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VH Two Piece Skate Review


sebastiancp1

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By now, I'm sure most of you have read a VH skate review, but I figured I would add another in case my experience helps someone else out.

Background - I've had a pair of CCM Vector 10s with Step Steel custom contoured by No Icing Sports for about 10 years now and they served their purpose well.  For reference I wore an 8.5EE in those and there were definitely some pains and sore spots breaking them in.  I've got a wide bride of my foot with a pretty pronounced knuckles lower arches so my feet really don't do well with traditional shoes/skates.  Not too long ago I swapped out the CCM cowling for a Bauer Vertexx to move toward something with a better attack angle.  The pushes were noticeable better, however I really did not like the extreme forward pitch.  In the past few months, by the end of each skate my feet would be killing me in multiple sports and I figured it was time to bite the bullet and shop around for new skates.

I've really only had success with CCM boots so as much as the 1S interested me, I knew the boot wouldn't fit my foot the way I wanted.  I was hesitant about the RBZ CCM's given the problem with the cowling and cracking.  Finally, I figured if I'm going to shell out that much for a retail skate I might as well go custom VHs.  In doing research I settled on the two piece boot because I felt it might be a bit more durable in the long run and also if I hated the height/pitch of the VH/Step holder, I could swap that out.

Initially my plan to was to do the tracings and send it in to order, but as luck would have it, I was scheduled to travel to Toronto in early February for work.  I made an appointment with the guys at The Skating Lab in Toronto to get the scan done and fill out the paperwork.  Jeff was excellent to work with and he shared some nice gear stories from the guys he's worked with.  Most interest story was how Bernier had to drop from 1/2" hollow to 1" hollow on his VHs.  He said Bernier felt so much more in control with his one-piece VHs that he just didn't need the extra bite.

The fitting/scanning process took about a half hour as he took multiple pictures AND did the tracings just to ensure VH had all the measurements they needed.  I opted for the two-piece with the tan clarino liner with no added colors or numbers/letter and the standard removable tongue (I was really hesitant about a removable tongue but it's amazing). 

I was supposed to be back in Toronto in May for work, but my scheduled changes and thankfully Jeff was able to help me work out a solution and get my skates last week.

Initial Impressions (prior to first skate) - A few things stuck out right away when I received the skates.  The weight.  The really felt a good bit lighter than my CCMs however I have no way of knowing if that's really true.  The height of the holder.  Man, it's tall.  The boot/wrap.  Prior to heating I could barely get my foot in them because of how small the opening is for your foot.  I stopped down to my local Perani's to get them heat fit and as soon as I put them on it hit me -- these things are amazing.  The instantly felt 1,000 times better than any skate I've worn.  After the boot cooled I went a couple days and tried them on again to see if there were any spots that needed adjustment.  The fit felt great except it felt a little snug, top to bottom, in the toe box.  This is where the amazing adjustable tongue comes in.  I move it up a few inches and the pressure was gone.

Post skate impressions - These things are legit.  I know there's a lot of "hype" around these and I was definitely expecting them to be somewhat of a let down, but man these are awesome.  I think the best way to describe them is they do exactly what your feet tell them too.  The responsiveness is excellent.  I'm still working on lacing adjustments (too loose to start), but even still my feet feel fine by the end of a skate.  I think it's also worth considering going to a shallower hallow (I went from 1/2 to 3/4) just because of the extreme control you get from the boot.  I did also switch to a stick with an extra inch on the paddle to offset the height which I think was a good call.  It should also be noted that the attack angle is definitely all it's cracked up to be as well as the strength and ease of pushes.  I am not a big RVH guy as I just don't have time to practice it as I'd like to, but I do play from my knees a decent bit. Because of this the cowlingless skate has really helped my play.  I was a bit skeptical hearing such great things, but it really does make a difference. It is immediately noticeable how much lower you can keep your knee to the ice and still have a strong push.  In addition to the better angle, the strength of my pushes was noticeably better.  Overall, this really does feel like a gear enhancement that translate to tangible results on the ice.  To summarize, your feet do exactly what you tell them to in these skates. 

