Custom Skate Radius

[BadAngle41]

The use of a radius (or a combination of radii) has always made total sense to me on a player's skate. Aids in either gliding or agility... pitch the player more on the toes or heels... all that stuff. Essentially it should compliment the player's skating style and what they want to achieve. But when it comes to a goal skate... I have always kept mine the stock "flat." It wasn't an overly conscious decision... more of habit. Played for years with them like that and adjusted hollows of course but that was the extent of it. 

Relatively recently however, after a series of poor sharpenings that were completely uneven I found myself feeling off balance. My solution was two fold. First... buy some new steels... Second... start doing mail order sharpenings. With that.. the more I looked... the more I was curious about getting a good radius put on all my steels which was the same and have them blade matched so each pair (L&R) were identical to one another and the radius would be the same across all my sets of steel. At first... my thought was just clean up the stamped stock radius and get a 30' on all... I mean I've played with "flat" for years and its been fine. But curious as to what someone who does this for a living might say... I reached out to the guys at NoIcingSports.com to get their opinion. 

Based on my age... weight... level of play... and feel for my current "radius"...

"For radius, I strongly recommend the combination radius.  It really outperforms single radius goalie profiles.  Like a player combo it has two radius on the runner, a shorter one in the front of the skate for responsive and tight, quick turning, and pivots and a larger one in the rear of the skate for balance and blade on the ice for powerful pushes, slide stops and recoveries. For you, our 20'/32' combination will work very well for you. I have more than 1000 goalies on this radius, none haven't loved it.  I use it myself. I also recommend a medium forward pitch to get you off your heels, to give you a deeper knee bend for a lower crouch, easier pivots, better balance, and quicker 5-hole closure.  I think you'll like this combo profile way more than the stock 30’ neutral radius you have on the Bauers now." - Bob @NoIcingSports

So I packaged up a set of Bauer LS5G today and sent them off. The radius, sharpening (1/2"), and blade matching ran me $55 plus another $7 for the return shipping. If I like it I'll send the TIN and DLC coated Tydans for the same treatment. Then I have a good rotation of steels which (aside from steel height based on prior sharpenings) will all be the same. If I don't like it... keep working with Bob until we find it.

Will it help or will I continue to suck and blame my steels?

I'll post updates as to how the project progresses... minor adjustments to radius or pitch until I dial it in just right. I'll also try and share whatever I learn during the process... the actual mechanics of it etc. Of course any comments from personal experience or questions from radius virgins like myself are welcome... 

[Teezle]

I got the exact same recommendation paragraph when I reached out to them. Their site is not great in terms of navigation/clarity, so I'd have to do what you did and buy steel separately to send to them if I wanted to use them. I've been considering it, but I haven't had any issues with my LHS sharpening (and they even do my weird 17/32" cut), so it didn't seem worth the hassle.

[BadAngle41]

17 minutes ago, Teezle said:

I got the exact same recommendation paragraph when I reached out to them. Their site is not great in terms of navigation/clarity, so I'd have to do what you did and buy steel separately to send to them if I wanted to use them. I've been considering it, but I haven't had any issues with my LHS sharpening (and they even do my weird 17/32" cut), so it didn't seem worth the hassle.

I figured the response was a canned one... but more interested in how you came to your 17/32. Was that a trial and error for you? If so, can you help describe what you felt from the initial change and what makes 17/32 just right for you?

As for the hassle piece... you nailed it. When you LHS does fine sending out is a hassle. For those in my situation... the hassle is having the LHS screwing up your skates. 

[bunnyman666]

You won’t need to re-profile too much if a machine sharpener sharpens your skates, and I believe Bob uses a Prosharp (almost 100% positive he does). Prosharp maintains Prosharp profiles. 

Consistency will be the best benefit of going this way.

[coopaloop1234]

So aside from the cost being mostly due to the custom radius of the steel, how much would sending it off to him for a general sharpening cost? (not including shipping fees)

[Teezle]

1 hour ago, BadAngle41 said:

I figured the response was a canned one... but more interested in how you came to your 17/32. Was that a trial and error for you? If so, can you help describe what you felt from the initial change and what makes 17/32 just right for you?

As for the hassle piece... you nailed it. When you LHS does fine sending out is a hassle. For those in my situation... the hassle is having the LHS screwing up your skates. 

A bit of trial and error, and some recommendation from a couple goalie coaches at an all-ages camp last week. Here is how I arrived at 17/32:

Initially was using Graf G9035 skates, completely stock. I wore these very sharp at 3/8, primarily because their stock steel is super soft, and anything higher felt like I was slipping all over the place. It also helped get a better grip for butterfly pushes and slides that the large Graf cowling made more difficult.

