Why Do We Keep Buying High Priced Unfinished Gloves???

[CamWardFan]

So guys, after experiencing the break in of a new  &500+ Brian's Optik 3 glove for the first time, I started to get a little angry.  I busted my butt trying every internet trick in the book, hours working it manually in front of the TV every night for weeks, and still the thing wouldn't open or close fully.  Then I finally sent it off to the Goalie Glove Guy (another &200 for his services and shipping) and when I got it back it was better but STILL wouldn't fully open or close. I finally just went out and bought an on sale Warrior G6.1 E+ to use while I'm STILL breaking the Optik in. (The Warrior was broken in after 2 days by the way....).   I have even contacted Brian's Customer Service- they said they would be happy to look at it but I would have to pay another $200 for 2 way shipping.

 I now follow The Goalie Glove Guy on Instagram (he's really a great guy, cares about his craft, and really is an expert), and his shop is FULL of brand new gloves that he has to professionally break in.  He gets literally hundreds a year of brand new gloves that can't be used until you pay someone else to get it game ready!!!

So here's my question. Why are we paying these companies $300 to $700 for a supposedly game ready product that actually is NOT anywhere near game ready?? What other product do you (at best) have to spend hours and hours on and often extra money just to be able to use it??

I KNOW that these companies don't give their contract pro and amateur goalies gloves that are stiff as a board.  They've got machines to break those gloves in.  There's no reason for the price we are paying for these gloves that they can't do that for us PAYING customers.  Don't tell me it's too expensive. Figure it out.  You're sending your customers a big money product that is not even usable........

I'm sorry, I've been in the product and customer service trade for a long time, and I would be frankly embarrassed to send out the junk they are sending us, top dollar junk too.

Opinions??

 

[keeperton]

I'm really surprised you're having that issue with a Brian's gloves. The only ones I've ever been able to open-and-close off the shelf are Brian's, Warrior, and Vaughn (Bauer has been doing better on this since the 2X, but still).

You might need to contextualize that the professionals also weight train. A guy I play with regularly just got a Kahkonen V10 XP glove with a pro palm that clearly saw barely any use and the thing closes pretty easily, but still requires a little more finesse. By that I mean, it's not really that different, if any, from what someone could buy from Vaughn direct.

"Game Ready" at this point is more just a statement of the palm protection thickness. I wouldn't take too much stock in anything otherwise.

Last thing I guess I'd recommend is if you're having trouble opening it, store it upright and the T full opened on the floor propping the glove up leaned against something else to hold it vertical. That's done wonders for me over the years.

[RichMan]

I kinda understand the frustration. It's not like breaking in a baseball glove. You can't oil it since it's not real leather and it's nothing like the Mizuno fabric/nylon gloves since goalie gloves have hard plastics, thick foams and multiple layers, all for your protection.

As mentioned, it quite varies from one brand to another, and even one model to another within the same brand. And then, what we get in stores is nothing like what the pros wear. This is very important to understand. They need something that is usable within 2-3 practices tops so they can then use it in a game. This excludes their practice gloves of course. Us retail mortals have time and flexibility on our side. I'm sure that if you order custom, you could ask the company to "break it in" for you before shipping. I assume it would be the same method as buying one in the store, throwing it in the skate oven for 5-10 minutes and then working it in and then wrapping it with string or cellophane to encourage the closure.

Then comes the topic of individual strength. Yes, it plays a factor in the process. I for instance have a normal sized palm but thin short fingers. Add to that a bad thumb, so my overall grip strength is not strongman worthy. Even if I hit the gym on a regular and lift weights, it's only relevant to my personal capabilities. You could implement hand grip strength exercises and forearm work as well if you wish.

I'm not saying you're weak. It is true that some gloves feel like trash. I can't do shit with a CCM or True on. Bauer isn't any easier. Brian's is ok depending on the model as is with Vaughn. Warrior was the easiest but even then, I had to spend the time working it in and flexing it and taking pucks to it to get a suitable closure for my hand strength and playing demands. Is it perfect? Not really, but it keeps getting better with every drop of sweat it absorbs. Of course, for the most part, when you get to the point where your glove closes as if you're wearing those lovely winter mittens your grandmother knitted for you last Christmas, chances are the palm has broken down or the plastics and/or foams inside have cracked and that's when you start feeling every single shot as if you were facing Webber in the All-Star shootout.

In the end, unless you have good connections at the top, or you've tried one of the methods suggested by myself and others here, or you found a pro-return in pristine shape already broken in, your very last option is to study Lundy videos for a while and develop his patented catching motion  

Here's a video from one of my mentors that might help out...

