Connor Bedard Jaw Fracture

[MTH]

Nobody bought a ticket to watch Brendan Smith.

Nobody.

This is why the NHL is like 5th on the ranking of pro sports. They have no stars. When they do, they aren't protected.

Blah blah - head down - the game is tough - blah. Nobody cares. It's like rooting for the storm troopers that shoot Han Solo. 

The NHL can fix this easily. Drop the crazy instigation rule. Just make it 2 extra minutes for instigation. No suspensions, fines, game misconducts, etc. Let the teams dress a criminal on skates every game. Leave him on the bench until it's time to make someone pay. It won't happen often, but the threat of it will do more for the stars than any fines, penalty, etc. they implement.

No one in their right mind would dare touch Bedard if they knew there was someone going to basically beat them to a pulp if they do. 

Stop the lame 'challenge to a fight' with two dweeb players who never been punched in the face before. It's useless. You're not standing up for your teammate. Just stop. Nobody is afraid to take runs at your best players still.

Just let some gorilla jump any player that is out of line. Everyone will toe that line quickly.

Then we'll have stars that are healthy and can make the game more entertaining. (Also we get to witness those that cross the line get put into their place). Win win!

[coopaloop1234]

You alright there champ? This is some bonafide old man ranting. 

Bedard ran head first into a defender. Not sure what you expect to protect? 

[Puckstopper]

28 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

You alright there champ? This is some bonafide old man ranting. 

Bedard ran head first into a defender. Not sure what you expect to protect? 

Agreed.   I don't want to see cheap shots on stars, but THAT WASN'T A CHEAP SHOT.    He wasn't driven head first into the boards, he wasn't crosschecked in the neck by Jamie Benn, he wasn't driven into the glass at the corner of the bench at high speed, nor was he slew-footed or licked by Brad Marchand.  He was just on the wrong end of a good clean body check, and even you admit should have had his head up. 

[Wonder35]

2 hours ago, MTH said:

Nobody bought a ticket to watch Brendan Smith.

Nobody.

This is why the NHL is like 5th on the ranking of pro sports. They have no stars. When they do, they aren't protected.

Blah blah - head down - the game is tough - blah. Nobody cares. It's like rooting for the storm troopers that shoot Han Solo. 

The NHL can fix this easily. Drop the crazy instigation rule. Just make it 2 extra minutes for instigation. No suspensions, fines, game misconducts, etc. Let the teams dress a criminal on skates every game. Leave him on the bench until it's time to make someone pay. It won't happen often, but the threat of it will do more for the stars than any fines, penalty, etc. they implement.

No one in their right mind would dare touch Bedard if they knew there was someone going to basically beat them to a pulp if they do. 

Stop the lame 'challenge to a fight' with two dweeb players who never been punched in the face before. It's useless. You're not standing up for your teammate. Just stop. Nobody is afraid to take runs at your best players still.

Just let some gorilla jump any player that is out of line. Everyone will toe that line quickly.

Then we'll have stars that are healthy and can make the game more entertaining. (Also we get to witness those that cross the line get put into their place). Win win!

Methinks that you are promoting "back to the good old days" of Philly Flyers goon hockey. Yes, it is a shame that Bedard had his jaw broken and a team mate broke a finger in coming to his rescue. It was an expensive lesson for the teen age phenom and the Black Hawk organization. A clean hit, I think so. A hard hit, yes. No penalty, yes.

[chile57]

I think something like this is a wakeup call for the young guns - you are playing in a men's league now. All the dipsy doo dunkeroo stuff can get you leveled if you aren't paying attention. I don't have a problem with it - I think of it as a course correct. Agree with the above - if somebody is out there taking liberties - they should have to answer the bell. What I don't care for seeing is guys having to fight for laying a clean check. I think back to the many opponents that got Kronwall'd (LEGALLY) where thereafter folks would be angling for a fight. That's where suspensions should be handed out. A good, clean body check can be as much of a momentum swing as a timely goal and it shouldn't be taken out of the game or dissuaded because you're going to HAVE to fight thereafter. Dirty hit = fight/suspension, clean hit = tip your cap.

Edited January 8 by chile57

[MTH]

I'm good. Not really old man rant. Old guys are the ones saying the current game is soft. Man up!

