being able to grip the ice as if they were very sharp.  I think I went from 3/8” on the Bauer holders to 9/16” on the one piece True.

IIRC the only other concept that’s been thrown out there with regards to attack angle is insetting the holder slightly toward the ball of the foot instead of straight down midline of the boot, but this would probably be a more drastic change to the goalie’s skating mechanics than most would like to deal with. 
 

12 hours ago, CPage said:

I’ve been contemplating doing exactly this ever since I noticed Anton Forsberg’s setup. I’m curious which True boot you decided to go with and how to match up the cowling size with the boot size (cowlings come in a size range if I’m not mistaken?) Was it a big job to get the cowling onto the boot?

My first experiment with True was to order a custom boot without the holder. I tried to put them on my old Graf cowlings but they do not fit (both size 7), mostly because I have a high instep that would not fit under the toe of the cowling. You may have to order a size larger cowling, or have a shop with a wider selection of cowlings do the mount. 

[dstew29]

On 3/13/2023 at 1:02 PM, creasecollector said:

I went from old Bauer 3000's to a True 2-piece with a Bauer Supreme Vertexx cowling. The different going in was pretty big, but the adjustment wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. A few drop-in skates to get used to the new height and you'll be fine. The biggest adjustment for me was the new stiffness, as my old skates were super soft.

I’m in a True 1 piece now (not current offering but prior Gen circa 2020). I’m thinking my next skate will just be the current/newest Gen 1 piece True, but I too have been eyeing a slightly taller setup vs the 1 piece.

I’d naturally look to the True 2 piece but then it begs the question of holder. It looks like an overwhelming majority of guys at various pro/elite levels go with a True custom boot and Bauer vertex holder. Anyone have a guess as to why that is? Especially now that True revamped their own two piece “shift” holder?

I’m not sure what the height delta is between the 1 piece and 2 piece true skates but it appears significant. 

 

[CPage]

22 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

That’s the rub, to get a better attack angle you have to have a taller holder and/or steel.  The main selling point of the one piece True outside of the custom fit is the stiffness between the bottom of the boot and he holder.  You can skate on a shallower sharpening while still being able to grip the ice as if they were very sharp.  I think I went from 3/8” on the Bauer holders to 9/16” on the one piece True.

IIRC the only other concept that’s been thrown out there with regards to attack angle is insetting the holder slightly toward the ball of the foot instead of straight down midline of the boot, but this would probably be a more drastic change to the goalie’s skating mechanics than most would like to deal with. 
 

My first experiment with True was to order a custom boot without the holder. I tried to put them on my old Graf cowlings but they do not fit (both size 7), mostly because I have a high instep that would not fit under the toe of the cowling. You may have to order a size larger cowling, or have a shop with a wider selection of cowlings do the mount. 

Thanks Chenner for the first hand info. I totally agree about the correlation between height of holder and attack angle. Going by eye, it just looks to me like the True 1 piece is the best compromise between attack angle and holder not beeing « too » high (compared to everything else that’s out there right now) due to the construction and lack of a cowling… And what you say about the boot to holder stiffness also makes a lot of sense; this really seems like the best skate for someone who wants to feel quick and stable on their feet and still get nice pushes in the butterfly. I guess I’m just aggravated that there’s nothing else that can achieve relatively the same thing at a lower price point…! : )

Your experience with the true boot/graf cowling is also well noted and appreciated. The fit between different brands definitely makes me nervous… There’s a Hockey Monkey not too far from where I live and they apparently have a « skate whisperer » working there; so I’ll go see if I can talk to him and see what can be done. 

[Chenner29]

9 hours ago, dstew29 said:

I’m in a True 1 piece now (not current offering but prior Gen circa 2020). I’m thinking my next skate will just be the current/newest Gen 1 piece True, but I too have been eyeing a slightly taller setup vs the 1 piece.

I’d naturally look to the True 2 piece but then it begs the question of holder. It looks like an overwhelming majority of guys at various pro/elite levels go with a True custom boot and Bauer vertex holder. Anyone have a guess as to why that is? Especially now that True revamped their own two piece “shift” holder?

I’m not sure what the height delta is between the 1 piece and 2 piece true skates but it appears significant. 

 

IIRC True’s new 2pc is essentially a carbon copy of the Bauer’s height/pitch/etc with True’s blade retention system  

I posted a comparison with measurements between my 2pc True w/Vertexx holder vs True 1pc a few years ago, don’t remember what thread it was in though, I think overall it was a 1/2” height difference from ice to bottom of boot 

2 hours ago, CPage said:

Thanks Chenner for the first hand info. I totally agree about the correlation between height of holder and attack angle. Going by eye, it just looks to me like the True 1 piece is the best compromise between attack angle and holder not beeing « too » high (compared to everything else that’s out there right now) due to the construction and lack of a cowling… And what you say about the boot to holder stiffness also makes a lot of sense; this really seems like the best skate for someone who wants to feel quick and stable on their feet and still get nice pushes in the butterfly. I guess I’m just aggravated that there’s nothing else that can achieve relatively the same thing at a lower price point…! : )

Your experience with the true boot/graf cowling is also well noted and appreciated. The fit between different brands definitely makes me nervous… There’s a Hockey Monkey not too far from where I live and they apparently have a « skate whisperer » working there; so I’ll go see if I can talk to him and see what can be done. 