This April, I got a pair of True 2-piece skates - fully custom. These are the first no-cowling skates that I've ever used, and I heard from various sources that you should go less sharp in them because of how much more connected to the ice you feel. At first I went to 7/16, but that was still too sharp. Then I went to 15/32, and even though I felt decent with that cut, the goalie coaches at camp noticed that I was stuttering on my shuffles a lot (I guess it was just something I'd gotten used to and so never noticed anymore). They recommended I go up even further; this past Saturday I got them cut at 17/32 and everything felt perfect - no more stuttering on the shuffles and still plenty of grip to move around while down. The combination of those two things seems to be the sweet spot.

I think everyone is slightly different depending on your skates and your build - I'm ~165 lbs, so if you're heavier you may want an even shallower cut in the new no-cowling/one-piece style skates. A goalie I play with regularly has the True 1-piece skates, is ~220 lbs, and gets his cut at 3/4.

[BadAngle41]

13 hours ago, Teezle said:

A bit of trial and error, and some recommendation from a couple goalie coaches at an all-ages camp last week. Here is how I arrived at 17/32:

Initially was using Graf G9035 skates, completely stock. I wore these very sharp at 3/8, primarily because their stock steel is super soft, and anything higher felt like I was slipping all over the place. It also helped get a better grip for butterfly pushes and slides that the large Graf cowling made more difficult.

This April, I got a pair of True 2-piece skates - fully custom. These are the first no-cowling skates that I've ever used, and I heard from various sources that you should go less sharp in them because of how much more connected to the ice you feel. At first I went to 7/16, but that was still too sharp. Then I went to 15/32, and even though I felt decent with that cut, the goalie coaches at camp noticed that I was stuttering on my shuffles a lot (I guess it was just something I'd gotten used to and so never noticed anymore). They recommended I go up even further; this past Saturday I got them cut at 17/32 and everything felt perfect - no more stuttering on the shuffles and still plenty of grip to move around while down. The combination of those two things seems to be the sweet spot.

I think everyone is slightly different depending on your skates and your build - I'm ~165 lbs, so if you're heavier you may want an even shallower cut in the new no-cowling/one-piece style skates. A goalie I play with regularly has the True 1-piece skates, is ~220 lbs, and gets his cut at 3/4.

Ah... you're talking about HOLLOW if I'm reading correctly... a 17/32" HOLLOW. I get a 1/2" on mine... but this topic is more focused on radius as a PROFILE. Note the difference in 17/32" and 20'/32'... the latter using a ' designation referring to feet not inches. So a 20'/32' is a combination radius being put on the steel which means I will be removing the stock Bauer 30' radius and have the front half(ish) portion of the steel w/ a 20' radius while the remainder will be done at a 32' radius. I will also be pitched forward slightly compared to stock.

[Teezle]

45 minutes ago, BadAngle41 said:

Ah... you're talking about HOLLOW if I'm reading correctly... a 17/32" HOLLOW. I get a 1/2" on mine... but this topic is more focused on radius as a PROFILE. Note the difference in 17/32" and 20'/32'... the latter using a ' designation referring to feet not inches. So a 20'/32' is a combination radius being put on the steel which means I will be removing the stock Bauer 30' radius and have the front half(ish) portion of the steel w/ a 20' radius while the remainder will be done at a 32' radius. I will also be pitched forward slightly compared to stock.

Yes - I did have the " designation in my initial reply  but it's still not your standard cut, so I'm pleased that my LHS will do it.

Several players (not goalies) on my team last season tried various combination radius profiles on their skates and none of them liked it. They all went back to their previous steel, so take that for what you will. A 20/32 combination will probably take less time to get used to than 17/32 just because it's closer overall to the regular 28 or 30 foot radius that is stock.

Another thing to consider is your skates - do they already pitch you forward a bit? You may not want as much of a forward pitch on your steel if your heel is already lifted like on the Bauer/True 2-piece/CCM FT2 skates because it might put you "too forward" feeling. If your skate boot has a more neutral profile, then maybe a forward pitch would help, but I feel like the differences are probably pretty minor. Where do you feel your weight currently is when you're in your stance?

[Puckstopper]

I've tried both the 20/32 and the 17/32 from NoIcing over the years and really like the 20/32 combo radius with a mild forward pitch.  There is a noticeable improvement in agility over stock with either of these radii and no loss in movement while down.  My Tydan steel came with a Goalie SAM profile and I definately have not liked it as much.  It will be heading to NoIcing on Friday to get changed over to the 20/32 combo.

[BadAngle41]

3 hours ago, Teezle said:

Yes - I did have the " designation in my initial reply  but it's still not your standard cut, so I'm pleased that my LHS will do it.

Several players (not goalies) on my team last season tried various combination radius profiles on their skates and none of them liked it. They all went back to their previous steel, so take that for what you will. A 20/32 combination will probably take less time to get used to than 17/32 just because it's closer overall to the regular 28 or 30 foot radius that is stock.