 

 

[IpaddyTECH]

17 hours ago, CamWardFan said:

So here's my question. Why are we paying these companies $300 to $700 for a supposedly game ready product that actually is NOT anywhere near game ready?? What other product do you (at best) have to spend hours and hours on and often extra money just to be able to use it??

I think the guy just needs to be heard out a bit. In this tight economy, it is crazy that we have to spend $600 plus just for a glove. For one single glove. And yes, most of them take quite a lot of work to break in. It would absolutely be better service if they came more broken-in. Fair enough. 

Also, this is why I'm a big fan of warrior gloves. I got the 6.1 pro and out of the box is was easily closable, and became nice quick snap-closure-broken-in after 1 game. They are still protective, they are just designed to have more of a foldable, almost hinge like quality to their closure and it's very nice for those wanting next to no break in, or who have small hands (I'm both). Also monster pocket and the most modular strapping out there. Warrior should be paying me haha

Edited February 2 by IpaddyTECH

[ZeroGravitas]

I've been getting pro palms and reinforced tees on my Bauers since Ultrasonic (so four models - US, HL1, Mach, HL2) and never had much of an issue breaking them in. I always put them in a baseball glove steamer - not too hot and for no more than 3 minutes - work it while it's warm and then tying it up at night. Plus the standard working-with-it-while-watching-some-TV. Always works great for me.

Did the same with all my CCMs (EF4, Axis 2, EF5), also ordered with pro palms and it worked great. The 580-break Axis 2 was especially good - it wowed a lot of customers and spawned more than a few custom orders.

I'm surprised you're having issues with Brian's - even their top of the line stuff isn't bad out of the box. The worst of the catchers off-the-shelf are the CCMs.

[coopaloop1234]

16 hours ago, CamWardFan said:

I KNOW that these companies don't give their contract pro and amateur goalies gloves that are stiff as a board.  They've got machines to break those gloves in.  There's no reason for the price we are paying for these gloves that they can't do that for us PAYING customers.  Don't tell me it's too expensive. Figure it out.  You're sending your customers a big money product that is not even usable........

 

1 hour ago, RichMan said:

As mentioned, it quite varies from one brand to another, and even one model to another within the same brand. And then, what we get in stores is nothing like what the pros wear. This is very important to understand. They need something that is usable within 2-3 practices tops so they can then use it in a game. This excludes their practice gloves of course

I'm genuinely curious why you guys believe that Pro's are getting an entirely different product line of gloves?

 

As for the topic at hand, only glove I had an issue with after buying new was my Vaughn SLR. Aside from that I've never encountered any issues with breaking in new gloves. 

RGT, RGT2, CCM 2.9, Mach, G6. 

I know Warrior's are the absolute king for breaking in quickly, but even with my CCM and Mach I had zero issues taking them into game action immediately. I don't do any other break in processes aside from the standard opening and closing. 

 

 

[froese]

15 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

 

I'm genuinely curious why you guys believe that Pro's are getting an entirely different product line of gloves?

 

As for the topic at hand, only glove I had an issue with after buying new was my Vaughn SLR. Aside from that I've never encountered any issues with breaking in new gloves. 

RGT, RGT2, CCM 2.9, Mach, G6. 

I know Warrior's are the absolute king for breaking in quickly, but even with my CCM and Mach I had zero issues taking them into game action immediately. I don't do any other break in processes aside from the standard opening and closing. 

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, ZeroGravitas said:

I've been getting pro palms and reinforced tees on my Bauers since Ultrasonic (so four models - US, HL1, Mach, HL2) and never had much of an issue breaking them in. I always put them in a baseball glove steamer - not too hot and for no more than 3 minutes - work it while it's warm and then tying it up at night. Plus the standard working-with-it-while-watching-some-TV. Always works great for me.

Did the same with all my CCMs (EF4, Axis 2, EF5), also ordered with pro palms and it worked great. The 580-break Axis 2 was especially good - it wowed a lot of customers and spawned more than a few custom orders.

I'm surprised you're having issues with Brian's - even their top of the line stuff isn't bad out of the box. The worst of the catchers off-the-shelf are the CCMs.

Agreed with both of these comments in terms of break in methods, and I also genuinely don't really understand the difficulty of breaking in a glove. I've broken in an eflex 6 580 (pro palm), 581 (game ready) and a l20.2 590 (game ready) just this year, and used all of them successfully after only having for a couple of days. Bake, tie shut, spread open, work it in non stop and then use it. There's no real mystery or secret sauce.