Stinks that the stars get abused in the NHL. Then the league and the fans whine that nobody cares about the NHL. Yet they defend their star players getting hurt by their own players.

The league will change because of this. IIHF rules for head contact are pretty tough. While the hit wasn't head hunting at all - he still obviously struck him in the head (jaw).

Add in that USA Hockey's modified checking rules also would not allow this hit - the defender made no attempt at the puck and only targeted the player. You could even stretch it too and say he was in a indefensible position to be hit (he was reaching for the puck). The rules are changing and they'll use plays like this as the reason(s).

Then the same fans that applauded this play will then be mad at the new rules ruining the game.

Again, the league needs stars. The NFL knows this and banned any type of contact with a quarterback's head. I can see this being the case here soon with the NHL.

[coopaloop1234]

Just now, MTH said:

The league will change because of this. IIHF rules for head contact are pretty tough. While the hit wasn't head hunting at all - he still obviously struck him in the head (jaw).

Add in that USA Hockey's modified checking rules also would not allow this hit - the defender made no attempt at the puck and only targeted the player. You could even stretch it too and say he was in a indefensible position to be hit (he was reaching for the puck). The rules are changing and they'll use plays like this as the reason(s).

Then the same fans that applauded this play will then be mad at the new rules ruining the game.

I hate both the IIHF mandatory major and the new USA hockey rules. 

There's a shift in a lack of onus for players protecting themselves and relying on the league/refs to do that for themselves. 

Players turning their backs at the last second, guys skating with their heads down, and guys not engaging in contact with a guy breathing down their neck as they race towards a puck in a precarious position. 

I'll old man rant here. I remember when the primary lesson when we were starting hitting in hockey was that the best person out there to protect you is yourself. We learned how to give and take a hit, how to engage prior to board play, and to always know who's out there. The opposing team isn't going to take your safety into account so protect yourself. 

Where did the idea that self accountability to protect yourself become so secondary? 

[MTH]

34 minutes ago, chile57 said:

I think something like this is a wakeup call for the young guns - you are playing in a men's league now. All the dipsy doo dunkeroo stuff can get you leveled if you aren't paying attention. I don't have a problem with it - I think of it as a course correct. Agree with the above - if somebody is out there taking liberties - they should have to answer the bell. What I don't care for seeing is guys having to fight for laying a clean check. I think back to the many opponents that got Kronwall'd (LEGALLY) where thereafter folks would be angling for a fight. That's where suspensions should be handed out. A good, clean body check can be as much of a momentum swing as a timely goal and it shouldn't be taken out of the game or dissuaded because you're going to HAVE to fight thereafter. Dirty hit = fight/suspension, clean hit = tip your cap.

I didn't see any fights in this game. Guys wrestled and all, but no fight.

Again, answering the bell - does nothing. No opposing players think twice about taking a shot at any player on the ice. The term and the useless tussles after are just a waste of time.

Want so see a similar hit and a real reaction and fights?

 

This was the playoffs too.

[MTH]

8 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

I hate both the IIHF mandatory major and the new USA hockey rules. 

There's a shift in a lack of onus for players protecting themselves and relying on the league/refs to do that for themselves. 

Players turning their backs at the last second, guys skating with their heads down, and guys not engaging in contact with a guy breathing down their neck as they race towards a puck in a precarious position. 

I'll old man rant here. I remember when the primary lesson when we were starting hitting in hockey was that the best person out there to protect you is yourself. We learned how to give and take a hit, how to engage prior to board play, and to always know who's out there. The opposing team isn't going to take your safety into account so protect yourself. 

Where did the idea that self accountability to protect yourself become so secondary? 

All the kids coming up using these rules are in (or will be) the NHL. It's not going to get better, unfortunately.

The teaching the kids how to get hit does occur - but mind you - the hitting in youth hockey is now different. So the instincts on getting hit and defending yourself are not developed like they were decades ago. 

Different game.

[coopaloop1234]

1 minute ago, MTH said:

All the kids coming up using these rules are in (or will be) the NHL. It's not going to get better, unfortunately.

