PadsTracker 2013 - 10 years later, where are we at?

[ZeroGravitas]

Was using Google Image Search to try to get some Bauer Digiprint ideas and came across this.

Makes me wonder - where are we at now 10 years later?

My guess:

The number of goalies that were CCM/Reebok are now all True.
The number of goalies that were Vaughn are now Bauer, maybe a little less.
The number of goalies that were Bauer are split now between Vaughn and CCM.
The number of Brians goalies is pretty similar.
Obviously no Warrior and no Koho (goodbye Jonas Hiller).

Edited February 2 by ZeroGravitas

[coopaloop1234]

Really shows Vaughn's fall from grace. This was what, 2 years before the 1S entered the show? 

https://www.geargeek.com/position/goalie/pads 

Not sure if this webpage is accurate or not, but let's pretend it is. 

True: 33
Bauer: 19
Vaughn: 12
CCM: 5
Brians: 4

True obviously took all the CCM guys and then some. Even some Bauer and Vaughn guys switched eventually (korpisalo/Merzlerkin). 

But the trend to move over to stiffer pads is apparent. Hell, even the Bauer in the graphic you used is their reactor line and not the Supreme. 

 

[ZeroGravitas]

I'm gonna guess that's pretty accurate - or at least up-to-date - since they're listing the Hazardous pads.

Looks like my guess was pretty accurate!

I wonder what's more demoralizing for a company - the damn-near-overnight jump of CCM goalies to True, or the slow bleed-out of Vaughn to other brands.

Edited February 2 by ZeroGravitas

[coopaloop1234]

33 minutes ago, ZeroGravitas said:

I'm gonna guess that's pretty accurate - or at least up-to-date - since they're listing the Hazardous pads.

Looks like my guess was pretty accurate!

I wonder what's more demoralizing for a company - the damn-near-overnight jump of CCM goalies to True, or the slow bleed-out of Vaughn to other brands.

I'd vote being Vaughn. Seeing one of the most prolific brands in hockey slowly wane away has got to be frustrating. 

At least with CCM it was a quick break due to a singular factor. They get to essentially start fresh and figure out what they want to provide. Vaughn is chasing trends. 

[keeperton]

2 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Really shows Vaughn's fall from grace. This was what, 2 years before the 1S entered the show? 

https://www.geargeek.com/position/goalie/pads 

Not sure if this webpage is accurate or not, but let's pretend it is. 

True: 33
Bauer: 19
Vaughn: 12
CCM: 5
Brians: 4

True obviously took all the CCM guys and then some. Even some Bauer and Vaughn guys switched eventually (korpisalo/Merzlerkin). 

But the trend to move over to stiffer pads is apparent. Hell, even the Bauer in the graphic you used is their reactor line and not the Supreme. 

 

I'm going to spot check this really quick to say it's mostly accurate except:

• No one is in the G-Netik Pro (they have Shesterkin listed there, he's in Optik 2s)
• Bauer is relatively misrepresented in build/construction (imo) given how many NHL goalies are in Ultrasonics and not Machs (still Supremes though)
  • Likewise with the Hyperlite 2, I know some of those guys are in some other construction
  • Additional note to give Bauer kudos for allowing anyone to order any of these builds (for the most part) at this point, their customizer is really solid now
• Kudos to this website for tracking Korpisalo's glove change recently, I just managed to figure out what he was in two days ago (after seeing he went from a True to a Vaughn glove)
  • Would be good if they also noted the Velocity and Velocity XP guys (Kahkonen is in the V10 Pro Carbon XP)
• No notes on the goalies using the 2-piece Bauer blocker, should probably be its own thing

Anyway, pretty accurate overall!

 

I think Vaughn has been doing a "better" job starting at the V9s. They definitely lost some favor around the SLR1 and V8 lines, but have really started putting out gear with design principles finding their audience since.

Edit: I think CCM has started doing a little better since the Eflex6 as well. I think the Axis 2 was a step in the right direction, the XF looks a bit better. I have noticed some goalies having questionable seals on their thigh rises (this waived off goal on Rittich looks a lot like a pad seal failure to me, the behind camera shows it pretty well) though.