Wrap-up - I can't recommend these skates enough.  I know the cost is high, but the fit was 100% on point and the performance is there to match.  If you're looking at moving to the new style skate, I think this skate is worth every cent.  I think it's also import to note some items about the finish of the skates.  These are handmade skates and as such there are certain cosmetic "blemishes" that may put some people off.  I've seen people complain about pay a lot of money for a skate that doesn't look perfect.  I get that.  However to me, this didn't make and it was a sign someone actually put their hands on these and made them for my feet.  I've included a pics of this below (pic 3).  I do believe these are 100% cosmetic, but I wanted to make sure I pointed it out.  Please let me know if anyone has any questions!

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

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Do you find taking them off to be pretty difficult? I stopped in at their listed address in Winnipeg last week, turns out it is a shared storefront with the main occupant being a guy that does custom sharpening, VH is by appointment only. I was still able to try on some pro returns (mostly just player skates), there was actually a pair that fit me pretty good which is surprising given my wide feet. The thing that really surprised me though is the extreme pain that was inflicted taking them off, unlike any foot pain I've experienced. I'm not sure if that is something that is less an issue when they are actually molded for your feet or not, I assume not given that they are so form fitting in the ankle that it is just tough getting the foot beyond that area.

Being tight in the toe box was another thing I noticed, as you observed. I sent an email out to see if they are able to build them taller to accomodate adhesive heat packs on the toes. Hopefully I hear back from them. My plan b was trying some CCM Ribcor, those didn't pan out (way too narrow). I tried the new Bauer Vapor line and I thought they felt amazing, the only caveat being the arch is way off for me. Their mid range boot and orthotics would basically end up being as much as a pair of VH anyway, so I'm hoping I can just go the VH route for a perfect fit.

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Those are airbubbles in the outer epoxy, or clear coat, if you will. Nothing to be concerned with. Don't confuse these with voids in the composite, as I would be almost 100% certain that they don't use a wet lay up. But it looks like they do finish with a layer or two of epoxy on top of the composite. Epoxy finish doesn't always look perfect, and to rid the bubbles would make your skates cost even more. 

To answer the question about the painful exit- once the skate is heat moulded, it is less apparent and as you wear the skate more and more, you won't feel any at all. The skate does loosen up after awhile, but not to the point of being sloppy. Even entering the skate gets easier, though I admit I am getting minor lacebite if I don't have the tongue in "just right". 

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1 hour ago, bunnyman666 said:

Those are airbubbles in the outer epoxy, or clear coat, if you will. Nothing to be concerned with. Don't confuse these with voids in the composite, as I would be almost 100% certain that they don't use a wet lay up. But it looks like they do finish with a layer or two of epoxy on top of the composite. Epoxy finish doesn't always look perfect, and to rid the bubbles would make your skates cost even more. 

To answer the question about the painful exit- once the skate is heat moulded, it is less apparent and as you wear the skate more and more, you won't feel any at all. The skate does loosen up after awhile, but not to the point of being sloppy. Even entering the skate gets easier, though I admit I am getting minor lacebite if I don't have the tongue in "just right". 

Do you have a pair your self bunny? 

I got a pair of the ccm rbz for the past season picked them up for like 200 USD. and they felt AMAZING coming from a bauer s170 which felt horrible beneath my feet. like actually pain every time i stepped on the ice for the soles of my feet.

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1 hour ago, MadsM said:

Do you have a pair your self bunny? 

I got a pair of the ccm rbz for the past season picked them up for like 200 USD. and they felt AMAZING coming from a bauer s170 which felt horrible beneath my feet. like actually pain every time i stepped on the ice for the soles of my feet.

Yes I do!

It kills me that in the age of heat moulding that people can still have problems with skates! With as many feet as there are out there, it just shows that there is a certain individual foot that a particular model has in mind. Some are good in a Bauer Supreme, others in a Tacks skate. 

The best fit for me (on a stock skate) was the Reebok boot as it had a wide forefoot and you could pump up the heel lock. Now, the Ribcore fits narrower. 

I think back to the old leather Bauers of my youth and you just ended up having it mould to your foot; no pressure points, no pain, until the boot broken down, that is!

I am convinced now that the VH is the only way to fly if your feet do not fit the 3 or so fit profiles that are covered by the lines by the big hockey suppliers.

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24 minutes ago, bunnyman666 said:

Yes I do!

It kills me that in the age of heat moulding that people can still have problems with skates! With as many feet as there are out there, it just shows that there is a certain individual foot that a particular model has in mind. Some are good in a Bauer Supreme, others in a Tacks skate. 