If you are in the US you can order through a Canadian dealer (like Goalie Crease) - apparently the scanning app is available for everyone now, after currency conversion it comes out to maybe $100 more than buying a Konekt with sales tax from a US dealer 

[johncho]

19 hours ago, dstew29 said:

I’d naturally look to the True 2 piece but then it begs the question of holder. It looks like an overwhelming majority of guys at various pro/elite levels go with a True custom boot and Bauer vertex holder. Anyone have a guess as to why that is? Especially now that True revamped their own two piece “shift” holder?

Probably because of EQM being able to source Bauer style aftermarket steels from their fav places, as well as the tool-less removal/replacement of steels.

[dstew29]

@Chenner29 do you have any line of sight on latest gen 1 Piece true attack angle vs prior gen? I don’t think they added height to the holder, but I think I read somewhere that they thinned out the inner boot profile or something like that?

 

And if anyone else out there using the latest 1 piece True coming from prior gen, can you attest to this? Any noticeable other improvements? I assume they probably shaved off some weight somehow too…

[Chenner29]

13 hours ago, dstew29 said:

@Chenner29 do you have any line of sight on latest gen 1 Piece true attack angle vs prior gen? I don’t think they added height to the holder, but I think I read somewhere that they thinned out the inner boot profile or something like that?

 

And if anyone else out there using the latest 1 piece True coming from prior gen, can you attest to this? Any noticeable other improvements? I assume they probably shaved off some weight somehow too…

Nope, my local hockey stores (Monkey and Pure) only have floor samples of the older model.

[creasecollector]

On 3/14/2023 at 9:11 AM, CPage said:

I’ve been contemplating doing exactly this ever since I noticed Anton Forsberg’s setup. I’m curious which True boot you decided to go with and how to match up the cowling size with the boot size (cowlings come in a size range if I’m not mistaken?) Was it a big job to get the cowling onto the boot?

These are my wheels. I bought it new-to-me so no installation needed. The cowlings size will fit up to a half size down from the stated size. These are a around a size 6.5-7 skate and the sized 7 cowling fits. I beleive these are the 2nd gen True boots, not the first. 

Edited March 24 by creasecollector

[dstew29]

2 hours ago, creasecollector said:

These are my wheels. I bought it new-to-me so no installation needed. The cowlings size will fit up to a half size down from the stated size. These are an yaround a size 6.5-7 skate and the sized 7 cowling fits. I beleive these are the 2nd gen True boots, not the first. 

Why?

[creasecollector]

On 3/24/2023 at 10:34 PM, dstew29 said:

Why?

Because the price was right and was an fantastic update from my older Bauer 3000's. 

I bought these a few years back and they are still going strong. 

[dstew29]

17 hours ago, creasecollector said:

Because the price was right and was an fantastic update from my older Bauer 3000's. 

I bought these a few years back and they are still going strong. 

Sorry just realized my intended post didn’t take! The question was why not the newer vertex (I was expecting the newer vertex holder based on your prior post). Was curious why you didn’t try those out. Looks like they are favored by most True 2-piece users (although admittedly there are still some pros holding out with prior gen cowling vertex like yours). Is the weight difference negligible  vs vertex holder even though it’s a cowling?

 

[creasecollector]

11 hours ago, dstew29 said:

Sorry just realized my intended post didn’t take! The question was why not the newer vertex (I was expecting the newer vertex holder based on your prior post). Was curious why you didn’t try those out. Looks like they are favored by most True 2-piece users (although admittedly there are still some pros holding out with prior gen cowling vertex like yours). Is the weight difference negligible  vs vertex holder even though it’s a cowling?

 

No problem. 

Honestly, going from a super floppy Bauer 3000 skate that was too small for me and I've worn since I was 13, Any pair of skates was an upgrade at that point.

So instead of buying a new set of cowlingless skates at a retailer or picking up a vertexx holder and running the risk of not liking it, I decided to go "old school" and just stick with what works: a boot and a cowling. Trying modern skates were going to be a big enough adjustment as-is, so it just made sense to keep the learning curve as simple as possible within reason.

Also, I got a great deal on my skates, which is always a plus when searching for new gear as a beer league tender. My next pair of skates will be cowlingless most likely due to the way skate tech is going, which is cool, but until then I will happily enjoy these beauties. 

Edited March 28 by creasecollector