Edited February 2 by froese

[CamWardFan]

On 2/2/2024 at 11:14 AM, RichMan said:

I kinda understand the frustration. It's not like breaking in a baseball glove. You can't oil it since it's not real leather and it's nothing like the Mizuno fabric/nylon gloves since goalie gloves have hard plastics, thick foams and multiple layers, all for your protection.

As mentioned, it quite varies from one brand to another, and even one model to another within the same brand. And then, what we get in stores is nothing like what the pros wear. This is very important to understand. They need something that is usable within 2-3 practices tops so they can then use it in a game. This excludes their practice gloves of course. Us retail mortals have time and flexibility on our side. I'm sure that if you order custom, you could ask the company to "break it in" for you before shipping. I assume it would be the same method as buying one in the store, throwing it in the skate oven for 5-10 minutes and then working it in and then wrapping it with string or cellophane to encourage the closure.

Then comes the topic of individual strength. Yes, it plays a factor in the process. I for instance have a normal sized palm but thin short fingers. Add to that a bad thumb, so my overall grip strength is not strongman worthy. Even if I hit the gym on a regular and lift weights, it's only relevant to my personal capabilities. You could implement hand grip strength exercises and forearm work as well if you wish.

I'm not saying you're weak. It is true that some gloves feel like trash. I can't do shit with a CCM or True on. Bauer isn't any easier. Brian's is ok depending on the model as is with Vaughn. Warrior was the easiest but even then, I had to spend the time working it in and flexing it and taking pucks to it to get a suitable closure for my hand strength and playing demands. Is it perfect? Not really, but it keeps getting better with every drop of sweat it absorbs. Of course, for the most part, when you get to the point where your glove closes as if you're wearing those lovely winter mittens your grandmother knitted for you last Christmas, chances are the palm has broken down or the plastics and/or foams inside have cracked and that's when you start feeling every single shot as if you were facing Webber in the All-Star shootout.

In the end, unless you have good connections at the top, or you've tried one of the methods suggested by myself and others here, or you found a pro-return in pristine shape already broken in, your very last option is to study Lundy videos for a while and develop his patented catching motion  

Here's a video from one of my mentors that might help out...

 

 

 

[CamWardFan]

I understand what you are all saying, but that's really not my point.  I sent that glove to The Goalie Glove Guy in North Dakota, one of the best technicians of gloves in the game, and he told me this thing was the stiffest glove he could remember ever working on.  Also, believe me, I tried every single technique mentioned by all you guys up above, many more than 3 or 4 times, and it still wouldn't open or close completely.

The other thing related to The Goalie Glove Guy is the fact that every day on Instagram he posts gloves coming in to him super stiff and unplayable, from all brands except maybe Warrior, hundreds of gloves a year.  So it's not just me, it's not weak hands, it's not that we are not using all the dozens of break in techniques on YouTube, it's that these gloves are coming to us, the retail customers, in an unplayable condition -- and we are paying top dollar for the privilege!!!

All I am saying is that we should DEMAND, as customers, a product delivered to us in ready to play condition just like any other product. These companies have the means to do it, they just choose NOT TO because they know they can get away with it  -- that we are just going to take it.  So why should they spend the extra time and money to deliver a completely ready to play product????

I'm not upset with any of you who have replied, I'm just mad as hell that every company can't deliver a ready to play glove like Warrior???

[RichMan]

So, Warrior it is then...

[mik]

On 2/2/2024 at 6:33 PM, coopaloop1234 said:

 

I'm genuinely curious why you guys believe that Pro's are getting an entirely different product line of gloves?

 

Not a product line, but quality? In my experience with pro return gloves and comparsion to the serial pro models pro returns were better made - materials, stitching, overall quality - with no problems CamWardFan writes about, usualy. Sometimes I found pro return glove, that is hard to close/break in even after use of pro goalie. But it was due the goalie and how he catches - Gibson comes in my mind or better - Lundqvist (sadly never had his glove). 

Can it have something to do with Canadian made product? I don´t know, but gloves form Lefebvre factory are better than standard True, even when JRZ made gloves for Bauer, that product was not comparable to stock gloves in shop. Not so much in Vaughn but still. Can´t truly say about Brians, as I have expirience with only one pro return glove, realy special. 

But yes, realy BIG downside of pro return gloves can be their customisation, can be far from stock gloves in terms of shapes, closures, palms, inner sizes, reskined models/brands etc. Often dosen´t make sense for "normal" goalie .    

 

 

Edited February 5 by mik

[CamWardFan]

12 hours ago, RichMan said:

So, Warrior it is then...

Yep, went out and replaced both gloves with Warrior 6.1, on super sale.  Both were ready to use out of the box. Learned my lesson.  Selling the Optik3 glove and blocker on Sideline Swap - anybody want them???