The best fit for me (on a stock skate) was the Reebok boot as it had a wide forefoot and you could pump up the heel lock. Now, the Ribcore fits narrower. 

I think back to the old leather Bauers of my youth and you just ended up having it mould to your foot; no pressure points, no pain, until the boot broken down, that is!

I am convinced now that the VH is the only way to fly if your feet do not fit the 3 or so fit profiles that are covered by the lines by the big hockey suppliers.

That is what kinda blows my mind about retail skates... 

So engineers or product designers spend a bunch of time thinking "what type of players wants a Model X skate?". Once they have identified that, they move onto "how can we change the product design of Model X to benefit that player?".

However, as all major OEMs have 2-3 retail lines, each skate is locked into a fit profile. It sort of makes the whole engineering story silly beyond marketing purposes. If there is truly a tangible benefit to a goalie wearing a Model X boot instead of a Model Y, but the goalie only fits into a Model Y... 

Doen't it make the whole thing pointless?  

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I was impressed with how quickly I got a response from VH via email. Sadly, more room in the toe isn't a request they can accommodate. Looks like it'll have to be x900 and some custom insoles. 

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21 hours ago, Nova said:

Do you find taking them off to be pretty difficult? I stopped in at their listed address in Winnipeg last week, turns out it is a shared storefront with the main occupant being a guy that does custom sharpening, VH is by appointment only. I was still able to try on some pro returns (mostly just player skates), there was actually a pair that fit me pretty good which is surprising given my wide feet. The thing that really surprised me though is the extreme pain that was inflicted taking them off, unlike any foot pain I've experienced. I'm not sure if that is something that is less an issue when they are actually molded for your feet or not, I assume not given that they are so form fitting in the ankle that it is just tough getting the foot beyond that area.

Being tight in the toe box was another thing I noticed, as you observed. I sent an email out to see if they are able to build them taller to accomodate adhesive heat packs on the toes. Hopefully I hear back from them. My plan b was trying some CCM Ribcor, those didn't pan out (way too narrow). I tried the new Bauer Vapor line and I thought they felt amazing, the only caveat being the arch is way off for me. Their mid range boot and orthotics would basically end up being as much as a pair of VH anyway, so I'm hoping I can just go the VH route for a perfect fit.

Prior to heat mold, they were impossible to get on so I couldn't even tell you if they were hard to take off!  Those skates were made for someone else so I'm not surprised they were uncomfortable.  VH even says to not put on skates that haven't been heat molded.  Post heating, they are tough to get on, but if you take the laces out multiple eyelets it's not much of an issues.  Taking them off is fine now especially if you watch VH's video on how to take on and off.

I have a wide & fat bridge of my foot with a huge knuckle on each of my big toe's and I've got no issues with the fit.

Regarding the toe box, one other item to consider is that the skates come with two foot beds for adjust-ability.  Removing one would certainly help a bit, although probably not enough for toe warmers.  

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1 hour ago, sebastiancp1 said:

Regarding the toe box, one other item to consider is that the skates come with two foot beds for adjust-ability.  Removing one would certainly help a bit, although probably not enough for toe warmers.  

That was kind of what I figured. If they said they could do an extra 1/4" it would have been much less a gamble. But to shell out $900 without knowing for sure, I just can't take that risk. It probably seems absurd to say, but I'll take slightly sore feet over frozen toes and even in the warmest of rinks my toes will become uncomfortable if I don't wear the warmers. -30c on natural ice would be absolute torture.

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5 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

That is what kinda blows my mind about retail skates... 

So engineers or product designers spend a bunch of time thinking "what type of players wants a Model X skate?". Once they have identified that, they move onto "how can we change the product design of Model X to benefit that player?".

However, as all major OEMs have 2-3 retail lines, each skate is locked into a fit profile. It sort of makes the whole engineering story silly beyond marketing purposes. If there is truly a tangible benefit to a goalie wearing a Model X boot instead of a Model Y, but the goalie only fits into a Model Y... 

Doen't it make the whole thing pointless?  

Indeed, it does! 