Edited February 3 by keeperton

[ThomasRedden]

I mean not the best opinion given i'm just a goalie paying for my high school team. and i'm not even in Vaughn's right now (minus my catcher). but having gotten my hands on some Vaughn pads, i don't get why they're so underused in the NHL. aside from basically being the most traditional brand in a no longer traditional play-style NHL. and even then what most goalies are getting are the stiff modern style pad, even the v10 pads are stiff and semi modern. maybe i'm a Vaughn suck-up, but i just don't see why they are not that popular anymore. 

[A.YOUNGoalie13]

Whoever was running the padstracker site needs to make a comeback or goaliegearnerd needs to update the spreadsheet they have on their site. Hasn’t been updated in years

[coopaloop1234]

15 hours ago, ThomasRedden said:

I mean not the best opinion given i'm just a goalie paying for my high school team. and i'm not even in Vaughn's right now (minus my catcher). but having gotten my hands on some Vaughn pads, i don't get why they're so underused in the NHL. aside from basically being the most traditional brand in a no longer traditional play-style NHL. and even then what most goalies are getting are the stiff modern style pad, even the v10 pads are stiff and semi modern. maybe i'm a Vaughn suck-up, but i just don't see why they are not that popular anymore. 

There's a lot to this question that goes over a large period of time in goalie gear. 

There's an entire case study that can be done in regards to how Vaughn came in with the infamous V1's and how that changed the landscape of goalie gear to the point we're at now. 

But, to put it succinctly: Vaughn was caught resting on their laurels after taking over the market with the V1's. They got complacent and other brands brought more enticing types of gear than what Vaughn was offering. 

[keeperton]

8 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

There's a lot to this question that goes over a large period of time in goalie gear. 

There's an entire case study that can be done in regards to how Vaughn came in with the infamous V1's and how that changed the landscape of goalie gear to the point we're at now. 

But, to put it succinctly: Vaughn was caught resting on their laurels after taking over the market with the V1's. They got complacent and other brands brought more enticing types of gear than what Vaughn was offering. 

You could break this into huge chapters, even.

I mostly agree, though. Vaughn stuck to their guns and aimed to please their main professional clientele instead of grow their base, then lost touch with pushing the bounds. They have fully caught up, in my opinion, but need to rebuild that base/trust.

30 minutes ago, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

Whoever was running the padstracker site needs to make a comeback or goaliegearnerd needs to update the spreadsheet they have on their site. Hasn’t been updated in years

Sounds like my time to shine, if I were slightly less lazy about it. The current Padstracker site is pretty up-to-date since the Korpisalo glove change was rather recent.

[coopaloop1234]

5 minutes ago, keeperton said:

I mostly agree, though. Vaughn stuck to their guns and aimed to please their main professional clientele instead of grow their base, then lost touch with pushing the bounds. They have fully caught up, in my opinion, but need to rebuild that base/trust.

And I agree with this too. 

Biggest issue with Vaughn right now is that they need to offer something unique that will draw new clientele over. Because they've been chasing for so long, what they're offering is nothing different than what is already out there and people won't just switch. 

CCM had two stages of getting people invested. RBK P1 was the first really popular stiff pad and that was unique and offered a new style of play.

Then came the Eflex line that blended the Premier with a softer profile from Vaughn. This was a huge line when it released as is drew people in from Vaughn and Bauer as it was an evolution to the pads they were currently using. 

Then Bauer changed the landscape again with the Od1n line and it's effects from the 1S are still seen today. Super fast sliding, stiff core, hot rebounds, etc. 

The Lefevre/True revolution isn't something I'm putting too much market influence on. That one felt more like a popularity contest than anything. Their market offerings are still good and within expectations. But they're not really driving the industry forward. (IMO). 

I'm summarizing greatly with the above, but these are kind of the key notes for brand popularity that I've witnessed over my time I've actually been paying close attention. 

[keeperton]

1 hour ago, coopaloop1234 said:

And I agree with this too. 