The teaching the kids how to get hit does occur - but mind you - the hitting in youth hockey is now different. So the instincts on getting hit and defending yourself are not developed like they were decades ago. 

Different game.

Definitely. Like you said, it's already bleeding into the game and will only get worse. 

My taste for the NHL has dwindled over the years as the physicality and violence has subsided. I've always loved the tough aspect of the sport and seeing it turn into what's essentially the equivalent of my beer league games gets kind of boring. 

 

[MTH]

58 minutes ago, Wonder35 said:

Methinks that you are promoting "back to the good old days" of Philly Flyers goon hockey. Yes, it is a shame that Bedard had his jaw broken and a team mate broke a finger in coming to his rescue. It was an expensive lesson for the teen age phenom and the Black Hawk organization. A clean hit, I think so. A hard hit, yes. No penalty, yes.

More 80s Oilers style than anything. 

Or Yzerman making plays with Probert and Kocur on the bench keeping tabs on who went near their guy.

Lessons don't keep fans watching. NHL can barely get people to watch their games on tv.

[MTH]

Just now, coopaloop1234 said:

Definitely. Like you said, it's already bleeding into the game and will only get worse. 

My taste for the NHL has dwindled over the years as the physicality and violence has subsided. I've always loved the tough aspect of the sport and seeing it turn into what's essentially the equivalent of my beer league games gets kind of boring. 

 

I'm the same.

We're in the waning seasons of open ice hits. 

The game will change.

[keeperton]

Make the players wear actual facial protection. 

[Wonder35]

If you want to watch some old time rhubarbs check out my friend Glen Cochrane, now a Scout for the Ducks. He duked it out with all the big boys.

 

Edited January 9 by Wonder35

[Fullright]

It was just an unfortunate set of circumstances. The collision was clean. Smith didnt do anything wrong. Bedard had his head up but between trying to control the puck, trying to get around Smith, and Smith doing his job of closing the gap, Bedard's jaw went right into the shoulder of Smith. I dont see a way to protect a player of Bedard's skill on this one. 

I kinda have a contrary view of the physical play. Seems to me that the watering down of hitting at the youth level has led to players as they age being ignorant of how to protect themselves from otherwise clean but heavy hits. The sport has almost become a no check sport. I dont want to go back to the gang fights of the Flyers when they won their cups but part of the sport's tradition is hitting. I get a stomach ache when I see "stop" signs on the back of sweaters. Coaches should be able to teach a check and how to avoid putting yourself in a dangerous position when about to be checked. You dont throw a kid in the pool without teaching him or her how to swim.

[MTH]

1. The Flyers of their cup days (mid 70s) invented system hockey. While they did a good job with the roughhousing - they implemented offensive and defensive systems that nobody else was doing yet. Now everyone does it from Squirt level up. Look at the game against the Red Army where the Flyers held them to just a handful of shots. The Red Army was running over every team in the NHL then.

2. The Flyers scored goals. Dave Shultz even tallied 20 goals one year with the Flyers.

3. The players today are faster than ever. So even innocuous collisions on the ice are bigger impacts than actual "big hits" in the day. Can't help this.

4. The hit Smith put on was obviously legal - but I wish guys were scared to even legally touch the names. Why I wish the instigator rule was gone. Opposing players would have to weigh the risk versus reward of even a legal hit like that. You may have only bumped Bedard a little if you knew Glen Cochrane was going to punch your face in.

5. I think the rule change will ban this type of hit as Smith made to attempt to get the puck. His only goal was to hit Bedard. Legal now, but youth hockey as already made that type of play illegal. I'm betting the NHL will soon too.

[chile57]

I miss early 90's hockey. True Divisional First Rounds and all that jazz. The stakes just felt higher no matter what series you were watching.

[coopaloop1234]

3 minutes ago, MTH said:

3. The players today are faster than ever. So even innocuous collisions on the ice are bigger impacts than actual "big hits" in the day. Can't help this.

Ain't that the truth. I watched an old '78 playoff game with my old man not too long ago and the difference in speed, size, and skill is night and day. 

My beer league team would probably walk over some of the NHL teams in the past. How we play the game is vastly different. 

[MTH]

16 hours ago, Wonder35 said:

If you want to watch some old time rhubarbs check out my friend Glen Cochrane, now a Scout for the Ducks. He duked it out with all the big boys.