Back in the old days, Graf had several lines for several fit types. It did drive dealers crazy, as there were so many skates to keep in stock; but if you were well-educated, you knew what to put a person into with your measurements and assessment of what type of foot you have.  Now adays, yes there are distinct  fit profiles, but you may have an easier time winning the lottery than finding a skate that fits well with no pains. 

I think the VH model may end up changing the landscape for upper-end skates. Why would I buy a custom Bauer for a considerable upcharge when I could have a VH?

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5 hours ago, Nova said:

I was impressed with how quickly I got a response from VH via email. Sadly, more room in the toe isn't a request they can accommodate. Looks like it'll have to be x900 and some custom insoles. 

They cleaned up their act and that's GREAT!!!

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  • 1 month later...
1 hour ago, netminder said:

So VH ignores the toe width of a foot tracing and goes "stock" toe box size? You get what they give you for fit in this area because stock toe box is one size fits all availability only? How the heck can they advertise and all custom goal skate then?  

It's my understanding that VH uses some stock components within the skates. Things like the tendon guard on player skates or the toe boxes are ordered from the outside because they are molded plastic.

In the scheme of manufacturing, VH is a small company. They don't currently have the resources available to them of a dedicated high tool room, rapid protyping, in house injection molding, etc.

This is 100% normal though and should not alarm anyone. Even large companies, like GM as example, farm out nearly all of their molded plastic pieces. The dashboard in your car was made by someone else and sent to GM for finally assembly.

The rationale is to let the tooling experts do the molded parts. The same company making VH parts could also make plastic parts for cars, kitchen utentizes, Itech widow maker, and/or iPhone cases. 

Most of the work done at VH is by hand and with wooden patterns. 

Although it probably doesn't effect too many customers, I'd agree 1 size toe box seems short sighted for a truely made to measure skate. Having something like narrow, medium, and wide in the future would be great. 

With all said, this is definitely the type of thing that the resources of True Temper could do to further enchance VH and expand the reputation they've built.  

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In regards to the purchase by True - I hope that they spend the money on a Mold for a real goalie runner holder ASAP. Only then will I consider spending this kind of money on a skate for my son. 

 

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2 hours ago, Big2 said:

In regards to the purchase by True - I hope that they spend the money on a Mold for a real goalie runner holder ASAP. Only then will I consider spending this kind of money on a skate for my son. 

 

@bunnyman666 has shared that concern too and it's not one I have 

As long as its goalie shaped steel and the holder is a proper height, why does it matter if it was engineered for goalies only or accommodate both runners? (Not rhetorical, I'd like to understand the concerns around it)

I know Cody Porter, WHL, changed to a black Step set up on his 1S because he didn't like the Vertexx Edge. Said he hated the 3MM runner on the Vertexx 

 

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TGN I am not sure this holder was developed for goalie skates. It is a player skate holder and is also meant to hold a 3mm blade that is why the step steel blade is 3mm in the section that goes into the holder and then fans out to 4mm.

Also this is actually a holder that Step had developed not sure why but there are pictures to that effect. And if I am not mistaken it might also be slightly higher than the 1s runner I believe some had documented this on another forum.

Furthermore if you look at their player skates it's the same holder as the one for their two piece goalie skate!

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5 hours ago, TheGoalNet said:

@bunnyman666 has shared that concern too and it's not one I have 

As long as its goalie shaped steel and the holder is a proper height, why does it matter if it was engineered for goalies only or accommodate both runners? (Not rhetorical, I'd like to understand the concerns around it)

I know Cody Porter, WHL, changed to a black Step set up on his 1S because he didn't like the Vertexx Edge. Said he hated the 3MM runner on the Vertexx 

 

My main concern actually is that there can be dangers going cowlingless. After that close call on the ball of my foot, I am NOT sold on cowlingless as they are being produced. That being said, I hope that cowlingless skates keep getting better as I loved the attack angle. 

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8 hours ago, Big2 said:

In regards to the purchase by True - I hope that they spend the money on a Mold for a real goalie runner holder ASAP. Only then will I consider spending this kind of money on a skate for my son. 

 

You can spec it with the Bauer holder. Just ask.

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1 hour ago, Big2 said:

TGN I am not sure this holder was developed for goalie skates. It is a player skate holder and is also meant to hold a 3mm blade that is why the step steel blade is 3mm in the section that goes into the holder and then fans out to 4mm.