Biggest issue with Vaughn right now is that they need to offer something unique that will draw new clientele over. Because they've been chasing for so long, what they're offering is nothing different than what is already out there and people won't just switch. 

CCM had two stages of getting people invested. RBK P1 was the first really popular stiff pad and that was unique and offered a new style of play.

Then came the Eflex line that blended the Premier with a softer profile from Vaughn. This was a huge line when it released as is drew people in from Vaughn and Bauer as it was an evolution to the pads they were currently using. 

Then Bauer changed the landscape again with the Od1n line and it's effects from the 1S are still seen today. Super fast sliding, stiff core, hot rebounds, etc. 

The Lefevre/True revolution isn't something I'm putting too much market influence on. That one felt more like a popularity contest than anything. Their market offerings are still good and within expectations. But they're not really driving the industry forward. (IMO). 

I'm summarizing greatly with the above, but these are kind of the key notes for brand popularity that I've witnessed over my time I've actually been paying close attention. 

I think with True what they've really done is completely dialed in some of the minutia within a pad that some desired, and others didn't realize they desired. Namely: the strapping (thus, feel), the boot of the pad sitting way on top of the skate, and pad seal in conjunction with the incredibly stiff thigh.

Vaughn now has offerings that are great amalgamations of other big industry items: primo/quickslide, a foam-integrated, great pad seal, modular strapping a la True FRS but with more options, and a few other small things. I think where Vaughn shines most are their gloves lately: their catchers feel great (the XP is a great 590, the 70 is neat, and the classic Velocity 5500 glove is killer), their blockers are great and the trigger finger on the index is a wonderful consistent touch. They've just got to build some consumer traction to get going at this point imo.

[MTH]

Company wise - pro goalies in your gear or kids across the globe using your gear?

What's a bigger deal?

[coopaloop1234]

16 hours ago, keeperton said:

I think with True what they've really done is completely dialed in some of the minutia within a pad that some desired, and others didn't realize they desired. Namely: the strapping (thus, feel), the boot of the pad sitting way on top of the skate, and pad seal in conjunction with the incredibly stiff thigh.

Yea, I see True's pad offerings as a refinement of the current trends and their pads are designed well and work. I'm wanting to reference big shifts in brand popularity in terms of how gear evolves and, despite True just exploding with Pros/Amateurs, it's not because they're offering anything new to the market that has drastically shifted customer expectations/desires. It really is a legacy coup due to the designer name. 

True's popularity is the Stanley cups of the goalie world.  

Plus their gloves are still antiquated.

34 minutes ago, MTH said:

Company wise - pro goalies in your gear or kids across the globe using your gear?

What's a bigger deal?

Pro's. Pro's wearing your gear has a much bigger market influence than seeing what your buddies are wearing. Especially as adoption rates are heavily tied to NHL presence. 

Once you get kids in your gear for a long enough time, it's difficult for them to "stray" to other brands unless there's a large market shift like I mentioned above. 

Plus, how often do you see kids snuff Warrior gear solely because there's no NHL presence? 

Edited February 6 by coopaloop1234

[keeperton]

5 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Once you get kids in your gear for a long enough time, it's difficult for them to "stray" to other brands unless there's a large market shift like I mentioned above. 

Plus, how often do you see kids snuff Warrior gear solely because there's no NHL presence? 

Kids? Hell, I see that on this website, GGSU, Instagram, etc. People love crapping on Warrior gear when it doesn't deserve it at all.

[coopaloop1234]

6 minutes ago, keeperton said:

Kids? Hell, I see that on this website, GGSU, Instagram, etc. People love crapping on Warrior gear when it doesn't deserve it at all.

Just think of it as a 'filter' of sorts. 

[MTH]

9 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Plus, how often do you see kids snuff Warrior gear solely because there's no NHL presence? 

I'm curious how many youth goalies even watch the NHL or have an idea who wears what. Current gear is so bland and guys change their gear almost monthly.

[A.YOUNGoalie13]

3 hours ago, MTH said:

I'm curious how many youth goalies even watch the NHL or have an idea who wears what. Current gear is so bland and guys change their gear almost monthly.