[CamWardFan]

8 hours ago, mik said:

Not a product line, but quality? In my experience with pro return gloves and comparsion to the serial pro models pro returns were better made - materials, stitching, overall quality - with no problems CamWardFan writes about, usualy. Sometimes I found pro return glove, that is hard to close/break in even after use of pro goalie. But it was due the goalie and how he catches - Gibson comes in my mind or better - Lundqvist (sadly never had his glove). 

Can it have something to do with Canadian made product? I don´t know, but gloves form Lefebvre factory are better than standard True, even when JRZ made gloves for Bauer, that product was not comparable to stock gloves in shop. Not so much in Vaughn but still. Can´t truly say about Brians, as I have expirience with only one pro return glove, realy special. 

But yes, realy BIG downside of pro return gloves can be their customisation, can be far from stock gloves in terms of shapes, closures, palms, inner sizes, reskined models/brands etc. Often dosen´t make sense for "normal" goalie .    

 

 

The gloves the pros get are definitely closely inspected and broken in by the company before they get sent out. Why can't they just do that for all of us? They are the experts, they have the machines, so why not?   Also, according to The Goalie Glove Guy (again) many retail gloves are laced incorrectly or too tightly, or the padding or break is wrong or in the wrong place,  which is another main reason why gloves are hard to break in.  Doesn't anybody at the factory look at these gloves before they are sent out to check out these things???   Apparently not.  $300 to $700 for a glove and it's not even built right coming out of the factory?? Retail customers deserve better, that's all I'm saying.

[ArdeFIN]

The parts used to build a catcher are actually punched wrong to start with, hole alignment between layers can be nearly an inch off. And as far as I know they don't do any holes with hand tools so it's not "custom" problem.

[RichMan]

11 hours ago, CamWardFan said:

The gloves the pros get are definitely closely inspected and broken in by the company before they get sent out. Why can't they just do that for all of us? They are the experts, they have the machines, so why not?   Also, according to The Goalie Glove Guy (again) many retail gloves are laced incorrectly or too tightly, or the padding or break is wrong or in the wrong place,  which is another main reason why gloves are hard to break in.  Doesn't anybody at the factory look at these gloves before they are sent out to check out these things???   Apparently not.  $300 to $700 for a glove and it's not even built right coming out of the factory?? Retail customers deserve better, that's all I'm saying.

Most of everything is done overseas now. They give them the "Building a glove 101" course and off they go. I'm sure there are random verification but is there an actual QC department? Who knows. After all, once they start building things, it's all about numbers thereafter.

[ThatCarGuy]

From my understanding, the reason warriors gloves are consistently good off the shelf is because the internal plastic/composite plates are actually laced in with the perimeter lacing making it near impossible for them to be assembled wrong. The center plastic piece that breaks free and ruins the breaks on a lot of gloves is sewn into the face of the glove rather than the sheet of foam behind it. According to Pete Smith, Warrior gloves and all of their equipment for that matter are purposely designed to be built easily and consistently overseas. Nothing overly complicated. 

[mik]

19 hours ago, CamWardFan said:

The gloves the pros get are definitely closely inspected and broken in by the company before they get sent out. Why can't they just do that for all of us? They are the experts, they have the machines, so why not?   Also, according to The Goalie Glove Guy (again) many retail gloves are laced incorrectly or too tightly, or the padding or break is wrong or in the wrong place,  which is another main reason why gloves are hard to break in.  Doesn't anybody at the factory look at these gloves before they are sent out to check out these things???   Apparently not.  $300 to $700 for a glove and it's not even built right coming out of the factory?? Retail customers deserve better, that's all I'm saying.

My friend who repairs & reskins gloves (and he is really good at it) says the same - usualy incorrect lacing and inner material at wrong place or bad plastics pieces, not problem with design of the glove but poor assembly.

7 hours ago, RichMan said:

Most of everything is done overseas now. They give them the "Building a glove 101" course and off they go. I'm sure there are random verification but is there an actual QC department? Who knows. After all, once they start building things, it's all about numbers thereafter.

I don’t think there is QC in terms of person who looks at every single piece of gear & knows how it should or shouldn’t look. As you say, it is about numbers…

[Puckstopper]

21 hours ago, CamWardFan said:

The gloves the pros get are definitely closely inspected and broken in by the company before they get sent out. Why can't they just do that for all of us? They are the experts, they have the machines, so why not?   Also, according to The Goalie Glove Guy (again) many retail gloves are laced incorrectly or too tightly, or the padding or break is wrong or in the wrong place,  which is another main reason why gloves are hard to break in.  Doesn't anybody at the factory look at these gloves before they are sent out to check out these things???   Apparently not.  $300 to $700 for a glove and it's not even built right coming out of the factory?? Retail customers deserve better, that's all I'm saying.