Another thing to consider is your skates - do they already pitch you forward a bit? You may not want as much of a forward pitch on your steel if your heel is already lifted like on the Bauer/True 2-piece/CCM FT2 skates because it might put you "too forward" feeling. If your skate boot has a more neutral profile, then maybe a forward pitch would help, but I feel like the differences are probably pretty minor. Where do you feel your weight currently is when you're in your stance?

Totally agree on the pitch I'm getting from the boot/holder already. Which is why I'm fortunate to have 3 sets of steels right now so I can use one as the guinea pig for this whole thing. Right now I feel like I'm fighting my skates a little bit. I watch to pitch forward but they're almost pushing me back on my heels. I was in Grafs w/ Cobra holder... swapped it to Vertexx.. then did S190s... and now in 2X Pro. So i've comfortably made the transition.. but just as of late felt sorta off. Quick movements on my toes feel like i have too much steel involved etc.

3 hours ago, Puckstopper said:

I've tried both the 20/32 and the 17/32 from NoIcing over the years and really like the 20/32 combo radius with a mild forward pitch.  There is a noticeable improvement in agility over stock with either of these radii and no loss in movement while down.  My Tydan steel came with a Goalie SAM profile and I definately have not liked it as much.  It will be heading to NoIcing on Friday to get changed over to the 20/32 combo.

This is exactly what I'm hoping to find with the 20'/32'. My only concern is will I get it and immediately love and not want to change? Or (more likely) think it's great... but I wonder if... and get try a couple other profiles done to really know for sure what I like. As I mentioned to above in my reply to @Teezle... I am looking for that agility improvement.

[BadAngle41]

UPDATE: I sent my LS5G steels off to NoIcingSports on Wednesday last week... had them back to me the following Monday. Quick and easy. First skate with them will be this evening. Eyeballing them compared to my TIN coated Tydans I could notice a slight difference on the front half where the 20' radius was applied. I'll be particularly interested in the Medium Pitch Forward. 

As I said before... even if I do like this... I'll be tempted to at least try the 17'/32' and/or adjust the pitch to dial everything in and not wonder what could be. 

[BadAngle41]

On 7/31/2019 at 6:24 PM, coopaloop1234 said:

So aside from the cost being mostly due to the custom radius of the steel, how much would sending it off to him for a general sharpening cost? (not including shipping fees)

$6.75 for a Hollow Sharpening... $7.75 for a FBV. Shipping for me was ~$7 each way... so all in certainly more expensive than a LHS but as @bunnyman666 pointed out... sticking to their process also means a good consistent sharpening which maintains the profile.

[bunnyman666]

19 minutes ago, BadAngle41 said:

$6.75 for a Hollow Sharpening... $7.75 for a FBV. Shipping for me was ~$7 each way... so all in certainly more expensive than a LHS but as @bunnyman666 pointed out... sticking to their process also means a good consistent sharpening which maintains the profile.

My next suggestion is to get spare steel done up the same way and rotate it so you have consistent steel.

[BadAngle41]

First Skate on 20/32

Radius Notes: When pivoting I no longer sensed that I was fighting the front half of my steel... far less resistance on those quick turns. What I found most surprising though was how... given the pitch and combo radius... I felt I had significantly better hinge control when in RVH. The outer leg seemed to glide in a nice arc almost effortlessly... like it wanted to do exactly that.

Hollow Notes: At first the 1/2" I found to work best for me on 3mm steel felt shallow compared to how I've felt a 1/2" before. But After a few laps... some stretching... and some warm up shots... all was forgotten. During game play I didn't give this hollow a second thought. I could potentially go to say 7/16" on good ice... but for the current ice conditions in my area right now... 1/2" will continue to do the job.

Blade Matching Notes: I'm not sure how much the blade matching helped... but I think it's safe to say it certainly doesn't hurt and I'd plan on doing it to all my sets of steels when they're sent in for the radius.

Overall: The smaller radius in the front along with the medium pitch forward felt very much as described by Bob...

"Like a player combo it has two radius on the runner, a shorter one in the front of the skate for responsive and tight, quick turning, and pivots and a larger one in the rear of the skate for balance and blade on the ice for powerful pushes, slide stops and recoveries."

I'll have a few more skates I'd like to use them in... and it has made me VERY curious as to how much I'd like the 17/32 @Teezle utilizes. Almost certainly going to be sending these LS5Gs back for the even smaller radius up front. Once I get what I want dialed in... both sets of Tydans will be sent for the final treatment. (Picture to be posted later today for reference on the 20/32.)

[SaveByRichter35]

Shit thank you for reminding me I need to have my skates sharpened for my playoff game tomorrow night and possible championship game Saturday.