Also probably doesn’t help that with social media and such, its now out there that almost no nhl goalies actually wear whatever pad that matches their graphic. Even younger kids are now aware they can’t actually have what their favorite goalie has. Now that said, plenty of people don’t care and just want the same graphic as their idol and so on. For me though, I was never able to have exactly the same gear as any of my idols, whether it was a 580 with Hiller, or Quick’s super soft leg pads. And even now, no Bauer goalies use the newest stuff. We talk all the time about how they all still use ultra sonic gloves and 2s pad flex. Hell, Askarov’s gloves are eflex 4 clones. With it being so difficult to get what nhlers actually have now, I seems super pointless for companies to worry about pushing pros as an advertisement.

[jerd31]

Anecdotal, but many of my beer league games take place after kids practicing and the young goalies predominantly wear Bauer and CCM.  Even in beer league, it's dominated by those two, with the occasional Warrior and Brian's.  I don't think I've seen any True at my rink at any level.  

[ilyazhito]

1 hour ago, jerd31 said:

Anecdotal, but many of my beer league games take place after kids practicing and the young goalies predominantly wear Bauer and CCM.  Even in beer league, it's dominated by those two, with the occasional Warrior and Brian's.  I don't think I've seen any True at my rink at any level.  

Warrior is pretty common for beer league goalies in my area. I've seen one goalie with CCM pads, one with Kenesky, and a few with Bauer, including myself. I've seen one or two goalies locally with Brian's pads, but none in Hockey North America. The young guys often wear Bauer or CCM, with the occasional Vaughn or Brian's pad. 

[coopaloop1234]

1 hour ago, jerd31 said:

Anecdotal, but many of my beer league games take place after kids practicing and the young goalies predominantly wear Bauer and CCM.  Even in beer league, it's dominated by those two, with the occasional Warrior and Brian's.  I don't think I've seen any True at my rink at any level.  

5 minutes ago, ilyazhito said:

Warrior is pretty common for beer league goalies in my area. I've seen one goalie with CCM pads, one with Kenesky, and a few with Bauer, including myself. I've seen one or two goalies locally with Brian's pads, but none in Hockey North America. The young guys often wear Bauer or CCM, with the occasional Vaughn or Brian's pad. 

CCM
Vaughn
Bauer/True
Warrior
Brians. 

That's usually the popularity ladder I see at Beer league games. This also differs depending on the divisions I'll play. 

Higher divs will see an influx of Bauer and True pads. 

Lower divs will see more Vaughn and Warrior. 

[A.YOUNGoalie13]

56 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

CCM
Vaughn
Bauer/True
Warrior
Brians. 

That's usually the popularity ladder I see at Beer league games. This also differs depending on the divisions I'll play. 

Higher divs will see an influx of Bauer and True pads. 

Lower divs will see more Vaughn and Warrior. 

Oddly enough in the Chicago suburbs it almost seems backwards. I’ve noticed this:

Brians

CCM

Vaughn

Bauer

Small companies like Factory Mad, etc

Warrior

True

[coopaloop1234]

14 hours ago, MTH said:

I'm curious how many youth goalies even watch the NHL or have an idea who wears what. Current gear is so bland and guys change their gear almost monthly.

3 minutes ago, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

Oddly enough in the Chicago suburbs it almost seems backwards. I’ve noticed this:

Brians

CCM

Vaughn

Bauer

Small companies like Factory Mad, etc

Warrior

True

See? Kids snuff Warrior lol. 

[A.YOUNGoalie13]

4 hours ago, coopaloop1234 said:

See? Kids snuff Warrior lol. 

Simply my objective observation of mens leagues here. For the kids, it depends heavily on the age group.

[coopaloop1234]

3 minutes ago, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

Simply my objective observation of mens leagues here. For the kids, it depends heavily on the age group.

Are you old enough to qualify for men's league? 

[A.YOUNGoalie13]

48 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

Are you old enough to qualify for men's league? 

How’s turning 20 in April for qualification?

And I only ever play forward in mens league, perfect for observing lots of gear when I’m jamming annoyingly at rebounds