This is why I'll always buy in person or order custom.  Unusually the guy building custom orders is a little more experienced than the guy building retail orders.  After all, the new guy has to learn somewhere, right?

I know you don't want to hear this, but it comes down to cost.   These are handmade products and it takes time and training to learn the craft of doing it properly. 

• Time and training cost money. 
• Retention of staff you've invested in training costs money. 
• Failing to retain those staff members and starting the cycle over costs more money.

Adding cost to a product that you already charge more for due to low volume of sales and relatively high complexity to manufacture is a non-starter.   Unfortunately, there's just no world where every glove can be 100% "pro quality" perfect.  As mentioned earlier, there's the experience of the builder, and for every glove to get the pro treatment on the break-in machine you'd either have to increase both staff and machines, or push out lead times.  Neither of these options are palatable.   Small companies like Vaughn and Brian's would be gone, and CCM/Bauer would look for cost savings by reducing the number of lines offered.   The other option would be to increase retail price further, and you're not alone in feeling like those costs are already unreasonable.

Honestly, I do think a lot of these companies lost valuable employees both in the manufacturing and management spaces during COVID.  The pro level gloves I saw on the shelf pre-COVID were really starting to show improvements in consistency and feel right out of the box.   I went to a couple stores last weekend and almost everything on the shelf felt worse than expected.  So I do feel your pain to a degree and sympathize that you got a glove from an extreme end of the bell curve.  But honestly, that's what I think happened here.  You got the worst one that came out of the factory that month and it sucks.   

[xmikex32]

22 hours ago, CamWardFan said:

Yep, went out and replaced both gloves with Warrior 6.1, on super sale.  Both were ready to use out of the box. Learned my lesson.  Selling the Optik3 glove and blocker on Sideline Swap - anybody want them???

link?

[IpaddyTECH]

8 hours ago, ThatCarGuy said:

From my understanding, the reason warriors gloves are consistently good off the shelf is because the internal plastic/composite plates are actually laced in with the perimeter lacing making it near impossible for them to be assembled wrong. The center plastic piece that breaks free and ruins the breaks on a lot of gloves is sewn into the face of the glove rather than the sheet of foam behind it. According to Pete Smith, Warrior gloves and all of their equipment for that matter are purposely designed to be built easily and consistently overseas. Nothing overly complicated. 

Just when I couldn't love warrior gloves any better. Also the bindingless perimeter prevents the perimeter lace wear issues. 

[keeperton]

20 hours ago, IpaddyTECH said:

Just when I couldn't love warrior gloves any better. Also the bindingless perimeter prevents the perimeter lace wear issues. 

I was seeing back on G4 and G5 gloves where the binding would come apart due to wear. Was that fixed on the G6?

[IpaddyTECH]

4 hours ago, keeperton said:

I was seeing back on G4 and G5 gloves where the binding would come apart due to wear. Was that fixed on the G6?

The used ones on SLS look good to me but I can see something like that happening over time. I've only just had mine this season so we'll see. 

[coopaloop1234]

6 hours ago, keeperton said:

I was seeing back on G4 and G5 gloves where the binding would come apart due to wear. Was that fixed on the G6?

1 hour ago, IpaddyTECH said:

The used ones on SLS look good to me but I can see something like that happening over time. I've only just had mine this season so we'll see. 

https://www.thegoalnet.com/forums/topic/7492-fs-warrior-gt2-pro-set-3315/

I'd be curious to see what binding you guys are referring to. This was my GT2 set after 2.5 years of beer league (2-3x a week). 

My GT set was about the same too. 

The binding on the backhand of the G6 isn't too different either, but I still never saw that as an issue. 

 

[keeperton]

3 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

https://www.thegoalnet.com/forums/topic/7492-fs-warrior-gt2-pro-set-3315/

I'd be curious to see what binding you guys are referring to. This was my GT2 set after 2.5 years of beer league (2-3x a week). 

My GT set was about the same too. 

The binding on the backhand of the G6 isn't too different either, but I still never saw that as an issue. 

 

The edge of the fingers is what I'm referring to.

[coopaloop1234]

24 minutes ago, keeperton said:

The edge of the fingers is what I'm referring to.

I still can't figure out which area you're referring to lol. 

The only durability issue I had with my GT sets was the blocker face on my GT1 Senior cracking near the end of my time with it. My GT2 set was already on order. 

My GT2 set faced better shooters and more ice time. So take this information however you will.