 

I loved his look with the Flyers - with long pants and the mustache, he looked like an olde tyme boxer:

[MTH]

2 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Ain't that the truth. I watched an old '78 playoff game with my old man not too long ago and the difference in speed, size, and skill is night and day. 

My beer league team would probably walk over some of the NHL teams in the past. How we play the game is vastly different. 

The old games look like slow motion. 

Your team would. Although the guys on the old NHL teams would slash the hell out of you guys. Amazing how much slashing was allowed. Why they all wore gloves that went to their elbows.

[coopaloop1234]

4 minutes ago, MTH said:

The old games look like slow motion. 

Your team would. Although the guys on the old NHL teams would slash the hell out of you guys. Amazing how much slashing was allowed. Why they all wore gloves that went to their elbows.

That's true, we would not be walking out of that game unscathed. 

[WillyGrips13]

Defending has just been fishing for the puck, chasing the puck around and trying to block shots for a while now. It’s hard to watch such incompetent defending. I didn’t watch hockey for a while because of it. I almost had to make a deal with myself that I just had to accept the subpar defensive play and try to enjoy the rest of the game. Goaltending has never been better, regardless of whether numbers reflect it. I’m sure the more granular advanced stats do show how good they are. Offense is more lethal than ever. The players have gotten smarter about shot and pass selection. Rarely are there many easy saves to be made. 
All this is to say that body contact is still the most effective way to stop or at least hinder an attacker in a one-on-one situation. It doesn’t even have to be a big hit. Simply having good gap control and essentially guiding the opponent into your frame will slow them down. I’m not asking for Scott Stevens shoulder-checks or Darius Kasparitus hip-checks. Just focus on the body and slow the guy down. How many “highlight-reel” goals are as much about the defender going fishing for the puck and getting undressed than the attacker being amazing? I really hope we get a return of emphasizing body contact as the primary method of defending one-on-one plays. Also covering players without the puck and defending passing lanes. Teams can’t hold leads anymore because defensive zone play is so chaotic. 

Edited January 10 by WillyGrips13

[Fullright]

This is really hard to untangle isnt it?

 @MTH, you are so correct about the Flyers during their run. Shero, aside from being weird, was a genius at developing systems. Didnt hurt their run either with the guy they had in goal. But there's no denying that physical intimidation was a big element of their game given the times. So strange their run was shortly after the Habs and their amazing run. Those Habs intimidated with their skill and to a lesser degree Robinson and Bouchard being physical.

I agree that hits to the head have to be outlawed for the reasons mentioned by the other fellas here about size, speed, etc of modern players together with hitting from behind. Things happen so fast now days that it would be really hard to fashion bright line rules. The players though have a role to play in this situation. Bedard's deal is just a hockey play gone wrong. The younger guys have to learn, however, how to avoid putting themselves in dangerous positions as well as how to hit cleanly. How that is accomplished I just dont have any good ideas. I am not a coach and have never gone to any sort of seminar or education to be a coach. I do know that a patch on the back of a sweater wont work and to some degree implicitly removes the players' need to know how to hit and be hit and the coach's obligation to teach it. No check hockey has its place but not at advanced levels and certainly not in The Show.

[Wonder35]

On 1/9/2024 at 9:19 AM, MTH said:

I loved his look with the Flyers - with long pants and the mustache, he looked like an olde tyme boxer:

It is so emotional for me to acknowledge this. My friend Glen Cochrane, former NHL player, scout for the Anaheim Ducks, died this morning. Glen had been undergoing treatments for Cancer in Vancouver. 

Somehow it seems appropriate that Glen, always a Warrior, left us on Hockey Day in Canada. Blessings to Joan and their girls.

[MTH]

On 1/13/2024 at 6:32 PM, Wonder35 said:

It is so emotional for me to acknowledge this. My friend Glen Cochrane, former NHL player, scout for the Anaheim Ducks, died this morning. Glen had been undergoing treatments for Cancer in Vancouver. 

Somehow it seems appropriate that Glen, always a Warrior, left us on Hockey Day in Canada. Blessings to Joan and their girls.

Oh I'm so sorry.