Also this is actually a holder that Step had developed not sure why but there are pictures to that effect. And if I am not mistaken it might also be slightly higher than the 1s runner I believe some had documented this on another forum.

Furthermore if you look at their player skates it's the same holder as the one for their two piece goalie skate!

I get they are the same. The steel will be different though. The goalie steel will be long and flat with "toe picks" on the end. The player skater is a rounded shape. 

At this point, the cowling has been minimized to a blade holder. So I don't understand why it's a concern if 1 holder works for both steels? 

Obviously just my opinion,  but if you want a 2 piece and the skate functions properly... just feels like a mental hurdle more than a functional issue 

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15 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

I get they are the same. The steel will be different though. The goalie steel will be long and flat with "toe picks" on the end. The player skater is a rounded shape. 

At this point, the cowling has been minimized to a blade holder. So I don't understand why it's a concern if 1 holder works for both steels? 

Obviously just my opinion,  but if you want a 2 piece and the skate functions properly... just feels like a mental hurdle more than a functional issue 

TGN well summarized all I can say is that I understand it works however visually it doesn't look right! I also wonder about the height of this holder vs a IS skate I believe it is higher.  The reason I bring that up is that my son tried Extreme Step blades 2 summers ago and he did not like the feeling if this holder is higher than a typical goalie skate that would be a concern. 

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6 minutes ago, Big2 said:

TGN well summarized all I can say is that I understand it works however visually it doesn't look right! I also wonder about the height of this holder vs a IS skate I believe it is higher.  The reason I bring that up is that my son tried Extreme Step blades 2 summers ago and he did not like the feeling if this holder is higher than a typical goalie skate that would be a concern. 

Okay, thanks 

That I completely get! 

Ive never tried them, but the really tall steel freaks me out

Upgraded steel is on the the "to try" list 

 

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So, one of the reasons to buy a custom Bauer or CCM skate for the added price over VH/True is that you get a truly custom skate. You have a ridiculous amount of options you can do to the skates that aren't available VH. You want a 1X liner on a Nexus skate? Bauer will do that.

The other thing is that VH isn't a true custom. Watch their manufacturing videos. They take the tracing of your feet and match it up to a pre-existing mold. According to VH you don't need Superfeet as the skate are "moulded" to your feet, but take a look at the insole and you can tell the bottom isn't built to your foot.

The thing that VH does really well is having a very mouldable material that makes the boot wrap on top of your foot, people sometimes have fit issues and that is where VH will make changes to the areas of issue and customize that portion.

I'm curious to see if VH actually adds or removes material near the eyelits to fit a foot based on pictures. So far no-one has been able to answer that for me.

VH said they are working on a new goalie specific boot which will have a reinforced toe cap... But didn't say a date. Looks like I'll be risking the standard player boot protection for my goalie skate...

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On 7/29/2017 at 8:50 AM, Big2 said:

TGN don't forget we are buying something sight unseen that is a major concern when you are dropping this kind of dough 

That I get! I've yet to wear the skate, but I've seen them. As described, they have an artisan look compared to a mass manufactured CCM or Bauer 

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On 7/31/2017 at 11:12 AM, Hills said:

So, one of the reasons to buy a custom Bauer or CCM skate for the added price over VH/True is that you get a truly custom skate. You have a ridiculous amount of options you can do to the skates that aren't available VH. You want a 1X liner on a Nexus skate? Bauer will do that.

The other thing is that VH isn't a true custom. Watch their manufacturing videos. They take the tracing of your feet and match it up to a pre-existing mold. According to VH you don't need Superfeet as the skate are "moulded" to your feet, but take a look at the insole and you can tell the bottom isn't built to your foot.

The thing that VH does really well is having a very mouldable material that makes the boot wrap on top of your foot, people sometimes have fit issues and that is where VH will make changes to the areas of issue and customize that portion.

I'm curious to see if VH actually adds or removes material near the eyelits to fit a foot based on pictures. So far no-one has been able to answer that for me.

VH said they are working on a new goalie specific boot which will have a reinforced toe cap... But didn't say a date. Looks like I'll be risking the standard player boot protection for my goalie skate...

If someone wants to do a true custom insole, the technology is readily available and affordable. 

Take the VH app or Bauer Scanning machine... add Sols and get a truely custom fit 

http://www.sols.com/

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